User talk:FourTildes/Archive 3

Thoughts
I can see why your article was prodded; unfortunately it doesn't really work on its own. My thoughts are, I'm beginning to think that our minimum of 3 basho for an individual article is too restrictive. Why not just create articles for Koryu, Kitataiki and Hakuba? I know you're not overkeen on stubs, but what you've already written is enough for a start for each of them in my opinion. And two of them even have photos. If I'm reading WP:ATHLETE right, anybody who competes in a fully professional league is notable, and that covers not just makuuchi but juryo as well. Two basho in makuuchi ought to be enough. I would rather do that than expand the active list like that, personally. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That was my thinking too - they don't have to have tourney tables yet. In fact, we don't even have to put the career record in the infobox if we don't want to - then they wouldn't need any regular updating at all.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:05, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I like what you've done with Damanazura - I don't know why we didn't think of that before. Simple but good. Thanks for all your new pics and doing those new articles. You have been busy! I take it you're still on vacation?:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not so keen on skipping years, actually - I can't quite say why, just not sure about it. I'd prefer it if we held off doing it on any more articles for now. Yes, back home now-a good break but it's nice to back in our own place again.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Baruto
It was a big win, particularly how he's never been able to defeat a yokozuna before. Thanks for the new images by the way - you may be seeing an article on Gojoro before too long now:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:25, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Yanagawa
Yeah, I came across his photo a while back but decided not to write an article as he's basically just a makushita veteran, although he has spent 16 basho in juryo and was an amateur champion. A close examination of the picture tells me that you're right, it's clearly photoshopped... it says the date is May but that's not the Kokugikan dohyo, plus it just looks bizarre:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Gojoro
Hi, you may have noticed that I've begun an article on Gojoro. I'm trying to expand it but I wondered if I could ask your help with something. His Japanese bio mentions that in May 2005 he lost by default two days in a row, and that's an interesting fact I'd like to include, but web translation software isn't helping me to unravel the exact reasons how that happened. Could you possibly translate it for me? And thanks for the images, as always.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:20, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How extraordinary - that's definitely going in! Thanks for that. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:38, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Re:Gobsmacked!
Heh, didn't even realise that was British only:) You were lucky with Tamarikido - literally the last chance to get a picture of him on the dohyo. It did seem very sudden - there's rumours on the forums that he was lent on to retire so he could vote against Takanohana in the upcoming oyakata elections!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Updates
Doing it now:) By the way someone on Sumo Forum said that Kitazakura has retired, but I haven't heard it anywhere else so I won't chnage his page just yet.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 03:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Your edit to List of active sumo wrestlers
... was how I heard the news. Just got in from work, checked my watchlist and... jaw dropped. Didn't expect that one. Guess I'll have to watch the Asashoryu article closely for the next few hours.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I was shocked that he went in this way. There are reports coming out that he was heavily leaned on by the YDC to quit, which kind of puts a different slant on things - I'll have to see what I can add about that. But yeah, it's going to be duller both during tournaments and between them. I will miss him.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Apologies
Oops, FourTildes, you're totally right. I screwed up and mixed you two up. Please accept my deepest apologies. The one doing vandalism was the other guy (I do think that's vandalism) --89.180.209.54 (talk) 02:57, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Updates II
No worries - I'm in the process for applying for jobs myself at the moment. I should get the rest of them done today or tomorrow. I like your solution to the tourney box problem - at least with the rank and score removed it's pretty clear he's not on the banzuke. I was actually hoping he would be as that would have solved it for us:) I'm sure they scratched him off just out of spite - in any other circumstance he would have been left on.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

New article
Hey there. That's a good idea for an article - I can't think of anywhere else online that lists the juryo champions like that. It's very interesting to me that nearly all the rikishi you've put so far have an article - it seems very rare that someone who is not either a former or future makuuchi actually takes the juryo yusho. I agree the (1)s are unnecessary as it's so common to win just the one. I would keep the bold for zensho though, just for consistency with List of sumo tournament winners (which I guess will have to be renamed to List of sumo top division tournament winners now that there's going to be the two lists?).

I really only have access to the bouts that go up on You Tube (and don't get pulled for copyright violation) so I haven't seen too many this time round. (Haven't come across Kaio's win no. 1000 yet, sadly). Thanks for the stat updates - I enjoyed just taking care of updating the career sections with text, which is more fun to me to be honest! Oh and thanks for the Kotonowaka pic too. Slowly but surely we're getting retired rikishi images which is great.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:07, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings about whether to include the number of wins, but at a push I would say I kind of prefer the simpler look without. But it's up to you. Looking at the list I was struck by the names that aren't on it - no Asashoryu, Takanohana or Akebono! Very interesting reading.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I know what you mean about the red links, but I kind of find it interesting to find out about some of these lesser known rikishi. Plus there are still a few blue links now and again.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:07, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Updates III
Thanks for the banzuke updates. I've been busy at work too so haven't had much computer time in the last few days. Somewhat annoyed that I've fallen behind with the updates to 2010 in sumo - will try to get to that today.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Haku and Tai records
No problem at all with your additions. I did originally considering doing just the "modern era" (Showa onwards, I guess), which would have allowed me to put in Asa's 35 and Kitanoumi's 32 as well, but I decided that Tanikaze, Umegatani and Tachiyama deserved recognition, even though things were rather different in those days with so many draws and "no decisions" about which you could argue means their wins weren't strictly consecutive.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

wp:sumo
I don't think it's his personal website - as I understand it, toolserver.org is part of Wikimedia and it's used to generate those reports like the top ten pages you've edited and how many articles you've created and so on (don't know if you've ever looked at them but you can access them from the "my contributions" page). I agree though that it is isn't really of much use for a wikiproject as small as ours. I have every single page with a WP:SUMO banner on my watchlist as far as I know. I can see it being handy for larger projects though - we have something similar at WP:CHESS..--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's possible to do it automatically, no: unless I missed something in WP:WATCHLIST.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:37, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Tochinonada 2008.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Tochinonada 2008.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk  05:42, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:the gamut
Yeah, the changes that needed to be made for that article were far too daunting for me to attempt! Nine promotions to makuuchi is the most ever, apparently. Thanks for taking care of that, and the other updates.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:duration
Sorry for not replying earlier. It's interesting information, but I think it might be better to do years, months and days rather than weeks, which looks a little bit odd to me. Would that be possible? On the subject of that particular table, it's been pointed out on the Sumo Forum here that Hakuho is in fact second for consecutive wins, because those three guys beteewn him and Futabayama had draws and absences in the middle of their winning runs. I know we have that in a footnote but it's still bugging me. I was thinking of re-titling it "Longest undefeated run" or even changing it to two tables; one as it is now and one just for wins, which would have Futabayama first, Hakuho second and Chiyoonfuji third and also leave room to put Asashoryu and maybe Takanohana and Kitanoumi in too. What do you think? Overkill maybe?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts I think I might just leave it alone - partly because Hakuho will probably move up to second in the table before too long anyway if he keeps on winning:) Like the Sokokurai article. I had no idea that juryo wrestler from the 70s wasn't really Chinese - very interesting. Been watching the English NHK World daily reports on You Tube - you only get a couple of bouts but it's a nice summary of the action.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, the table as it is now is backed up by that monument at the Tomioka Hachiman Shrine that Morio has just added an image of. Feeling better about it now:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 10:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:How again?
You put in "KYUJO", which creates a grey box saying "sat out due to injury." The only drawback is that it doesn't give the rank they were at.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 10:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is. It doesn't really matter for yokozuna or ozeki but for everyone else whose rank constantly changes it's annoying to have that bit of info missing. Maybe we should just put in 0-0-15 instead.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 10:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:Gaga!
Yeah, I knocked that one out the other day as I felt he was overdue for an article. Could do with a bit more detail though. Thanks for uploading those new pics - some nice ones there.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:11, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:toriki
My first memories of him are ten years earlier when he made his makuuchi debut in the Aki '90 basho. Channel 4 in the UK covered it. He got eleven wins and the fighting spirit prize. They used to call him "Big Heart." Hope he does well in his new life. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 10:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:updates
Yeah, I still think in stones rather than pounds and quite a lot of other Brits do too, plus it was already in some articles so I thought it wouldn't hurt to do the rest. I hope you do make it to Fukuoka. I just have a sneaking feeling that Hakuho will be upset at some point.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:57, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Kisenosato is always a dangerous opponent and Day 2 was pretty early in the basho to face him- they could have given Hakuho an easier start if they'd wished I think. So 63 it is. I agree it's a bit annoying that he couldn't get past that centuries-old-draws-included run of Tanikaze, but a small part of me is glad in a way that Futabayama's record still stands.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hope you like them. Both passed the three makuuchi tournament threshold and I felt like writing some new articles. There's also Wakakoyu who will be back in makuuchi next time but I think I'll wait on him. By the way I leapt in to update Kaio as I was so pleased to be able to put in a 12-3 score but I'm going offline now so you can make the rest of your updates uninterrupted:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry I denied you there on Kaio. I'm now positive he'll break both the career wins and makuuchi appearances records, and Chiyotaikai's most ozeki tournaments record for good measure.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:15, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Discussion on project page
Just in case you haven't seen it yet, there's a discussion here about what date we should put for promotion to yokozuna and ozeki.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:48, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Re:Wakakoyu
Nice job. His highest rank is obviously Maegashira 8; I can't imagine why the Japanese wiki article wouldn't list that. I have no problem with having the juryo scores included, but I would like them in grey to distinguish them from the makuuchi scores, as they do on the ja wiki. For some reason this doesn't work here - look at Towanoyama where all divisions have the same colour background. I guess the template will need tweaking.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Re: Aminishiki
Looks OK to me. What's wrong? Maybe it's browser thing (I use Firefox). --Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, right -- I was a bit slow on the uptake there, sorry! Looks good. Of course it will take a while to do it for everyone, but I'll do some when I have the time and inclination:) I would go with "Makuuchi and Juryo record" for the section heading myself.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * You know that debate is in Wikipedia's lamest edit wars? I feel like banging my head against the screen whenever it rears its ugly head, which is all too frequently. Anyway, yes after the initial rush of reporting I haven't felt like adding too much more on this latest scandal - maybe once this investigation comes up with some answers I'll get back into it. The "suspended" code is really meant for individual rikishi who are barred from entering the tournament, so I'm not sure it's applicable for a cancelled tournament. We could just leave it blank; which I think creates an "X" in the field - I think we used to do that for the historical rikishi when there were fewer than six tournaments. I'm wondering about the March banzuke - is it even going to be released? Or held over till May? Not sure about that one.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well we have the answer to that last question - I've posted my thoughts on it at the project page. I did try and add a "basho cancelled" box to the basho template, but couldn't get it to work properly - you can see my attempt if you look at the edit history of Aminshiki, who like you I chose to experiment on!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:37, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi
Thanks for your help with the mass retirement updates, particularly the past wrestlers list. Nice to see you back:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:55, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

May "banzuke"
I've been waiting impatiently for them to finally release the un-banzuke so I leapt in as soon as I saw it. I was surprised to discover that with the exception of Sokokurai and Hoshikaze who were dismissed and therefore rubbed out, all the "retired" rikishi are actually on the banzuke. Guess I'll have to go back and fill in the ranks on all those red retired boxes that we left blank... Hope you get to see some lve sumo; it's been so long! I'm going to try and watch on the live internet feed, if I can work out what the time difference is:)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Had a new guy helping out too, which is always welcome!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 10:55, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Should have left you something to do I know, but I had some time on my hands on Monday so ended up doing it all! I think we need an article on Kaisei after his performance last time out, don't you?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your improvements to the Kaisei article - I hadn't even noticed its existence till you mentioned it. That image wouldn't have lasted as you can't just lift things from websites these days, when it's living people anyway. Incidentally the guy who prodded it for deletion is a regular over on the chess Wikiproject - I never thought my two main areas of Wiki editing would ever cross paths like that:) As for Kaio I'm going to be taking a good look at his article now he's gone and trying to get it to the standard he deserves - about time we had another GA I think.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Sep Banzuke
You know I didn't even notice the banzuke had come out. Had Hurricane Tropical Storm Irene on my mind! Thanks for bringing that to my attention; I'll check it out and probably do a few updates. Excited about how Takanoyama will do in makuuchi.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:23, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I only just remembered Takarafuji. We have a few makuuchi men without articles now, I notice. NJ suffered really not so much from the storm as the flooding that came afterwards. Our apartment emerged unscathed but there are so many roads closed I haven't been able to get to work.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Hi - just wondered what your thoughts were on the win/loss records in infoboxes. More trouble than they're worth? An anon IP had helpfully done the September updates but I had to go through almost all of them again because he/she had updated the tourney tables but not the infoboxes.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:26, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, no one else seems to be around at the moment. There must be more than two people interested in this kind of stuff... right?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: new rikishi
Ha ha, my plan worked:) I've been meaning to do some more writing but hadn't got round to it - thanks. Tochinowaka was the most deserving, I agree. I'll check out your article.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's fine to lift material from other language wikis as everything is free to reproduce, although it should be independently sourced as well of course. Nice job! I love the bit about the yobidashi having to go "Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" The first Tochinowaka was one of my favourite wrestlers when I were a lad so it's good to see his protégé doing well. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Just checked out your Takayasu article and add a fighting style section (not that there's too much to go on just yet). Hope you can get a photo of him. I hope he's not too badly affected by his stablemaster's sudden death. Of course the conspiracy theories are coming out online because of the recent troubles Naruto has had with alleged mistreatment of his rikishi. Do they go in for much of that kind of talk in Japan?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * He was a great wrestler, becoming yokozuna despite all his problems with diabetes, and he was a regular nemesis of Chiyonofuji. A great coach too. Sadly people aren't going to focus on that right now.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Re:went a little haywire
Wow, I really did set you going, didn't I? It is high time we expanded the tourney tables, at least for the most high profile rikishi. As I've said before I think keeping the grey is important, to distinguish from makuuchi, so I agree it would look wrong to use the green boxes for lower division yusho as the Spaniards have done:) I guess using "champion" is fine; the only other alternative really would be "yusho" but as we're already using "P" for "playoff" we should try to avoid mixing Japanese and English terms.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:46, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Re:this and that
Good idea to do articles on Aoiyama and Myogiryu - they're definitely the two most promising of the many recent makuuchi debutants. I know what you mean about the "white guys" - Kokkai and Aran look awful right now, and Kotooshu has been mediocre for so long now I just wonder how much longer he'll be able to maintain his ozeki rank. It's better for sumo now we have Kise and Giku up there I think. Glad you got to see the basho, and thanks for the Koboyama pic - did you get any others?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:36, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice work on Daido - I've already added the fighting style section. There's not a great deal to say a lot of the time, but I do like to know which ones are yotsu and which ones are oshi.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I joined Wikipedia in November 2006, and I remember being shocked that neither Hokutoumi, Onokuni, or Asahifuji had articles - three yokozuna I remember from the UK 80s TV coverage. Those were the first three articles that I wrote, although others went on to improve them quite a bit. I remember that explosion of article writing and it was great fun. Who was to know how many of those guys wouldn't last beyond the scandals of the last couple of years. Such a waste of a career for Wakanoho - out at the age of 20!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:19, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You won't get any complaints from me about more sumo articles! I don't think Shohozan will be a one basho wonder anyway. Just curious as to what sources you use - is it mainly the Japanese wikipedia, or is it press articles etc? I have to go on the Mainichi Daily News, the Japan Times, the Sumo Reference database and Sumo Forum, and that's about it.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your improvements. I was pressed for time so it wasn't much more than a stub when I left it. Yes, we are kind of running out now. I doubt very much that Tsurugidake will return to makuuchi at his age, and Takarafuji was unconvincing once again. Still, we have Yoshiazuma returning next time, and Tenkaiho and Chiyonokuni look promising too - I bet they already have Japanese articles!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the banzuke updates. I just added updates to the intros and career sections of a few articles.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Re:match-fixing article
Nice job! Unfortunately I haven't had time to add anything to it yet but I do have a book that gives some detail on the past attitudes of the JSA towards yaocho - apparently there was talk of a crackdown when Futabayama was rijicho - which I will try to dig out.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Sakumayama
Nice article - I see you're a big fan of his from the thread on the Sumo Forum. I hope he can continue this form into the sekitori ranks and thst we'll see him in makuuchi in a few basho. Thanks for the great pics of Hakuho too.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: those glossary moves

 * It's something that should be discussed in an RfC at WT:MOSGLOSS (or where ever). I've reverted as much of Liefting's "do everything my way" renames as possible to level the playing field again. His results often made no sense and ended up with extremely misleading article names.  — SMcCandlish    Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿ ¤ þ  Contrib.  22:25, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Re:Nada
Nada's info at List of sumo record holders is up to date. Fusensho are counted in his totals, but fusenpai are not, so his makuuchi bouts total of 1182 is 556 wins plus 628 losses minus the two fusenpai he had - if you look on Sumo Reference it says 556-628-31/1182. I don't know if this is just Sumo Reference's rule or if the JSA follow it too in their official records, but I think it's logical - if you're not even in the stadium then I don't think it should count as an "appearance", but to win by default you are required to turn up, get on the dohyo and accept the prize (if you don't then it's a double fusenpai!) so those should be counted.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I saw that. I don't know what it is about Wikipedia glossaries but I remember it was nominated for deletion a while back by someone who thought that all glossaries should be got rid of because "Wikipedia is not a dictionary"! There's a few people with agendas round here.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Re:I was itching
Funnily enough after making that update I was looking at the list myself and seeing who could be next, and I felt similarly uninspired. I suppose Sadanofuji, with two kachikoshi followed by a 6–9 will probably stick around, but I'd be hard pressed to come up with much to write about, other than that wonderful piece of Banzuke Topics trivia that he's the first wrestler with five Japanese characters in his name to be ranked in makuuchi since Chiyonofuji!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:39, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

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