User talk:FruitMonkey/Archive 2

1980 NZ tour of Wales
Hi -I've noticed something wrong with the results section of this entry - the game against Llanelli is repeated and I think should be replaced with a match against Newport. I haven't got my Rothmans annual 1981-82 handy to check, can you have a look? Thank you. --Bcp67 (talk) 04:47, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar
No I didn't notice that those had all been created. Good stuff! - Shudde   talk  13:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Dual-code internationals
Hi FruitMonkey, my bag is dual-code rugby internationals. Having started articles on all Australians in the category I'm now moving onto an article on the topic itself (see sandbox, if you care). I know there've been a fair few Taffies in the category. So two questions if I may 1) don't suppose you know of any online lists of Welsh DCIs and 2) are you familiar with any editor peers who might write in this or the Welsh RU/RL crossover area ? - Sticks  66  14:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks & yes. If they are genuine dual-code internationals with an existing stub, just tag it Category:Dual code rugby internationals . If no article exists the just let me know the name. -  Sticks  66  00:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Glamorgan
I've changed the text to the past tense where required. I think it reads better now but I'd appreciate your comments. Jongleur100 (talk) 07:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the Barnstar - very kind of you!--Bcp67 (talk) 15:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Ysgol Gyfun Rhydfelen
Hello Fruitmonkey,

I was hoping that you could spare a moment to add your opinion to a discussion taking place here. Talk:Ysgol_Gyfun_Rhydfelen It is only a short discussion and will only take a moment to read and to get into. Thanks for your help. Harris578 (talk) 07:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Abertillery and Brynmawr
Both pages have a link re their withdrawal in 2002 from the Principality Cup. This link has a further link which contains the results, this gives Aberavon - Abertillery 93-0 in the fifth round. Were Abertillery re-instated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grileyelrs (talk • contribs) 19:59, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Pontypridd Nightlife
Hello again Fruitmonkey, I just had a queery on my talk page and thought I'd pass the buck... I mean I thought you would be in a better position to provide an answer! You seem to know the rules on what goes a lot better than I do. Thanks again. Harris578 (talk) 13:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Harris578 (talk) 14:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Miners' Institutes
Hi Fruitmonkey, Thanks for the message. I just happened to be doing some editing. I had searched for a page on Miners' Institutes a bit earlier and couldn't find one, but suddenly, as if by magic, there it was! I was thinking about doing something similar myself - you beat me by a whisker. I'm doing a little bit of a clean-up at present, mainly typos. I think the clubs were quite distinct from the Institutes. I'll have a think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jongleur100 (talk • contribs) 12:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you know that there is already a page on working men's clubs? It's here: Working Men's Clubs It seems desperately short on citations, but I think clearly shows the difference between clubs and Institutes. In my mining village there were several social clubs as well as the Institute. They were really drinking clubs and were mainly a device for getting around Sunday Closing I think. Jongleur100 (talk) 08:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think that disabiguation links would be a good idea. I've done a re-direct from 'Miners Institute' and 'Miners Institutes' (without the apostrophe) to your page. Not everyone has read 'Eats Shoots and Leaves! I think political and army clubs are quite a different kettle of fish, and I'd stay well away from them if I were you. Jongleur100 (talk) 09:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Dick Jones (rugby player)
You put this article up for DYK. It's currently a bit short of the character minimum. If you could add an extra paragraph it'd probably make it through.-Wafulz (talk) 12:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

David Jones (rugby)
Just saw your comments to me on the discussion page re his RL Rep appearances. Thanks for that. Am now working through the detail of the Welsh DCIs in my sandbox article User:Sticks66/Work Space 2. So I may have more questions, if you don't mind ? Rgds - Sticks  66  5 Aug 2008
 * And specifically... don't suppose you would know anything about the Int'l RL debut (date, game, venue) for Ray Cale,John Bevan, Lewis Jones, Keith Jarrett, Steve Fenwick and  Clive Griffiths ? -  Sticks  66  04:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And presumably it's a well known Welsh rugby fact that in Wales' 1st game of the 1995 RLWC Allan Bateman, Adrian Hadley, Jonathan Davies, John Devereux, Scott Gibbs and Paul Moriarty all became DCIs? I've just realised this. - Sticks  66  04:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Can I add my ten-cent's worth on this? Jonathan Davies was already a DCI before then - he played for GB v Australia in the 1994 test series and scored a famous try at Wembley - I was there! --Bcp67 (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

1906 South Africa Grand Slam tour
Change it back to what you named it. They didn't achieve a grand slam, so the name is misleading. If it's mean't to mean that they could have achieved a Grand Slam then sure, but it's very misleading because they lost their Test to Scotland and drew with England. I think the name you had originally was fine, the only problem may have been that they toured in 1906-07, rather then just 1906. I wouldn't worry about that though. - Shudde   talk  11:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why this article was renamed. I don't support the use of the title Grand Slam tour for any rugby union tour - some tourists have achieved a Grand Slam but the 1906-07 team didn't anyway! --Bcp67 (talk) 15:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The article has been moved again. I have put a comment on the talk page and I propose moving it back to its original title.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Aaaaargh, I'll have a look at the new name.FruitMonkey (talk) 19:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Shamateurism and the professional era 1980-to date
Hi FruitMonkey,

The section is in accordance with Wikipedia...in being Bold with editing. It was certainly the feeling within the game until it became professional. I will have a good go at this section in the coming few weeks or so, but please edit anything that I write that is complete bolloxx. Thanks for leaving your message. Seth Whales (talk) 14:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. I have just started a new article Sardis Road ground. If you have time, I would be grateful if you could help by expanding this article too.  Seth Whales (talk) 14:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Richard Webster - rugby dual code int'l
Do you know of this guy ? Richard Webster (rugby). He was in the Wales 1995 RLWC squad but it turns out he didn't play a game. Do you know of any other international RL appearance he made for Wales or GB ? - Sticks  66  07:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Plebs' League
No problem - it's a very useful article to add. Thanks for creating it! Warofdreams talk 22:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hiya
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I should add myself to wiki project Wales. I'll do that soon. It's getting late now. I will have to stop soon. Nos da Weisinger (talk) 21:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I found that link to South Wales confusing in many of the articles. with the South in capitals it looked as if "South Wales" was a state in Wales like New South Wales in Australia. I wouldn't disagree that these places are in the southern half of Wales but linking to South Wales like that is confusing. Also there are areas like South West Wales and South East Wales, which the Welsh assembly use for policy planning purposes; and there can be confusion when certain places can be both in South Wales and West Wales. I think for settlements it's best not to put these in the lead section. However, these links can be used in regional descriptions in the body of the article if the place has some notable historical or recent role relating to these regions. I hope you agree with this. Cheers Weisinger (talk) 21:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK
Thank you for your contributions! - Mailer Diablo 03:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Proof reading
Thanks - but it's a case of pot and kettle - a lot of my contributions need proof-reading too, so feel free to have a look at anything I put up!!--Bcp67 (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

James Dalton II
Thank you for helping expand this article. Cla68 (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I discovered this story through reading Radike's book (listed in the references section). Although it appears that Dalton's superior officers carried a very positive opinion of his leadership ability, Radike uses a lot of words to deliver a distinctly contrary opinion.  That's another aspect of the Dalton story that makes it so interesting. Cla68 (talk) 00:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Rhondda CYnon Taf/Taff
The county/authority is no officially known af Rhondda Cynon Taf in both languages (see logo on their website and most articles.). I'v ereverted soem of your edits, but may have missed a few.--Rhyswynne (talk) 09:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

1966 British Lions tourists from Wales
Hi, can you help me a bit please? I'm trying to finish the player articles which link the 1966 British Lions tour to Australia and New Zealand. I am unfamiliar with some of the players names, listed in my ref book with full names of Gareth Protheroe, David Kenneth Jones and Charles Howard Norris. I think Jones was known as Ken Jones (he was a centre who played for Llanelli and won caps between 1962 and 1966) so will need disambiguating from his more famous namesake, but I am not sure about the others. Would you have anything which can help? Thanks--Bcp67 (talk) 09:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A look on scrum.com told me that Norris was known as Howard. Unusually he played more times for the Lions than he did for Wales.--Bcp67 (talk) 17:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Bat Nelson Pic
I checked out your picture and it looks good to me. Of course, with those old-time pictures there can be mistakes, but I say leave the picture up unless someone objects. Thanks.MKil (talk) 11:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)MKil

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice
Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 19:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

1904 Lions tour
Another good article. My usual source (Clem Thomas's book) shows two more games - a 24-5 win over Queensland and 17-3 win over Metropolitan Union. These come between the Northern Districts game and the 18-7 Queensland win. Have you got anything about these in your sources? Thomas's book is usually reliable and it makes for 19 matches, which tallies with the statistics shown in various editions of the Rothmans RU Yearbook.--Bcp67 (talk) 07:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Years in Wales
Hi. You're doing lots of good work on these pages. Diolch. Deb (talk) 16:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Fred Jowett
Thx for the tip re Fred Jowett as a DCI. I note the 2nd line of your article refers to "Bevan" - is that a typo ? Interestingly www.scrum.com only has his Wales appearance and he gets no mention in any of the four Tests of the 1904 Lions tour. I wonder the cap seller took some license and put someone else's tour cap in to make up a job lot ? With regard to the RL cap ; I suppose he may have earnt it in either the 1905 or 1906 Other Nationalities games v England since it seems he was in Hull at that time. Afraid I have no data on early Other Nat line-ups and I don't think I can let the ad for the caps be a reliable source to cite !! Rgds

Charlie Newman
Apologies!! I piled into this article, not realising you were still editing it!!--Bcp67 (talk) 20:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why such a quick edit? I just had a look at your "contribs", and picked up a new article on a rugby subject - which are all I ever look at of your edits - I wouldn't presume to be able to do anything with your other Welsh-related subjects.--Bcp67 (talk) 20:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Llwynypia
Hi, yes&mdash;I get back occasionally to my ancestral terrain but have a strong interest in its heritage. See my website here for some other pics taken last year. My granddad Enoch and his brother Evan moved there around 1900 from Aberaeron. Enoch was a top fighter and would have broken a few police jaws in the 1910 scuffles. He taught me to pronounce 'Llwynypia' when I was a kid aged 8, visiting from London and trying to read the local paper! And, btw, I'm also a rugby union freak, always a supporter of Wales. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK
Thank you for your contributions! - Mailer Diablo 04:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Jack Liebowitz
Nice work creating this article! Glad to have such a good editor as yourself in the project. Welcome! --Tenebrae (talk) 02:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Another AfD
An article you have an interest in, Jonathan Bishop, has been nominated for deletion. You might wish to express your opinion on the proposed deletion at Articles_for_deletion/Jonathan_Bishop_(3rd_nomination). --Anthon.Eff (talk) 17:07, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

10 DYKs!
Will you please slow down! I've been attempting to catch you up on DYKs but you're leaping ahead so fast I'll never be able to catch you now. Anyway, I just wanted to say congratulations on your 10th. ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ talk 21:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's strange, I keep coming across the same few too, although obviously my interests are not identical to yours. There are roughly 50 participants listed on the Welsh Wikipedians' notice board (why aren't you there?) but I never seem to see their work. Of the ones that I do see, very few write articles, but generally go around editing other people's stuff, not always constructively. Nice job on Jack Liebowitz! Couldn't you find a Welsh connection?????  ♦ Jongleur100 ♦  talk 22:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * [[Image:WikiThanks.png|43px|left|WikiThanks]] Welsh Wiki thanks and congratulations to you both for all the work you do on behalf of Welsh Wikipedians. Maybe someday I'll be as good as you. &#8734;&#9788;Geaugagrrl (T) / (C) 03:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Death dates
Thanks for your message. I've a good, although a bit outdated now, book by the rugby statistician John Griffiths, which lists every match played by the big 8 RU nations and the Lions up to 1987 (it was published just after the inaugural World Cup). It gives team line-ups and scorers plus a short commentary for each season, and records up to 1987. There's also a list of all players with their birth and death dates, although obviously some are unknown or just given as a year or month. If you're ever looking for some info give me a shout!--Bcp67 (talk) 08:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Clem Lewis. Done! --Bcp67 (talk) 15:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Only got a year of death for Fred I'm afraid!!--Bcp67 (talk) 15:23, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Bobby Delahay done. --Bcp67 (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Reggie Gibbs and Tom Arthur done. The Griffiths book only gives the year, 1882, for Gibbs, so you're ahead of him there!--Bcp67 (talk) 19:56, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Got a month and year for Steve Morris, have updated the article.--Bcp67 (talk) 05:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I've failed you with Jack Bassett. No date of death given in Griffiths I am afraid - perhaps when the book was published in 1987 he was still alive.--Bcp67 (talk) 18:39, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing on Ned Jenkins, bar his middle name, but I did get a death date for Archie Skym.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Not creating anything myself at the moment but do drop by every day or so to see what's about. Griffiths doesn't give any birth or death dates for Bowdler I am sorry to say, although he does state the full names as Frederick Arthur Bowdler. Sorry I couldn't help on this one. --Bcp67 (talk) 07:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No luck on Frank Purdon I'm afraid - my book gives no dates whatsoever for Frank.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Bernard Turnbull, brother of the great Maurice - name and date done.--Bcp67 (talk) 05:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi there, been on holiday for a couple of weeks, will pick up outstanding bits and pieces later this week. If you've got a list of players you'd like birth/death dates checked out on, would you mind sticking them on my talk page. Thanks. --Bcp67 (talk) 19:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your kind words of support. Having had a good weekend when I've persuaded another editor that one of my articles should not be speedily deleted, and acquired another DYK, I'm back.

It's always been my philosophy to go to bed each night having learned something new, so I'm ever ready to listen to a good argument and, if I think that argument is convincing, to change my view. However, if I think it's wrong, I'm prepared to fight my corner. What I find difficult though is dealing with people who are patronising, who sneer and scoff at my best efforts. This, I think, is totally against the principles of Wikipedia, which should be about co-operation and not confrontation. But my little spat pales into insignificance compared with the grief you've had to put up with. (Sorry, appalling grammar.) I'm learning that Wiki editors are just as idio-synchratic as anyone else. To at least one the words 'talented' and 'ironic' are POV, despite being found on dozens of Wiki pages. For another, any adjective used about a living person is, apparently, 'advertising'. So I guess I'll just have to learn to live with these little annoyances if I'm going to make any more contributions. Spleen vented. ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ talk 09:33, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Appalling spelling as well as bad grammar! I meant idiosyncratic.Cheers. ♦ Jongleur100 ♦  talk 09:49, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Assessment
Thanks for your comments on my talk page. I don't do much assessment - mainly WP:WPMILHIST - but saw some unassessed articles in WP:WALES, so had a go. To be honest, I don't think there are any firm rules about assessing importance, so I judged the National Assembly for Wales to be - somewhat rarely - Top importance; anything of general pan-Wales interest to be High, geographic interest as Mid, and niche articles to be Low. On the whole, assessing as something is better than no assessment at all. The class is better defined - I usually classify as Stub or Start. I find B-class to be too much of a pain to assess. I think I would have made Llangollen Railway, National Botanic Garden of Wales and Ray Reardon (for example) as Mid, as they're quite well known within a Welsh context. At least they are more significant that some small villages or railway stations. Welsh (talk) 20:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I looked at Rhondda. It's a mighty fine article overall. The biggest gap seems to be in the section Rhondda - which is very short and doesn't address the decline of traditional industry and an assessment of current economy etc. You could consider a See also section to deal with related articles not otherwise linked, if you can think of any. My gut reaction would be B-class Mid, though as explained above I don't usually commit to anything above Start because there's too much to check! Happy to rate it when you're ready. Welsh (talk) 21:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As the last remaining unassessed article, I have now rated Rhondda. I see you have started to enhance the modern period. It's a very good article, and perhaps should be put forward for GA status - I don't know what the criteria and procedure for that is. What's left to do? Well its amazing how many Wales articles are not tagged. For example I used AWB to check that everything in List of towns in Wales were covered. It did the wrong thing with DAB and Redirect pages, but there were several gaps. Also I picked up Western Mail (Wales), for example. Also there are a few hundred articles without an importance rating, though I targetted the most mature ones and rated them. Welsh (talk) 06:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

St Lythans
Hiya FruitMonkey, I noticed you've been adding quality and importance tags to half the pages I have on watch (most of the rest already had one). May I ask your advice please? Could you tell me how I can improve the quality of the St Lythans article? I would like it to be as good as it can be and would welcome any help you would be willing to offer. Look forward to your response. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 22:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, more than alright - outstanding. Thanks very much. I hadn't realised it hadn't been assessed yet. I look forward to any constructive criticism at all. Best way to learn. Much appreciated. Daicaregos (talk) 22:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thought you may not have had my talk page on watch - so I've copied what I wrote there yesterday:
 * Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to look at this article. I've had a few positive comments, which were encouraging, but didn't improve the article at all. Your comments were enlightening in that you came at the article thinking that it was about the village. Whereas I came at it writing about the dolmen, the history of the people who built it and who or what they turned into (religion then, juxtaposed to religion now) - probably just pretentious crap. You could have a point about splitting the article in two. I'm not sure, but it's worth considering. It's only the continuity issue that would hold me back. On reflection, I think just renaming the article 'St Lythans Burial Chamber' would be better. But you'd know best. We could write a village stub too I guess. But there's not much to write about, in truth. You were right about the 'work of love'. There would have been so few individuals around at the time it was built, that it's highly likely that if my direct ancestors weren't actually involved in St Lythans' construction, they would have polishing bones etc there at some point. So I feel 'connected' with the site. Not in some New Age religious sense, but in a grounded sense of 'Cymru is where I belong'. Not sure if I quoted this source, but it's exceptional: I quoted 'mudstone' in the article, but they say "all are of the same mudstone used at Tinkinswood, but were probably available locally." I'll add that. Although, on the Tinkinswood article it says it's made of limestone. All in all, though, my baby's been born and has grown up. It's time she went her own way. I don't feel that I own the article any more and would be happy to see anyone's contribution to improve it. If that contribution were mine, that would be fine too. Yours, Daicaregos (talk) 21:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed the article's name now to St Lythans burial chamber. Hopefully, this will avoid any confusion between the dolmen and the village in future. Any feedback to improve the article further would be appreciated. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 10:57, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd still welcome any feedback on the St Lythans article, if you have the time. I (really) look forward to your comments. Yours, Daicaregos (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. :) Daicaregos (talk) 21:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hiya FruitMonkey, Haven't forgotten the St Lythans burial chamber article, have you? I've just created River Clun, South Wales. I guess I'll have the same sort of basic errors there too. Please let me know what you think. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 09:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 13:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

List of Wales international rugby union players
Cheers for the tip mate. I am actually using the WRU website for all of the stats, so I'll keep a lookout for those 1 July birthdates and I'll try to find an alternate website for stats. I'll start adding the "C" players later on. – PeeJay 17:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Reggie Gibbs
Good article that - he must have been a phenomenal player! Set a try-scoring record which needed Gareth Edwards and Gerald Davies to beat it half a century later. Anyway, the Griffiths book credits him with 17 tries for Wales, so I've changed it. Happy to compare with you to see which seems more correct.--Bcp67 (talk) 20:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Rating WP:Wales articles
My thoughts over some WP:Wales articles: Hope that helps, Welsh (talk) 22:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Some (a few) are hardly related to Wales at all, and I have deleted them from WP:Wales assessment
 * Many are short and of low importance, but nevertheless worthy and could be expanded
 * Many Wales articles are not tagged in WP:Wales at all
 * I am not sure WP:Wales is very active - we seem to be newcomers doing stuff, but I see little other activity
 * As for deleting articles? I am not an admin, so that is a tedious process so I've rarely gone down that route. In fact generally I am pro keeping articles unless they are clearly spam, rubbish, vanity, etc. When the urge takes me I do a Google search and add some extra facts, a link etc, to make the article a bit more decent.

Nash, Newport
Agreed any `flowery language' can go. Perhaps also the Electoral Ward details should go in the info box. But am surprised that you seem to think a proposed new motorway across the Caldicot Levels has "nothing to do with" Nash. If you think this threat (which applies most directly, but not soley, to Nash) could be noted any other way, perhaps you could suggest another way? Or do you think that the threat has now gone? Nash is a village, not a town and for this reason alone may be more under threat from new development of all sorts. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your support. Perhaps an original desire for brevity had hidden that information away too well. I'm not sure any more, unfortunately, how much clout village Community Councils have, especially in the face of the latest planning decision handed down from Strasbourg or Brussels. And of course Wikipedia has to be seen to be unpolitical. Yes, some of my best edits seem to be fantastical, it seems. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Ossie Male
Dates of death for Male and Huzzey done. Your Male article says that he captained Wales in his last three internationals, in the 1928 Five Nations but the Griffith book has Albert Jenkins as captain against Ireland - I haven't altered it, but do you want to have a look at your sources? --Bcp67 (talk) 19:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry - I've changed it. The article on Albert Jenkins states that he captained Wales twice, which tallies with the Griffiths source - Ireland 1923 and Ireland 1928, losing both.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Another query, if you don't mind!! John Evans, my source has his d.o.b. as 12 September 1913 (rather than 1911). No need to change if your ref has something else - although I generally regard Griffiths as authoritative, he isn't infallible!--Bcp67 (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

John Evans
I'd stick with your sources - both the Newport and the WRU give his d.o.b. as 1911 (although they might have fed off one another!). A 19-year-old debut for Newport would make more sense too, and 1911 would have made him Wales captain at 23 rather than 21. I think leave it as it is. I'm learning more about early 20th century Welsh rugby than I'd ever have thought possible! --Bcp67 (talk) 20:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Peter Waals
Hi Fruit Monkey, I'm thinking of putting a new article I've written up for DYK. After the mauling I got last time I would appreciate you casting a critical eye over Peter Waals to see where I may have transgressed. I've referenced everything I can think of, and as far as I can see there can be no question of non-notability, POV or advertising. What do you think? ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ talk 17:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ta very much. Watch this space! Cheers  ♦ Jongleur100 ♦  talk 18:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

South Africa rugby tours
Where do you get this information from please because I would like some of the info

RU assessment
Thanks for your input. I agree, I mistagged that one. Do you have any input on the following discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rugby_union/Assessment --Bob (talk) 22:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Fruit monkey! As an ex Rhondda-ite who has lived in Canada since the age of 7, may I congratulate you on doing an excellent job of documenting the town of my childhood! Brings back a lot of old memories. I can even spot the house in Cwmparc where my Mom grew up. Thanks so much for your work! Huevans (talk) 03:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Bill Clement (rugby player)
Hello! Your submission of Charles Taylor (rugby player) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. November 7

Parkmill
Hi FruitMonkey, can I ask for your help please? I've been working on Parkmill, Gower. There is a gap in the infobox for the Police and the Fire Service - where it should say South Wales. Any idea how to correct it? I'd be grateful if you could have a look. Thanks, Daicaregos (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that FruitMonkey. That did the trick. I'd put in City and County of Swansea, when it just needed Swansea. Well you live & learn. It doesn't seem to accept Welsh translations, though. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

First BI team known as Lions
Have you got any info on when the Lions first became the Lions? The articles state that the name first came into use in 1950 but Clem Thomas's book (which I usually regard as definitive) reckons that Cove-Smith's 1924 side were the first to be referred to as Lions as an alternative to the official British Isles Rugby Union Team. He also states that the 1930 team were the first to be given Lions brooches to give to friends and children. Any thoughts?--Bcp67 (talk) 21:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Glad you've got a copy of the Griffiths book, its an outstanding work of reference, of a sort which will never be published again in these internet times. Also, if it came out now it would be about six times thicker! Per your article on Rex Willis though - the author's name is John Griffiths, not Terry!!--Bcp67 (talk) 20:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

John Bevan (rugby union)
You'll find that the Wikipedia guidelines advise against using birth dates in disambiguators. You'll also find that John Bevan was a an international-level coach. It has been decided that sports alone as disambiguators are fine, as has already been the case with individuals involved in tennis, baseball, ice hockey, basketball, etc. Have a look at the John Bevan disambiguation page. It really is fine the way it was. --Jeff79 (talk) 21:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

RU WikiProject
Looks like the WikiProject is very quiet, lots of key contributors haven't even edited since mid/late November... could you therefore please take a peek at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rugby_union and give me some advice? I'd appreciate it. Thanks! --Dweller (talk) 11:25, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for trying! --Dweller (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Ray Prosser
Hi Fruit Monkey. I can't seem to find a Wiki article on Ray Prosser. Is he on your to-do list? Plenty of material there I should think. Cheers  ♦ Jongleur100 ♦  talk 00:44, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That's what I call service !!!!  ♦ Jongleur100 ♦  talk 21:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Clydach Vale map
Hi, again. I like the Clydach vale map. Any chance of your fixing the Llanon one? Cheers Bjenks (talk) 10:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks for the info! BTW, have you checked out the fabulous pic of Tommy Farr which I found in the attic today?! Bjenks (talk) 11:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Player biographies
Would you object to me copying your layout pattern for RU player bios? I've always liked the structure and I'm planning to start writing some again.--Bcp67 (talk) 08:39, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your replies. I'm thinking of doing some bios for notable England players as I've got more references than for anything else. Also, ideally I'd like to see at least a stub for every post-war Lion, I got as far back as 1966 with this but there are a few from 1962 who still need doing.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Dyfodwg
The CFD in question was a mess as no-one bothered to check the content of the category this time. The nominator was made aware of the content at a previous CFD. Dyfodwg is a even more interesting case and you might have to find a new category for it. From reading the articles it is more of a ethology rather than a description of a place. It seems to be like an explanatory footnote to the Llantrisant article. As you seem to be the article creator - could you take another look. Agathoclea (talk) 23:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely agree, it is not a community of Wales but it was a parish of sorts as far as I can tell. A parish is a subdivision of of a doicese, but Wales tended to use clasau which were often built around a cantref. But these categories don't exist, not sure why not. I hate to see any article without a category, maybe it should be placed under Category:Geography of Wales until something more suitable could be decided upon? Cheers for ther input. FruitMonkey (talk) 01:16, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually from looking at the article I am unclear what it is. A person, a village, a name? Could you expand on that in the lead to the article. IE D is a ward/village in the community of Foo. The origin of its names comes ..... Then categorization should be a lot easier. Agathoclea (talk) 01:30, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Platine War
Thank you very much for your aid in the article about the Platine War. I haven´t translated all text from portuguese to english yet, but is good to get some help. Thank you again! - --Lecen (talk) 21:47, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello! I´m done with the translation of the article. I´ll try next to put all sources. Could please take a look at "The Empire of Brazil reacts" section and correct any mistakes? Do you have any photo of John Pascoe Grenfell? So far, I´ve found on google only paintings or drawings, but never a real photo. Thanks again, - --Lecen (talk) 13:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello again! I´ve just translated a section about the Brazilian Navy of the Imperial Era. Would you be interested in checking it out to correct any grammar or spelling mistake for me, please? The link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Brazil#Imperial_Armada Thanks a lot! - --Lecen (talk) 16:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Six Nations Championship
Thank you for your words of support, I was feeling totally isolated until I read your comment.Bloodholds (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: vandalism
Well, as you know, we can't block users until a fourth offense is committed and then the user can be reported to AIV. If all the users are coming from a specific range of IP addresses, then we can ask for an IP block, but that doesn't seem to be the case. All we can do now is simply battle it and ask for blocks when it's justified. miquonranger03 (talk) 14:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? That's good to hear. I didn't think of that as a solution initially, but I'm glad that somebody did. miquonranger03 (talk) 00:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Typos
Noticed a lot of typos in the articles you've been editing lately. Maybe you'll find it easier to copy the articles into word where you can do a spell check. Vlad858 (talk) 15:15, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Typos
The Pleasure is all mine. I just like to make sure that someone with superior knowledge such as yourself, doesn't get sloppy. Besides there were a few discrepancies I amended as well as the typos. Vlad858 (talk) 15:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Take Note
What gives you the right to decide what actually qualify's as vandalism? I doubt it very much you've ever been to Nelson or Nelson RFC to know any of the characters there or the banter between them. You must have one hell of a life if you're on wikipedia all day and night editing. You seriously need to get a sense of humour and stop being such a know it all Emanuelli25 (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible.

Rhondda
Hi Fruitmonkey, Elizabeth Andrews might not have been born in the Rhondda, but she did grow up there. The encyclopedia's article on the Rhondda does mention her in the context of local women's lives (p.746). I think she's notable and relevant. Cheers. Pondle (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * An excellent article and now GA-class. Thanks for your hard work.Pyrotec (talk) 12:33, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

British and Irish Lions Tour Boxes
Many thanks for your message. Regarding your question about the pre and post 1910 split. The answer is that the various histories I have read all refer to the 1910 tour to South Africa as the first "official" tour, with prior tours not having been selected by the four official bodies of the Home Nations.Kwib (talk) 15:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have updated the British and Irish Lions Captains template for the 1904 captaincy. Thanks for pointing that out.Kwib (talk) 17:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Wales rugby union footballers vs Category:Welsh rugby union footballers
I've noticed that you've been adding the former category to a few pages, so I just thought I'd let you know about the existence of the latter, as they seem to be performing the same function. However, if the former category is intended only for players who have played for the Wales national team, I would suggest renaming it to Category:Wales international rugby union footballers. – PeeJay 00:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Once the category has been empty for four days, it can be speedy deleted under speedy deletion criterion C1 (db-c1) or you could request deletion as the author of the page, using CSD A7 (db-a7). – PeeJay 10:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi I've deleted Category:Wales rugby union footballers as per your request. But for future reference a7 is for notability, as a Londoner you might expect me to have no qualms about deleting "Wales rugby union footballers" for lack of notability, but since my granny was welsh I changed the deletion code to author requested. In future if you want something deleted where you are the only meaningful author then I'd suggest more CSD codes are on Criteria for speedy deletion (and its always safest to check them with preview). Cheers  Were  Spiel  Chequers  12:33, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for File:Patrick Gibbs.jpg}
Thank you for uploading File:Patrick Gibbs.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check:
 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's escription page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 20:14, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for File:Patrick Gibbs.jpg}
Thank you for uploading File:Patrick Gibbs.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check:
 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's escription page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 20:14, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK noms
I meant to drop you a note to say I had nominated two of your articles for T:TDYK, though I see you found Selwyn Biggs and I have suggested Lawrence Bulger as a St. Patrick's Day nomination. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 17:30, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Frank Hodges (trade unionist)
--Dravecky (talk) 06:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Mahmood Hussein Mattan
Shubinator (talk) 20:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Patrick Gibbs
--Dravecky (talk) 21:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Lawrence Bulger
--Dravecky (talk) 17:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

YOU NEED TO READ THIS!
I think the pink jellybeans are the best. --222.154.167.248 (talk) 08:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

List of Wales national rugby union footballers
Hey man, well done on that article. It must have taken you weeks! Any chance you could help me with the alphabetical list of Wales players that I'm working on at User:PeeJay2K3/List of Wales international rugby union players? – PeeJay 10:57, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just looking to get it filled in. It's such a laborious process, having to flip between web pages and browsing around the WRU's player archive, that it would be nice if I had some help with getting all of the players listed. That's the main reason why I've not edited it for months. So yeah, any help you could give me would be ace! – PeeJay 11:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Quintuple DYK
Shubinator (talk) 03:47, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

British and Irish Lions record in South Africa
I have started on this page could you find some one who can do some of the tables please. Mr Hall of England (talk) 10:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations

 * Llongyfarchiadau! Excellent work! BencherliteTalk 23:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

1908-09
Great job on 1908-09 Australia rugby union tour of the British Isles and France by the way. I must get my hands dirty and help, though you've broken the back of it. Just writing at the mo' on one of the tourists Ward Prentice, but I'll get back. Rgds - Sticks  66  12:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've found a couple of pics of late of that tour. I'll go and dig them up.- Sticks  66  12:22, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually are you sure the tour took in France ? I think it may have been a tour of the British Isles and North America. - Sticks  66  13:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Shall we pat ourselves on the back for the co-operative effort on this ? I think it's comming along swimmingly ! I wanted to ask if you know anything about the PD rationale for photos taken in the UK. I find the Australian PD rationale billiant and useful since basically any shot taken here pre-1955 is out of copyright and is fair game. But my understanding is the closest similar notion for UK photos is they come out of copyright 70 years after the death of the photographer. I find this not too helpful since even for players and events of pre-1910, I can't be sure that the rationale fits. Do you know of any other less onerous rationale for a UK photo being in the PD ? Rgds - Sticks  66  04:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Howell reference I use a lot says the team were supposed to play a test in France but it was cancelled due to inclement weather. Can you steer me to a photo you've uploaded with the PD1923 rationale. ? - Sticks  66  13:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * All the dates and match scores ? Have a look at this which I stumbled upon last night 1908 Rgds - Sticks  66  13:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Welsh political parties
The edit adding Labour and the Welsh Conservatives to the Wales page had been many added hours ago - nearly a day and a half. On a country page that's an eternity (I've been busy with real life things, and so hadn't seen it before). It is reasonable to expect anyone adding a link to the 'See also' section to add such links correctly. If they are not, those links should be removed. A red link in that section is unacceptable. I've no problem with Labour or the Welsh Conservatives' inclusion in that section (even though I'm not convinced that 'Welsh' Labour exist as an entity). I reverted the edit in its entirety, specifically to be non-political - I didn't feel I could just delete the Welsh Conservatives link and leave the Welsh Labour one. I am a bit disappointed that you reverted my rv, while making a point in the edit summary that made it look as if my rv had been politically motivated. It was not. I trust you will assume good faith in the future. Yours, Daicaregos (talk) 23:07, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Newton (Swansea)
Hi again! I don't really have suitable sources or pics on Newton, so will refrain from purely negative edits. I stayed at that other lovely place Norton which has one of my favourite pubs, the Beaufort (at right). I see it's been redirected to Mumbles (community) so it seems logical to do the same with Newton. I see that West Cross has also been bastardised, but not Oystermouth too heavily. The answer might be to incorporate Newton with Mumbles but place all the political articles' content in a new article, eg, Swansea (electoral wards). Cheers Bjenks (talk) 04:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Ireland v Wales at 2009 Six Nations
I'd like to point out that there's a page that explains why Merge and delete cannot be combined. It violates policy. - Mgm|(talk) 10:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Rhondda Cynon Taf
In fairness, Fruitmonkey, the debate has been ongoing for years. How on Earth does one reach an active consensus without first grabbing the bull by the horns? Is it not common consensus that if every last public body, item of literature, and media source (with the obvious exception of Wikipedia) uses certain terminology, then Wikipedia should follow suit? I do not see where the problem arises.--Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 18:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

You'll note that a discussion has been ongoing for quite some time - years, in fact. The most recent consensus has been agreement for "Taf" and a silence from those who shouted the loudest for the original status quo. I'm as a loss as to why this is not, as you call it, a "cut and dry" move. I have, however, restarted discussion on the RCT discussion page - although in reality, I sincerely doubt that anyone is as concerned as you seem to be. The county's name is "Rhondda Cynon Taf" - I don't quite see where the debate needs to begin!--Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 07:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

List of Wales national rugby union footballers
Hey man, I know this will be a big job, but would it be possible for you to replace the two "Name" columns in that list with one column and then use sortname to allow the names to be sorted by surname? – PeeJay 18:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good for the most part. Can I also suggest, if it doesn't break the transclusion limit, that you use dts in the date columns so that they sort properly? – PeeJay 10:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey dude, have you seen this page? Looks like it would be very useful for the list. – PeeJay 21:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Penarth
I see what you mean, but Penarth is not Liverpool. The Liverpool section mentions a series of individuals who are both very prominent in their own right and have strong associations with Liverpool. The Penarth list seemed to me to be more a collection of moderately prominent individuals who have had a vague connection with the town, and that's fine on the List page, but unnecessary on the town page, which I think is too long and cluttered. Perhaps a hard copy edit throughout is a better solution. Martinlc (talk) 13:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Rugby Strips
Hi Fruitmonkey. Most of the Welsh clubs have their colours already posted and there is only a minority that have articles that do not. I intend to go back and input the correct colours but in the meantime i thought it would be good for the minority outstanding to at least have some strip visible so that anyone else with an interest can correct them and save me some work. Cheers Pwimageglow (talk) 20:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Aha - thanks for the template. I hadnt seen that before, that will be a big help. Regards Pwimageglow (talk) 21:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Date of Death
The Death info you added for James Bridie (rugby player) isn't included in existing sources (that I can access), so I've removed the info. Do you have a source for these data?'' &mdash;C45207 | Talk 09:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tracking that down! &mdash;C45207 | Talk 21:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Glamorgan Wanderers RFC
Do you have a copy of the Rothmans Yearbook? If so, would you mind checking the ref for Glamorgan Wanderers RFC and let me know which page it's on please (& the year). I don't have a copy, so just put page 10 (on the Sport in Cardiff article). Thanks, Daicaregos (talk) 12:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that FruitMonkey. Best, Daicaregos (talk) 15:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Jack Rhapps
I'd say that definitely counts since it's been acknowledged that Trevor Allan who also made his cross-code int'l debut for Other Nats, is a DCI. And that would thus make Rhapps the first ever dual rugby code international. Brilliant. - Sticks  66  03:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Afraid I'm not doing much justice to the prompt of DCI names that you and Jeff are kindly adding to that section of my talk-page. Perhaps I'll add the untouched names to the talk-page of the article and there they'll be more accessible for any other participants. Rgds- Sticks  66  13:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

George Constantine (Archdeacon)
Hi FruitMonkey - just made some minor edits at the above; it's a really nice article. I wanted to check something with you, though. The article refers twice to events befalling Constantine in 1959, during the reign of Elizabeth I. That's plainly wrong, but I don't have the book you used as a source: any ideas what the right years should be? Gonzonoir (talk) 18:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The 16' Club
Thanks for helping with the recent cutting and vandalism of this page. The evolution of pages through gradual editing is one thing, but this last week the page has attracted a lot of destructive attention. I'm new to wikipedia though, and wonder what can be done to ensure progress and break the constant cycle of cut/vandalise and undo. Is there anything you would recommend? XVI Chancer (talk) 16:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hazpots seems to suggest some lack of dedication to improving articles. Do all those comments count as requests for the destructive activity to cease? If so, that's quite a collection... Is it time for pagelock/IPban stuff yet? I'm not really au fait with the requirements, let alone how it's done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by XVI Chancer (talk • contribs) 17:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. So is it a case of 'grin and bear it', and keep undoing the vandalism until the other person gets bored? I'm at a bit of a loss as to what one is supposed to do to ensure the healthy development of the article.XVI Chancer (talk) 17:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

The 90anon
I've posted a warning about the vandalism on the Braveheart page (which you caught, among other vandalism). I've watchlisted his page. If the nonsense continues, and I will add my name to the call for indef block. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  17:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Hollingdale
You recently changed the intro from

The Rev Thomas (Tom) Henry Hollingdale, AKC was a Church of England cleric and Welsh international rugby player.

to

Rev Thomas "Tom" Henry Hollingdale AKC (12 November 1900 - 14 April 1978), was a Church of England cleric and Wales international rugby player.

I believe the definite article before "reverend" is standard in English English. How about this?

The Rev Thomas "Tom" Henry Hollingdale AKC (12 November 1900 - 14 April 1978), was a Church of England cleric and international rugby player for Wales.

Rjm at sleepers (talk) 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)