User talk:Funeral/Archive 3

Slash
Mr Pickle added his image again. I can't touch it because of the prot. 156.34.210.6 (talk) 00:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Ready to bring down another list? (or 15)
Previous AfD was a success so take a look at this LONG and drawn out title ... List of British hard rock and heavy metal musical groups or performers. I can almost guarantee overwhelming support to delete that one. (maybe even a whopping 5 or even 6 votes :D ) 156.34.210.6 (talk) 11:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've started the AfD - Articles for deletion/List of British hard rock and heavy metal musical groups or performers. Funeral 17:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks. Anons can't do AfD's or I would've done it m'self. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 18:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hoist the colours :). I see you noticed the false edit summary too :D . Anyone thinking that to be a witty approach would only be half right :D. Cheers! 156.34.230.166 (talk) 22:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

User:John even told him about WP:FLAG on his talk page earlier today. O_o Funeral 22:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ... You just beat me to it! :-D Funeral 22:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Stampeding pov and ignoring consensus is one thing... but I've never liked stalkers and trolls. But I've been here forever and I've learned how to ignore them. Mainly because I came to the understanding long ago that I am always right... and anyone who's opinion differs from mine is always wrong. It makes it a lot easier to function here knowing that simple fact :D . 156.34.230.166 (talk) 22:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Three deletes, no keeps for the list of British hard rock etc. bands. I've added Articles for deletion/List of industrial metal musical groups too. Funeral 15:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

You're on a roll. No editor dedicated to superfluity cleanup will ever choose list over category. Your AfD reasoning can't be any simpler or more straight-forward. Here ya go... Category:Lists of metal bands... minus the actual HM bands list which has a true lead-in and refs and everything... I'd say AfD 'em all. 156.34.142.110 16:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * One more. I don't want to do too many AfD's at once, though. Some of the extreme metal styles will probably get support from certain editors who are pretty active on those lists. Funeral 17:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

For your fine work in editing "the lists"

 * Thanks :-) I'll get on that AfD soon, I feel ill right now so I'll do it in a few hours. Funeral 15:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Question
Bestial Warlust - What do you think of that article? Scar ian Talk  23:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It might just be a poorly written article, I'll look into the band a little bit before commenting further. Funeral 23:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, just out of interest... have you read the inclusion criterion for an ensemble in WP:MUSIC? Read the article and then run through the checklist... [I'll explain in 5 days time] Scar ian  Talk  23:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you should look at the deletion page again Funeral. You may find something interesting there. A rather huge flaw in your theory that has one small silly little solution.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 00:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * sighs again I'm beginning to get depressed... Okay, so here's the deal... just because an article was not deleted does not make it notable. It is the opinion of 2-3 editors who seem to think it is notable. *sighs* Well I can be happy with the fact that I'm old enough to drink and he isn't. Scar ian  Talk  00:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You both should look again on the deletion page and newly added links. Also I am old enough to drink Scarian...lol  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 00:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

User page and Appetite for Destruction
Hi, if you would like I will re-direct your user page to here. I just thought that I would ask first. Also would you like to help promote AFD to a better status? Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 23:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't own it, but I here it is really good. I also saw it on the talk page. Did you watch the new GNR biography? I haven't yet but I have it recorded. The only reason I asked is because your user page is red on my watchlist, I just thought I would ask. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 00:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds great. Now I really want it, lol. GNR is a current GAC. Sorry about that, I made the assumption that you were American. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 00:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Another editor misundertanding the 'arena'
Can you watch Styx and List of genres of music: A-F? User 98percenthuman (who also edits as 66.32.X.X) is having trouble understanding the difference between genre and term. I suspect some other "key" arena rock bands have the same faux pas in their infobox genre fields. I cleaned some of the obvious ones... Boston, Journey, Foreigner + a few others. But I can't watch 'em all. plus there are many more to be corrected. I just pick off a few each day. 156.34.142.110 15:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed arena rock from every music infobox, there weren't that many. Btw, should I move the 'list of genres of music' pages to 'list of music styles' or something like that? They're mostly styles and subs. Funeral 17:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll say yes to that. I've been cleaning up some of the incorrect categories. Just a few more to do. 156.34.222.110 19:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Forget I said that. I just found a musically impaired user who doesn't understand genres and categories. See. Help me rv him would ya. 156.34.222.110 20:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not musicaly impared, I can tell a sound when I hear it and I can site souces., , . Andrzejbanas 20:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Links # 2 and 3 dont meet WP:RS and All Music Guide labels Arena rock as a "style" and not a genre. Look at any Artist or album on AMG... Arena rock is never listed under genre... only style. 156.34.222.110 20:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You have yet to find sources for me proving it's not a style however...Andrzejbanas 20:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, all music clearly says in large letter above the description "Genre". Andrzejbanas 20:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * When AMG use the term to describe a band, they always list it under 'style' not 'genre', an example is Aerosmith's AMG page. Funeral 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Pick another example... like Journey. Rock is listed as the genre... the rest are listed as styles. And it doesn't correctly identify which albums fall under which style? Journey's first few albums were progressive rock(sort of) as well as hard rock. 156.34.222.110 20:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, let's stop the reverting war for now. If we want it discussed the actual article for Arena rock up for discussion for deletion. Andrzejbanas 20:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * We've been working hard to distinguish Arena rock away from actual genres. The article has been trimmed by a different editor. The text is "getting there" but it needs a lot of work to get it into line. Several editors besides Funeral and myself have been slowly trying to weed out Wiki's serious "overkill" of fairytale genres. Arena rock was an easier target since it's almost self explanitory... it's simply rock or hard rock(a genre and it's sub-genre)... thats played in an arena setting. Stadium rock, Corporate rock... just terms and not genres. 156.34.222.110 20:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

So what would you call the overtly produced tracks of Foreigner or Loverboy? And it's a strech to call it a negatively named genre, people have associated "bad music" with genre's as simple to heavy metal, emo, punk rock, hair metal, dixieland jazz and soft rock, it's a matter of opinion if one is worse then another and Arena rock is actually a lot of fun now that it's era has passed. Why not take time to fix other genre cats up such as "Category:Sludgecore albums", "Category:Epic metal albums", or the worst offender "Category:Yatch rock albums"? Andrzejbanas 20:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * "Overly produced"???(ahem... po... ahem... v.... ahem :D )  Arena rock today, Sludgecore tomorrow, Epic metal the day after that... All these fairytale genres weren't plugged into Wiki in a day. And they won't get flushed away in a day either :D. We just need more shovels :D 156.34.222.110 20:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As a side note... Admin Wiki alf has been trying to push the musicians project to delete all sub-genres from music articles and go with just the "top" of the chain genre... Rock, Jazz, Blues, Country... etc.... and leave the styles for the article main content. Reasoning is that editors get bogged down in edit wars over genres and no real work gets done. More input into that conversation would be great. In the end... every band you added the arena rock cat. to today... is just a rock band in the end. And Wiki alf is hoping to more editors in line to that train of thought and get the battles away from the infoboxes. 156.34.222.110 20:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey Funeral... sorry for using your talk page as a chat room :D. I am not at my static IP address so I can't use my own right now. 156.34.222.110 20:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Found another "term" being bombed into Wiki as a genre... Rock opera. Check the list of "what links here". Loads of albums have this term plowed into the infobox as a genre. I overuse the label "musically impaired" WAY too often here so I won;t use it to describe the editors that have pumped rock opera into these articles. 156.34.226.252 14:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed it from all infoboxes. Btw, are IPs allowed to vote in AfDs? Weren't you told to make an AfD once when a speedy was declined, so surely you can discuss them then? Funeral 21:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I.P.'s aren't allowed to !vote on anything (RfA's, XfD's etc.) but they can still discuss and give their views. It's just that most I.P.'s are looked upon as vandals or socks. Some of it is "Anti-Anon" bias, whilst some of it is common to sense to prevent votestacking etc. Scar ian  Talk  22:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I was allowed to vote in the Motorhead Feature Article debate. But I was invited to do so (not many IPs get that) I voted from my static page so there wouldn't be any whining. But Scarian is right. I have been invited many times to AfD an article that I tried to Speedy Delete... even though I can't actually make an AfD. IPs are blocked from doing this. Which is good in a way cause if I could... I'd be AfD'ing a 100 articles a day :D. 156.34.232.128 (talk) 23:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS... BTW... Thanks for chipping in on the Rock Opera thing. I peeked at categories for it. Cats aren't like genres and some are legit. I cleaned a few "Concept" albums that had Rock opera for a category. Concept albums and rock operas are 2 different things and many Wiki editors get the 2 confused. Again... thanks you your help! 156.34.232.128 (talk) 23:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * On the AfD front. Can I suggest another list to kill? List of doom metal bands just repeats Category:Doom metal musical groups. No refs. Some of the acts on the list aren't legit. Playing heavy metal S-L-O-W-L-Y... does not make a band doom. Black Sabbath is on the list??????... thats just wrong. :D It's an easy target. 156.34.232.128 (talk) 23:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Got time to do Black metal? I'd say Death metal too but I am still using that list to cleanup the flagcruft. :D 156.34.232.128 (talk) 00:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Answer
Who's Dr. Rock and what are his credentials? If it were Lester Bangs or Cub Koda I'd say yes. Is metalstorm a fansite or webzine? 156.34.222.110 20:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Josh Allain
Hi, I saw your warning on his talk page. On Build a Nation, he's changed the All Music Guide rating 3 times. The album was rated 3.5 stars but he keeps changing it 4 stars. I warned him on his talk page after the second time, but he just ignored it. Will you do something about it please, maybe block him? Cheers. Funeral 17:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've blocked him for a week, but in future you should make reports like this at WP:AIV or WP:AN because any admin could have dealt with this and by using the noticeboards an admin is likely to see it quicker than I reply to my talk page. Stifle (talk) 20:05, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ?? There is a message telling the user he's blocked... but his block log doesn't indicate any new blocks? I have dealt with this abuse editor many times in the past (look at all the warnings on his page... they're all from 156 :D ) He should have been permanently blocked months ago. Sigh!... if only I had the banhammer... Wiki'd be perfect. :D . 156.34.226.252 20:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Godsmack
Hi, would you please talk some sense into User:Demantos. He is trying to merge Godsmack discography with Godsmack. Godsmack has enough music to warrent a seperate article for discography, and any substantially successful band has one on wikipedia. Please comment on his talk page, and comment here.

Thank you,

Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 01:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC) Thank you, Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 03:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you comment on this please.
 * Done. Nice job on that article! Funeral 23:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Quit
Stop harassing me. If you change my talk page again, I will report you. Deathbringer from the Sky (talk) 19:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, go ahead. Funeral 19:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

how can I vandalise my own page? Deathbringer from the Sky (talk) 19:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh
I don't understand. Why are you only taking down certain lists? I mean I kinda understand the doom metal list, but why the black metal one? And why not the death or thrahs metal page? If you're gonna go for a couple then why aren't you going for others?  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 19:11, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll AfD all the lists, don't worry. I'm just taking a few random lists at the moment. Funeral 19:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Why do you want to bring the lists down? To what purpose, to what end? I don't understand that. If I did, I might even be on your side.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 19:34, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Because they're redundant, cats serve much better than a hard-to-maintain list. How many red links have to be removed in these lists every day? And cats are still better than lists, and you don't have to maintain them at all. Read WP:LC. Funeral 19:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Some light reading
Your AfD's are valid. Don't let the cabal deter your efforts. The actual HM bands list is a bit more than just a list and would likely survive an AfD anyways. The Thrash metal list is also a bit more than just a list and would likely survive an AfD as well. As far as the current debates go. Your noms are becoming the subject of some serious WP:CANVAS vios by the Circusflexus bloke. Not sure if thats an ANI query but it may be an RFC?? I am not around much due to network glitches. I will follow up with you later. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 20:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You and I survived another tirade at ANI :-D - I'll help you follow up those canvas leads with Circa. Scar ian  Talk  20:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Navnlos' sock puppetry
In defense of Navnlos, i would say the accusation is invalid. Not only was it added by an IP, also no page containing the list of suspected puppets was created. I think you should either create it, but only if you have reason to believe that there is something to it, or let him delete it. Even a rude user who ignores policy shouldn't be affected by actions that seem to be bad faith. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 21:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Navnløs - I've created the list (I think); not 100% sure if I have done it correctly though! Btw, from the edit summaries... they're so clear to me at least. Navnlos: and Death: . Both of them have used "noted" in their edit summaries after removing comments from their talk page. Am I seriously that paranoid? Or is it just very suspicious behaviour? It's also ironic that Death has never come to me complaining about the sockpup. tags and neither has Navnlos...  Scar ian  Talk  12:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * PS. The cat won't stay too long, I suspect. If you create an RCU request then the list/category whatever will be created following the case. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 13:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you guys think we have enough evidence? Scar ian  Talk  15:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I think we've got plenty of evidence, their edit summaries and uploads give it away. Funeral 16:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you provide more diff's? As of now, I am still unconvinced. Also, I do not think that the process will pass on circumstantial evidence like that. Consider trying a WP:RCU. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 17:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * - That's the same IP range Navlos used here. Funeral 19:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This binds this IP to Navnlos, but where is the connection from the IP to User:Deathbringer from the Sky? ~ | twsx | talkcont | 06:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The IP which edited Deathbringer's userpage is the same IP range which Navlos has used before. If you do a Whois, you'll see that both IPs are from the Los Rios Community College District. Funeral 13:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh my! :-O That's so painfully obvious now... we don't even need a checkuser! Thank you Funeral! Scar ian Talk  17:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, Funeral. I've cleaned up the sandbox a bit... I'll speak to an admin with checkuser capabilities to see if they think we have enough evidence. I would appreciate any sort of help cleaning it up and making it look more presentable. Thanks for all your help so far! Scar ian  Talk  18:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

We're good to go. Scar ian Talk  20:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, you've got me too now. Let's see how that goes. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 10:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's been confirmed. He evaded his 3RR block twice. Deathbringer is his sock account. Good work y'all tracking this guy down. Scar ian Talk  19:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Great... The Deathbringer account has been blocked indefinitely. I'm assuming Navlos will get a block too? Funeral 21:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, unfortunately. He got a warning and was told to calm down when in conflict. No doubt excuses will be made. We just have to keep our eyes open again... Keep up the good work, Funeral. I owe you a barnstar (I'll find you a nice one later on). Scar ian  Talk  21:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is an outrage!... Just look at how he responds afterwards, he just removes the section without addressing it in any way, he's lucky the admin was so lenient. And you did most of the work so I'll be giving you a barnstar soon. :-) Funeral 23:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sign of guilt right there. *sighs happily* - You know... maybe he'll calm down from now on? Let's just hope so. I'm gonna toddle off to bed. Take care of yourself Funners (Can I call you Funners from now on? That'd be such a lovely nickname for you :-D)! Night night! Scar ian  Talk  00:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure.. :-S Good night! Funeral 00:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Another "non-genre" article as bad as the Arena rock article
Take a look at Anthem rock and see what you think. I prodded it. It could just be re-directed to Hard rock or the parent Rock music page... I think anyways. 156.34.213.120 (talk) 00:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS keep an eye on Template:Rock. WesleyDodds is having a POV struggle. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 12:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of 'anthem rock' before, maybe a redirect would be better, I'm not sure. Btw, I moved all the "List of music genres: A-G" etc. pages earlier. While I was doing it, I saw this... Does it make any sense to you? Funeral 15:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Confusing collection? Lots of red links. Some sem worthy, some seem make believe. I'd have to look at the history and discussion on it to see why it was created and what prupose it serves. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 18:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * One more question: Do you know why Articles for deletion/List of industrial metal musical groups hasn't been closed yet? Funeral 15:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope? If it's time is up it'll likely be done... just slipping through the cracks for now. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 18:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
for the revert. That IP is a returning banned user, that doesn't seem to like me very much! Gee I wonder why? :P Thanks again. Happy edting. Knowledge Of Self |  talk  16:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Some Wikipedia processes are just goofy
Two valid crufty-lists are gone... but the doomy black lists (the strongest of the noms so far and easliy/equally useless space occupiers) will likely stick? A successful deletion last month for "List of nu metal musicians"... did you notice the duplicate article List of nu metal bands??? How did they both exist at the same time??? I am not surprised at some of the keep votes simply because their "voters" have a musical IQ of nil... but at least one keep vote amongst both the doom and black lists votes came from an editor who usually leans towards quality, class and encyclopedic integrity. And then they went and allowed their internal 12 year old fanboy to take over and they voted 'keep'??? No one ever put forth a valid argument in any of the 'keep' votes. They all just basically said "me likey, likey!" Still... 2 (and I guess 3 counting last month) pieces of Wiki-shite are gone. So at least some good has come of it all. Kudos to you for your ongoing struggle to "turn up the good, turn down the suck". Wikipedia needs more editors like you. 156.34.216.38 (talk) 02:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment
I'd like to tap your 'inner editor" and get your 2 cents worth on the "Proposed Remake of the Page" discussion on the Talk:Black Sabbath page. I have long hoped that a group of editors would grab hold of that article and hack away all the "written by a 12 year old" content from it. I just worry that the final product will be no better then what already there. Never wanting to pick on any editor specifically for the editing gaffs... but a certain editor, who I won't name other then to say the name ends in 'oid' started out with poor writing skills... and has never improved despite thousands of edits. The Black Sabbath article is just one in a huhe crop of pages that have enough background and external sourcing from books and documentaries to become a Featured Article. But it's always been a voctim of "too many cooks". 156.34.142.110 (talk) 17:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * PS I did the A's only 25 more letters to go... phew! Somedays there just aren't enough rocks. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 19:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * S to Z are done. :-| Funeral 19:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You've sent some interesting text back to the Mister Rogers land of Make-Believe. If you come across a genre called Librarian lap-dance... don't touch it... it's a real, honest to goodness genre that... .. just kidding :D . Bye-bye fairy-tale red links. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 19:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Regarding citations
Can you specify what sort of citations you want? Like whether the band has played thrash, or like a citation for every thrash album included in the article? Weltanschaunng 18:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, well that's gonna take some time, eh, but yeah will try to do everything I can. On another note, do you find something wrong with the article? For certain bands, the bullets are absent. I checked the code, reloaded a few times, but to no avail. I am sure it wasn't there before. Maybe its my browser, can you have a look? Weltanschaunng 18:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I was on firefox, and now I've tried it using IE as well. The problem persists. I am sure it wasn't there before, for I would have noticed the skewness. Anyway, I will look up for citations as you say. Is Allmusic guide ok? I myself disagree with AMG's genre classification, so I just wanted to know if it's ok. Weltanschaunng 18:23, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, that seems manageable. However, the description part is tricky. I tried Rolling Stone for citation of the snippet I added, I couldn't find the word 'thrash' on that page. Can you tell me some sites that I can use for such form of citations? Weltanschaunng 18:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I added citations for annihilator, after which surfaced goof-ups (by me), well that's another story. Well, this is my real concern: Do I really have to added citations for all albums? there are atleast 100 bands on the list, and on average five albums per band. This means like 500 citations, won't it get a bit cluttered? I hope you see my concern. Weltanschaunng 12:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
For the vandal assist.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 23:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As for what you said on WP:ANI - First, AMG has been shown to be unreliable for genres at times. Second, I didnt say they weren't doom. It's already covered and been talked about. Paradise Lost was death/doom and eventually changed to gothic metal.  The genre box says death/doom so theres no reason to put doom metal.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 23:30, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * On ANI, you said, "He keeps changing the genres he thinks Pardise Lost is."... He wasn't wrong in doing that - you need to WP:AGF more - sources say they are doom metal, AMG meets WP:RS, btw. There was no reason call this edit vandalism in your edit summary, It may have been unhelpful because doom metal is already in the infobox (Even though it isn't - death/doom is.) but it wasn't vandalism. Funeral 23:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what is your problem?
Its my user talk page, not yours. Polish motor crew (talk) 15:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean you can remove valid vandalism warnings. Funeral 15:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Not a cleanup?... I hate anti-anon prejudice. When editors adds stupid uncited stuff... an edit summary that says cleanup is pretty much all it needs. Unless, of course, some anal editor spies it and takes offence that the edit summary wasn't a paragraph. I should have just put 'rv'. :D. Again, thanks for the undo/redo. Have a nice day! 156.34.142.110 (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem at all... Have a nice day too! :-) Funeral 16:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)