User talk:FunkMonk/Archive 6

Bashar Al-Assad
Are you able to check the lead in Bashar Al-Assad article? I suppose you know more about him then me, so you are able to make better lead by fixing mine. Ofcourse, you are not considered obliged to do that.

Cheers!

-- Wusten  fuchs  22:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, can't see any glaring omissions. Maybe there could be something about differences between his rule and his father's? FunkMonk (talk) 05:44, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Never mind... other authors claim its neutrality is questionable. -- Wusten  fuchs  17:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Some will call it questionable until the intro states he is Hitler reincarnated. FunkMonk (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Alawi article
Hi FunkMonk,

I notice that this edit added in two places... but there is no reference that has the name Moubayed! Maybe I am missing something... but the article currently has a red warning in it.

Is this a reference that you intended to add but didn't?

I notice that you also added which didn't have reference info at the time but then later became

Yaris678 (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, those refs were used in sections I copied from the Saleh al-Ali article. I think the full refs can be found there... FunkMonk (talk) 02:53, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * ...but your too busy to tidy it up? I have done it.  Yaris678 (talk) 12:06, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, usually bots do it (find full refs on other pages), I thought the bot had done something already. FunkMonk (talk) 16:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Aylesbury duck
I've undone this edit on Aylesbury duck. A lot of people think "Aylesbury duck" refers to any kind of white duck, and whoever uploaded it to Commons has miscategorised the photo - they're clearly Pekin ducks, not Aylesburys (see the orange bill and upright posture; Aylesburys are enormously large, have a very squat build and a bright pink bill, and look more like short-necked swans). As far as I know, we don't have any images of true Aylesburys, which are exceptionally rare (there's only one surviving flock in the country). The 1873 drawing is used for a reason; that was the last year before other breeds began to interbreed with the Aylesbury flock, and thus the image shows all the characteristics of the idealised pure Aylesbury strain. – iridescent  12:23, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, no problem! And thanks for the info. FunkMonk (talk) 12:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Aurochs-like breeds
I wrote "selection" because there is no definite number of aurochs-like breeds since the point from which a cattle breed is considered aurochs-like is subjective. Friesians are aurochs-like compared to water buffaloes, but not compared to primitive iberian breeds etc. Until an author composites a list of aurochs-like breeds which we could cite, it is necessarily only a selection since there is no strict definition of the content, I'd say. -- DFoidl (talk) 20:14, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, but isn't it a selection by default then? Instead of a published list, we know which breeds that have been specifically described as aurochs-like, and can add those. They'd be a selection in any case, no? FunkMonk (talk) 20:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * By the way, nice picture of the maronesa, but there is a chance that it will get deleted, because it is not enough to write you have permission, in most cases you have to do this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS FunkMonk (talk) 15:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Mušḫuššu renamed to Mushussu?
"I believe such characters are not supposed to be used in titles." Where does that come from? Also, š = sh and ḫ = kh or ch (as in loch). The only place "Mushussu" appears is in Final Fantasy XIII - hardly a reliable source. In every significant academic work it is rendered "Mušḫuššu", e.g. “Mesopotamian Protective Spirits” by F. A. M. Wiggermann, which is the definitive study on the subject. Kindly revert. BigEars42 (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Special_characters Perhaps this is a special case, and it could be moved back. FunkMonk (talk) 14:39, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that none of the excluded special signs are diacritical marks. It says: “Sometimes the most appropriate title will contain diacritics (accent marks), dashes, or other letters and characters not found on most English-language keyboard” and “In such cases, provide redirects from versions of the title that use only standard keyboard characters.” This is fortunate as no one would like to see Enûma Eliš renamed either. I will revert the renaming, as the correct non-diacritical rendition should have been Mushkhushshu or perhaps Mushhushshu (already a redirect), hardly very elegant! BigEars42 (talk) 15:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, my bad. FunkMonk (talk) 15:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Shrike (talk) 05:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Some Redirect Help
Could I get your help/input in moving Gemuendina stuertzi and Nefudina qalibahensis‎ to Gemuendina and Nefudina, respectively? I tried to request a technical request for the moves, but, then they simply opened up threads on the talkpages.--Mr Fink (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm only an admin in Commons, so I sadly can't do anything. There are a few other articles that should be moved too. FunkMonk (talk) 14:52, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, thank you anyhow.--Mr Fink (talk) 18:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Nice images
Many more turtle articles (Category:Turtle_articles_needing_photos) require a photo. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 19:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, there might be more to come. FunkMonk (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Guillemots
Hi there FunkMonk. Has there been any discussion or consensus reached about whether the page Guillemots should redirect to Guillemot or be about the band of the same name? I'm not necessarily disputing your change, but I'm just not entirely sure at the moment if I agree with it. Just wondering. Thanks, A Thousand Doors (talk &#124; contribs) 19:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No, but if a band was called "lions" or some such, it should still redirect to the main topic. But perhaps Guillemots itself should be a disambiguation page, the band certainly isn't the main topic with that name. FunkMonk (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Fair enough. Thanks, A Thousand Doors (talk &#124; contribs) 01:55, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Peer review
Hello! I see you are looking for a peer review for Dodo. I have just listed the article Common toad for peer review and wondered if we could swap reviews. I am not very experienced with FAC but have recently nominated Bivalvia there and it is currently going through the process. I also recently successfully jointly nominated Western jackdaw with Casliber who is well experienced and from whom I learnt a lot. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! I'm very inexperienced myself, this is my first listing for review, and I've never nominated for FA, so I'm not sure what swapping means in this context? FunkMonk (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I haven't been involved with peer review before either but am becoming more aware of what is required for FA. If you were to review Common Toad and I reviewed Dodo I expect we could both find some new perspectives on how the two articles might be improved. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

syria
Christians were reportedly present in early demonstrations in Homs but stopped participating in them when Islamist Salafi slogans were proclaimed.

do you think you fairly represented the referenced material with this edit? I couldnt find in the BBC article the emphasis you put on the material here at all. is that because I'm missing something or is it your POV editing? the article says everyone walked off in solidarity with the Xtians and as far as I could see didnt say they stopped participating full stop at allSayerslle (talk) 21:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why do you attribute those edits to me? FunkMonk (talk) 21:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * because in the edit history it isnt there after you edited on 2 march and then it is there after you edited on 4 march. still, a revealing answer in its way i guess. says it allSayerslle (talk) 22:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Read whatever you want into it, who cares, seems I must have mixed up different articles or something, it was months ago. FunkMonk (talk) 22:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * i read into it you are a liar and a twister for your POV - you got 'mixed up' - yeah right. fuck off. Sayerslle (talk) 09:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This is my talk page, so I think you're the one who needs to "fuck off". FunkMonk (talk) 09:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Magnapaulia
Hello, FunkMonk! I see that you're terribly busy...however, I noticed you added a picture from the PLoS ONE Magnapaulia article, so I wondered whether you on some future date might find the time to also upload the image with the skin impressions, which seems to be of special interest (of course any other image would be very welcome also ;o)?

Greetings from a shamelessly begging --MWAK (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, I was thinking of it myself, and would had done it anyway, I'll upload a couple today. By the way, can you think of more modifications needed for the restoration than the one I've mentioned on the talk page? FunkMonk (talk) 08:40, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much! I'll try to identify any further imperfections of the picture and will remark on them on the talk page.--MWAK (talk) 11:30, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Unblock
Thank you, JamesBWatson. FunkMonk (talk) 09:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But why does it say "declined"? FunkMonk (talk) 09:59, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Palestinian Infobox?
Hey Funk,

I was wondering why you reverted the Palestinian page infobox without discussing it at all on the talk page, we had come to a consensus earlier this year that the additional notable people we had added into the box were beneficial to the page because it helps show viewers on the page more Palestinian people and what they have accomplished.

Since being disallowed due to certain editors to include historical palestinians in the box such as early saints and what not, the box was satisfactory at best the way it was with the 16 notable Palestinians but now that you reverted it to the 8 person one it has devalued the page. Somehow the file that I created of that infobox and the infomation associated with it have been deleted, what's up with that? I saw you also noted "copyright" issues in the box that was there, but I had double checked every picture, if they were not on the wikipedia commmons with free use then they were flickr images that had usage rights usable for places such as wikipedia.

Please get back to me about this. Lazyfoxx 20:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazyfoxx (talk • contribs)
 * There were several copyright violations among the images, and many of the people were simply "filler". FunkMonk (talk) 15:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Which images were copyright violations? I had double checked the images with an administrator and he did not find any violations. Your personal opinion is that they were filler but if we look at other pages such as the Lebanese, the Irish, and other ethnicities, they have many many notable people in their infoboxes that a person could also see as fillers.  You could have at least opened up a discussion about it before deleting not only the picture but any of the history of the picture collage on here as well... :/ Lazyfoxx 04:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked at Flickr, and the licenses were ñot Commons compatible for all the new additions. FunkMonk (talk) 10:06, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * If any of the Flickr images (I believe only 2 or 3 out of the 16 were even from flickr) were not compatible, don't you think you should have brought it up in the talk page before removing the image entirely and relinking it to a older version with less pictures? Also what do you have to say about my previous statements concerning our dubious discussions on the talk page about the infobox already? What do you have to say about having so few notables in the infobox on the Palestinian page while on other pages there are many notables,  I thought you shared equal views on this issue, many of the pro-israeli editors would like to see as few notable individuals in the Palestinian box as possible.  I believe the Palestinian box should follow suit with the Lebanese box in regards to the infoboxes, this seems to work best for every ethnicity page on wikipedia. Lazyfoxx 20:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The picture of Edward Said as an adult that I used is usable on wikipedia, http://www.flickr.com/photos/26585693@N05/2540741362/sizes/m/in/photostream/ see here: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazyfoxx (talk • contribs) 20:53, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm still waiting for your response about this, I'm confused and wish you would address my questions about the issue. I will attempt to make another infobox when I have time with the same people, I have discussed with other wikipedia users and they agree that keeping the infobox to a minimum of people degrades the quality of the article pertaining to the ethnicity.  As you know I am part Lebanese as well as part Palestinian so my ongoing hope is that both ethnicity pages on Wikipedia are represented well. Lazyfoxx 17:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Common toad
Thank you for your comments in the peer review. I have actioned some and will do more but the main problem, as I see it, is the species complex/subspecies/synonyms area and I have not got suitable sources to clarify these things. So my current thinking is to leave the article where it is as a GA and forget about FA. Thanks again. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not sure if others will find the taxonomy stuff as important as I, so I think you should give it a try anyway. It seems like I'm the only one who has pointed it out. This sourced blog post by Darren Naish might help with giving an overview of the issue: http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/10/26/toads-of-the-north/ FunkMonk (talk) 10:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have now used that source but I still think the article isn't really up to FA standard. With regard to images, I saw you added one of Mr Toad. Am I permitted to copy an image such as this that I find on the web for use in an article? It is clearly out of copyright but it seems rather cheek to just use it when someone else has gone to the trouble to put it up on the web for their own purpose. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Heheh, you are legally permitted to upload whatever image you find, as long as it is in the public domain. I gather most PD images on Wikimedia Commons have just been grabbed from random sites on the web. FunkMonk (talk) 19:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

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AfD process
Hello! You've now nominated two articles, Manaf Tlass and Fawaz Akhras, for deletion via the WP:AFD process without following the full instructions for creating AfD nominations. Can you please follow the instructions next time, using all the necessary templates and adding the article to that day's AfD log? This will help other editors review the article as part of the normal AfD process. -- The Anome (talk) 12:19, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, not so experienced with that. FunkMonk (talk) 08:06, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Pterosaur images
Hallo FunkMonk! To my great joy, I noticed that you had already uploaded many images from the scientific articles about Europejara and Bellubrunnus. However, insatiable as always, my desire has been aroused by three more. The Europejara publication includes a map of the Lower Cretaceous continents, which would be very useful because we have nothing comparable. The Bellubrunnus article has two diagrams, one of the skull, the other of the larger skeleton, which would be very instructive as they can make clear to a larger readership what all those technical osteological terms really refer to. Could you, again, help me out?

Greetings, --MWAK (talk) 07:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course, they'll be up in a few minutes... FunkMonk (talk) 08:05, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now they're in, with some pretty insufficient captions. Feel free to request uploads at any time! FunkMonk (talk) 08:19, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Many thanks! I'll try to insert as many references to the diagrams in the main text as possible.--MWAK (talk) 05:35, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Pictures?
I wonder if you could help us with the issue about copyright under PA on the West Bank? See here, Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you're safe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-Israel-Photo FunkMonk (talk) 03:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, I ended up using the US-template, too. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Ibis pages
I'm looking for "Schlegel 1868 pp. 503-504" in the Ibis, and I'm lead to believe it might be buried somewhere in this: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-919X.1868.tb06134.x/abstract FunkMonk (talk) 22:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19774761/Ibis%20letter.pdf Please inform when you downloaded the file. OhanaUnitedTalk page 04:08, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done, and thanks. FunkMonk (talk) 13:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Linkable page http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/16342118 and the actual work by Schlegel referred to there is probably this one in Dutch (illustration here). Shyamal (talk) 05:15, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks, so the actual paper is in Dutch, hmmm, hope I can decipher it... I know Danish and most German, so perhaps that will help, combined with English. FunkMonk (talk) 13:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can see it's not that particular Schlegel paper, the one I'm looking for announces the discovery of illustrations in the journal of the Dutch ship Gelderland, but I have no idea what the citation would be then. The paper you linked to is helpful anyway, it contains the first "accurate" restoration of the Reunion Solitaire. FunkMonk (talk) 13:35, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Since Schlegel perhaps never actually wrote a paper based on the journal, can someone find "Newton 1875" in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London,pp. 349,350. which names Lophopsittacus mauritianus, based partially on a drawing in the Gelderland journal? FunkMonk (talk) 13:39, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Enjoy --Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 13:59, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! FunkMonk (talk) 14:17, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Clades
Greetings. I've recently been watching the Tree of Life and seen your question. I am no expert here but I am willing to discuss the code with you if you are interested. I've researched this clade thing a bit and read the template docs and talk pages. I will be willing to help if possible so I may learn a thing or two as well. Here is a quick sample I came up with.

I am not sure if this is what you want, these are nested tables and should be able to be arranged in any order. The doc pages refered to above explain many idiosyncracies as well as certain problems which appear (most have been resolved).

The links to the Doc pages are on the template page and they have a discussion page as well. I will play some more with the tables to see what else happens. O = M C 4 22:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! What I meant can be seen here, Didunculus splits off at the base, if you can see what I mean, but branches below all the rest, instead of above. FunkMonk (talk) 22:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I see the placements (didonculus), are you attempting to produce this whole clade? -as it is huge being on the internet is probably an image not code (wikitable). If you are attempting just the section (didonculus) we may work something out. I am reviewing the this page Template:Clade/doc for more info.

And you may try this at APG III system, open the edit and see if you can c/p the part you are looking to achieve. It may take some experimentation,(that's what I do) until it looks like I want it to. O = M C 4 23:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, I only want to make Dicunculus branch out below instead of above, the rest of the cladogram is indeed huge. I'll try to experiment with existing cladograms, that's how I came to the one I have now also. FunkMonk (talk) 08:58, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I can see Erik Haugen did what I was thinking of, I think I did the same at one point, with no effect: FunkMonk (talk) 09:02, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Mascarene Coot
Hi FunkMonk! I have no problem with what you've posted in your edit summary, but wouldn't it be easier to simply copy the reference manually while making the edit? I'm aware that at least one bot will sometimes track and rescues orphan refs as such, but I also see a lot of these go stale... or users simply adding orphan ref-calls that never had parents to begin with. I only visited this article because it was reporting an error elsewhere. -- WikHead (talk) 10:09, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll do it manually, but perhaps you can help me with a problem, I think the ref and quotation templates might be incompatible, I'll add it and we'll see... FunkMonk (talk) 10:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They aren't, so it should be fixed now. I tried with a cite book template within a quote in another article, and the whole thing got messed up. FunkMonk (talk) 10:14, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks great! I personally would have left the image where it was though... but won't complain because it probably looks a lot different to those viewing in a higher screen resolution than I use myself. Have yourself a great day FunkMonk, and thanks for being so co-operative. Happy editing! :) -- WikHead (talk) 10:24, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for notifying me, I also discovered I had forgotten to put in the "references" tag-thing at the bottom, so nothing would had showed up even if Anomiebot came around... As for the image, it'll probably be moved around again once the article is expanded sometime (shouldn't be too long). Cheers! FunkMonk (talk) 10:30, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been a pleasure . If there's ever anything I could possibly assist you with, don't be shy to give me a shout. Cheers right back at ya  -- WikHead (talk) 10:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 14:00, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Rodrigues Solitaire

 * Thanks a lot! FunkMonk (talk) 04:03, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Move request
Hi. I started a move request Here. And it has now been more than 12 days, since I first started the move request. However, that page is move-protected, so I would appreciate it if you moved that page. Thanks! SuperHero2111 (talk) 03:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'm not an admin, so I can't really do anything! FunkMonk (talk) 04:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You're not? I thought you were! Well, do you know any admins? SuperHero2111 (talk) 05:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm only an admin on Wikimedia Commons, the place with the images. You can find admins here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_administrators FunkMonk (talk) 12:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Dead or alive?
Hi FunkMonk Now we have excluded the Solitaire. But I have now understood how it works. Let me change it and then let me know what you think. Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 18:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I misunderstood your "they" - thought you were talking about dodos, but I see now that you were talking about the dodo + the solitaire. In the process, I removed reference to "it has been suggested", seeing that it is a fait accompli.

Don't know if you speak French - if you do, take a look at the Threskiornithidae, http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threskiornithidae. They had the wrong species listed as extinct. Best regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 19:24, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * All sounds good, as for the French Wiki, that's what Google translate is for, I'll take a look. FunkMonk (talk) 19:28, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems like they have listed the Reunion Ibis twice for some reason? FunkMonk (talk) 19:34, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thanks a lot! FunkMonk (talk) 05:03, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You deserve a cookie, too.--Mr Fink (talk) 05:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Heheh, thanks! FunkMonk (talk) 05:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

RE:2011 DNA study
Hi, i have the paper. Give me your email to send you a copy.

Best.--Ornithodiez (talk) 15:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks you can send it to (removed, though it can be found in the history, d'oh!), I will remove the address from here once I receive it. FunkMonk (talk) 16:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 19
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A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks man, and nice-looking barnstar! FunkMonk (talk) 14:14, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

GA review
I'm just making sure you saw the GA review at Talk:Broad-billed Parrot/GA1. – Maky  « talk » 15:36, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 26
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 * added links pointing to National Liberal Party, Sabra, Koura, Arab Democratic Party, Murabitun and Basta


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Congratulations!

 * Yay, thanks a lot! I'll definitely try to write more. FunkMonk (talk) 14:33, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Hama victims
I was working on the Assad's foreign policy so I haven't payed to much attention to Hama. Nevertheless, I'll fix the mistake. -- Wüstenfuchs  14:18, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, don't know if you missed it, but I also left a comment at the peer review. FunkMonk (talk) 07:34, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

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Duplication detector
To install the script, add: importScript('User:Ucucha/duplinks.js'); // User:Ucucha/duplinks to Special:MyPage/common.js. There will be a link "Highlight duplicate links" in the toolbox on the left on every mainspace article. If you can't see it, try switching to the monobook skin  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  08:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll see if I can figure it out... FunkMonk (talk) 08:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Mary Anning
Editing an article is not disruptive just because you don't agree with it; the picture removed was based on the one higher up in the article and is the same pose - this adds nothing to the piece - but rather clutters it.  Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!}  (Whisper...) 12:48, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree, and it was there when it became an FA, so there is absolutely no problem with it. You're the only one who ever brought it up. I don't see it clutters a section with no other images. If anything, the upright parameter could be added to the image. FunkMonk (talk) 12:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Mauritius Blue Pigeon
I have taken on the review of Mauritius Blue Pigeon. I was wondering if you would care to reciprocate by reviewing one of my nominations? I have put forward three articles for GAN, Sandgrouse, Tropaeolum (I've just nominated this today and it may not appear on the list for a few hours) and Amphibian. It is the last one that I am keen for someone to review. This is because I would like to put it forward for FA before the end of the month, the timing being important as I am competing in the WikiCup which draws to a close at the end of October. However, I appreciate that Amphibian is a rather long article and might involve a greater time commitment than you would choose to undertake. I will review your article in any event especially as you have helped me with Common toad. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:55, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and I'll certainty help you out if I can, at the moment I know more about birds than amphibians, so I guess sandgrouse would be the best one for me to review? Never done such a review before, by the way, but I'll try my best. FunkMonk (talk) 11:19, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now added some comments to sandgrouse, hope they are helpful. FunkMonk (talk) 14:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I will work on your suggestions. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Common toad
I have uploaded to commons your horizontally aligned image of tadpoles and substituted it in the article. However it is not completely satisfactory because on my screen, the next section has its heading to the right of the image whereas I would like it to be below. I don't know how to resolve this. Making images appear in the correct place is difficult and a matter of trial and error for me. Can you help? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * One thing that could be done, also in the last section where mr. Toad interferes with the refs, is to insert clear. This would push the next section further down, but it will create a bit of white space between. I right aligned the tadpole image, since they face left (the mos states that humans and animals should face the text, not away from it, the "defensive" toad should maybe be left aligned too). Maybe the image could be moved to the development section, which has no images? FunkMonk (talk) 07:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have moved the images around so they fit better with nearby text, do not clutter, and face the text. You can just change it back if you don't like it. I have also uploaded a higher res version of the tadpole image, the one from Tinypic was a bit small. FunkMonk (talk) 07:26, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I added a nice video that shows some specimens swimming around in a German pond, while emitting sounds. They also mate later in the video. This is good, since there are no images of swimming toads in the article, and it also shows their movements and habitat.FunkMonk (talk) 07:42, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Maybe we should omit the egg strings image. It is interesting when enlarged but unclear at thumbnail size, and we could then move the tadpoles image and horizontal strip a little higher in the section. On my screen, a single letter "A" currently appears at the beginning of the second paragraph of "Development and Growth". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:00, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it is nice to have an image showing the egg string (it is kind of hard to imagine for people who don't know what it looks like, and we won't have an image of the egg if removed), but I agree that the image is not particularly good, and it is quite small. I'll see if I can find a better one on Flickr or somewhere else. I don't see the single A, is it because of image squashing the text? FunkMonk (talk) 08:06, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There are actually many Bufo bufo spawn images in the spawn category on Wikipedia, for some reason they have not been categorised properly, so I just made a ctegory for them: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bufo_bufo_eggs The one we have seems to be the best one, but the drawing comes close... FunkMonk (talk) 08:16, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

1919 Syrian Revolt
Hey Funkmonk, what do you think about changing the name of the article -> 1919 al-Ansariyah mountains revolt, to distinguish it from the revolt of Hananu in Aleppo and Antioch (it's also an article that should be created). Or if you have other suggestions for the name. Yazan (talk) 05:06, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ~1919 Syrian Coastal Revolt maybe? It should be a name that other sources have used. FunkMonk (talk) 05:17, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That works for me. We can keep it as is for now though, until I get around to creating the other article. Yazan (talk) 05:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

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Dodo and Rodrigues Solitaire
These are nicely done. I see you're using a lot of cite doi, and I've done a lot with that. See, for example, Tethys (moon). Many of the cite there have dois and they're pulled in at the bottom in a bulleted list; inline they're called with sfn, as are the non-doi ones. This would be the next place to go with these two article. See Pedro I of Brazil (currently on the main page;) as an example of heavy sfn use; Pedro II of Brazil, too, which uses far more. I've done this with hundreds of FAs... Nikita Khrushchev, Amundsen's South Pole expedition, Andromeda (constellation), SMS Bayern (1915). ;) Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 12:55, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice, is it a partially automated process? Because it seems like heck of a lot of work! FunkMonk (talk) 13:02, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I have some local tools that help. Given that Dodo is at FAC, I'll give you an taste on Rodrigues Solitaire. You seem to have done the doi templates by hand. The Citation bot can help a lot with this. There a pref->gadget that you should turn on. The process for new ones is to use a {cite doi} in a preview and then use a "jump the queue" link to have the bot rough it in. Then you merge any further details you have, including the refharv. I saw a few {cite doi}s that are invalid; no doi actually assigned. It occurred to me that you're looking ahead to that ;) Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 13:19, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ;) Looks better when all are done... Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 13:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Rodrigues Solitaire is done. With this mechanism, footnotes like:
 * ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n Cheke & Hume 2008, pp. 45–168.
 * that were all one named ref can be revisited on a per-cite basis. That's a huge page-range to be citing; now, if you simply tweak the page numbers, the footnote collation in the references section will simply tag along and collate as needed. The wiki-text also has authors, years, and pages inline in a short form, rather than the large doi numbers. With all the citation details in the references section, the text in the body of the article is mostly in English.
 * Dodo has about twice the footnotes, but many of the doi templates are common with RS, so it will go about as easy. Tomorrow-ish. Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 18:50, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all that! I'll see if I can figure it out myself one day. I had some problems with the doi bot, it did not recognise certain jstor articles... FunkMonk (talk) 19:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. I do a lot of this, so I can nudge things along. Not all jstor article will have dois assigned. There is a numbering scheme, so they will probably get assigned at some point. A things to watch for is '/' encoded as .2F in cite doi templates names. They have to be, but the doi itself needs the slash. This means you can't copy them back-and-forth. I fixed a few of these. Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 19:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

fyi, I started revisiting the doi templates that are used in Dodo this morning as prep for structuring as done in Rodrigues Solitaire. There are a fair number still Todo. I see the article has been busy and will wait for a quiet time to fuss with the invocation side of things. Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 18:30, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there'll at least be some copy editing in the coming days, so many sentences will probably be broken up and moved around... FunkMonk (talk) 18:33, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Being at FAC drives traffic to articles; that's how I noticed these. I reviewed the big diff since I'd last been there and things like human can go ;) Mally's good at this. These doi templates are used in some related birds, and I'll look at them, too. Br&#39;er Rabbit (talk) 18:47, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * As you've seen, I finished Dodo. I saw ; sorry to have had to tag that while at FAC, but it needed citing. So does Quammen. The large number of cites to wide page ranges:
 * 5. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x Fuller 2002, pp. 13–153.
 * 10. ^ a b c d Strickland & Melville 1848, pp. 4–112.
 * 17. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r Cheke & Hume 2008, pp. 22–115.
 * really should be tweaked to more specific pages. With sfn, it's trivial: just change the value to the new pages; the footnote collation will just happen wo/ need of naming them. That's how this all work, by the way; sfn is generating names per the parameter values and MediaWiki is then doing the automatic collation of duplicates. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do. Sadly, the Quammen cite is from before my time, so I'm not sure what to do with that... I know of another book that cites Quammen on the statement, should I cite that instead? FunkMonk (talk) 16:53, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Indirect reference are a bit dodgy, but if that's all you have... That would be done with a related tool, efn, for explanatory notes; see Rodrigues Solitaire for a use. See SMS Braunschweig for how a source is referred to from inside a note with harvnb. On Rodrigues Rail, I didn't see that there were no page number before I started restructuring the cites. It wasn't my intent to be calling that out. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 18:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should ask at the FAC? And another thing, in the Dodo article you added some space between images and quote boxes, but not to all. Is there a practical reason for this? And at Rodrigues Rail‎, is it possible to do like on Mauritius Blue Pigeon, so that I don't have to fill in a new number for every single time a ref is used? Olson is like three pages, but I cite them many times, it is kind of redundant to fill in the same pages over and over. FunkMonk (talk) 07:42, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

the hippos
sorry for the confusion (eohippus/eurohippus). is it possible to rename (or delete) the file? i don't like it called eohippus.jpg now... — Preceding unsigned comment added by TobiasKilian (talk • contribs) 16:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is quite easy, I will do it for you. What should it be called? FunkMonk (talk) 16:53, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

the correct name should be eurohippus.jpg, if that name is in use, than eurohippus berlin.jpg or something like that. thanks alot. --TobiasKilian (talk)
 * Ok, I'll do it now. FunkMonk (talk) 17:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikiproject proposal
You have a history of contributing to Frank Zappa-related material and articles. If I proposed a Wikiproject centered around Frank Zappa as a way to make articles on the subject more organized, would you support my proposal? Friginator (talk) 00:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but Wikiprojects have a problem of being deserted if the scope is too narrow, maybe make it a "task force" within another project? You'd still be able to have a project page, portal and everything. But in any case, I'd support it. FunkMonk (talk) 11:08, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe couple it with Captain Beefheart? --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 07:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess he could be tagged under it. FunkMonk (talk) 11:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

If you could add your name to the list here, that would be great. Remember, we need the involvement of as many users as possible. If you know anyone who would be willing to participate, send them along! Cheers. Friginator (talk) 22:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Dodo
Hi Funkmonk. I'm sorry to see the troubles you've had getting Dodo copy edited, and that even now the prose is getting some criticism. Would you like me to do a quick (but careful) pass through it tomorrow? I only will if you say so, but I can see some minor issues with prose and some silly links (e.g. the tuft in "tuft of tail feathers" actually links to Tufting, which is apparently "a type of textile weaving"). Regards, --Stfg (talk) 21:06, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that would be really nice. If you have the time, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 08:18, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have time, no problem. Will start in an hour or two. --Stfg (talk) 09:47, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. I've finished now. Will keep it watchlisted till FAC review done. Please do change anything I've done that you don't like. Best, --Stfg (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! And really nice that you were so easy to get in touch with on the talk page. Cheers. FunkMonk (talk) 14:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Common toad
I have made further amendments to the "Taxonomy" section of Common toad. Your comments at the FAC page would be welcome. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, I noticed, and I'll add some comments. By the way, I'm not sure if I'm permitted to support eventually, since I have edited the article myself, and may be too involved? FunkMonk (talk) 09:10, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about that but if the nominator of an article is presumed to "Support as nominator", then I imagine others who have edited it can state their view. In any case, if you are happy that the article qualifies after the alterations I have made, especially to the Taxonomy section, I don't think your support would be disallowed. If you do feel like supporting it, I would be most appreciative. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:21, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

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Re:Potential FACs?
Honestly, they all look strong at a glance; all would have potential if you're certain that the sources have been exhausted. Mauritius Blue Pigeon looks like the strongest, but I'd recommend getting those page numbers sorted in the references- some have them, some don't, and your many references to Hume 2011 would be made much more useful with page numbers. That sort of finickity detail is exactly what is often exposed at FAC. Other than that, objections to the heavy quotes (but, hopefully, the precedent at previous FACs would defeat that) or the exposure of further sources which should be used would probably be the only major problems. I'm a little stretched for time at the moment, but I'd be happy to offer a deeper review (be it at peer review, FAC or informally before FAC) on any of them, if you'd like- I find the subject matter fascinating. Just drop me a line on my talk page. J Milburn (talk) 15:59, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I still have the Dodo article to look for at the moment, so it won't be in the immediate future anyway. But I'll try to work on the issues you mentioned in the meantime. FunkMonk (talk) 16:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Raphinae
Since you did Dodo and Rodriguez Solitaire, you could probably bring Raphinae to FAC. Then the three could go to FTC. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:13, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking along similar lines, but I might only be able to get it to GA, there aren't many articles that treat them as a collective rather than individually. FunkMonk (talk) 00:15, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That would still be enough for FT. You could use sources on the individual species and use it as examples (Bivalvia may serve as inspiration, I can't think of any birds off the top of my head). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:20, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Article you requested per fair use
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B86iegI5pG5TWHRFR2pKRkNmM1E

Please send me a message when you are done. Churn and change (talk) 15:33, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

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Dodo
Congratulations on your FAC success with Dodo. At this time my Common toad is the lowest, most long-standing candidate on the FAC list and I am unsure of its ultimate success.

Would you be interested in helping me with an article I am hoping to put forward for FAC in the near future and in which the Taxonomy section may be the weakest part? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:28, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, I'll of course see what I can do, I mostly know about vertebrates, but I'm interesting in all animals. I'll give Common Toad a new read and see if I can find any problems. I'll give it my support if it looks good, then someone can revert it if I'm not "allowed" to or whatever. FunkMonk (talk) 19:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your support for Common toad, and in fact your help in other ways.
 * The article I am referring to above is Amphibian. It is currently nearing the end (I think) of a thorough GA review and needs some further polishing. The reason I want to move it to FAC soon is because of the WikiCup. If successful at FAC it will score a large number of points because of the bonuses awarded in the scoring system. Here is the position in the final round of the WikiCup where I am currently joint second. If you feel like co-operating on the article I would be delighted. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Could be nice. I had a really big book about amphibians once, unfortunately it disappeared, but I'll see what I have... I'll give it a read and see if I can think of improvements. FunkMonk (talk) 13:31, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems like the main image could be a problem, the uploader did not specify which images were used, so it is basically without source. FunkMonk (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have not paid as much attention to the images as I should have done. What should we do about the main image? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:00, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We can just make a new compilation, if you can think of species that would be representative, I can make the collage. FunkMonk (talk) 12:15, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it matters much which species are used but they should include at least one frog, one salamander and one caecilian. If you are doing a 4 part compilation, perhaps the fourth could be a tadpole or an axolotl. I am sure you will have views on which direction each should face, what colours and backgrounds fit well together, whether they are properly licensed etc. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 15:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Brittanica also has a toad in their image of "representative amphibians", but that might be a bad idea, since it's an unnatural group? FunkMonk (talk) 16:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And hey, the common toad just got promoted! Congrats! FunkMonk (talk) 18:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, the fourth image should probably be of one of the extinct groups, they're kind of unrepresented in the article. That might be a problem before getting it to FA too, the article is basically about the lissamphibia, every section could potentially have info about what is known about the extinct lineages as well... You should perhaps ask Petter Bøckman how to handle it, he is quite an amphibian guy. FunkMonk (talk) 22:20, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for all your help in getting Common toad promoted. Thank you also for helping with the images for Amphibian. I think it may be unrealistic to put it forward for FAC in the timescale I originally proposed but we can see how things go. I have asked Petter Bøckman if he can help. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added a bit to the Classification section of Amphibia, but I don't think it is quite what you had in mind. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:18, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's good, but I was also thinking about the rest of the article. Not sure if others will find that necessary too, but you've restricted most of the article to the crown group. FunkMonk (talk) 18:27, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks! FunkMonk (talk) 13:35, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

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Your thoughts are requested
I’ve started a move request to change the title of the article Al-Nusra Front to Protect the Levant to Al-Nusra, per WP:commonname. Your input is appreciated. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 01:04, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:MU

 * Wow, thanks a lot! FunkMonk (talk) 18:25, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Mauritius Blue Pigeon
I've left you some thoughts. J Milburn (talk) 15:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! FunkMonk (talk) 15:30, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Kolposaurus
Hello, FunkMonk. Are you saying that Kolposaurus should redirect to one of its synonyms? Right now it just redirects to itself, so it's broken. Please could you take another look at it? Thanks. – Wdchk (talk) 19:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, take a look at this for example, other preoccupied names are not dabs. But I'll fix it so itlinks to what it originally refers to. FunkMonk (talk) 19:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm happy to take your word for it that preoccupied names are not dabs. My main concern was to fix the self-redirect. – Wdchk (talk) 19:49, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen other examples. The name is a junior synonym of Nothosaurus because one species now referred to Nothosaurus was called Kolposaurus. Later the name was given to another gneus, but this is a mistake, so the name "rightfully belongs" to the former. FunkMonk (talk) 20:02, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Syria
Just because your country of Lebanon spent 15 years in a civil war doesn't mean that every event in your region is oriented around issues of sects. Sopher99 (talk) 03:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not everything. Not flowers, for example. But the war in Syria certainly is. FunkMonk (talk) 03:10, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you. Most of the death toll comes from Sunni men with artillery bombing Sunni villages in the name of Assad. Sopher99 (talk) 03:12, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It is Baath versus Anti baath more than sect clashes. Sopher99 (talk) 03:12, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Compare this to Bahrain. Bahrain is ruled by the minority Sunni (33% about), and had peaceful protests until the gulf put the protests down by force. Only initially 32 died as compared to hundreds, so it did not get as much media attention as Libya. Then the sectarian propaganda slowly creeped in, and not even intentionally. The media researched bahrain and found it a country of two sects, so logically the media inside Bahrain and out the protests as a "shiite uprising". The Bahrain government labeled it a "foreign conspiracy (sounds familiar? ") and from then on it was "all about Shiite vs Sunni". However the people who declared the "day of rage" were anonymous, the protests had nothing to do with sectarianism. So much so that the King of Bahrain 1 week earlier planned to give $2200 to every citizen in a clear attempt to bribe people away from protesting. Bahrain is a small country heavily dependent on the USA. They could not afford putting things down with wide-scale massacres, nor could they even hope to hide such massacre in a 20 mile wide country. People now assert sectarianism in and outside of Bahrain despite the Bahraini uprising despite being a genuine revolutionary movement, and assert proxy war and "foreign backing from Iran" despite none exsists in any serious extent other than public statements of condemnation from Iran.

In reference to Syria, you are the journalist who would describe Bahrain as a sectarian scenario and as a foreign backed iranian conspiracy. Sopher99 (talk) 03:27, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course it is multifaceted. But you have to take history into account, and the facts on the ground. This uprising has been building up since 1982, and of course some secular liberals joined it, but they've been completely sidelined in the meantime by the main force, which is rural, religious Sunnis. Anyhow, the Lebanon analogy still holds. The Lebanese army was secular, but run by Maronites, so many Muslims defected. Yet Christians killed Christians, and Muslims killed Muslims. The Syrian war is sectarian in the same way, but of course there are exceptions. And Bahrain is less violent because the demonstrators don't kill soldiers. FunkMonk (talk) 03:31, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

From March 2011 - June 2011 soldiers did not die in Syria except when they put down their guns, then they were shot in the back by their own fellow soldiers. By July 2011 enough soldiers abandoned post and escaped alive as to form a fighting group. The group today is known as the Free Syrian Army. Sopher99 (talk) 03:36, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

You should not fall into the sectarian trap. Other than the Assad family and the Makhlouf family, in Syrian the top ranking generals are Ali Mamluk and Rustom Gazale, and guess what sect they are from? Sopher99 (talk) 03:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

The Vice president is Sunni, the prime minister and the cabnet are Sunni. Most parliamentarians are Sunni. Half the Military inner circle are Sunni. Bashar's wife is a Sunni. His Kids are half sunni. Maher's wife is a sunni. I really don't see how its an "Alawite regime" leading a Sunni majority. What I do see is a dictator with a crazy personality cult. Sopher99 (talk) 03:45, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Farouk Sharaa, and no, he hasn't defected, in spite of constant rumours. As I said, the government is secular. The insurgents on the other hand, not so much. The "personality cult" around Bashar is just for morale. If he died, it wouldn't make a difference. Syria is ruled by a shadow government of old guys from the time of Hafez Assad. FunkMonk (talk) 03:47, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * More specifically Mohammed al Assad, Nazir al Assad, Hafez Makhlouf, the late Assef Shawkat, the late head of intelligence whats-his-name, and the late Hassan Turkmani. I wouldn't be so sure of the Syrian state surviving after the possible death of Bashar. Sure his personality cult is not as central as Gaddafi's was in Libya, but the remaining army still fading out quite quickly in Libya. Sopher99 (talk) 03:55, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

So now you moved the talk from "its about sectarianism" to its about church and state. In the right direction, but still wrong. Syria is known to headquarter Hamas, and its two biggest allies are Hezbollah, which engages in "jihad", and Iran, a self-declared Islamist theocracy. To add to that, he receives help from the Sadrist, radical shiites in Iraq. Assad also released a top alqaeda figure wanted in Europe. None of these indicate care for preserving a secular state. Sopher99 (talk) 03:55, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see how receiving help from non-secular foreigners makes Syria less secular. If it had any actual impact on secularism in Syria, as the Saudi support for the rebels does, we could talk. And yes, Syrian police was attacked early on, before the military was brought in. And again, those government figures who were killed were just the tip of the iceberg. No problem to find replacements. FunkMonk (talk) 07:34, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The war in Syria has become sectarian is not because of the government, but its because of the armed opposition who are quite fanatical anti-Alawites and anti-minorities. Sure, that Ba'athist regime isn't "secular" as what user FunkMonk thinks because the regime do talks and brings up religion at times. But their repression wasn't about sect, but whether the Syrians were loyal to the regime or not. That's the difference. On the other hand in Bahrain, the violence becomes sectarian is from the government's Iranian Shia bogeyman rhetoric, and add the sectarian Al Wefaq leaders and hardcore supporters if you wish (although their sectarianism is more on concerning about Shias the most than other sects, but not being anti-Sunni sectarianism). Myronbeg (talk) 04:52, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It is as secular as it gets in the Middle East. Secularism isn't the same as atheism, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 07:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)