User talk:Franklin222

I'm back, at least for now
Hi, Franklin. I've been away -- there's a dire family medical situation. I did want to get back on for a moment while I have a chance. I've spent some time this morning integrating the quotes section into the main biography, and adding a section titled "Controversy" that intends and I hope succeeds in giving the issue a more pro/con context that the floating quotes alone. I also added another pro quote from The Jack Kirby Collector.

And once more with feeling, as a fan, Vince deserves his own Web site, like that of Gene Colan [ or, for maybe a better example, that of the late Don Rico . With my best regards, as always, --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] (talk) 15:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

 Welcome to Wikipedia !

Hey there, Franklin222, and welcome to our great encyclopedia, which currently has more than 2,337,330 articles! Even with this large number, all of your contributions are important (including the small ones), and I hope you like the place and decide to stay! Here's a few starting tips for you:


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Happy Editing! -- Skyelarke  01:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

September 2009
Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test on the page Good girl art worked, and it has been automatically reverted. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox. If you believe there has been a mistake and would like to report a false positive, please report it here. Thank you. SoxBot III (talk | owner) 15:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to the page Good girl art. Such edits constitute vandalism and are reverted. Please do not continue to make unconstructive edits to pages; use the sandbox for testing. Thank you. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 15:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

That's great news!
I can hardly wait to see the Vince Colletta site and book! Have you thought of approaching Vanguard Press, which has published the John Romita Sketchbook, the John Buscema Sketchbook and other Silver Age artist books? Or perhaps better yet, TwoMorrows Publishing, which does The Jack Kirby Collector, publishes niche books. Maybe some kind of deal with them can be arranged? I full contend and will argue to ends of Valhalla that Vince Colletta was the best of all Kirby's Thor inkers. (How's that for a quote?!). With regards, -- Tenebrae (talk) 17:07, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, Franklin. As always, I'm happy and honored to help give Vince Colletta the more accurate, informative and well-written encyclopedia article that I and others can. I grew up with your dad's work, and his career deserves a book of its own.


 * Images on Wikipedia, in order to fall under what's called fair use of copyrighted material, needs to provide a clear historical or educational benefit. (See image copyright guidelines here.) The first image on the page is his first known collaboration with Kirby; the second is the first issue of Thor, the character with which he's most associated. The third image, which I put in myself, might be debatable, but I'd argue that an example of his DC Comics work, and an example of work that shows that Kirby, of his own volition and not because he was assigned Vince, chose Vince.


 * We probably should include an example of Vince's penciling, but I doubt that the editors who police fair use would agree to four images in an article this size &mdash; as it is, three is pushing it. But if you have an example Vince's penciling that illustrates an historical or educational point, I personally don't see any harm in swapping out one of the images already there. As always, Wikipedia is collaborative, and I don't have any more say than anyone else on any article; what I can bring is experienced knowledge of Wiki policies and guidelines, which can be a time-saver.


 * It certainly can't hurt to beef up the section on Vince's Timely/Atlas romance comics. I'll look on the Grand Comics Database and also see if I can find articles/quotes pertaining to it; if you know of any, add them to the article or direct me to them and I can add them.


 * What would be great, though, is a clear, sharp, illustrative photo of your dad, for the infobox at the top right. If you own a family photo, you could upload it yourself &mdash; I can help guide you through the pretty simple process &mdash; and you can indicate that you own the rights to the photo and that you're releasing it for use.


 * Let me know what I can do. In the meantime, I'll start researching his Timely/Atlas romance work. With regards, -- Tenebrae (talk) 18:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Growing Man
Thanks for your addition to the Infobox caption. It was perfectly legitimate, and I restored it. :-) Nightscream (talk) 18:44, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Ordered the book!
Hi, Franklin. Just wanted to let you know I've just pre-ordered The Thin Black Line book about Vince Colletta. I'm looking forward to it greatly! And to making your dad's article even more encyclopedic. I hope you're well. With regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 00:32, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Long time no talk. Sure, I will be happy to send a photo of Vinnie and a few examples of his early art for your perusal. I saw the new Vince Colletta book - good luck with it! Please let me know how to upload the stuff to you. Regards, Franklin222 (talk) 13:20, 27 February 2013 (UTC)Franklin Colletta


 * Good to hear from you! I can appreciate how uploading images and doing the rights / permissions properly can be daunting. But try this: Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload.


 * There, insert your photo using the "Choose File" button in the first box under the big blue box.


 * Then, in the next box down, find where it says "Licensing" and click the arrows that are at the far right of this. A pull-menu will appear. From that menu, choose "Own work, released into public domain" or one of the other "Own work" choices.


 * Then near the very bottom of the page, hit "Upload File." Let me know when you do this, and I'll insert it in the article.


 * With best wishes, --Tenebrae (talk) 21:36, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:SECRET STORY 7 VINCENT COLLETTA ART.jpg)
Thanks for uploading File:SECRET STORY 7 VINCENT COLLETTA ART.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Photo is up!
This is marvelous, Franklin! At some point we might want to do a color correction and maybe crop out some of the foreground, but this helps out the history of comic books.

I can't reference to Viola (his wife and your mom?) online and I'm on deadline and don't have time to see if the book mentions family, which we would put into a "Personal life" section. I'll look around again later.

As for the comic-book cover, we already have three in the article, covering important parts of Vince's career, so I'm not sure we could add more.

I'll be back around probably tomorrow. This is great, and your time, effort and willingness to help is much appreciated. With regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 14:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, Franklin. More than happy to help. Yeah, I think there's a provision Wikipedia has for a rights-holder to sign off on a Wikipedia-only use. I think there's even a way they can do it online, via http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS, if it's worth your looking into.


 * I looked for the same image at the Grand Comics Database, and your scan is better.


 * My copy of The Thin Black Line is buried among my overflow of books. If you keep a scrapbook or something, is there a newspaper or magazine clipping you can upload and temporarily post on my page that gives some biographical details about Vince, to confirm the name of his wife and children? Without something public that can be cited, we can't add that information. Come to think of it, an obit might work out best &mdash; I'm surprised I haven't run across one online


 * Let me know if you come up with anything and I'll be happy to take it from there. With regards, --Tenebrae (talk) 19:12, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. You can go ahead and request an admin remove it &mdash; I haven't done so, but I think you go here: Administrators' noticeboard. Otherwise, since no licensing is given there, a bot will likely remove it automatically in a few days. I'll remove the link from my talk page, and after that, unless someone already knows it's there, it'll be for all practical purposes hidden till its deleted.


 * Wikipedia can't cite privately held documents, although I suppose a case could be made that it's a public document available in New York City archives. I'll check with a knowledgable admin myself. Are you sure there was never a published magazine or newspaper interview with your dad, maybe in a local New Jersey paper?  --Tenebrae (talk) 20:44, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * And I see the bot (below) is hard at work already &mdash; you don't have to lift a finger! --Tenebrae (talk) 21:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

License tagging for File:VC Marriage License 001.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:VC Marriage License 001.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

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Great to hear from you!
And I'm really excited to hear about the possible book. Even if MSU doesn't go with it, you know you can always self-publish through Amazon's CreateSpace or a similar service. I'd be first in line to buy it!

I couldn't find Sinnott quoted on a Dan McFan site, though I did see this 2008 post on the presumably pseudonymous writer's blog, which he titled, rather unfortunately, "Is Mark Evanier Mentally Ill." If you have a link to Joe's quote there, that would be great.

I need to mention, though, that Wikipedia doesn't allow the use of anonymous or pseudonymous personal blogs, and only allows personal blogs at all if the writer is an acknowledged, published authority on a given subject. So I'm not sure anything from the Dan McFan blog would be usable. Also, the Sinnott quote you mentioned doesn't really say anything different from what he's quoted as saying in Ronin Ro's widely seen book Tales to Astonish. I'm afraid we can't remove a pertinent cited quote from reliably sourced book.

What we can do, of course, is add more pro-Colletta comments by historians and experts; there are a couple there now and certainly for the sake of balance it would not be inappropriate to add more. The article already gives comments in that vein by Pierre Comtois and Tony Seybert; why don't we look for more? I'll dig out my copy of The Thin Black Line and see what Bobby Bryant has to offer. In the meantime, keep me posted on anything you find. With very best wishes, Tenebrae (talk) 23:28, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, the good news is, I found my copy of The Thin Black Line so I can add cites from the book -- certainly, at the very least, basic biographical things, like a cite for your mom's name.


 * If Joe Sinnott amends his comments in a published source, we can totally add and cite that, with a transition to the effect of. "He later amended his views, stating, '[INSERT QUOTE HERE].' "


 * Did I tell you I own two Silver Thor Kirby pages inked by your dad? And they are both beautiful. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:03, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Higher-resolution image
Hi, Franklin. As always, it's a pleasure and an honor to hear from the son of this legendary comics creator.

As you can see at "Non-free media rationale for Vince Colletta" at File:SECRET STORY 7 VINCENT COLLETTA ART.jpg, I have uploaded the higher-res image of the comic-book cover and have placed the permission letter from Marvel within the rationale. Since Wikipedia's permissions department has a copy of this same e-mail, I don't imagine anyone will have an issue with this. I'm working today and on deadline, but I very much wanted to get this done for you as soon as I could.

I'm very sorry to hear about MSU declining to publish the book; i very much hope you can find another publisher or, as many people do, self-publish, which can be done very inexpensively now.

I thank you for your kind words about my and others' efforts to try to create a high-quality, high-standard encyclopedia page about Vince Colletta. I understand that the Joe Sinnott quote in the article's "Controversy" section is not flattering; given that it appeared in a high-profile book about Marvel Comics, removing it outright could be seen as biased editing, especially when the request comes from family. However, a balancing quote by the same person, whose opinion may have changed over the years, would be absolutely proper to include. The quotes from an unpublished book, obviously, can't be used unless those quotes themselves were to be published in a print or online reliable source, such as in a magazine article. But I will look again for a new Joe Sinnott quote that will reflect his evolving views and when I find one I will add it.

I hope otherwise that life goes well for you and yours, and I want you to know how much I appreciate the trust you place in me. I am always glad to help. With great regards back, --Tenebrae (talk) 16:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

The Most Beautiful Women on Earth
Today, in 1923, my father was born and today, in 2017, my book about his life and art becomes available at https://themostbeautifulwomenonearth.com Vince Colletta had a productive yet controversial career in comic books. Much has been written and discussed about both the beauty of his art and the ugliness of his art. Hopefully this book will provide a better perspective into Vinnie's life and art. Sentiments attributed to his critics are one part of the story. This Wikipedia page represents a fair and balanced view with a few exceptions. The tone of comments attributed to Joe Sinnott, to cite one example, are out of context compared to Mr. Sinnott's remarks in the book.

From "The Most Beautiful Women on Earth"

"The only thing negative that I can say about working for Vince Colletta is that I would do full detailed pencils in all my work, and when the finished product appeared, I found it hard to recognize my own work. Vince would actually eliminate many figures, silhouette others and cut many corners. You will hear several artists also tell you this about Vince as well.

But in spite of what some artists feel about Vince, the editors loved him because he would never miss a deadline. I'm sure  this  is  why  he  took  all  the  shortcuts  that  he  did. I always  remained friends with Vince and talked to him often on the phone for many years. The first time we met however wasn't until the 1975 Marvel Convention in NYC - several years after I started working with him. I will always be grateful to Vince Colletta for helping me out by giving me work back then, and I am proud to call him my friend."

Sentiments that seem to closely mirror what appears in Wikipedia (As comics artist Joe Sinnott told author Marc Flores, who writes under the pen name Ronin Ro,[18] "When I penciled the romance stories, I used to tell myself, Vince wrecked what I did. ... He would eliminate people from the strip and use silhouettes, everything to cut corners and make the work easier for himself.") nevertheless paints a completely different picture of Mr. Sinnott's true sentiments. Franklin222 (talk) 12:17, 15 October 2017 (UTC)Franklin Colletta

Vincenzo
Thank you, Franklin! I want very much to change that at Vince Colletta. Under Wikipedia rules I can't unless this is in a published source. Have you given any interviews where you say this? If so, we can use that as a citation! Let me know if you can, and I'm glad to see you're staying safe during this pandemic.--Tenebrae (talk) 17:00, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * How did I not know this book existed?? Fantastic! I'll update.--Tenebrae (talk) 17:54, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello. I uploaded an image of my father that was recently given to me by the artist, Romeo Tanghal, Sr. If it can be added to Vinnie's Wikipedia page please feel free to do so. Franklin222 (talk) 19:00, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Franklin CollettaFranklin222 (talk) 19:00, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

File:VINCE COLLETTA PAINTING BY ROMEO TANGHAL SR.jpg listed for discussion
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