User talk:Ful Mudammas

Hi. Feel free to leave a message here. Can't guarantee I'll respond, since I'm lazy, distracted and busy, but you can always hope.--Ful Mudammas (talk) 19:10, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Salamo Arouch
Hi. Since we're leaving the topic of article improvement and generally talking about the subject, I figured I'd better move my answer to a more personal venue. :) You said, "I just assumed he got more." I would usually assume that, too. I figured I would look into it in case there was something to substantiate your concerns. I wouldn't ordinarily speculate per WP:BLP, but we're reasonably safe here. :) I might guess that Razon had the same trouble an investigative journalist might have: lack of records. But who knows? $30,000 isn't a big enough settlement to presume that the filmmakers were quietly admitting guilt (like, say, $10 million would have been). They could have tossed some money at him just to make him go away. But you intrigue me with your mention of "dancing guard dogs". Was that in some obituary you read or was that in the movie? What did Arouch say about dancing guard dogs? I'm dying to know. I'll watch here in case you'd like to discuss this further. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:53, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It was in the People magazine article. Juggling Gypsies and dancing dogs.



"Arouch won that fateful round against a hapless Polish Jew, and from that time until the evacuation of Auschwitz in January 1945, he would win roughly 200 times again in the Nazi's appalling blood sport. The rules at the matches, often preceded by juggling Gypsies and dancing dogs, were always the same: 'We fought until one went down or they got sick of watching,' says Arouch. 'They wouldn't leave until they saw blood.' "


 * The obituary at Telegraph.Co.UK repeats the dancing dogs comment and lists yet more questionable details.



"Adopting a traditional style of jabbing and crossing, by 1939 he had an unbeaten record with 24 knockouts. His fancy footwork earned him the nickname 'The Ballet Dancer', and before the outbreak of war he was reportedly a member of the Greek Olympic boxing team."


 * Greek Olympic boxing team? Really?  This shouldn't be hard to verify, if Greece even had an Olympic boxing team then.  But I wouldn't waste much time trying, because there were no Olympics held between 1936 and 1948.


 * Boxrec.com also adds to this a claim of his having won the "Middleweight Championships of Greece and the Balkan States".  I'd love to find out what sanctioning organization handed that out.  As I mentioned on the discussion page of his article, Greece didn't even recognize modern boxing as a sport until the 1950's.  I'm not aware that such titles ever existed, much less of Arouch holding any such things.


 * BoxRec.com also mentions other boxers who died at Auschwitz... Victor "Young" Perez, Leone Efrati, and Kid Francis. A notable difference between these fighters and both Arouch and his friend Razon, or even Klaus Silber, is that these fighters are documented, with actual period pictures of them as fighters and some sort of researchable information on their records being available, as one would expect.  There's more, but with all the holes already showing up in his story, is it worth bothering to punch yet more?--Ful Mudammas (talk) 20:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks. I didn't remember that from the People article (it's been a long time). I must admit when working on it I found myself wondering. I was careful to indicate that "According to Arouch, he was undefeated at Auschwitz" and "Salarmo fought over 200 matches at his estimation". I had no idea that the very premise of the story might be suspect. :/ Seeing all the press he got on dying, I'm surprised that some source hasn't questioned the details. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 21:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)