User talk:Francish7/Archive 1

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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2010
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Location grids
Hi, I noticed you are adding location grids to a few articles, some of which are difficult to follow. May I suggest that you use the standard Geographic location or NSEW for this purpose, there is a smaller version Geographic Location 2 if you prefer. May be you could get those changed, if they are not suitable for your purpose, or have a look in Category:Geography and place templates as there may be something more suitable. Keith D (talk) 13:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2010
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2010
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Mary Magdalene
Please read WP:NOR and WP:VERIFY. I've removed this as it looks like a personal statement, perhaps based on your reading, but it doesn't belong in the article unless it can be well sourced. In fact, I don't think this is the place for such a debate. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 11:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - December 2010
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - January 2011
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Guisborough
Hi there Francish7, hope you're well. Over the weekend I had a little go at Guisborough (twinning) and Gisborough Priory (the Black Monk) and I've left comments on both Talk pages. Please do have a look if you get the chance.

On the Monk, I must say that (a) I don't believe in that stuff but (b) I know that the stories exist and I feel that this should be documented, and that's my motivation at the article. BUT here's the thing - you could not possibly offer me enough cash, not by the wheelbarrow or even vanload, to sit on that bench (if it is still there) facing N towards PPC with my back to the Priory all night, no looking back, on the designated night! I mean, I'm not superstitious but ... and anyway I think my most probable fate if I were to try that would be to drop dead of a heart attack when some joker with a dark jumper over their head leapt out and went BOO at me for a laugh - I think that would polish me off quite neatly with nary a hint of a supernatural cause! Cheers, DBaK (talk) 11:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Basankusu
This is a courtesy notice to let you know that I have failed Basankusu for Good Article status. You are welcome to renominate the article when you think it is ready.  Arctic   Night  20:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, Arctic! First of all, thank you very much for reviewing my article. I'll cetainly take your comments on board and - time permitting - make the relevant changes so that I can renominate. I've invited quite a few people to join me in writing the page but it has still ended up being 99% by me. Anyway, thanks again - hope to have a better outcome in a few months. Best Wishes Francis Hannaway Francis Hannaway 12:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - February 2011
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - March 2011
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - April 2011
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Gisborough Priory
Sorry, and thanks! Other stresses were talking, and should not have been. Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2011
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York meetup
Hi Francish7. Just to let you know there is a Wikimedia meetup being planned in York for Tuesday. —Tom Morris (talk) 15:22, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2011
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - July 2011
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Gisborough Priory
I do apologise - I think I misread the latter of the two sentences that I removed, though I still feel that the line about Boulby Potash is a bit irrelevant since it has nothing whatsoever to do with Gisborough Priory. Please bear with me, I'm still working on the article, so there will be some more changes to come. Prioryman (talk) 22:53, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * My intention - maybe clumsily written - was to show a link between the legacy of the dissolution of Gisborough Priory and the present time ... with present day places and people. I admit that they don't show a direct description of the structure of the building or the daily life of the priory, but instead bring it to life in the context of modern England.


 * You have said that "In 1932, Lord Gisborough transferred control of the priory to the Office of Works. It later became the responsibility of the Ministry of Works, then the Department of the Environment and finally English Heritage. " and this seems to be a great jump from the time of Henry VIII to the present time. I think that readers are more interested in historical texts if they can see a link to the present time, but that your jump to 1932 is quite a big one.


 * The paragraph about the alum legacy IS a very tangible one, in that it shows the branch of events which occured because of the closure of the priory. The discovery of alum and England's success in trade were directly related. The Chaloner family - even though Thomas Chaloner, 2nd Baron Gisborough, and the present Lord Gisborough, Richard Chaloner, 3rd Baron Gisborough, are not directly from the line that was granted the land of the priory, they are direcly related to the alum legacy of the dissolution of Gisborough Priory. So too, is the establishment of the Potash mine at Boulby, in that the minerals that were first used to fix dyes in wool are now used for other uses.


 * So, in summary, it is to link the events of the dissolution to the present that I have included this information.


 * Best wishes Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 09:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Francis, thanks for your reply. You have a good point about the jump from the dissolution to 1932. I've added some more material that should fill this gap. I agree that the alum legacy is a point that's worth noting but it is a bit tangential to the history of the priory (more relevant to the industrial history of Guisborough, which would be worth an article of its own). However, the story about Chaloner is a bit dubious. I've reworked the alum material into the article - I don't think it really needs to have its own section. As for Boulby, I've not found any source linking it to the priory, so I think it would be original research to make that connection. It would certainly be relevant to an article about the local alum industry but not to the priory, as far as I can see. Prioryman (talk) 11:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

August 2011
Hi Francish7. Thank you for your work on patrolling new pages and tagging for speedy deletion. I'm just letting you know that I declined your deletion request for Talk:Dressed Like Wolves, a page that you tagged for speedy deletion, because the criterion you used or the reason you gave does not cover this kind of page. Please take a moment to look at the suggested tasks for patrollers and review the criteria for speedy deletion. Particularly, the section covering non-criteria. Such pages are best tagged with proposed deletion, proposed deletion for biographies of living persons, or sent to the appropriate deletion discussion. Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Additional comment - I had removed this notice as it's a template for use on user talk-pages, rather than talk-pages of articles. I do however see that Reaper Eternal has made necessary adjustments, and everything now appears to be back in order. Happy editing. :) -- WikHead (talk) 22:13, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2011
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Citation templates - note to self
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_templates Francis Hannaway 11:22, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2011
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2011
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Lopiro Lopori
Thanks for pointing that out. Somehow the first (wrong) spelling seemed natural to me. Basankusu is an area of light in a very dark zone of Wikipedia. I have recently been starting articles on DRC topics and keep getting distracted by trying to turn redlinks blue for topics that absolutely should have articles like territories, sizable towns and major rivers. I will try to slow down and make more complete and correctly spelled articles. :~) Aymatth2 (talk) 15:01, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I have never been there. But ignorance of a subject is not a reason to avoid it, as long as there are sources. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:04, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Common names
Why do you want to change common names (of countries) to official ones? It's a long established practice to prefer common names over official or formal names (WP:COMMONNAME, WP:ON). Everyking (talk) 20:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The Democratic Republic of Congo is just establishing itself with that name. The name Congo-Kinshasa is not, in reality, a common name. It is a name that is an echo of history. To write an encyclopedic article we've got to be clear. Because the country was very recently called Zaire, people aren't quite sure where the Democratic Republic of Congo is, or whether it's the same place as the Congo-Kinshasa - how can Congo-Kinshasa be a common name for a country which has just changed from another name? If you scroll down the page a bit on your WP:COMMONNAME page you will see a section about "Precision and disambiguation". It's along these lines that we need to let the readers know which country we're talking about.


 * You probably know a lot about the Republic of Congo and the Democratic Republic of Congo - most readers don't. How long have you known them as Congo-Kinshasa

and Congo-Brazaville? Perhaps in twenty years time you will be able to come back and say that they are common names - but not just yet.


 * Remember that when you talk about "a long established practice" - Wikipedia is only ten years old ... encyclopedias have been written for hundreds of years. Francis Hannaway 20:48, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Image use
Please read these before adding anymore images to articles - Image use policy, Non-free content, thank you...Modernist (talk) 22:36, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2011
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November 2011

 * 1) [[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=|link=]] Your recent editing history at Conservative Party (UK) shows that you are in danger of breaking the three-revert rule, or that you may have already broken it.  An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period.  Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert.  Breaking the three-revert rule often leads to a block.

If you wish to avoid being blocked, instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. You may still be blocked for edit warring even if you do not exceed the technical limit of the three-revert rule if your behavior indicates that you intend to continue to revert repeatedly. NotFromUtrecht (talk) 17:47, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI: Talk:Conservative_Party_(UK). NotFromUtrecht (talk) 20:59, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite right - I should have called them Conservative Future. Whoever they are, they are still associated with the Conservative Party and were involved in Klu-Klux-Klan-like activity. Francis Hannaway 17:40, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - December 2011
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Speedy deletion nomination of Anne-Marie Minhall


A tag has been placed on Anne-Marie Minhall requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you.  DGG ( talk ) 19:08, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
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Well-behaved bots?
Bots are stupid, they only copy what human put on page. You have an interlang to spanish wiki on the de and it version of this article, so bot copy the missing spanish link on the enlighs version of article. Juste remove the spanish interlang on de:St.-Joseph-Gesellschaft vom Hl. Herzen and it:Società di San Giuseppe del Sacro Cuore and all will be ok. Myst (talk) 12:30, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - January 2012
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - February 2012
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Eston railway station
As a local lad, I reckon you might be interested in the article I've written about Eston railway station. I'd be interested in your comments! Prioryman (talk) 20:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - March 2012
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Ichthus: January 2012
 In this issue...

- Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Wikipedia &bull; It is published by WikiProject Christianity For submissions contact the Newsroom &bull; To unsubscribe add yourself to the list here
 * From the Editor
 * What are You doing For Lent?
 * Fun and Exciting Contest Launched
 * Spotlight on WikiProject Catholicism

Mbayi Kafwemb - Congo related article for deletion
Hi Francish7, the Mbayi Kafwemb article has been marked for deletion. The discussion can be found here. I've tried to find reliable sources for this article to stop the deletion from going ahead but I am not having success at present. If I am right, as expressed by another editor, the name may be transcribed in error. After doing some digging, I think the name Mbayi or Mbaye is the title of a king e.g. Maad a Sinig and Maad Saloum among the Serer people. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the subject or the history. Are you? The editors who may have known something about this subject have not contributed since 2007. I'll also post this to Wikipedia project Congo (your fellow members). Best regards.Tamsier (talk) 07:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

You're in the New York Times
Seriously:. Congrats! Khazar2 (talk) 19:43, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Is it real? Francis Hannaway 21:55, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a no-doubter. =) Khazar2 (talk) 22:02, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 12
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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - April 2012
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Freedonia
I see you've since managed to source most of the claims I made in the first revision of Langbaurgh East. The remaining thing is the alternate name of East Cleveland. Due to Wikipedia polluting Google search results - not a problem we had in 2005 - I'm not sure exactly on what basis I made that claim back then. But for example, this is an official government usage of the term to mean the eastern, less urban, part of the borough. Morwen - Talk 17:21, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Dissolution of the Monasteries
I have removed a chunk of the first paragraph which was more or less saying that Henry was right to dissolve the monasteries because they were guzzling up all the dosh:
 * "Although some monastic foundations dated back to Anglo-Saxon England, the overwhelming majority of the 825 religious communities dissolved by Henry VIII owed their existence to the wave of monastic enthusiasm that had swept England and Wales in the 11th and 12th centuries; in consequence of which religious houses in the 16th century controlled appointment to about a third of all parish benefices, and disposed of about half of all ecclesiastical income." Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 18:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the paragraph; with the sources cited. These are simple statements of fact, taken from the Valor Ecclesiasticus and entirely appropriate to the article. TomHennell (talk) 21:21, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Dissolution of the Monasteries
I have removed a chunk of the first paragraph which was more or less saying that Henry was right to dissolve the monasteries because they were guzzling up all the dosh:
 * "Although some monastic foundations dated back to Anglo-Saxon England, the overwhelming majority of the 825 religious communities dissolved by Henry VIII owed their existence to the wave of monastic enthusiasm that had swept England and Wales in the 11th and 12th centuries; in consequence of which religious houses in the 16th century controlled appointment to about a third of all parish benefices, and disposed of about half of all ecclesiastical income." Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 18:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the paragraph; with the sources cited. These are simple statements of fact, taken from the Valor Ecclesiasticus and entirely appropriate to the article. TomHennell (talk) 21:22, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Absolute nonsense. You are quoting a biased article to begin with. The opening paragraph need only state that Henry broke with the main part of the Catholic Church and refused recognition of the Pope in England, Your statement implies that he broke with Rome because of the money consumed by the monasteries - not true, it was a power thang. Therefore, your statement was POV. Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 21:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course these statements about monastic wealth and possessions could be put into one of the later paragraphs; but I think them more pertinent in the lead, as they follow on from the description of what the dissolution did: confiscate monastic assets and make provision for religious persons and monastic dependents. It is very pertinent to know at the outset what the scale of this action was.  Indeed you may note that David Knowles advances the excessive scale of monastic wealth - relative to that of the English Church as whole - as first in his listing of contributory factors leading to the decline of late medieaval monasticism, and hence to the dissolution.  Nor can I understand your categorisation of Dickens work as 'biased'; on the contrary, this remains one of the standard texts on the subject.   Moreover, your alternative suggestions for the content of the lead would appear (to me) to be of questionable relevance, as they confuse the Dissolution with the Henrician Reformation.  Henry would have dissolved monasteries whether or not he had broken with Rome.  Scarisbrick's point that 'a purge of the religious orders was probably regarded as the most obvious task of the new regime', would appear unarguable. Certainly, many of those who opposed the Royal Supremacy, such as Reginald Pole and Thomas More, were nervertheless strong proponents of major action so suppress failing religious houses. TomHennell (talk) 22:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The bias is in the idea that the Valor Ecclesiasticus was used as a tool to support the Dissolution. I accept that the Dissolution may, or would, have happened without a break with Rome, although not on such a scale (a purge is not a dissolution). I also think, though, that there was a strong link with his dislike of the religious orders and his feeling of being manipulated by Rome which itself was being manipulated by other powers - in short he needed to consolidate his own sovereign authority. Having said that I accept your offer to remove the information to a later paragraph. Thank you. Francis Hannaway (talk) Francis Hannaway 22:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Mother's Day
Please, the article cites several books that say very clearly that Mother's Day is a holiday originated in the US, and that Mothering Sunday is unrelated. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But the article also says that it has existed in other countries for centuries. There is a separate article about Mother's Day (U.S.). It is not correct to have Mother's Day in soooooo many countries and then for someone in America to suddenly claim it was their invention. It has existed spontaneously in many countries. It is a day for mothers - that is all. There is no copyright in the day. There is a place for each country to put their own version - let's leave it at that. Francis Hannaway 19:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Biggest Mistake
I think that the biggest mistake editors can make is to think that they are writing for a local audience. Imagine that your article is being read by someone in Flint, Michigan, or Kanazawa, Ishikawa. They don't want to know the latest council election details, the times of the buses or the fact that the local Asda supermarket used to be a Netto supermarket and people preferred it that way. They really don't. Francis Hannaway 13:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
 Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 08:49, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 19
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Your submission at Articles for creation
 Middlesbrough during World War II, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! benzband ( talk ) 10:16, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
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Ampleforth College
Hi, you additions on safeguarding were helpful and useful - they added balance to the section - but overall your edits seem to be somewhat POV. Please have a check at [WP:NPOV] before deleting or spinning those sections of the article which are not necessarily positive. Springnuts (talk) 09:08, 26 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I have reverted the last edit (an IP edit) which more or less leaves things as they were a month ago with the useful addition of the safeguarding stuff, and have started a discussion on the article talk page. Please add your 2p worth there before removing more sourced material.  I am taking a wiki-pause on editing the article and respectfully suggest you may wish to do the same.  Let's not get into an edit war :)

Regards,

Springnuts (talk) 18:45, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 29
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Convert and flip
Hi, convert has a useful parameter "disp=flip" which displays the values in reverse - I think it's useful to keep the original values an editor has input, presumably from a source, and convert those to metric, rather than convert and re-convert as you suggested in the photo caption at Yorkshire and the Humber. Happy Editing! Pam D  10:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Middlesbrough
I do hope the article about Middlesbrough does not shrink too much. It was the home of my 6th gr-grandfather. I read the article periodically looking for the Surname Goss. No response is necessary. Thank you. Respectfully,  Tiyang (talk) 07:55, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your message. I have only removed the over wordiness of the article. Some parts are being sent off to make their own pages ... so, that will actually make the subject of Middlesbrough longer. A lot of trivial information - non-encyclopedic information - has been trimmed, too. All in all the editing I have done has been restrained, but, in my mind, has made a more readable article. Best wishes Francis Hannaway (talk) 08:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Anne-Marie Minhall


The article Anne-Marie Minhall has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable radio presenter.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Elongated shorty (talk) 23:19, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Anne-Marie Minhall for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Anne-Marie Minhall is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Anne-Marie Minhall until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Elongated shorty (talk) 22:52, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Civility
You might try respecting other participants in discussions as opposed to including insulting remarks in your edit summaries. See WP:CIVIL. Kauffner (talk) 00:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ha! This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! The arguments for both proposed changes have been exhausted on several occasions, but you don't take the hint. It's hardly surprising that your whole user page is given over to being a shrine to a paranoid delusion about having a stalker. Whatever! Francis Hannaway (talk) 19:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My experience in, not only editing the pages on the two Congos, but also living and working there, has born me in good stead. These ngrams  outcomes show what I had experienced in the field. Congo-Kinshasa did gain some popularity in the time of uncertainty around the year 2000. Similarly, Congo-Brazzaville had its heyday around the 1970s. The full official titles for both countries now reign supreme in both countries and in my formidable experience, in the streets of Kinshasa and in the villages and towns of the interior, as well as watch TV from Brazzaville, I have found the same.
 * Your status as editor puzzles me somewhat. You don't give any information about your background, your whereabouts, your preferences in life or for Wikipedia - and yet you creep around trying to change pages that you haven't been involved with. I think you need to reconsider your relationship with Wikipedia and become more a part of our community. Francis Hannaway (talk) 08:58, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

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Overzealous
I will observe that in your zeal to expurgate all mentions of the common name "Congo-Brazzaville", you made this edit, in which you changed the name of Tchibambelela's own book&mdash;not only changed the name, but changed part of the French title to English! Also, if you will recall, there was no "Republic of Congo" in the 1980s. Do you suppose we should anachronistically call it the "Republic of Congo" anyway, or should we belabor our readers by making them reader even longer versions of the formal name (and then switching to the current name later on in the article)? Everyking (talk) 21:07, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right;I may have been over zealous and I apologise for that. I was trying to avoid articles dated earlier than 1990s but it was late in the evening and there were a lot to do. However, I've been through lots of discussion over the naming of the two Congos and it's not just me who thinks that 1. there's never been a country called Congo-Brazzaville and 2. it's not really a common name in The Republic of Congo. The problem is that - although some countries go by an accepted common name - many English readers of Wikipedia are only further confused by these extra namings. I've just been through this discussion and this discussion and would draw your attention to them.
 * It's only for clarity in a world that thinks of Africa as one country. Hope you have a pleasant evening. Francis Hannaway (talk) 21:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)