User talk:FrogHammer

Hello!
Hi,, it's me, ! Cool username, right? I am excited to possibly work on some articles together. Don't worry about it if you don't have the bandwidth right now - there's no rush, buddy.

By the way, user talk pages like this are good for sending messages to other users. You can ping users to alert them that you have edited a talk page, like how I pinged you at the beginning of this section. I have some ideas for what we might do which I will share with you shortly. -TheMadDesperado (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Chisolm Trail contribution ideas
Here are some ideas I have for expanding information on Wikipedia about cattle drives. We can talk about ideas and stuff here. TheMadDesperado (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I talked my way into another Chisholm Trail exhibition in April. Having an updated wikipedia article could serve as some background to the exhibit. FrogHammer (talk) 03:21, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Trail guides and maps
I don't see any articles on the maps or literature distributed by the different businessmen promoting trails to their own stockyards. That should definitely be added if it's not there already. I guess it could start out as a section of another article. It doesn't even mention these in Cattle drives in the United States. In the article on Joseph McCoy it says he "advertised extensively", which is probably a reference to the trail guides used as advertisements, but it doesn't explain. If there's not already an article on this subject, we have to do it. We might need to work up to writing a new article though. TheMadDesperado (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

This will require some research to see if there are additional maps, other than the one I used. A challenge is to find a public domain image. Not sure there are other advertisments. In the early days, at least, Joseph McCoy was the main promoter of the Kansas cattle towns.

There are maps from various times that point have been used to determine the names that were used historically for the trails. These are documented most completely in the books published by the Kraisingers; and also emphasized by Wayne Ludwig FrogHammer (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Cut and pasted from Chisolm Trail talk page
I was thinking you might have some information about trail guides and maps that were distributed as advertisements. Were they distributed by stockyard owners? The railroad?

I think you could add some information to the Business aspects section about the guides and maps and also possibly add information to the map that is pictured in the article. It came from one of those trail guides, right?

Also, it's possible that trail guides like that might even need their own section in the article Cattle drives in the United States if they were commonly used as advertisements for different trails.

-TheMadDesperado (talk) 03:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The map shown on the page was distributed by Joseph McCoy to direct herds on the trail to come to his stockyards in Abeline. He sent agents south into Kansas to meet the drovers coming north. The map was accompanied by a booklet that described the route, mile by mile, and gave reasons to bypass the AS&SF (although not mentioned by name, it appears on the map and would have been reached before the Kansas and Pacific location where McCoy's stockyards were located).  So I think it would add depth to the article to give this context for the map. FrogHammer (talk) 03:38, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree. I think that it's very interesting that the booklet actually talked about the other stockyards and why cattle drivers should go past them! Do you have sources for everything? I think the booklet itself can be a source; it would be good if there were a scanned copy online, but probably not strictly necessary. If there isn't one online, maybe one could be scanned and added to the Wikimedia Commons.... TheMadDesperado (talk) 03:51, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * let's think about where this should go. Do you think it should be added to an existing section within Chisholm Trail? Should it get a new section in the article? I think you already have all the information you need. If you have at least one source ready to go, I think you should Be bold and make the edit at your convenience. Sorry if I'm being a little over-the-top; I'm excited and I like working on things with you. TheMadDesperado (talk) 04:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Cattle drive hazards
I remember Jim (Jim, lol) saying something about how the river crossings were the most dangerous time on the drive. Also maybe something about culling the skittish cattle? I was thinking this could be a section in another article - possibly Cattle drives in the United States or Cattle drive TheMadDesperado (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * User:ThemadDesperdo I Oversimplified the situation by saying rivers were the most dangerous. Stampedes were equal.  An interest of my was to list causes of stampedes based on the reminiscences published in various sources.  A worthwhile undertaking would be to mine "The Trail Drivers of Texas" for stories and summarize them (over 150 first-hand accounts).  These are difficult to assess in the form they exist in. FrogHammer (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Expand the article Cattle drive
The article doesn't have much meat. It mostly talks about cattle drives in different countries. Could some sections be added about how cattle drives work, cattle drives in media/pop culture, etc? Or is that all captured in the Cattle drives in the United States article?

-TheMadDesperado (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The cattle drives in the u.S. article hits a lot of points, but I don't think it's comprehensive.   I see more opportunity though for editing in the Chisholm Trail article, including referencing the Kraisingers and Wayne Ludwig's work on the routes and names.  Note there is a copy of the map there, as obtained from the Kansas historical society, but no explaination of the map's context as an advertisement--here is an opportunity to begin with some additional material. (Interesting that the Kansas Historical Society wants a fee for using even their public domain materials--which is why I bought my own copy). FrogHammer (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Talk page suggestions
I have three notes for you that will make your talk page comments easier for others to read. 1. Sign your talk page edits with four tildes ( ~ ) Wikipedia will turn them into a timestamped signature when it compiles your edit.

2. Indent with a colon so your reply is indented. See below where Bob and Carlos both reply to Alice and Alice replies to Bob's reply. More info at Indentation.

3. Tag whoever you are replying to. You can use to tag me or  to tag a user with the username "Example".

TheMadDesperado (talk) 03:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)