User talk:FruitMonkey/Archive 3

1910 British Lions
Hi Fruitmonkey, I notice you've removed A Melville from the 1910 Lions squad and Newport RFC lions. Both the references on the wiki 1910 Lions page (BBC and Rugby football history) list him in the Lions squad and playing club rugby for Newport - though I haven't been able to find any other detail on him yet. Have you found any references suggesting he wasnt in the squad or who he was? Regards,Pwimageglow (talk) 19:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Crikey - you did well to spot that ! nice one. The story about the 8 Newport Lions on that tour has been publicised for years so any idea who the 8th might be ?. I assume Tommy Smyth is counted as the 7th Newport player as he didnt rejoin Malone until the tour ended. RegardsPwimageglow (talk) 19:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Horner
Hi FruitMonkey. I have checked the Welsh Encyclopedia entry and it is inaccurate with respect to both the date of his arrival in Dublin (1917 not 1916) and the reason for his arrest on his return to Britain ( it was for avoiding conscription, not for his Irish Citizens Army activities). So I'm going to replace this ref with chapter and verse from his autobiography, Incorrigible Rebel (as you suggest) Almanacer (talk) 20:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

re Horner retirement date - 1959 is in the autobiography and in the succession box. (He announced his retirement in 1958 - which is what misled me)  I don't think a specific ref is needed here. The existing reference for that line covers ther "terms and conditions" issue. Almanacer (talk) 12:33, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
BigDunc 22:21, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Arthur Gould
Thanks for your thanks! Trying to approach the article from the point of view of the casual reader with no great knowledge of RU, which is difficult. I knew a little of Gould's story and the controversy but not much and I have found the article enlightening.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well done for your work on that article and getting it to a much-deserved GA status - all credit to your efforts.--Bcp67 (talk) 18:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Wales years template
Well, it looks okay, but to me it's back to front - and it is a bit...er, BIG, isn't it? Why not ask on the Welsh wikipedians board for comments? Deb (talk) 16:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Pontypridd RFC
Hi Fruitmonkey, Please take some time to look at the amendments and changes I have made here: Pontypridd_RFC Many thanks --82.15.31.182 (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Would you be so kind as to give me an idea on how to separate the Club Shield and Sponsorship sections in a neat and concise way? At the moment, the latter infringes into the former's screen space. I'm at a loss.
 * Cheers.--Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 17:27, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, lovely! I've altered the text size, but it's a much better layout. Thanks again.
 * Any assistance you might be able to provide with table layouts would also be a great boost to the page. They are fairly hideous at the moment, and could do with a "spruce-up".--Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 18:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * How do I push for a B-class rating on the Quality Scale? I feel we're there, or thereabouts at the moment.--Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 08:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The new kit has been launched. Any help you can provide with producing adequate Wiki representations would be greatly appreciated!
 * Home kit
 * Away kit
 * Much obliged, as always.
 * --Monkeynuts2008 (talk) 21:00, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

George Thomas

 * x2 Mattlore (talk) 22:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

do you want to become an admin
i think you would make a good one let me know okOo7565 (talk) 22:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Denys Dobson

 * East Africa's on the front page today! Thanks for your help.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:40, 27 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "I've see mine get an appalling 200, to a healthy 13,000" - 14 so far LOL! Thanks for getting the Barbarian information (amongst other things). I'd totally overlooked it. There probably could be more on the Barbarians on wikipedia, but I get the impression that professionalism has sidelined them a bit.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:52, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I put poor Denys on the DYK on the RU portal. Along with Norman Biggs (dispatched by a poison arrow in Nigeria) and Idi Amin, it has a bit of an African flavour just now. (Although wouldn't it be better for everyone if Amin had just remained a sportsman?!) --MacRusgail (talk) 22:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Stout fellows
Do you have any evidence connecting the rugby player to the rower? Frank, born 1877, was the son of William Stout, an iron merchant born Brentford 1841 and living in Gloucester in 1881. If this is the rower, then the report of his death in 1874 does not apply to him. Regards Motmit (talk) 13:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks - looks as if the rower was the iron merchant. I give some credence to family accounts even though they are not generally an acceptable source. Also his rowing partner was the Long of Dorman Long. The death at sea must refer to someone else, even though he was recorded as visting China before 1868. Moxen (as on birth) or any variant does not have any rowing connection I am aware of. Regards Motmit (talk) 22:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

South Wales Valleys
Hi, after your sterling work on Rhondda I wondered if you'd be interested in having a look at a complementary article that needs attention, South Wales Valleys? I've started to have a go at some of it, but the whole thing needs a lot of work, and you seem to have some excellent sources at your disposal. Cheers. Pondle (talk) 13:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Accessdate parameter
I saw in this diff and this one that you added an "accessmonthday" and/or "accessdaymonth" parameter. Please be informed that these are deprecated. The preferred way is to put day, month, and year together in the "accessdate" parameter. See also Cite web. Thank you, Debresser (talk) 18:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you very much, it is good to know my work is appreciated.

I think we've probably got to try and concentrate on getting rugby articles better referenced just now. I think print sources (when we can get them) are better, as websites have a nasty habit of disappearing/moving. I got a copy of Huw Richards' "A Game for Hooligans" out of the library recently. It is superb, easily the best overview of rugby history I've ever seen. I can't recommend it highly enough. I'll be taking a few more citations from there, as it seems a respectable source, and should provide some good info on the likes of Italy, Argentina and North America. Its only weakness is that it doesn't really discuss sevens, HK barely and the Dubai Sevens not at all.

That and the other thing being that I think I need to "blitz" Scottish rugby content at some point.--MacRusgail (talk) 23:08, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Greenock Wanderers RFC
Hi there. Sorry for having undone your edit, you logged it while I was sourcing so we ended up with a conflict. You are absolutely right, 1910 was not the first Lions tour to South Africa (and I don't know why I left that in the first time I edited the page). However, it was the first tour to represent all the four Home Countries as per the British and Irish Lions page, so I recreated your edit and adjusted it to say so. Thanks! McMarcoP (talk) 09:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC) edited to add linebreaks McMarcoP (talk) 09:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Article
Hello! Your submission of Article at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Ironholds (talk) 14:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Cardiff Arms Park
Hi there - could you give me your opinion on what the correct name for the Welsh national stadium should be in the Arms Park days? I know it was known as the National Stadium in its later years but the article says it was only officially opened under that name as late as 1984. Any thoughts?--Bcp67 (talk) 08:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I'll continue to link venues for international games to Cardiff Arms Park#National Stadium then, and for club matches just to Cardiff Arms Park. I see you've picked up John Griffith's 1982 book of England internationals - that one's in my loft somewhere! At the moment I'm mostly working on the bare details of 70s tours from my collection of Rothmans yearbooks. --Bcp67 (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Alexander Roper Vidler article, thank you and reference
Thank you for the work you have done on Alexander Roper Vidler. I had a moment's difficulty finding the article as I was looking for Alec Vidler, so after verifying that he is commonly know as both Alec Vidler and Alec R. Vidler, I created those redirects. Then looking at Special:WhatLinksHere/Alexander Roper Vidler I saw that Alec Vidler was already linked to from a couple of places, including WikiProject Anglicanism/To-do.

I also wanted to mention a possible source, David Michael Thompson's Cambridge theology in the nineteenth century: enquiry, controversy and truth, viewable at
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=xlAE4o_U4ZwC&q=vidler

which discusses the 1962 Objections to Christian Belief Cambridge lectures with Bezzant, Vidler, Williams, and MacKinnon which, undoubtedly, led to the publication of the book of the same name. -- ToET 12:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

GAN notice
Hi FruitMonkey, you currently have at least one article up a WP:GAN in the Sports and recreation section. In an attempt to clear out the backlog there, User:Wizardman asked all sports WikiProjects to review at least two articles from that section. I'm now going around and asking anybody with an article nominated under Sports and recreation to review at least one article in that section to help us clear the backlog out so your articles can finally be reviewed faster!  iMatthew  talk  at 15:07, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

More rugby ground trivia!
In linking venues for Aberavon RFC matches I'm not sure whether the Talbot Athletic Ground should properly be described as being in Aberavon or Port Talbot. Any advice? Yours, pedantically...--Bcp67 (talk) 08:02, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the local knowledge --Bcp67 (talk) 09:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Harry Dolan Referee 1904 Great Britain v Northern District
Hi Fruitmonkey, I am newish to wikipedia so please bear with me. Much of the information on the net and in articles I've seen about this game are patchy with little or no research,just repeating old myths. Information from Newspaper articles such as 'The Sydney Sportsman July 13th 1904' tell the facts. Harry Dolan was an experienced and respected referee in Newcastle(N.S.W.).(His name was not Hugh as some sites say) Bedell-Sivright played in this match,(not out with a broken leg)He was the one who led his team off in protest. Rugby History,like any History is only as accurate as those who record it,which is why wikipedia is such a great tool for inserting the facts.

Cheers Nimmo1879 (talk) 15:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a special interest in this match because my Grandfather played for Northern District(and Australia) and was one of the 5 Northern District players that were involved in the official inquiry into the 'Dobson Incident'.Which is why I started my research into exactly what took place. Cheers Nimmo1879 (talk) 13:03, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Fruitmonkey,

Bernat-Salles
Thank you for your assessment on Philippe Bernat-Salles. I will try to follow your advice, although I've already been trying to deepen and source the pat about his club career. Well, at least it's not a stub any longer... McMarcoP (talk) 09:52, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Bedell-Sivright's broken leg
G'Day Fruitmonkey Ihave been doing some checking through my archives The 1904 match reports put Bedell-Sivright's leg injury in mid July before the Second Test against Australia.He played in the final Match of the tour against New South Wales at the end of August.This is approx 6 weeks.This leads me to think it is unlikely that his leg was broken. Cheers Nimmo1879 (talk) 15:39, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

1888 British Isles tour
Bore da Fruitmonkey, about the picture you uploaded - File:1888 British Lions.jpg - does it by any chance have a key to who each of the players are? I'm trying to work out which one is AP Penketh. Diolch yn fawr --MacRusgail (talk) 14:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC) p.s. Read your article Mahmood Hussein Mattan, very interesting.


 * Thanks, my plan is to use a detail of the picture to illustrate the rugby union in the Isle of Man article. I don't think Penketh necessarily merits an article in his own right.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

John Dyke
I've no doubt you're correct on this, but have you got a source for John Dyke playing for Penarth rather than Cardiff? Both Clem Thomas's history of the Lions and the Rothmans yearbooks list him as a Cardiff player for the 1908 tour (although one could merely be a repeat of the other), while the list of Welsh internationals in Rothmans shows him as (Cardiff and Penarth) while winning his Welsh caps in 1910 and 1911. --Bcp67 (talk) 18:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds pretty conclusive!--Bcp67 (talk) 18:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK potential: David Davies (Dai'r Cantwr)?
Prof Williams' article at the National Library of Wales is packed with interesting goodies (which unfortunately I don't have time to explore just now myself). But, in the meantime, here's something to help you on your way:

Books on Llanelli
Can you recommend me any decent books on Llanelli RFC during the 50s and 60s? Thanks --MacRusgail (talk) 15:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I appreciate your advice. It's mainly to look up the story of their visit to Moscow (where they played against a Romanian side, and apparently caused a wee bit of a "stooshie"!)--MacRusgail (talk) 13:03, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again, I appreciate your taking the time to investigate this matter. The Soviet article should be up in the next two months. (I gave it a bit of a rest) I have added some new material, and also have two more sources to investigate, one of them being the Russian language articles on rugby (which if Babelfish won't oblige, I'll read with my head half in the dictionary!)

Anyway, Nadolig Llawen and hope you have a good New Year!--MacRusgail (talk) 16:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Rouge test
Check the talk page, thanks for your eyeballs. JoeSmack Talk 06:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

List of xxxx national rugby union footballers
Thanks for the explanation on the previous consensus about the naming standard. Any chance you could refer me to that discussion so I can get clued up on how you guys got there? Cheers! - Sahmejil (talk) 16:19, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Cambridge University notable players
I had a look at the changes which you made to the "notable players" section of the Cambridge University R.U.F.C.. I think its absolutely right to have a properly defined criteria for notable players rather than a vague list, but isn't it worth also recording those players who went on to international careers after playing for Cambridge (or Oxford for that matter)? I've got no particular axe to grind for the universities (never went to any!!) but they were a significant source of talent in the amateur era and I feel it ought to be recognised somewhere. What do you reckon?--Bcp67 (talk) 21:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair point - if a list of all the future internationals gets added to the CU article, it becomes a short article about the club plus an enormous list of players!--Bcp67 (talk) 09:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That'd be Tipperary Tim, then - famous National winner! According to one of my most reliable sources bred by a guy called Jack Ryan - does that tie in with your details? Most of the horse racing stuff is carried out by virtually one excellent editor, the industrious and profilic Zafonic - I still chip in sporadically but I have more written sources about rugby union than horse racing so I've tended to go that way in the last couple of years.--Bcp67 (talk) 09:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

North-South divide (Wales)
Given your focus on Wales in general and the Valleys in particular, I'd welcome your input on the talk page if you're interested.--Pondle (talk) 12:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Bethel Solomons
Thanks for expanding this article. Plenty of interesting info there other than the rugby stuff. Before reading about him in Encyclopedia Judaica, I wasn't aware of him. --MacRusgail (talk) 14:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Launcelot Percival (crazy name, crazy guy)
Easy mistake to make. I'll go and check it for DYK purposes now. I have a feeling that clerical titles aren't meant to be used in the lead sentence, but I'm not sure, so I'll see if I can find something in MOS that says one way or the other. BencherliteTalk 10:12, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Happy coincidence: I'd forgotten that I'd started the article about his dad, and got a DYK for it – "... that John Percival, when headmaster of Rugby School, gained the nickname "Percival of the knees" because he was concerned about "impurity" and insisted that boys secure their football shorts below the knee with elastic?" BencherliteTalk 10:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Spotted your edit, and saw it at DYK, but didn't immediately link the two and had forgotten I'd written about Dad. I didn't do much, someone else found more stuff about him in the Gazette and added that.  Nice little article, btw.  BencherliteTalk 16:36, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Rhymney article improvement
Hi! I've added a few bits of info to the Rhymney page over the last few months and today I expanded the information on the Idris Davies/Pete Seeger song "The Bells of Rhymney" considerably and gave it a separate section within the article. I notice that you've also been fairly active in the upkeep of this page over the last year or so and I wondered whether you would be interested in helping to improve the article with me?

The biggest problem I can currently see is an almost total lack of inline references for the article (with the exception of the "Bells of Rhymney" section which I've taken care of). If we can find some decent, 3rd party references we can get rid of the "Refimprove" tag currently on the page. I notice from the article's edit history that you were the person who added the Welsh Academy Encyclopaedia of Wales reference. I assume that this means you are in possession of this book? If so, perhaps other information in the article can be verified with it and inline citations duly added. Myself, I don’t own any resources for finding references but I'm more than willing to help find reliable web based references. Anyway, let me know w what you think about this. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 23:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Llandow Kart Club
Hi FruitMonkey. Thanks for advising WikiProject:Motorsport and WikiProject:British Motorsport of the existence of Llandow Kart Club. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 01:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Frank Stout
I have no idea what I am douing as I am completely new to all this! but it appears that you have an interest in Frank Stout MM. I have a photograph of him with my Grandfather George Tester if you would be interested to see it?

Helicreature@btinternet.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helicreature (talk • contribs) 12:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

New Page Patrolling
Hi. I note that you are also tagging a number of articles created by Widavies at present. For your information, I have requested some admin assistance to try to resolve this. Cheers. Gilo  &ouml;  10:04, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

A note of thanks
Thanks for the barnstar, I didn't expect it. It's nice to know my edits are appreciated.--Pondle (talk) 12:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)