User talk:GRuban/Archive 8

Advice on image in DYK
Hi! I hope it's okay to ask you this, I've seen you be very active in images as well as DYK, so I was hoping you'd know the answer. I was reviewing this DYK nom, and it has an image that was added to Commons because it's in the public domain in Sweden. Is that enough for it to be used on a DYK, or does it need to be in the public domain in the US? Thanks in advance! Achaea (talk) 18:23, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Short answer: it is not enough, and we do need the US PD. Unfortunately. Now there is a slight chance we could find that it is US PD, or there might be some other way we could squueze it in, and I will follow up with more details, but for now ... --GRuban (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I see User:JGHowes has tagged the image, File:Tore Wretman, Stallmästargården, 1960-tal.jpg, PD-1996. Which is great! I am all for images. I admit, I personally was reluctant to do so, because it's not very well documented where the image comes from. It is marked as a 1960 photograph by Lennart Nilsson, but the origin is a page on a wine website, where it doesn't say either of these things. Presumably it actually comes from a book, and since Nilsson is a rather notable photographer, (which is why we have an article about him) and published a number of books of photos, and I wasn't willing to either find the book, and check that it was not published with a US copyright tag, or automatically assume it wasn't. --GRuban (talk) 17:18, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

User:GRuban/Leslie Schwartz
Hello, GRuban, we received an email at OTRS about this userpage. Do you intend to move it to mainspace? If not, it may be nominated at MFD or tagged G5 deletion as an article on a user page.  JGHowes   talk  16:59, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes! Hopefully the email was from the article subject and said "here is the image that GRuban wants to use on this page, I own and release the rights to it"? If so, please tell me where you put the image on Commons. That image is most of what I'm waiting for to push the article live, plus a few minor edits the subject also wanted. Meanwhile, WP:G5 is "Creations by banned or blocked users", so I doubt is what you meant. Which did you mean, please? --GRuban (talk) 23:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , yes, that's the email and image (OTRS Wikimedia.svg 2020010410003146). I've not yet cleared it, however, pending a Copyright ownership question. And "G5" was a typo, meant U5. Sorry.  JGHowes   talk  14:58, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅  JGHowes   talk  03:47, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! File:Leslie Schwartz.jpg, yes? I admit, I was worried when you wrote that the page I was writing might be speedily deleted, but you have assuaged my fears and justified my hopes. Will fix the remaining bits and push live soon, likely tomorrow. --GRuban (talk) 04:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Live! Leslie Schwartz. --GRuban (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Joc-O-Sot image
Excellent, excellent. Thank you very much. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:59, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * . You're welcome! --GRuban (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Leslie Schwartz
--valereee (talk) 12:02, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Climate Change Denial category
Hi, You closed the August 2019 RfC "RfC: Category: Climate change deniers" saying DELETION UPHELD. Today due to renaming there is a "Climate change denial" category with about 170 BLPs, due to discussion in Category:Climate change skepticism and denial. Do you happen to know what the usual procedure is in such cases? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 01:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I'd first bring it up with User:MER-C, who is the administrator who closed that renaming. It looks like they accepted the argument made by User:ජපස (who signs as jps), that "denial" and "deniers" are sufficiently different. If, after discussion with MER-C, you aren't convinced that they made the right decision, I would consider making a larger discussion in an appropriate place (the admin will be able to help find that place: possibly Deletion review; if not, then the category talk page, perhaps?) and inviting everyone who participated in both discussions, because there is an argument to be made that the rename had considerably fewer participants (10 or so?) than the RfC (over 30?), so shouldn't overrule it.--GRuban (talk) 04:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I will go to MER-C's talk page and make a suggestion. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 00:42, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kudpung/Evidence
Hello I'm and I am a clerk for the arbitration committee. I've noticed the evidence you submitted in particular the section headings aren't in line with the decorum expected in the Arbitration Space. Please refactor your headings and the comments beneath them so that they are more appropriate, or a clerk may remove your evidence entirely. Please keep in mind that all editors are required to act reasonably, civilly, and with decorum on arbitration pages, and may face sanctions if they fail to do so. I am also required by our procedures to warn you that arbitration clerks are authorized by the arbitration policy and ArbCom precedent to sanction users for conduct on arbitration pages, including by blocks and topic bans from Arbitration Committee pages. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Cameron11598 (Talk) 01:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, Cameron. There is actually extensive precedent for both classical allusion (quae vide many of the collected works of Newyorkbrad) and even humor (exempli gratia a number of the postings of Opabinia Regalis) not just in the Arbitration Space, but even from the arbitrators themselves, who, presumably, are to serve as our exemplars of what is and is not expected decorum. Therefore, while I certainly won't edit war over formatting, I do believe that my evidence meets the informal requirements. --GRuban (talk) 03:55, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The reason I picked that format is that the key point of my evidence is the "chorus": the overwhelming voices of experienced editors decrying what happened, from all sides (mostly both K and GW). That chorus is both a key and distinctive part of Greek tragedy; also the main focus of Greek tragedy is great people brought low by inherent character flaws; so the evidence seems to cry out for that format.
 * But it bothers you, and I don't want to be obstreperous. I can try to tone it down a touch. The headings are the main thing? Then will focus on those. It is a bit late where I am, so it will take me a bit of time, likely tomorrow. --GRuban (talk) 04:18, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Better? --GRuban (talk) 18:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 6
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(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 12:59, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Prod of user page

 * Hello, I received a message that did have me "very" concerned. I had trouble finding it because it wasn't listed in order on my talk page. By the time I found out what was going on I see you made revisions because it was a year old.
 * A 2nd reason I had trouble locating what was going on was because it was actually a BLPprod of Steve Carter (Indiana politician): Carter (Indiana politician)&diff=881934203&oldid=869989724&diffmode=source here and a message, I assume placed on the creators talk page, probably from a "notify creator" button.
 * At any rate I don't suppose I would attempt to throw any stones, as I have certainly made my share of "mistakes", so would be guilty of living in a glass house. Thanks,  Otr500 (talk) 08:15, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My apologies. --GRuban (talk) 11:38, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Kelly Rohrbach image
Hi, GRuban! You have assisted with reviews to requests of mine for a couple Walton family articles. Just thought I'd check in to see if you could also review this request to update photos at Kelly Rohrbach. Because of my Conflict of interest, I will not directly edit the article. Thanks, Kt2011 (Talk · COI:Walton family) 17:12, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ ... partly ... more details at article talk page. --GRuban (talk) 18:33, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Harper Carter
Hi, you came up with a film image for John R. Countryman and I wonder if you could do the same for this article? There are a bunch of film images of him on Pinterest as a child actor. Thanks for whatever you can do. Yoninah (talk) 00:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll look, but I think I made a mistake on the Countryman (Johnnie Russell) image, and will be asking for that one to be removed. It looks like that film was copyright renewed after all, even though the Stanford database didn't have it: . --GRuban (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * So I dug around in https://cocatalog.loc.gov/.

Renewal registration for: LP0000002621 / 1953-04-18 Title:	Titanic; motion picture photoplay. Copyright Claimant:	Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation (PWH) Renewal registration for: LP0000001178 / 1951-07-13 Title:	Pistol harvest. By R K O Radio Pictures, Inc., written by Norman Houston. Copyright Claimant:	R K O General, Inc. (PWH)
 * Titanic (1953 film) was renewed in 1981. RE0000086775 / 1981-03-26
 * Pistol Harvest in 1979. RE0000042686 / 1979-12-19
 * Gunplay (film) is still a possibility, it's a common title, unfortunately, and had an alternate title, I'll need to look more before being certain. --GRuban (talk) 02:17, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * All right, I'm fairly confident Gunplay was not renewed. Unfortunately the images I found from it are pretty low resolution. I added the best I could find, but it's not great. Your call as to whether to move it to the infobox or leave it in the acting section. --GRuban (talk) 13:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Eva Lee Kuney
Hi again. I just posted a new page for Eva Lee Kuney. The copyright on the 1941 film Penny Serenade in which she appears was not renewed in 1970, and there are many images of her in scenes from the film floating around. Would you be able to upload something for this article? Thanks for your help, Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes! This one I can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XiNtZJItjE. Probably within a day. --GRuban (talk) 00:07, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅--GRuban (talk) 00:26, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks a million! Yoninah (talk) 13:28, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Dear GRuban, a large part of the credit for these 18,000 views while on the main page goes to your posting this adorable image. Thank you again! Yoninah (talk) 14:43, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * --GRuban (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert for Abortion
Doug Weller talk 12:00, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Kateryna Skarzhynska
If it is possible, I need to draw on your language and technical expertise. Outside of a million different transliterations of her name in English, I have found very few sources which give her parentage. Then I ran across this. It indicates that Catherine Nikolaevna Skarzhinskaya's parents were M. F. von Reiser (Why would his name not be Nikolae like normal patronymics?) and Ekaterina Petrovna Lodygyn. Clearly the forum is not a RS, but it goes on to say the information was taken from "А.Д.Бутовского ВОСПОМИНАНИЯ / РУССКАЯ СТАРИНА, С-ПЕТЕРБУРГ, 1915г, Т.164." I think I found that book here but I cannot figure out any way to search it. Table of contents for the journal appear on PDF page 5, 184, and 366 and perhaps that will give a clue as to where the information might be had. I know that once before you were able to make a newspaper clipping appear in text so I could use a translation machine (I'm sure you have a wand for that), but I don't have a clue how to do that. Any chance you can help me with this mess? SusunW (talk) 16:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, maybe a bit more, scrolling through, I found an index on PDF page 579 that indicates a bunch of entries on "Райзер" from pages 96-146 (correlates to PDF pages 105-155). SusunW (talk) 18:18, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Will look. I see the Ukrainian Wikipedia article on her calls her "Скаржинська Катерина Миколаївна", could her father's name have been Mikola(e), which then became Nikolaevna after translation to Russian? --GRuban (talk) 18:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, the work is relevant, and though it doesn't say Mikolae, I'm willing to bet on my guess about Mikolae/Nikolae being the same. Page 118 (127 of the PDF) does say, middle of the second paragraph, that the daughter and heir of Nikolae Vilgelmovich (fon Raiser/von Reiser) was E. N. Skarzhinskaya, who is almost certainly your subject. Skimming it further, though, it doesn't say much about her, it seems to be all about the fon Raisers, Nikolae and siblings and parents and even grandparents, and not the daughter. If you were to write about them, it would be a gold mine, long, tells interesting episodes. About her, I can only find that one line (though I was skimming, I might have missed something, but probably not a lot). If you're still interested, I'll see if I can figure out how to get it machine translated, but I wouldn't count on getting much about her. --GRuban (talk) 18:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You are so helpful and I really appreciate it. I found this other lovely source, let me just link to what I'm working on and if you would, could you check my translation so far. I am unsure of how her name should be properly transliterated, as there are numerous variations even in English. As for her dad, no clue. Apparently, she was left penniless after the Russian Revolution and the state archivist wrote her life story to try to get a pension for her. I think the entire family could probably have articles written based on what you are telling me is in that 1915 journal and what is in Astryab's history. SusunW (talk) 06:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, finally got to this. The main body of Astryab's text is actually in Russian, so I can read it well; even though the foreword about Astryab is in Ukrainian. I've been reading, and you've done a good job. I've made a few minor changes on my own, and also have some suggestions you'll need to decide about.
 * Thank you so much. I truly rely on those of you with language skills to help me with articles on women. I'm pretty good with finding sources, but making sure the story is well told often requires someone who speaks the language to catch the nuances that I cannot possibly know. SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I tried running Butovsky's piece through OCR, but it's just miserable. The problem is that it's in old style Russian, before the post-revolution spelling reform, and uses a few letters that aren't used any more, and the modern Russian OCR that I can find online for free can't really deal with it. Astryab's piece is in modern Russian and much better.
 * Such is life. If you cannot read it, I certainly cannot make heads nor tails of it. SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, I can read it (say 95% - it's not quite as bad as reading Chaucer, say it's like reading Shakespeare, most of the sentences are perfectly intelligible, just the spelling is odd), I just can't OCR it into a form that an automated translator will be able to turn it into even somewhat intelligible English. Every other word comes out wrong. If there were a sentence or two that was important, I could manually translate it to English without too much trouble, but as it's a long piece that only barely touches on the main article subject, I am reluctant to. (It's the wand thing; tell a man he's got a magic wand, and he's very embarrassed not to live up to that... ) --GRuban (talk) 19:19, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I still totally believe you have a magic wand (and possibly super powers), you will not disillusion me so easily. :) For my purposes, it's enough that it confirms her heritage, but it'd be lovely if someone with interest in military history would add her relatives to our knowledge base. I've placed a link to it on her talk page, so maybe that will inspire someone who can read it. SusunW (talk) 19:27, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "Прекратившийся род", the title of Butovsky's piece, is actually something more like "The terminated family line", rather than "Discontinued clan", but I wonder if there is a better or more common way to say that? Surely there is a classic expression for a family line dying out in geneology, since this sort of thing does happen often?
 * I think it is just the "last of the family line" or the "end of the lineage". Does that sound reasonable? SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * "Discontinued lineage" seems reasonable. By the way, it's a weird title, since Skarzhynsky had 3 children, right? But maybe they all died young, or maybe he's just referring to the fact that there was no one with the name of Reiser. --GRuban (talk) 19:00, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ SusunW (talk) 19:08, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Her husband and father were both named Nikolai or Nikolae, the same name, you can pick either spelling, but shouldn't spell them differently.
 * ✅ SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Along the same line, some of your source links are called Ilchenko 2016, and Ільченко 2016; I can see an argument for using either, but one should probably be picked.
 * I use whatever the source shows, but in the case of Cyrillic script, I translate it so that it is in proper alphabetical order.


 * She left the country at the end of 1905; the source isn't quite clear, but I'm guessing the proximate cause was the 1905 Russian Revolution. I added a sentence about her employing a former prisoner who helped protect her, but I think it's worth adding another at the beginning of the "Life Abroad" section. It would also help explain why there were suddenly all these Russian emigres and refugees in Switzerland needing houses and employment help.
 * ✅ SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I can't see "her marriage ended with her departure" in the sources. Unless I missed it somewhere? I mean, sure, we can guess it's probably hard to continue a marriage across a few national borders, there was no video chat in those days, but we shouldn't say something as important as that without a source specifically saying as much; maybe it ended earlier, for example.
 * Сергієнко, p 153: "Чоловік Катерини Миколаївни, який займав посаду почесного наглядача Лубенського повітового училища, досить стримано сприймав меценатські клопоти своєї дружини. Йому імпонувало колекціонування, але він був проти всіляких видавничих витрат та зустрічей з науковцями. У Скаржинських росло троє дітей – сини Володимир, Ігор та донька Ольга. На 1905 р. подружні зв‟язки виявилися розірваними [6, с. 44], бо Катерина разом з дітьми Ігорем, Ольгoю та їх вихователем Сергієм Климентійовичем Кульжинським виїхала до Італії, пізніше перебралася в Швейцарію в м. Лозанна.. По смерті чоловіка, вона продала всі свої земельні володіння, а 30 десятин віддала для побудови сільськогосподарської школи [16, арк. 71-73зв]." Google translate: "martial bonds were broken"; Yandex translate: marital ties were severed; Microsoft tanslate "marriage ties were broken". Perhaps there is a nuance I miss? SusunW (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ OK, I'll buy that. --GRuban (talk) 21:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Little voice in my head...She left with the tutor. She lived with the tutor in Italy and Switzerland. She returned with the tutor, who paid her living expenses to the end of her life... I draw no conclusions, but ... SusunW (talk) 22:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * We need a transition between her life abroad setting up all these charitable agencies, and all of a sudden needing money herself. I'm not sure whether you mistranslated Astryab's writing " в то же время Полтавское дворянство на Скаржинскую наложило опеку за расточительность дворянского имущества на революцию. Эта опека разорила Скаржинскую, а заграничными газетами она была осмеяна." as "her neighbors' accusations of extravagance led her to abandon the project", or whether you got that from elsewhere, but it is actually means "at the same time the Poltava nobility imposed a financial penalty on Skarzhinsky for wasting the property of the nobility on the revolution. This penalty bankrupted Skarzhinsky, and she was ridiculed in foreign newspapers." Now this isn't quite as clear as I would like, I'm not quite sure how "the Poltava nobility" could impose any kind of penalty (I have a horrible suspicion that this was being written while Astryab was requesting help for from the Soviet government, so is trying to make it seem that "the evil nobility did this to her for supporting the revolution", while the actual story may be different) so if you have found a better explanation of her fall from philanthropist to needing philanthropy, please use it. But one is needed. --GRuban (talk) 16:48, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Would that I could answer how that happened, I have no idea. The passage in Astryab is here "Начавшаяся европейская война в 1914 году заставила Скаржинскую покинуть Швейцарию и возвратиться на родину, сначала в Киев, потом в Полтаву и, наконец, в Лубны. И на неблагодарной родине эту неутомимую пролетарскую труженицу не покидало сильное влечение к облегчению культурного воспитания бедных малюток. Скаржинская горячо принялась за собирание подходящих книжек для составления детских библиотек в Полтаве и в Лубнах, т.к. такие библиотеки очень благотворно действуют на умы юных читателей, не находивших здесь этого утешения. С этой целью Скаржинская насобирала детских книг уже несколько ящиков; но поднявшаяся общественная буря лишила и этой отрады Скаржинскую - все собранные книжки погибли, лишилась она и всех средств к жизни, у неё взято даже теплое одеяло." Like you, I could not figure out how her downfall happened. Сергієнко, p 153 just jumps right over it, as if nothing happened between 1913 and 1920: "У 1913 р. К. М. Скаржинська пориває будь-які зносини з діячами політичних партій, насамперед, меншовиками, роздратована фактами підробки останніми власних векселів. Жінка була глибоко вражена підступністю, так званих, революціонерів, що виманювали з неї гроші, прикриваючись балачками про необхідність освітніх заходів у ході революційної боротьби. Вона замкнено живе на віллі “Ле Пьопліє” у швейцарському селищі Розіаз під Лозанною [16, арк. 165-165 зв.]. Із початком Першої світової війни –повертається в Україну, де оселяється у своєї доньки О. М. Климової та допомагає їй у справі перетворення Круглицького училища для дорослих на приватну вечірню гімназію зі спільним навчанням хлопчиків і дівчаток, прийомом єврейських дітей, створенням учнівських організацій, листується з літераторами та митцями, відомою письменницею Л. О. Яновською, допомагає поетам-початківцям [6, с. 46-47]. На початку 1920-х рр. К. М. Скаржинській, за особистим розпорядженням В. І. Леніна, була призначена невелика пенсія [1, с. 4]. Та в кінці 1920-х рр. колишній поміщиці пригадали й дворянське походження і толерантність не тільки до Леніна, а й до меншовиків. Злиденна пенсія була зменшена до мінімуму, а після відмінена зовсім. Позбавлення засобів до існування відбилося на матеріальному становищі і здоров‟ї. В останні роки Катерина Миколаївна жила на грошову допомогу Сергія Климентійовича Кульжинського. Вона померла, всіма забута, влітку 1932 р. у Круглику під Лубнами, де і була похована [3, с. 38-40]." Any ideas you might have as to how we might discover this would be helpful. SusunW (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I still don't see "her neighbors' accusations of extravagance" as such; Astryab's words "но поднявшаяся общественная буря лишила и этой отрады Скаржинскую - все собранные книжки погибли, лишилась она и всех средств к жизни, у неё взято даже теплое одеяло" are literally "but the rising social storm took away even this pleasure of Skarzhinsky - all the collected books perished, she lost all of her means for livelihood, they took even her warm blanket". I think "rising social storm" is figuratively referring to the war and revolution, not to her literal neighbors (except possibly to the extent that her neighbors were now revolutionaries that weren't fond of former nobility, but the text just doesn't say "neighbors"). I think "neighbors" needs to go. I'm tempted to write something like "she lost her fortune during WWI and the Russian Revolution" just because it stands out by its absence, and it seems clear that she must have - but we don't have a great source for it, just this "rising social storm", which isn't ideal. So if you don't want to write a sentence like that I can understand. --GRuban (talk) 14:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it's clear somebody did something to her. Whether it was the non-existent "nobility" or the "they" who took her blanket. The problem is we just do not know who they were and what they did exactly. I think we have enough clues as to when even though we do not know who, what or why. I've changed it to read "She set about collecting books to establish children's libraries for Poltava and Lubny, but she had to abandon the project, when she lost her fortune during the chaos of World War I and the Russian Revolution." Does that work? SusunW (talk) 15:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ for lack of better. Thank you! --GRuban (talk) 15:20, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your help on her article. It is better for our collaboration, and I truly appreciate your help in evaluating it. I have nominated it for GA and if we have questions on the Russian parts, I may need to ping you. Probably won't be reviewed for months (my foreign women typically sit anywhere from 4-9 months before they are picked up for review). You are awesome! SusunW (talk) 15:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I heard from Alan. Treasure trove of info. SusunW (talk) 18:46, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you got the e-mail I sent last night, but OMG. First, I am not at all sure that I cited it correctly, can you check? Rather than list each individual author, I opted for editor and I "think" I got the right guy as editor in chief. Secondly, does this "До того ж, його та K. М. Скаржинську поєднували спільні почуття глибокої поваги і любові, які С. K. Kульжинський проніс через усе життя [52, с. 154]." (page 10) say what I think it does, or is implying a mutual love of their work? Slow going to get through it. SusunW (talk) 20:33, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I also think this "Під час проведення переговорів з Лубенською міською думою 1905 р. С. К. Кульжинський отримав пропозицію К. М. Скаржин-ської виїхати за кордон для підготовки їх сина Ігоря до вступу в реальну гімназію, а потім до Лозанського університету". (p.13) Quite clearly identifies Igor as "their son", I'm thinking. SusunW (talk) 20:49, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Got email, confirm slow going, Alan Sutton's comments on the abilities of Russian speakers to read Ukrainian are pretty accurate. Yes, those do seem to say what you think they say; but let's confirm that this author knows what he's about though, since these are rather inherently controversial details, so rather important to get correct, or various people (descendants, or just people who idolize the subject; Sutton said "sainthood", right?) may be quite unhappy! --GRuban (talk) 21:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. That's why you will see I have yet to add anything about the relationship to the article. His/her grandson, wrote "Все життя С. К. Кульжинського — це данина поваги, точніше — поклоніння і любові К. М. [Скаржинській]. Думаю, що і нас з братом він взяв під свою опіку в ім’я цієї любові. В ньо-го зберігався прекрасно виконаний на склі портрет К[атерини] М[иколаївни], і нерідко ми заставали С[ергія] К[лиментійовича] в його кімнатці за столом перед цим портретом". (p 16) It kind of just breaks your heart. SusunW (talk) 21:30, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * By the by, trying to ascertain who Супруненко was, other than the long list of titles in the book, I found this article, which says he is a senior researcher of historical Sciences and Director of the Poltava Museum. The article is again about them, so I think it is fairly safe to say it isn't a secret and clearly the family acknowledges it. SusunW (talk) 21:37, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Concrete statement: "Сергей Климентьевич Кульжинский приехал молодым сту-дентом в дом Скаржинских в качестве учителя детей. Здесь он ув-лекся красивой и умной Екатериной Николаевной, попадает в фа-вориты, имеет от нее сына..." p 41 SusunW (talk) 22:52, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I have inserted everything I gleaned from those two sources. If you could make sure there isn't a problem with the translations, that'd be great. On the photos, I have absolutely no idea what to ask Alan Sutton to get the ones he took released. I also am curious if you wrote to Tetyana about the older ones to try to figure out the dating of the postcards? I would really like to use the photograph of Kuhlzhynskii with the children on page 23 in Suprunenko. My guess, based on the age of the children is that it dates to 1895/1896. I think we are safe to use it, as somewhere in his document I read that the photos were in the family archives, i.e. never published for 120 years. Your thoughts? Thank you so much for your help on this. Never would have gotten so far with it without your and Kaiser matias' questions, your finding Sutton, and his willingness to help. SusunW (talk) 14:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Will do, sorry I'm a bit distracted, but will get to soon. --GRuban (talk) 14:07, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

April
OK, back to some extent.
 * 1) Unless you have strong reasons, you should probably pick a single way to transliterate the common "-skiy" masculine last name ending. So far I see "Skarzhynsky", "Skarzhynski" (for the same person! that clearly has to change), "Kaminsky", "Kulzhynskii", "Simonovsky", "Kuhlzynskii" (typo?).
 * 2) Possibly related, Sutton says Arnold Bax's "Skarginski"  is a French style transliteration, and there is some logic there, lot's of French "g"s are soft like that. However the official French transliteration I've run into would translate ж, the letter in question, to j, rather than g,here is our .FR article on it. So, I'd love to add a couple of words about that here and in the Bax article, but would like a source ... have you found someone published saying anything about it?
 * 3) As with her husband, I'd put in Kulzhinsky's patronymic on first mention, probably Klimentiyovich. He's become at least equally or even more important than the husband! --GRuban (talk) 16:01, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not sure I have said it enough, but thank you so very much for your help on her. I truly, truly appreciate it.


 * 1) Please feel free to standardize them (or tell me what is the best spelling and I'll make changes) in whatever way you think makes sense. I am in the dark as to what the proper way is and can only use what the sources that have been transliterated into English say. As you know, I always defer to those of you with language expertise, because I have none.
 * I changed all of the Kulzhynskiy entries to that spelling, as per your correction. I eliminated the Skarzhynski now all say sky. But I am not sure if they should all be "iy" or just "y". Your thoughts? SusunW (talk) 17:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * 1) This (though I admit French is the worst language for me to work with.) concurs with your J. analysis, i.e. "comme J fr. dans jambe". Not very helpful. This says that ge, gi, gy sound like the s in pleasure; and this says "Le g dans ge, gi, gy se prononce /Z/". Does that help?
 * I've struggled through a lot of that first reference and what is seems to me to be saying is that French transliteration was a letter by letter swap, because there was an assumption that people would know the correct pronunciation. The example given was Popov, would be pronounced Popoff, but that assumption led to problems when the name was Popova when the v sounds different, i.e. "close to w in English". There doesn't appear to be any standardized way to transliterate French to Russian taking into consideration the pronunciation. (In English, the zh to me sounds like "regime", [French word, so obviously the pronunciation of a French "gi" as in Bax's transliteration] but as I have always said, hearing language nuances is really hard for me.) SusunW (talk) 21:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * 1) Okay, added his patronymic. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog/Evidence. Please add your evidence by March 23, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Jytdog/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

All content, links, and diffs from the original ARC and the latest ARC are being read into the evidence for this case.

The secondary mailing list is in use for this case: arbcom-en-b@wikimedia.org

For the Arbitration Committee,  C Thomas3   (talk) 06:05, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

pic q
I made a mistake when cropping this image. Could you perhaps fix the black borders? ... or tell me how? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure! This is one of the easier things to do with images. You want CropTool, specifically https://tools.wmflabs.org/croptool/?title=Crocus,_Eibingen.jpg. It may ask you to sign in again, trust it. Then you get a page that lets you select the parts of the image you want manually, but in this case, with black borders, the Magic Border Locator will probably just work. If anything goes wrong we can always revert. Good luck! --GRuban (talk) 20:08, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * wow! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Caracature
Need your advice Mr. G - what restrictions do you see for this image, and do you know if it is obtainable for an article about the man? Atsme Talk 📧 10:19, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems to be a cartoon by "Peb", also known as Pierre Bellocq, about whom we have an article. So I'm pretty sure he owns the copyright. However, you can write the man, and ask if he'd be willing to release it? You're on OTRS, so you know exactly what he'd have to say. He has a website linked in our article, it has a "Contact" page: http://www.pebsite.com/contact-us.shtml Maybe if you tell him that we just can't find a better picture of the man, that might help? --GRuban (talk) 13:07, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Change in website
Hi check her website and you will find she is a relationship now so add that and you can validate it. And i happen to know as well cause its me... Nicole2410 (talk) 18:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Aha. You are referring to http://www.trina-gulliver.com/profile.html that says "Status: In a relationship with Nicole"? OK, I'll accept that as a source; it's not the most encyclopedic thing to put in an article ("Trina Gulliver, famous darts player, is in a relationship with someone named Nicole, no last name specified"), and I can see other people thinking it still shouldn't be there, but at least it's something. Will restore with that source. --GRuban (talk) 18:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Hey you've got a fan
Me. I read through your fascinating back-and-forth with a difficult subject and I'm super-impressed how you prevailed in your steadfast quest to get his image while deftly explaining Wikipedia's procedures with politesse. Perhaps a great benefit to contributing to our encyclopedia is a chance to work with multi-talented and brainy folk such as yourself.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Aww, thanks. But Rob Walker was a perfectly nice guy. He just had this idealistic notion that the important thing about a writer should be the words he writes, not what he looks like. It worked out in the end. --GRuban (talk) 21:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. That you could see things from his point of view, and still reason with him, and gently bring him around to your way of thinking, shows you have empathy and considerable people skills. That's a level of social dexterity that most people don't have. I too have often tried to persuade people to submit pictures, with mixed results, so I might try to employ your methods in the future. By the way, I found a way to include your Nellie Bowles picture here.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Update: your Nellie Bowles picture restored here (other ones got deleted -- no permission apparently).--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey thanks for restoring the NB image -- I appreciate your ability to work through the Commons bureaucracy...--Tomwsulcer (talk) 09:19, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Dana Fischer
Hello! Your submission of Dana Fischer at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 20:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 16:22, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Your input, please?
Do you know if any of these images are available for us to upload for Willa Brown? Atsme Talk 📧 15:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Meaning the images from this article: https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2019/10/22/the-maker-of-pilots-aviator-and-civil-rights-activist-willa-beatrice-brown/ ? They all seem to be labeled "(Records of the Federal Aviation Administration, National Archives)" which would mean https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-USGov-FAA should apply, they should be public domain. Also most of them are older than 1923, so would likely be in the public domain anyway, assuming they were published at that time. As a final note: separated at birth? --GRuban (talk) 15:35, 13 April 2020 (UTC)


 * OMG!!! Atsme Talk 📧 15:36, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I've got to ping . Too funny!! Atsme Talk 📧 15:38, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ha! That's pretty good! (Also: hi GRuban! I don't think we've been properly introduced, I'm a fellow programmer who's too full of himself.) creffett (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And my code is also currently compiling. --GRuban (talk) 16:15, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm having issues finding the Archive reference #s and the actual pictures in the archives. I was looking here. Help!!?? Commons is going to come after me if I don't provide better info on the image I uploaded and added to Willa Brown. Atsme Talk 📧 16:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For File:Lola Albright and Willa Brown.jpg?
 * First, under "source", you should link the page you got the image from, https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2019/10/22/the-maker-of-pilots-aviator-and-civil-rights-activist-willa-beatrice-brown/ not just https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/policies/ because that doesn't actually say anything useful. That should suffice, actually, when the National Archives say these are FAA images, we generally trust that.
 * But since you want the numbers (Featured article, eh? Cross all the ts?), we can do that too: https://rediscovering-black-history.blogs.archives.gov/2020/01/22/the-maker-of-pilots-aviator-and-civil-rights-activist-willa-beatrice-brown/ has most or all of them. I think this one is "Lola Albright and Willa Brown, black pilots, at Harlem Airport, Chicago where Miss Brown, along with Cornelius Coffey, operated the Coffey School of Aviation (Local Identifier: 237-G-142-23-1). General Photograph File (NAID 540111), RG 237" - correct? Even though the link says "Not available online", you know ... --GRuban (talk) 16:39, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, that was one of the issues because the image is here. Looks pretty available to me. Atsme Talk 📧 16:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC) Ok, I added the info you so graciously found for me - see Commons file info. 16:55, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

James Dunn
Hi, I'm in the process of expanding this article. I was wondering if this image from the 1934 film Stand Up and Cheer! can be used as public domain or fair use? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 17:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Stand Up and Cheer! had its copyright renewed in 1961: https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyr3151213libr/page/66/mode/2up/search/stand+up+and+cheer?q=stand+up+and+cheer, so it's not in the public domain. Fair use ... eh - does that image even display James Dunn? The New Yorker article that you link says it's Shirley Temple with Warner Baxter. If that's the image you mean, I'd find it a tough argument to make that the image can't be adequately replaced by text if it doesn't even show him. What you could do is look for promotional photos, also known as press photos; those needed to be marked for copyright separately, and often weren't. --GRuban (talk) 18:39, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. That's a mistake in the caption, by the way, it's Dunn and not Baxter. We have a pd image of Shirley Temple in the film BTW. Meanwhile, I've found a trove of images of Dunn on Commons, but not with Shirley Temple. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:27, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * One more question. Here is a "publicity photo" on Flickr. How do we trace the copyright? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:30, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * File:James Dunn Janet Gaynor 1934.JPG is an excellent example; you need the front and back to show that it was printed without a copyright notice. EBay is a good place to look. --GRuban (talk) 00:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. So what about this one? Yoninah (talk) 09:41, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, like that! Let's walk through the steps. That one is copyrighted in 1934, at the bottom ("waived for newspaper reproductions", but we're not a newspaper), but the odds of that copyright being renewed are basically nil, it's a press photo, not the whole movie. Let's look just in case: go to https://archive.org/details/copyrightrecords, search for "bright eyes" in text not metadata, we want about 28 years after 1934, so about 1962. All these links take a bit of time to load. We can find the renewal of the movie itself here: https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyr3161213libr/page/98/mode/2up/search/bright+eyes?q=bright+eyes and here is the renewal of a rather famous song from that movie: https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig3165lib/page/652/mode/2up/search/bright+eyes?q=bright+eyes but I don't see anything about a press photograph. So it falls under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-US-not_renewed. You'll want to upload both sides of the photograph on principle, probably as different versions of the same image. Double click on the Ebay image to see the large version, where you can click the left or right arrow to go to the front or back view: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bright-Ezes-Shirlez-Temple-James-Dunn-20cm-x-25-5cm/202707033832?hash=item2f3247dee8:g:JgoAAOSwFd9dA2Hu. --GRuban (talk) 13:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I have four windows open and I still don't know what to do. I'm a writer, not a photo editor. I'm referring to File:James Dunn Janet Gaynor 1934.JPG where the image is from ebay and the front and back images are uploaded, but this was done by someone with much more experience in photo editing. Would you be up to doing this one for me? I'll write any article you want! Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 15:40, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Someday—and that day may never come—I'll call upon you to do a service for me.

You probably want this cropped, at least to remove the borders. You may or may not want it brightened and greater contrast. And finally you may or may not want to crop off most of the person in the back - I'm guessing Dunn in the one in front? I can try to do all that too. No additional charge.

Actually, no! There is one additional charge: figure out who the person in the back is, and we'll add it to the image description and categories, or it's awkward to have a photo of three movie stars of whom only two are named. --GRuban (talk) 16:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Just making a drive-by observation, but Dunn is the dude in the back. SusunW (talk) 16:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * GRuban and yes, I realize Dunn is in the background. I really want an image with just Dunn and Temple, but I can't find a good one that isn't copyright. I'll try to figure out who this guy on the left is. Thank you for your help, GRuban, I also will be calling on you again if you don't mind! Yoninah (talk) 18:11, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's try again. I saw this image elsewhere but here it's a little fuzzy. You see both the front and back, though. Could we use this one? Yoninah (talk) 18:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Don't see why not. I didn't take the back this time, as I think if you look closely it's from the Blue Bird picture, not Bright Eyes. Also the reason we would need the back is to prove that there isn't a copyright tag on it, which we would need if we're saying the image is public domain under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-US-no_notice. There is a copyright tag on the front, so that's not applicable, but we're going with https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-US-not_renewed. It's a film still, which despite the name is not actually a frame from the film, but a separate photograph (even though it was probably taken on the film set in a spare moment during filming), so would needs a separate copyright notice and renewal, the latter of which it did not get. --GRuban (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, thank you!!! I just spent a whole week researching and improving James Dunn (actor), and I really need this image of the two of them together. The caption says it's from Bright Eyes, and I watched the movie, so can verify that she wore this dress. It's not a scene from the movie at all; it and another picture of them smiling were taken as stills on the set. I am so grateful to you for your help. Best, Yoninah (talk) 19:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, a question. I'm trying to upload a similar image to the Bright Eyes one, but I don't see the Template:PD-US-not_renewed option in the drop-down box for licensing. Yoninah (talk) 01:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're using the Upload Wizard! I use it too, honestly, but it only offers the most common half-dozen options, not all of them, explicitly. For that, you want to choose "Another reason not mentioned above", and paste into the box. Then press Preview to make sure you got it right, and it should look like the other file. Good luck, young padawan. --GRuban (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And what are you using? Yoninah (talk) 11:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * For most images, the Upload Wizard, just like you. Most of the images I upload are either US Government works or explicitly Creative Commons licensed, so I can pick from the standard menu. I wrote my own bookmarklet for the many images I get from taking screenshots of YouTube videos that allows easy paste into the Basic Upload Form (every so often I remember I'm supposed a computer programmer!). But that basic form is really only for those who like working on the "bare metal"; I only returned to it after my first thousand or so uploads! I think for your purposes - old US movie stars - you're probably best off using the Upload Wizard, and getting used to pasting in one of PD-US-expired, PD-US-no notice, or PD-US-not renewed as the appropriate case may be. And do a search for the renewal before using PD-US-not renewed, especially for movie screenshots; even though our article Copyright renewal in the United States does say "fewer than 15% of registered copyrights had been renewed", I think that means mostly books, magazine articles, and the like, as in my experience most major studio films did get renewed. Film stills and publicity photos, of course, are highly unlikely to have been renewed, but the search is still pro forma required. --GRuban (talk) 12:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I like being called a young padawan, but I am totally frustrated by the Upload Wizard. I used the basic upload form and copied what you did for the Bright Eyes press photograph into the window, but it is simply not accepting it. Aargh!!! Here is what I'm trying to upload: . Help... Yoninah (talk) 12:53, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

I could just do it, but I gather you want to learn how to do it? Here's what the Upload Wizard should look like (you'll want to click on the image thumbnail, select to view the highest resolution and scroll around to the relevant place(s)). --GRuban (talk) 13:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * SUCCESS!!! I think the problem was that I never use that new form; I always go to the old upload form. The screenshot helped tremendously. Thanks! Yoninah (talk) 16:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. But hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. --GRuban (talk) 16:15, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Kateryna Skarzhynska
— Maile (talk) 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Awww, thanks. But it was all Susun, I just helped a bit. --GRuban (talk) 01:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Not remotely true. Your translating help was immeasurable, and you found Alan, who led us to Tetyana, and without them, we would not have unraveled the mystery nor had the photos. I truly appreciate you and your skills. I will circle back when I am a bit farther along on my Russian dancer. (I promise, not Ukrainian, not Bulgarian ). SusunW (talk) 05:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott (talk) 10:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

She's really Russian, I promise.
I need your help in checking a few things on Olga Sapphire. I'm not sure if I got the parents' irregular marriage correct (translates as a civil marriage, but I think that wasn't possible and it was what English speakers would call common law or irregular marriage). Also says she was named after "her aunt's mother's husband" which seems to me is her great uncle? Also there are many photos in Кадзи & Шелаева, which I think may be useable via, but you are far more knowledgeable about photos than me. (If you have spare time, I have questions outstanding on the talk page of Patsy Mink, but that's another whole project.) Any help you can give will be most appreciated and I thank you. SusunW (talk) 22:34, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Started with bibliography. Are you sure about Большая Российская энциклопедия 1997? Because that's the Great Russian Encyclopedia which our article says dates from 2004 only. Could it be some other Russian Encyclopedia?--GRuban (talk) 00:42, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Марков П.А. The link to it is http://www.pro-ballet.ru/html/s/semenov.html [blacklisted in wp] and of course now I cannot find it again. There is another here which links to another ballet encyclopedia Русский балет also from 1997, which was also printed by the "БОЛЬШАЯ РОССИЙСКАЯ ЭНЦИКЛОПЕДИЯ" publishing house. Me thinks 2 sources point to the ballet part being done before 2004. SusunW (talk) 04:22, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Looks like her father, Грудберг Густав Янович, was shot by the USSR in 1938. https://bessmertnybarak.ru/books/person/26862/ http://visz.nlr.ru/person/book/t7/4/220. I see the latter is even a footnote in the Russian PDF. I wouldn't be surprised if the fact his daughter married a Japanese diplomat were a factor. Even if not, this should go towards how dangerous her foreign work could have been. --GRuban (talk) 16:34, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like Baron Yuriy Nikolaevich Miklos of her ballet school was shot the same year. http://visz.nlr.ru/person/book/t12/0/1750 https://vk.com/page-23375822_37214242 Not a good time to live in Russia. --GRuban (talk) 20:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Added a note. SusunW (talk) 16:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * You write "After the war, Kobayashi faced reprisals for his war activities, and Sapphire lost her primary backer. " The Russian PDF, at least, is "После войны Ольга Сапфир потеряла своего главного защитника — заведующего театром Тоёкити Хата, признанного военным преступником. " - "After the war, Olga Sapphire lost her main defender - theatre director Toyokichi Hata, admitted war criminal." I didn't read the Japanese, so maybe that applies to both Kobayashi and Hata.
 * Interesting, the ja.wp article on Hata mentions nada about any crimes and makes it appear that he continued to have theatrical successes into the 1950s. It does say that he was expelled from his managerial post at Toho by the occupation authority ordered by the General Command of the Allied Supreme Commander. Which is pretty similar to what this says about Kobayashi, he was expelled from public office in the theater production company Toho Co., Ltd. I think it probably links to Purge (occupied Japan), as that talks about Kobayashi. Expanded it to include both. SusunW (talk) 16:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * "She published three books": The Russian PDF says «О балете» (1950), ("On Ballet") «Для молодых, кто хочет стать балериной» (1980) ("For young people that want to become ballerinas") и «Балет, моя жизнь» (1982) ("Ballet, my life"). Our Japanese Wikipedia article https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B5%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A2 says "Ballet Reader" (1950), "For those who aspire to ballet" (1953), "My Ballet Itinerary" (1982)　You write 1980, 1980, and 1982. Want to double check the dates of the first two, especially the first one? The Russian goes on to say "Известный писатель Ясунари Кавабата, лауреат Нобелевской премии по литературе, в романе «Танцовщица» (1950) не только обратился к книге Сапфир, но и серьезно задумался о судьбе японского балета в связи с деятельностью русской балерины" - "Well known writer Yasunari Kawabata, Nobel prize winner for literature, in his novel 'Female Dancer' (1950) not only refers to Sapphire's book, but seriously contemplates the fate of Japanese ballet in relation to the actions of a Russian ballerina." I can't find that book in our article on Kawabata, but the writers of the Russian would have to have made a very serious mistake if Sapphire's first book wasn't at least published by 1950. --GRuban (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I went to world cat, and yes, the books were republished in 1980, initial versions 1950, 1953. Corrected text. Looked at Kawabata's publications for 1950 and can't figure out what the book might be. Searching with both their names led me to another piece by Sata, which I am trying to digest. SusunW (talk) 17:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * After struggling through that 14 page document that told me that Sapphire was Kawabata's favorite dancer (I think it says that), I found it! Dancing Girl (Maihime) and it was published in 1951. SusunW (talk) 18:53, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Elena or Eliana Pavlova, who opened the first Ballet School in Japan has an article in Russian and Japanese Wikipedias, interestingly enough under her Russian name in the Japanese, and under her Japanese name (Eriko Kirishima) in the Russian. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0,_%D0%AD%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BB%E3%83%91%E3%83%B4%E3%83%AD%E3%83%AF. Probably worth a link in the right place. --GRuban (talk) 19:35, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I had already linked it to the Russian article, but now have fixed the link to go to both. SusunW (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Japanese photos from the PDF seem very much https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-Japan-oldphoto since it says "It was photographed before January 1, 1947." and all of those were. I can upload those for you if you like. Not the drawings, though, I think. The Russian photo is possible; it dates from 1929 at the latest, and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-Russia-1996 says "This work was originally published anonymously or under a pseudonym before January 1, 1943 and the name of the author did not become known during 50 years after publication." The key point is published, though. Maybe it was only published in one of Sapphire's books? Want to write the authors of the Russian PDF and ask? Their emails seem to be at the end of the PDF, accompanied by some English text, so quite possibly they can read English. If they can't, I can translate your query. --GRuban (talk) 19:53, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * : Done with the PDF, I think. I also made some minor tweaks to your article. --GRuban (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It'll take me a bit to digest it all — you know, I'm kinda slow and methodical, but I really appreciate your help. Yes, I'd love you to load the photos; I'm fine with not having the drawings. (I noted on the web that there are better images of some of them, but this is the only one I found that gives their pub dates). SusunW (talk) 20:05, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hah! You're fast and methodical! You write three GAs in the time it makes me to write one six-paragraph article! If you have better images of some of them, we should absolutely use the better images, and just note their dates (dates taken, not dates published, seem to be the key points!) with reference to the Russian PDF. I found a PDF image extractor, so can upload the ones from the PDF, but if you have better versions please say.
 * One last thing, two sentences from the lead: "In 1960, her husband was assigned to a post in Poland and she lived there for three years. In her later years, Sapphire wrote three books about ballet, which remain influential in Japan." The first one of these doesn't belong in the lead, I think, it's not that important to her legacy. Keep it in the article body. The "later years" bit of the second will probably need to be changed if, as I suspect, her first book was published in 1950. --GRuban (talk) 20:10, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll hop on this tomorrow. Today was saving Hattie King Reavis from obscurity after her AfD was successful. Thank you again for all of your help, and yes, I'll fix the lede, after verifying the book publications. (I must say, Russian is far easier for me to work with than Japanese, but that is probably because I work with it more and though I do not know what it says in it's entirety without a machine, I recognize words and certainly characters. Japanese is above my pay grade). SusunW (talk) 23:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The only one I can seem to find this morning is the one on 254. So just upload what we have if you would. SusunW (talk) 13:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Olga_Sapphire --GRuban (talk) 16:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Gracias, mi amigo. I think I managed to address all of the things you discovered. The photos are wonderful. Now to find someone who speaks Japanese to review it. SusunW (talk) 19:42, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Dana Fischer
— Maile (talk) 12:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for another good one! - Would you be able to find a pic for Inge Borkh? ... any other missing in WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Recent deaths? ... perhaps find better ones (as I just did for Norbert Blüm)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Inge Borkh done. I have been looking at most of the many opera singers you put in DYK, and haven't been able to find many, so am glad was able to help with this one. The Recent deaths seem well illustrated at the moment. --GRuban (talk) 17:14, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ... today Credo, or this is the day from Psalm 118. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Double upload
Hi, I was wondering how to effectively upload both the front and back views of the same photograph and list them under "Source" next to the ebay link. This time I uploaded File:The Blue Bird press photograph, front.jpg and File:The Blue Bird press photograph, back.jpg, but I can't figure out how to list them both on this page: File:The Blue Bird press photograph, front.jpg. Thanks for your advice, Yoninah (talk) 17:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Both options I know are rather unintuitive.
 * Upload the back first, then upload the front as another version of the same file. ("Upload a new version of this file" link towards the bottom of the page.) I did that with https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shirley_Temple_in_%22Bright_Eyes%22_with_James_Dunn.jpg
 * Link the back and front to each other as another version in the "|other versions=" of the https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Information. That seems best given you have both files already uploaded. --GRuban (talk) 18:26, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, but how do I fix it now? I want to add the link to the back photo to the front photo. Yoninah (talk) 18:49, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Done.  What you did - [File:The Blue Bird press photograph, back.jpg back view] - would have also worked with one more set of []s and a few |s, probably like this: The Blue Bird press photograph, back.jpg . I used the Other template, but it doesn't do anything that magical, just is a bit more organized. One thing, though; you're using PD-US-expired; I would go straight to PD-US-no notice.  You can see there is no copyright notice on either front or back. That's really the point of uploading the back, to prove there is no copyright notice. The previous James Dunn images had a clear "copyright Fox" notice on the front, so we need to use PD-US-expired; this one doesn't have something like that. --GRuban (talk) 21:21, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Mia Kang
— Maile (talk) 12:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Unspecified source/license for File:Mary Boquitas y Cherry 2.jpg
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Newspaper image
Hi, how would I know if the copyright has expired on a newspaper, the Valley Times? I would like to upload this image from a 1949 issue. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 15:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this info helps (from the LA Times): Valley Times: Daily newspaper that consolidated with the Roscoe Herald and the North Hollywood Sun Record and was published from 1936-70. Included international news on the front page, along with local news, similar in many aspects to what modern newspapers print. It was initially published by the Valley News Corp., of which the late Russell A. Quisenberry was president. Yoninah (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GRuban, are you there? Yoninah (talk) 14:49, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Ack! Sorry, completely missed this among other messages (an article of mine being nominated for deletion, an article subject writing for advice...) Will look. --GRuban (talk) 17:09, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. Fair warning, this will be my first Newspaper non-renewal, so there is some chance someone will pop up saying "no, you're doing this all wrong!". That said, though, I looked in the Internet Archive scanned records for such things, and found relatively few Valley Times copyrights at all, and no renewals. Even fewer Valley News.  Same for the Copyright Office Catalog  So, in short, yes, I would consider it not renewed. --GRuban (talk) 17:52, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for checking! Now, I'm wondering if you could do the upload for me, because what I really need is a crop of the man on the left, to put in the infobox of his article Paul F. Heard. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 19:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I actually don't have a Newspapers.com account; if you email me the image, I can try to crop, etc. I'll send you an email so you have something to respond to. --GRuban (talk) 23:03, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, here we go. Not the best picture, but much better than nothing. You probably want the whole thing for Second Chance (1950 film). --GRuban (talk) 02:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Just from idle curiosity, may I ask how someone who created hundreds of articles about Jewish personalities and neighborhoods has now gotten into developing a noticeable series of articles on relatively minor American Christian films? --GRuban (talk) 02:23, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the images! Yes, that's a valid question. Actually, it's been a domino effect. I've always been a film fan, but this winter I "discovered" films from the 1940s and really got into them. Barbara Stanwyck—wow! Then I came across James Dunn's Oscar-winning performance in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn and decided to see more of his films. Since I love writing and research, I also upgraded his page to GA status. In the process, I came across his film A Wonderful Life for the Protestant Film Commission, and since there was absolutely no mention of that agency on Wikipedia, decided to research and write about their films. I'm not so keen on the Christian messages, but I am interested in how they produced pretty good quality short films on low budgets. As soon as this coronavirus thing dies down and we can stop wearing masks outdoors, I hope to buy a good camera and return to taking pictures of Jerusalem historical neighborhoods. Best, Yoninah (talk) 13:08, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Sophia Kianni for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Sophia Kianni is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Sophia Kianni until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. MistyGraceWhite (talk) 16:07, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Help...yet again...
- I want to upload a derivative (cropped to only one image) but there appears to be an issue at Commons. BTW - have you applied for OTRS? The links provided tell us nothing...it is a UK cartoon and the author died in 1925. It needs verifiability that it's in the public domain. You are far better at zeroing in on this type of research than I - distractions plague me, and one would not think it a problem on a small island in the Dutch Caribbean...but the latter, in and of itself, explain the distraction. Atsme Talk 📧 17:20, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what's the specific (commons?) issue that someone is raising? It was uploaded by a respected editor 4 years ago stating that it was an old image. It certainly looks like an old image. It's archived here (which doesn't give the date, but does prove it was a Wellcome image). Here is an article that says that the author Stephen Baghot de la Bere died in 1927, and served in WWI, so seems quite likely to be the author. I don't see the issue. --GRuban (talk) 17:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * One problem is it looks like the source links are no longer valid and the Wellcome library appears to have changed how it handles images. There's a digitized version of the source publication at, I'm skimming it now to try to find the actual image. creffett (talk) 17:56, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, found the originals, they can be found at  (and the next page). Careful - that image viewer did a number on my browser's memory usage. The objection I could imagine being raised is that the "more information" tab on the page claims the license as CC-BY-NC 4.0; I'm not sure exactly what the legal implications of that claim are here since it's a (presumed) PD work and they're providing what is clearly a derivative work. creffett (talk) 18:15, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with Creffett and that's why I wanted a third head. Hopefully it won't turn into Lernaean Hydra. SMirC-mmm.svg Atsme Talk 📧 18:20, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

2channel
Hello! I was wondering, do you think I have a WP:COI as regards 2channel? Here are the main problems I see in the article:


 * We are not giving Hiroyuki Nishimura's claims enough, or any, weight. ja:2ちゃんねる is more neutral, which is really saying something. Even to say that the site has been rebranded as 5channel without further context is, in and of itself, WP:POV-pushy in my humble opinion.
 * The only mention to Nishimura's [2ch.sc], the other claimant to the "2channel" name, is in § History. It was later revealed that 2channel was suffering from financial setbacks prior to the takeover.&mdash;Nishimura specifically denies this in his legal briefs, and our citation here is a WP:SPS, a messageboard post by Watkins.
 * It is very unclear which parts of the article are historical, pre-succession controversy, and no longer apply.
 * § Impact on the Internet is laughable. Jim Watkins and co. are horrible at internet security, this I know from personal experience, but I have no idea how we could in any good conscience write that in wiki voice.

And here are some possible solutions:


 * Limit the scope of the 2channel article to pre-2014, pre-succession controversy only. 2channel is a historical, defunct message board. Create new articles, 5channel and 2ch.sc, or perhaps one for both, perhaps 2channel succession controversy.
 * Give 2ch.sc and Hiroyuki's claims to legitimacy much more weight, but allow the article to be about all three messageboards, viz., the defunct historical 2channel, 5channel, and 2ch.sc.

What do you think? If I start working on drafts, will you look them over? (Does it surprise you to find out I edit this site about as much as you do?) Psiĥedelisto (talk) 22:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry to double post&mdash;I decided it would be better to take this to the talk page. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 22:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)


 * In order:
 * Yes, I do think you have a conflict of interest. It's complicated, since the ownership has changed hands so many times, but between the facts that (1) you used to be in charge of a competitor (I guess; do image boards compete?), and (2) because you used to work on 2channel itself, and (3) you have an ongoing quite serious conflict with Watkins, a former owner, and (4) you're trying to boost the claims of Nishimura, who also has (had? Is it over, now that Watkins doesn't own 2chan?) a rather serious conflict with Watkins, specifically about 2chan, honestly, between all of those together, it's much safer to act as if you do.
 * I'm not actually much of a chan editor. You can look at my user page for my article-writing interests, and, to put it charitably, they're kind of all over the place. (Jack of all articles, master of none?) I wrote the article about you because you have a very interesting story, but I've never been that interested in the gritty details of who owns what web site.
 * If you write drafts in your userspace, I will read them over, and will offer advice, and I am a fairly experienced Wikipedia editor in general, so that might actually have some weight, but, as immediately above, I am not a subject matter expert. Even if I approve, it is quite possible the subject matter experts will have issues with them. Or maybe not - is 2chan a hotly edited article with lots of people regularly working on it, or do people leave it mostly alone? It seems to have only been edited 20 times in 2020, so unless they just think it's stable, it might be the latter.
 * Yes, it does greatly surprise me that you're an active Wikipedia editor! I always thought famous (well, at least Wikipedia-notable) people had their own fish to fry, rather than work on a volunteer encyclopedia. Glad to see you here! --GRuban (talk) 12:58, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

May
Thank you for article improvements in May! - DYK my list of people for whose life I'm thankful enough to improve their articles? - I have a FAC open, one of Monteverdi's exceptional works, in memory of Brian who passed me his collected sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

today a composer pictured who wrote a triple concerto for violin, harp and double bass, in honour of the composer who died and my brother who plays double bass. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

I Still Dream About You
Hi, I also pick up books from the used book store! And my new Newspapers.com account is so useful for finding reliable sources that don't appear on Google. Could you find a first-edition cover image for this novel? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a 2010 book, it's not going to be out of copyright. If you want a fair use image, you could just do an image search or go to Amazon or something, I don't think I have any special knowledge there.--GRuban (talk) 20:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I asked because you posted some Maeve Binchy book covers on articles that I wrote. But I'll look around. Best, Yoninah (talk) 20:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Articles for Creation: List of reviewers by subject notice
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A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you. I got carried away with the review, my initial goal was to make sure you weren't turning this into a coatrack for personal goals, but you've done a great job, and made it a comprehensive rewrite, so my comments have nw veered into improving the article more than just worrying about WP:COI. I have to say (and I hope this isn't getting too personal) that you are very thorough, and write well, quite different from what I would have expected from reading your previous writing while researching the article about you. Of course it's been 6 years, and writing forum posts is different from writing encyclopedia articles, but it's like you're a different person. Thank you for that as well. --GRuban (talk) 03:04, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your endless patience with me. I once again apologize for taking so long to source that Amezou information. Now just to wait for the GA review. Personally I think the reviewer will have an easy time, given your thoroughness. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 16:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Or, they could see it as a challenge to find something else to object to! --GRuban (talk) 18:39, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Yury Ponomaryov
Добрый день, коллега, мы с вами несколько раз пересекались на Commons, где я в основном работаю. Здесь я новичок, поэтому был бы благодарен, если вы как участник, владеющий русским языком, оценили бы обоснованность претензий участника, перенесшего мою статью без какого-либо обсуждения в черновик с обоснованием ''Undersourced, incubate in draftspace. Terrible referencing. First 6 refs are non-existent.'' Поскольку это далеко не так, я хотел бы получить ещё одно мнение - что именно в ней не так. Например, по книге я не понимаю претензий - да, её текст на английском языке не выложен в открытый доступ, но от этого она не перестаёт существовать, тем более что русский вариант на протяжении нескольких лет был доступен для скачивания на сайте автора:, и только сейчас с этим сайтом возникли какие-то проблемы, и до сих пор может быть скачан с сайта, где вряд ли соблюдены АП:. Относительно статьи в "Ведомостях" - - претензии вообще выглядят как минимум предвзятыми, если не абсурдными - это уважаемое авторитетное СМИ, где подробно описаны достижения сабжа. По каким-то отдельным ссылкам - действительно, только упоминания, но и цель их добавления - исключительно подтвердить попадание его имени в какой-либо список или подтвердить работу в какой-то конкретной должности. Заранее спасибо. С уважением, --VLu (talk) 06:00, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like User:Ymblanter accepted it. --GRuban (talk) 12:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Nina Demme
When you get a chance, can you look at the questions on the talk page about the photos? Thanks so much. SusunW (talk) 13:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅, you did better analysis than I could have. --GRuban (talk) 15:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I sincerely doubt that. Photographs in this period always make me nervous, so I always want someone to look at them and confirm I'm not way off. I appreciate your skills. SusunW (talk) 15:17, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Sophia Kianni
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:01, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Works of art
I just finished an article on Nesta Obermer. She was at one point the partner of Gluck (painter) and with her, one of the subjects of iconic painting. I cannot figure out if it is a violation of "limited use" for the painting to appear on both articles. Is there a rule about whether twice, exceeds the limit? SusunW (talk) 15:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, in fact the relevant guideline, Non-free content criteria is pretty clear that using the same file in multiple articles is common. Criterion #7, says "One-article minimum. Non-free content is used in at least one article", and Enforcement says "A file with a valid non-free-use rationale for some (but not all) articles it is used in will not be deleted. Instead, the file should be removed from the articles for which it lacks a non-free-use rationale, or a suitable rationale added." If this painting is one of the things Obermer is best known for, I think you have a good fair use justification. --GRuban (talk) 15:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! I think until I wrote the article, it was probably the "only" thing she was known for in the modern era, well, except the relationship that produced the painting. Fortunately, there were ample materials available to recover her much more complicated and full life. SusunW (talk) 15:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think complicated lives are your specialty. From looking at your articles, a reader would get the impression that "typical" heterosexual monogamy is very rare! --GRuban (talk) 15:57, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And you know, that is so weird, as it is not what attracts me to writing about someone. I find a story that seems notable and once I start peeling back the layers, voilà! I mean like starting "the egg lady", Skarzhynska, it was all about those eggs. The rest just happened. I have come to believe that life has always been far more complex than history has shown. We like things in nice tidy categories, which is rarely what happens in life. SusunW (talk) 16:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

File:James Dunn, William Bishop and Michael O'Shea in "It's a Great Life".jpg
Hi, I just uploaded this image from e-bay. I licensed it as PD-US-not renewed, but on second thought, it looks like a screen grab. I'm wondering if you could check for me whether the NBC series It's a Great Life (TV series) had its copyright renewed? If not, how would I license this file? Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's what I do, for Copyright renewal in the United States: for works (books and films), with US copyright notices from 1925-1963, the renewal will be about 28 years after initial publication. https://cocatalog.loc.gov/ is the official place. Renewal registration numbers will start with RE. Looking there, I see 25 entries that look like renewals for individual episodes of the show They say things like

Type of Work:	Motion Picture Registration Number / Date:	RE0000183902 / 1983-12-13 Renewal registration for: LP0000009967 / 1955-12-04 Title:	The Crystal ball. By Raydic Corporation. Series:	It’s a great life Copyright Claimant:	Ray Singer, Dick Chevillat, Famous Artists Agency, Inc. & Noel Singer (PWH) .
 * The dates match, and our article It's a Great Life (TV series) says "Created by: Dick Chevillat Ray Singer", so I'm pretty sure this is an episode of the show. So looks like at least many episodes were renewed, possibly all. If we wanted earlier than that, through 1978, we'd look in Internet Archive Copyright renewal records, https://archive.org/details/copyrightrecords; search in text, not metadata, look up to 28 years after initial publication. I can find the original registration there, for example. Sorry. --GRuban (talk) 10:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I see. So is it fair use, or should I delete it?
 * I really want some images from James Dunn's career in the 1950s and 1960s. I also found these images] from someone's private collection; I guess we can't use these either? Yoninah (talk) 23:53, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I think we should delete it. Our Fair Use standards are pretty high, and it's hard to argue that this specific scene from this TV show is the iconic image for this TV show. Same for any private collections. You could, of course, email the owner of the private collection and ask them to release the image, something line Example requests for permission. I admit, my success rate when I've asked similarly is not great, though not nil. Maybe 20%: about two thirds of those I've asked don't write back, and a third of those who do write back say no. But the picture at the top of Modest Stein was released by an heir of his! So while you shouldn't count on it, it might be worth sending an email. --GRuban (talk) 21:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll delete the TV image. Will see about the private negatives. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:01, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Another question: Can I upload this image under PD-US-not renewed? I found the film's license renewed in that link you sent me. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 19:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This seems to be a publicity still, correct, not a frame or screenshot from the film itself? If so, then it would need a separate copyright, and copyright renewal, from the film, and, as per our article, probably didn't get one. Do make an honest effort to look for a copyright renewal of the photo approximately 28 years after the film, so 1980-88, but if you can't find one, then you can mark it PD-US-non renewed, just specify it's a publicity still, and not a frame from the movie, in the description. --12:50, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * But in the whole section above where you taught me how to upload press photos, I was given to understand that these press photos are not copyright-renewed and therefore could be used with a "copyright not renewed" notice! Yoninah (talk) 13:22, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. That's what I'm saying. If you made a good faith effort to search, and didn't find a specific copyright renewal for this press photo, you can use it. --GRuban (talk) 13:40, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. I will search for copyright renewals on the photos I've uploaded. If I have trouble, I'll be back! Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 13:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Can I just say I am really appreciative for the GRuban School of Photography Analysis. I learn as much from asking my own questions, as I do from reading your exchanges with Yoninah. Thank you so much for your patience as a teacher. SusunW (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Leda Valladares
I'm in a quandry. I do not like the lede photo in the wp.es article, she looks like a hunchback. Ian doesn't like the lede photo I am using in the wp.en article. Soooo, I checked on the internet and find this cassette cover from 1964 and this book cover from 1971. While Argentine photographs are only copyrighted for 25 years after publication, does the cover image on a book/album count as a photograph, or is it part of the copyrighted book/album itself? If those aren't usable, there is one on pg 13 in the PDF link of Orquera which identifies as having been published in La Gaceta (Tucumán) in 1956. Can I accept that as accurate proof of publishing? Can it not be so yellow? (I don't really like it as an image of her, but if it is usable and can not be yellow, I could crop her out of the other photo that has both her and Walsh and use this as their duo photo.) SusunW (talk) 20:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Will look. Meanwhile, the hunchback comment reminds me of a few years back when I was at a talk by an author who had no picture on her Wikipedia article, and after the talk I asked and got permission to take a picture of her for our article. She was wearing a one-shoulder backpack which made her tilt to one side, so I asked her if she would take it off, "as otherwise it looks like you have scoliosis", I said. "I do have scoliosis", she said. --GRuban (talk) 20:53, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh my. I'd have died. Perhaps Valladares did, she often sat in a hunched forward position. I assumed it was from slinging a guitar, but who knows? SusunW (talk) 04:06, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, the sweet oblivion of death was unavailable at the time, so I just mumbled something apologetic, and went back to staring at my smart phone. Back to your question. As you write, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory/Argentina tells us that the Argentina copyright on photos is only for 25 years. It's pretty rare for photographs to be published alone; unless they're just published as framed artwork, they're almost always published as part of a larger work, whether a book, newspaper, or magazine, so I'm reading that to say that the cover images will still be subject to this shorter expiration date. This is confirmed by the fact that our https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:PD-AR-Photo has 25,052 (!) images, which are clearly not all individual artwork, they're most if not all clearly from magazines or newspapers, including many that are obviously magazine covers including the letterhead, so I'm not the only one who is reading it in this way. So I think all these images will be fine under that tag. Now, in theory, I think we might also need a PD-US reason (even though most of the Category:PD-AR-Photo don't), so you can also add https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-1996 since they were public domain in Argentina in 1996. Yes, I would accept the claim that the yellow image is from the given newspaper. If you really want it, I can probably find a way to make it less yellow (probably by reducing the color, back to black and a slightly greyish white) but since you like the other images better I'll wait for you to ask. --GRuban (talk) 12:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yay. That was how I was reading it too, but I didn't want to assume it, nor just blindly accept it because one of the photos for her was already an album cover. If you can make the one less yellow, i.e. black and white/grey, then I'd be happy to have it. (I much prefer black and white photos, they give so much more interest to me. Color distracts me from looking at all the details.) So, do you want to just load them all or do you want me to load the first two? Also, I'm polling, which of the first two do you like as a lede photo? SusunW (talk) 13:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Decolored and uploaded the formerly yellow photograph. I'll leave you the honor of uploading the others. --GRuban (talk) 14:48, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. It looks so much better! SusunW (talk) 15:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

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