User talk:Gadget850/Archive 2007

Merge or expand
Should this The Wolf Cub's Handbook be merged somewhere or tagged for expanding? I think we have something related to it somewhere.Rlevse 14:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

DESA list
I asked for a new DESA list from national. Hope they send it. Rlevse 22:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

new book about Eagle Scouts
Hello Gadget850,

Perhaps this new book should be added to the Eagle Scout entry?

Townley, Alvin [2006-12-26]. Legacy of Honor: The Values and Influence of America's Eagle Scouts. St. Martin's Press. ISBN 0-312-36653-1.

Just a suggestion... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JGHowes (talk • contribs) 15:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

User:Rlevse has this and recommended it to me. I'm going to check my Scout Shop and see if it is in stock. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You can also get it from Amazon.com. I'll add it to the Eagle Scout article as a ref, I've already used it in bio articles and the list of notable eagles article.Rlevse 15:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thorsness
I fixed his article and added to notagle Eagle list. But I'm not sure what to do with his entry on the notable Eagle talk page. Those say to move to "investigated" list only if they fail notability. But the "investigated" list has people who have articles and are on the notable list...??? Rlevse 18:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Eagle list

 * I've afraid this "These entries require investigation. If an entry fails verification, move it to the list of investigated entries and note the reason." on the talk page still confuses me vis a vis the investigated page. Perhaps this blurd should say something like "....When investigation is complete, pass or fail, move to the investigated entries page.". Rlevse 02:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)...I've noticed some inconsistencies have crept into the article, ex: Medal of Honor is there 5 times, sometimes linked, some not. One is only supposed to link things the first occurrence. How do you want to proceed?Rlevse 02:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I was working on a bit of cleanup today on the talk page, but work got busy. I'm going to clarify those guidelines in the near future. My original intent was for the Investigated page to stand as a record of failed, unverified and non-notable entries. I'm also going to clarify cites: we do not need an article on the person, but we do need a cite. This means that many of the folks we removed because of redlinks can go back on if we deen them notable. Go ahead and fix any wikilink or other issues as you see them. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wagner was on the list when it made FA- he had an article at the time,. It looks like it has been deleted, so he should come off the list. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

LFL
See Exploring (Learning for Life) talk on rename.Rlevse 20:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XI - January 2007
The January 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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Awards categories
Actually, I was working through many of the categories of the articles listed at the top of Special:Mostcategories and systematically identifying and deleting unviable categories. Some of the category lists are nightmarish masses of blue links (such as in George H. W. Bush. However, I deliberately avoided nominating Category:Silver Buffalo awardees for deletion until a few similar categories worked through WP:CFD, mainly because of the previous discussion on the category.

I am honestly glad that you are taking the time to discuss the issue rather than just automatically deferring to the previous discussion. As a solution, I would recommend creating bulleted "awards and other recognitions" sections within individual people's articles rather than using the categories. Consider which would be more useful: A "Silver Buffalo awardees" category lost within the mass at the bottom of George H. W. Bush, or a bulleted item explaining that Bush was awarded the Silver Buffalo Award from the Boys Scouts of America.

I hope these comments are useful. Dr. Submillimeter 20:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I prefer to work through these things instead of knee-jerking through life. I have worked through several AfDs and CfDs and am always amazed at some of the vitriolic comments.  I am a bit bothered that we just went through this three months ago and it is up again.  This does take time away from other efforts.
 * I still think there should be some sort of work group for this. There are categories for a huge number of awards, medals, orders and decorations.  Deciding which awards to keep and which to delete is a purely subjective subjective call.
 * If there is a consensus to replace award categories with some sort of awards list within an article, then this should be done as a template- perhaps as a supplemental template to use with one of the Category:People infobox templates). --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes- I can see how this can work. Instead of the categories hiding at the bottom, we can have an awards infobox near the top of the article, under the bio infobox. Then we have one article on the award and a list of recipients. That will be much neater. I need to look at how infoboxes work. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Silver Buffalo awardees discussion
Thank you for taking the time to understand the problem and for posing a reasonable solution instead of simply voting to keep the older category. I am disappointed that many of the other people who wanted to keep the category did not seem to consider the problems with the functionality of this category or award categories in general. Dr. Submillimeter 17:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I am disappointed on both sides of the argument. The reasoning for the deletion was not well presented, so it took quite a while to understand. ReeseM's comments and veiled accusations put a lot of folks on the defensive. Unfortunately, as a group, the Scouting project is continually on the defensive as we get a lot of vandalism and deletionism (I once created a full article only to have it put up for AfD within an hour, it went to GA a few weeks later). I try to work against that, but it does get frustrating.

As the highest award in the largest youth group in the US, calling the Silver Buffalo "trivial" also makes me a bit itchy. I could also see that this would lead to further issues down the line- if Silver Buffalo is trivial, then what of Bronze Wolf,

The proposed solution still needs to get run up the flagpole. I'm sure the folks at WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals would have thoughts on this. There are a huge number of Category:Awards, many of which have associated recipient categories. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

You may want to talk to WikiProject Biography about your infobox idea. They may be an even better WikiProject to discuss this with, as they take an active interest in biolgraphies. I would be willing to help explain the need for these infoboxes if necessary. Dr. Submillimeter 11:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - February 2007
The February 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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BSA style guide
Thx for the info. I'll copyedit Order of the Arrow accordingly...JGHowes 17:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Tiger (disambiguation)
Not a problem. Glad I could help. I frequently link WP:MOSDP, but oftentimes, it's just something mentioned at WP:DAB. So check both places. Memorize both and you'll be an expert on Dab Pages. I still have to reference both frequently. McKay 22:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Clive Cussler
I'm 99.9% sure he is. I remember reading it in his autobiography. I'll double check tho. Splamo 01:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Dresden Files
Ed, nice to see you're a fan too. :) Chris 02:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes- I had just started reading the novels when the show was announced. I was starting to be a bit disappointed in the show until "Walls". With "Walls", I started to pay attention to Harry's monologues. This reminds me a lot of the old Kolchak: The Night Stalker series from when I was a kid. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the tips! Bigcurrens 19:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies
Hi! could you revist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies and join in the discussion if you think it's slanted against the BSA? Thanks -GCW50 GCW50 19:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007
The March 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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BSA Scouting vs Scout
Sorry about that - those two weren't on my watchlist and they'd slipped my mind. -- Horus Kol Talk 13:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

No problem. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America)
I've listed this on Outriggr's page (he's helped before) and at: WikiProject_League_of_Copyeditors/proofreading. Rlevse 14:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Pershing II and unrelated BSA question
I've read some discussions about NATO strategy in the event of an attack by the Warsaw Pact circa 1980-88. If the Soviets had launched a major invasion of West Germany I got the impression NATO thought it's forces on the Iron Curtain would be quickly overwhelmed. Assuming that was correct I have three questions I've been wondering about for years:(Of course I understand if you can't talk about it, there are two things the US Government keeps quiet about. Nuclear strategy/operations/procedures and Area 51 (rightly so on both counts). I've also been editing L. Ron Hubbard, I don't know about Scientology but the man was full of crap. He claims, among other things, to have been the youngest Eagle Scout in the BSA. I used to be a scout, (made it to star before I found out I truly hate "organized" camping in the desert), and don't remember any mention of such an accomplishment (in fact the guys I know who did make Eagle, age wasn't really recorded. I thought I remembered an age requirement of like 12 or 13 but could be wrong.) Thanks, Anynobody 04:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What were you (Pershing II units) supposed to do in the event of a conventional invasion? I have always assumed the answer to be; pack up and head West (I've also assumed the French would understand that letting IRBMs fall into the hands of the Soviets is not a good thing. (Not that they could be fired against us, but we didn't need them figuring out how our missiles or warheads worked).
 * What if it was an invasion, and tactical nuclear attack? Would the Pershing units have fired at enemy forces on West German soil, or were the targets behind the lines?


 * There is a bunch of stuff not in the Pershing article yet, as I don't have sources. Pershing's mission was to deter a conventional assault.  We never had anything near parity with the Soviets as far as infantry and tank units.  Pershing would have stayed where it was and targeted tank columns, airfields and the like.  We had hot missiles on Combat Alert Status sites, and other missiles in "shoot and scoot" positions in the field.  I just found that the article has the coordinates for the CAS sites.  I'm slowly working on the Pershing article- the other missile articles focus on the tech stuff, but there is more than that.  Pershing had a mission, a unique organization and a whole lot of people and I want to try to record that.  I'm starting to think that I am going to have to split the article though, and I'm trying to outline that.  Pershing replaced Redstone, and a bunch of the people moved to the new system.  I once worked for a DA civilian who served on Redstone and Jupiter- I wish I could remember all of those stories he told.


 * Hubbard wrote some pretty good F&SF (Slaves of Sleep is a classic). We decided to not include claims like this on List of notable Eagle Scouts, as there is no way to substantiate them.  Hubbard would have made Eagle Scout around 1924- the only requirement then was to earn 21 merit badges.  There has never been an age requirement per se- even with the tenure and other requirements; today you could potentially make Eagle at 12 years, 11 months. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

His writing style really wasn't my cup of tea, but I understand what you mean about his Sci Fi writing. (He just happened to extend his fiction writing into his history, ie the youngest Eagle scout claim.) I'm happy you mentioned there being no age minimum, I wanted to say a friend of mine got his Eagle at around 12 and 1/2 but I thought I must've been remembering it wrong. I have another BSA question though, now that my memory has been jogged. I don't expect you to know what happened in the case I'm about to mention, rather if you've heard of similar concerns. The kid I mentioned was the Scoutmaster's son, and there was concern among some parents and scouts that the process was "rigged" somehow if I remember correctly. The timeframe was late 80's early 90's. Could the process have been rigged? Anynobody 23:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Triad mission unmentioned
I hadn't noticed it previously, but you are correct about the missions of the men involved receiving little or no discussion. This is across the complete triad: Minuteman (missile)-Titan (rocket family) - B-52 Stratofortress - SAC - Ohio class submarine. Maybe a subpage should be added under a "Mission and operations" section of each. Technically the triad has never completed a "mission" (thankfully) but they did spend A LOT of time and effort being ready in case they had to. I'm more of an Air Force/Navy knowledge bank so I'll show you (informally) what I mean with B-52 Stratofortress crews: == SAC B-52 mission and operations ==
 * SAC B-52 crews either spent a lot of time flying circles in the air, or waiting around at their bases for World War III. There was a rotation of alert air wings, etc. etc.

Did this make sense? The mission and the men really do need to be mentioned, when talking about WMD who holds they keys is notable and interesting IMHO. Usually citing a movie as a reference to the military is a bad idea, but I think a good example of the nuclear mission was the opening scene of WarGames. In case you haven't seen it, the scene follows a USAF Titan missile crew going onto a 24 hour watch at a LCC. They're chatting and suddenly an alarm and code order a missile launch... in case you haven't seen it I won't spoil anything else. I always imagined that men responsible for nuclear weapons went to work everyday hoping they wouldn't have to do their job. Anynobody 23:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If you are asking if a young man could earn Eagle Scout without doing the requirements in full, then yes, it is possible. The process is only as good as the people who are testing and checking.  I've had Scouts earn a merit badge, and in casual conversation realize they really did not do all of the requirements- it was just easier for the counselor to sign it off.  I hope this is the exception, as these young men do not learn what they should.


 * Shall we play a game? I remember watching it and thinking the Air Force had those cushy bunkers while we had vans sitting in the middle of a field of mud.  The Air Force had silos- we had barns.  I was a technician, but none of us wanted to see a tactical round fly.--Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The Eagle issue, please don't get me wrong, the other Eagle scouts I saw get it honestly earned the honor. The Scoutmaster in question was replacing a guy who's son had already earned Eagle and was getting out of the program. Both the ex Scoutmaster and his son were probably the poster of what a Scout/Scoutmaster should be. Essentially we had two extremes, a perfect leader and Eagle and then their negative exception counterparts. (I actually am happy that events transpired this way, it showed me what the difference between a good leader and a bad one. (It also taught me that even a "good" organization can be "bad" when the right "wrong" circumstances happen.)

I'm happy you've seen the movie, and you're right USAF launch controllers had a cushy work environment. (I think Michael Madsen should probably have tried explaining: "If you don't turn your key, millions of Americans will die for nothing because the guys in Russia already turned their keys, sir.")

Though you probably had an easier time as a technician than the AF guys doing a similar job in a missile silo. (Both USA and USAF techs had it easier than the guy on a Navy SSBN. When a sub sinks at operating depths, the probability of survival is very small. Don't get me wrong, all jobs involve danger, and nuclear weapons, but the sub also has a nuclear reactor too. The techs making sure the missiles work don't have to deal with the reactor of course, but if something goes wrong with the nuclear propulsion system a missile tech is on the same ship.) Anynobody 02:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Jupiter_size_comparison.jpg|thumb]]

Just found this comparison between Redstone, Jupiter and Pershing on Commons.--Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Were all the Pershing missiles tactical nukes, or were there conventional warheads too? Anynobody 21:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Supposedly P1 had a conventional warhead option, but I don't think it was ever deployed. Otherwise, it was a W50 (atomic weapon) for P1/P1A and a W85 for P2 (W86 was canceled).. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your time answering my questions, I've talked to AF retirees from SAC, and Navy SSBNs. You will be the complete Triad, so to speak. Did you set the yield, or was that done by the officers who launched it? (Or was that you too? Going back to the WarGames image applied to reality, besides the two guys in the LCC there would have been dozens of technicians to perform maintenance. I have no clue how Army launch operations work, but I'm assuming there were the guys with keys and those who made the rockets go (as an over simplification). Thanks again, Anynobody 22:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The W50 (Whiskey 50) came in 60, 200 or 400 kT versions. I guess you have to know what target you wanted before you mated the warhead.  The W85 had "dial-a-yield"- you could set it from 5 to 50 kT by entering the yield on the Launch Control Panel.  Each round (launcher with missile) would have had a senior NCO; each platoon of 3 missiles had a warrant officer and a captain or senior lieutenant  (see the article for the bumped up officer ranks).    With P2, there were several elements- a target sheet with coordinates, yield and so forth that had to be punched in, a targeting tape (a DC-120 tape with the target radar map, a PAL code (that link is scary) that had to be entered before launch and one key and a launch button on the Remote Launch Box (OK- the Remote Boxes initially all had the same key- the CG about stroked out over that.  I told the engineers at Martin Marietta that the FA guys wouldn't like it).


 * It occurs to me that you might just be interested in the Pershing Wiki . I generally update it when someone on the Pershing Professionals Association asks some sort of question and the guys fiddle around with answers.  I'm the PPA historian by the way.  You want manuals, photos, news articles- we have it on the document site.     --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the wiki you linked. I've put it on my favorites and will be intersted to see new updates as they come. I just want to thank you again for taking the time to answer all my questions so thoroughly. "(a DC-120 tape with the target radar map, a PAL code)" this level of technical detail is exactly what I was hoping for. (Do you suppose the Pershing was the model the makers of the Superman: The Movie movie intended to represent the two missiles Lex Luthor retargeted (Hackensack and the San Andreas fault)? Anynobody 01:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Superman did not use a Pershing- I'm not sure what it was. You certainly could not open the side and reprogram it. On the other hand, the missile from Weird Science is a Pershing- I have a copy of the Time magazine that they used. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The missiles in Superman were a bit inaccurate (500 megatons, roadside programmable, one was a Navy missile) but the model they used sure looked like one, or maybe a Pershing/Jupiter combo (Perpiter). You're right about the one in Weird Science, they scaled it about right too. Anynobody 02:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ribbon for today's events
FYI, if you would like to add a ribbon to your user page in memory of those who were lost in today's events, you can use Virginia Tech ribbon to place a small orange and maroon ribbon in the top right corner of your user page (similar to the administrator icon). --BigDT 04:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Done.Rlevse 09:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That article, Virginia Tech massacre has thousands of edits already.Rlevse 09:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. We had some Scouts and church youth down there.  They are all fine thank God.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 09:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I know a kid, one of our Eagles, that lives in that dorm, but he was off campus then.Rlevse 11:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:OnMyHonor4k.jpg)
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Notability
I would include something in the style guide mentioning that for most campsites it may be better to simply include some paragraphs in the main Scouting in xxx article rather than create a stub article which won't grow at all. Only those sites with a history that extends to prior the formation of the Scout Movement and/or those sites with extreme significance in the history of Scouting (for example, Gilwell Park and Philmont Scout Ranch, warrant their own articles... -- Horus Kol Talk 01:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Background
This is an evolving draft to form a consensual guideline for including Scouting articles of a non-national level. This language will eventually be placed at WikiProject_Scouting/RulesStandards.

Current (old) standards
Note: This section was written specifically with the BSA in mind, but its basic principles apply to other countries and major Scouting organizations.
 * Since council boundaries change and councils merge and get divided, articles on regional Scouting shall be structured by State, such as Scouting in Virginia. The councils, districts, lodges, and smaller Scouting units in that state should be covered within that article. Generally, an entity smaller than a Council (such as a troop, pack, or district) should not have its own article, unless it has done something truly exceptional or unique, or is historically exceptionally significant.
 * A Council, council camp/reservation, or OA Lodge may have its own article if it meets standard wikipedia criteria for having its own article. Factors include length, notability, comprehensiveness, and overall quality. In such as case, a summary and "main article" link should be created in the state article in line with standard Wiki practice, such as the Tidewater Council article and link in the Scouting in Virginia article. Articles covering more than one state, such as Tidewater Council, should be mentioned in both state articles (here, NC and VA). A camp/reservation run and supported by a district is a district level camp and should be covered in the council article.

Comments

 * I think we should develop a new infobox. One that allows lat and long coordinates. --evrik (talk) 00:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * See Template_talk:Infobox_WorldScouting for that very discussion. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Any other thoughts? --evrik (talk) 16:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Just given this my first read through and three points immediately spring to mind.


 * 1) In the proposed text for Category:Boy Scouts of America Local Councils, it could be interpreted that the state-based articles are about the BSA in that state. I suggest a small alteration: …has developed state-related articles on Scouting including relevant Boy Scouts of America councils….
 * 2) The Standards section is confusing. It tries to cover both articles about organisations and campsites at the same time and does it badly. The material needs re-arrangement.
 * 3) Has the sentence This section was written specifically with the BSA in mind, but its basic principles apply to other countries and major Scouting organizations previously been thought through and debated? If it has, then I don't want to get into a boring repetition of the issues to come back to the same conclusions. If it hasn't, then I think that the idea that the basic principles apply to other countries and major Scouting organizations needs some looking at. Kingbird 19:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The "current standards" section is the current text; "New standards" is the proposed update. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the first suggestion.
 * Do you want to take a crack at reorganizing the standards?
 * This is BSA specific. That langauge to mke it a model for other countries is what currently exists. --evrik (talk) 20:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've made a first attempt at reorganising the Standards section. I tried not to change the meaning of any of the text, but you should check carefully that I've achieved this. If nothing else, it'll tell us where the standard isn't explained properly! Kingbird 19:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * To enlarge upon point 3 I made above regarding the words the basic principles apply to other countries and major Scouting organizations, I think this is a potentially dangerous statement because its vagueness. For example, is the by-state approach one of the basic principles or not? This approach has worked well for the USA. I don't think we should be too quick to insist that all countries organise their local information by whatever the next smallest governance district is of that country (counties, municipalities, shires, departments, provinces, cantons etc). The States of the US have properties that make them suitable for this role. Let's take things as they come for other countries and keep things open. Kingbird 20:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with the language as it stands. I sense that you fear this standard may be used elsewhere. --evrik (talk) 21:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice reorg. --evrik (talk) 14:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Been a busy week.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * So far, the changes implemeneted at Notability_%28organizations_and_companies%29 seem to have held. I think these changes we have made are in line with those. evrik (talk) 16:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Template
We might want to consider templates for these articles similar to Biography. Basically you subs't the template and fill in the blanks. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea, but would the WP:Athena effect people know about it? Would it be worth the effort? evrik (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:Boy Scouts of America Local Councils

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Current (old) text
The Scouting WikiProject endeavors to have state-related articles on the Boy Scouts of America rather than 300+ council articles. Council-related stubs, as well as articles on lodges, camps and districts will immediately be suggested to merge into the proper state article. Unit articles will be suggested for deletion unless notability can be proven. If your council crosses state boundaries, choose the state the main council office is located in.

Proposed text
The Scouting WikiProject has developed state-related articles on Scouting including relevant Boy Scouts of America councils rather than 300+ individual council articles. Council-related stubs, as well as articles on lodges, camps and districts will immediately be suggested to merge into the proper state article until it is no longer a stub. Unit articles will be suggested for deletion unless notability can be proven.

Comments

 * I like Gadget's proposal. Can I move for them to be speedily accepted? --evrik (talk) 00:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've updated the proposed text with my suggestion (originally made as a comment above). Do you still like it? Kingbird 19:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * are you refering to categories?--evrik (talk) 20:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No and Yes. I understand that this text will appear on a Category page. In changing the text I am referring to the idea that when a person gets to any State's page, they'll find information about all kinds of Scouting, not just the BSA.
 * There being no objection ... evrik (talk) 16:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)
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List of notable Scouts
I rolled back your entry- if you read the section lead-in, Eagle Scouts do not go on this list as they have their own list (this list is already starting to eat the article). You do need a citation for Leonard H. Tower Jr. on the Eagle Scout list or it will get removed. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * thanks. added a ref citation, though I don't undertand why the WikiLink to his WikiPedia article isn't enough. 18.56.0.32 21:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

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Cub Scout Ranks
The diamond pattern in the cub scout advancement image is not right. See, which is the current inspection sheet, for a full discussion. --NThurston 18:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah- I got distracted! Thanks- it is fixed now. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Bronze_Award_BSA.png
I think it would fit better in the current formatting if the medal and ribbons were side-by-side, making all of the images the same height when scaled the same. --NThurston 14:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And Image:Venturing_Leadership_Award_BSA.png too. --NThurston 14:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * As I look at it now, the goal ought to be to have the medals all the same height, and all with no "header" space in the image (properly cropped). It would look OK to have the ribbons or knots in a row below them.  --NThurston 14:48, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I just edited those images. My goal was to have the images at 140px wide, optimized for infobox use so images would appear similar.


 * I think bronze is good, but the knot should go under the leadership awards. I did resize the medals in that image to match the others.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * So far so good. I agree about the knot going under the leadership awards, same for silver and Ranger. As for sizing, is it possible to crop them a little more equally so that the tops line up?  I think if you do that, we can adjust the display size to have them line up really well. Thanks.  BTW, what do you use to create/edit PNG files with transparent backgrounds?  --NThurston 15:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok- let me fiddle with those a bit. I use Corel Paint Shop Pro X.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Looks good! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:18, 30 May 2007 (UTC) Take a look at this: User:Gadget850/Sandbox2. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Advancement
I'm glad you know what you're doing, because I don't. Keep up the good work! &mdash;ScouterSig 17:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The break is documented at Picture tutorial. Thanks.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot
BetacommandBot has visited my talk page several times recently ... in response, this is what I put up after an image was tagged: Image:Chester County Council CSP.png. --evrik (talk) 17:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah- no big deal, it is just a bit of maintenance we need to do. For this one, I cribbed from the Microsoft image.  You do realize that the CCC image has two sets of rationales and one says it is a film?  :-)  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

That's what i get for copying and not reading ... --evrik (talk) 18:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Been there, done that. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Scoutlogo rationales
You may want to put the rationale on a separate template that can be subst'ed. The bots aren't going to realize that there is a rationale that is part of the template - they are only going to see a single template and not care what is on it. Image copyright tags can't be substed for a variety of reasons - it messes up a ton of processes - but a separate tag with the rationale on it could be. --BigDT 15:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, that is what I am doing. If you look at Image:2005 National Scout Jamboree.png for example, you will see a plain text rationale.  Chris added a rationale to the Scoutlogo template, but as discussed on Template talk:Scoutlogo, I didn't think that would work.  Upon reflection, I fear that folks not in the know may use the template, see the rationale and not realize that it is not sufficient.  I suggest we continue this discussion on that talk page so we can clear this up.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Are we done
User:Gadget850/Camps Can we declare this finished and post it? --evrik (talk) 17:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I like Ed's work on this. It says pretty much the same thing as the current guideline, but is more detailed. It also uses terms used in America. More thoughts guys?Rlevse 16:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * How about we run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it- put it up for general review. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * okay by me.--evrik (talk) 16:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Sea Scouting (Boy Scouts of America)
Took a look at the insignia you added. Looks good. Will have to check in the article if we define what is meant by 'commodore' and 'director' at the squadron thru fleet levels. --Emb021 19:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)
The May 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 14:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

YPP
Actually they came from an uncopyrighted council website. THe YPP is not strictly copyrighted; BSA makes it available for other youth organizations to use. GCW50


 * Continued at User talk:GCW50 --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * then feel free to edit it further without deleting the basic concepts involved, but make sure it shows the extent with which BSA has approached the problem, far better and earlier than any other youth organization. The slanted Sex Abuse in BSA article quotes Landing of the FBI. They fail to mention that Landing helped write the BSA program!!!! GCW50

Orphan
When you orphan some of the images, it can be diconcerting. Would you consider adding the Vector version available template to help understand why you're orphaning an image? --evrik (talk) 15:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Obsolete is probably better since many of them are not vector. It took me fracking hours to find this- the media templates are not well categorized at all.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Fine by me. Did you get my other note about User:Gadget850/Camps? --evrik (talk) 18:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. I have this thing called work, and we have folks on vacation.  :-) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're too busy ... I can post it ... --evrik (talk) 03:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Order of the Arrow sashes.png
Hi. Can you add a source to Image:Order of the Arrow sashes.png? (In other words, did it come from the OA website or from a personally taken photo?) Thanks. --BigDT 20:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * How's that? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. --BigDT 20:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

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L Ron Hubbard
Is there solid evidence that L Ron Hubbard was ever an Eagle? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerjharris (talk • contribs)


 * It is listed in every biography, even those that attempt to denigrate or debunk him. We declined to list him as "the youngest Eagle Scout" (as his official biographies do) as there is no proof.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 04:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

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 * I added a rationale for you, but you need to go back, look it over, and add at least the source.Rlevse 10:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but I'm going to convert this anyway. Just popped in for a supply run. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Obsoleted by SVG version. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI (June 2007)
The June 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 13:49, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Eagle Scout
I'm working a backlog of potential entries for List of Eagle Scouts (Boy Scouts of America). I need a good reference before we can add Wayne Ray to the list. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 09:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC) (deleted personal e-mails) That will not meet Verifiability. We need something published like a newspaper article. It does not have to be web accessible if we have the full cite. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh gotcha, that was back in 1968 or 69, I only have that newspaper article, not much related to Scouting just articles and reviews and interviews on my website wayneray.ca/indexx.html, sorry WayneRay 03:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)WayneRay
 * If you scan the article, it can be put on WikiSource and used as a ref. Rlevse 09:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added the scanned newspaper article and as you may be able to see both the Eagle Scout ceremony photo and the Queen Scout photo are the same person, I hope this helps. Photo is on both Commons and wikipedia User page and article page Wayne Ray WayneRay 18:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)WayneRay

Hate to be picky, but the Eagle Scout photo just shows some Scouts, candles and a flag (and what looks to me like a typical 70s military classroom). There is nothing that screams "Eagle Scout". --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Certificate? Wallet card?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hahaha I didn't say it was anything in particularly great, I was asked to scan and post, it's a whatever thing and a long time ago. Good luck with the project WayneRay 02:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)WayneRay

Recipients of the silver buffalo award...
Heya, are you sure that this is notable enough the warrant its own article? The Silver Buffalo Award article already lists notable recipients. I'm not sure an exhaustive list for this particular award is encyclopedic. - super &beta;&epsilon;&epsilon; cat 23:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Far more notable than all the lists of mundane TV shows on wiki. Rlevse 00:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The notability of other lists has no bearing on this one. If you feel another list is not notable, nominate it for cleanup or deletion. - super &beta;&epsilon;&epsilon; cat 00:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the main article still needs development and growth. There are currently 192 bluelinks in the new list- this is far too large for the article as I see it. There are also at least 20 redlinks that I feel should be developed into articles someday. After viewing a number of CfDs, there seems to be some move towards lists instead of categories, but I have no idea where that is going. My thoughts are to move the list to Recipients of the Silver Buffalo Award and get a consensus for how we handle redlinks and other issues. If it gets chopped to the point where it fits into the main article, then so be it; we can always move the full list into a talk archive for reference. You are correct in that this list should stand on its own merits. Let's move this to the article talk page so we can get a dialog with more interested folks. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A list of recipients of a national level award for those who've helped young people is notable. That's all there is to it.Rlevse 02:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

This is on the article talk page now. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:07, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Let me know if you need additional support for this article. The Silver Buffalo Award article certainly provides enough justification; the list is simply complementary information. The list certainly should be on Wikipedia. Dr. Submillimeter 13:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Scoutlogo mess
Take a look at the mess Cydebot is making on the scoutlogo tagging.Rlevse 11:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. Now that I reflect, I did bring this up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting, but that was back in April.  A bit of notice on the template talk page would have been courteous and allowed us to prepare.  I had other plans here today, but...  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What a mess, and yes I pinged Cyde on it.Rlevse 13:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That is just a bot. I noted it at Non-free content/templates.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I put it on the bot and the user's page. Rlevse 14:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Why are we putting the standard logo in the template along with our own?Rlevse 17:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I see you reverted yourself. I guess you were just testing. OK.Rlevse 17:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It looks like the logos also need to be in Category:All non-free Logos (looking at the cats the bot put it in). I tried doing that, but I got it wrong. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just gave it a shot. I think it worked. Check it out. Rlevse 17:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

That did it. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Check out Image:Rounder.jpg, I'm not sure if that's a BSA item or something someone made. Not sure how to tag it.Rlevse 18:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It is the backside of Image:Minisino.jpg, as illustrated in Firecrafter. It needs to be reworked as a single grouped image without the background. but, then again, the article needs a lot of work. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What exactly is happening there? I just got 200+ bot changes. Do I need to manually revert? Will they be deleted? Where is Batman when you need him? (uh, carried away... sheepish grin...) Chris 19:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

CFD Eagle Scout
Here we go again. Why can't people leave well enough alone?Rlevse 14:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been waiting for this to happen since we list the Silver Buffalo category. I don't see this as a battle we can win, so I would not waste energy on it.  Let it go.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * RATS!Rlevse 14:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

See why this has a red cat at the bottom Image:Unami_Lodge_90th.jpg. Rlevse 14:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Because Evrik has been using multiple templates in images again. He had the Scoutlogo tag twice, it got converted twice and you missed one. I made several updates including adding the WPS:FUR.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * what's with the "convert it to a list"-itis people? What's wrong with having categories?Rlevse 14:20, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I know, and then we make a list and someone tries to shoot it down. I would not worry over it too much, just let it go. We have a featured list, and it is something to be proud of. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea, just throw all the work we do. Someone will try to kill our FL one day too. Rlevse 15:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nowhere near everyone in the Eagle and DESA cats are in the FL. More wasted work.Rlevse 15:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If they can't be verified and added to the list, then they shouldn't have the cat. In the scheme of things, the cats are not that important.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point, but whatever. I don't have the time or energy to fight these guys, nor do I have the time or energy to waste my efforts on wiki, a no-win situation. The cats are important because it's a easy way to search for things, but then we make a list and some list-hater comes along trying to kill that too, so where does that leave us. Many are in the cat but not the FL simply because we've never added them. On top of all that, we have to fix the mess by Cyde, who fails to see the problems he caused--we'll probably never find all the images he messed up.Rlevse 16:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

To find the mis-categorized images, click on these links: --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:BSA (completed)
 * Category:BSAC (111 images)
 * Category:BSAMB (129 images)
 * Category:BSAP ( 12 images completed; FUR added)
 * Good, but that won't help with the non-bsa ones.Rlevse 16:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My watchlist is telling me about a lot of the non-bsa ones, but I don't have watches on all of them.Rlevse 16:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

On those, the bot changed to  and added Category:Scout logos, thus the category did not change.--Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the tag is wrong and we still have to fix them. Rlevse 17:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * PS, I'm been adding FURs to them too.Rlevse 17:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you using the template per WPS:FUR. You do know that whichever bot checks fair use will ignore the image if it includes Non-free media rationale. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:54, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm using WP:FUR, but some of the older ones don't. Some do look as you say. I know that betacommandbot, though, only looks for 20+ characters outside of templates.Rlevse 17:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

A number of them are using {[tl|Information}}, which is not a rationale but has a similar look. I recommend it only for free images. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The four bogus cats you listed above are done. We should probably run through "Scout logos" cat and I'll finish my watchlist ones.Rlevse 21:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with that. I'm going to be in and out all weekend. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

sorry
but I didn't think the other guy's removing my work on Eagle Scouts after I tried to compromise with him was very civil.

Was he given a warning or was only I given one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.135.56.169 (talk • contribs)

To 70.135.56.169...You use the phrase "In the future don't be a dick to people or they won't help you on this page" and you accuse someone else of being uncivil? Not to mention it's a featured list and you didn't read the talk page about references.Rlevse 11:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

On your first edits- you changed the Phelps entry to include "former", removed the reference and moved it out of alphabetical order, then got the entry in twice; you added Powers  without a reference; you changed Gates back to "richest", which is currently disputed and not really material. Rlevse reverted all of this with no fuss.

On your second edits,you delinked part of the Phelps entry; you added Powers back; this time you tried to include a reference; this is when you put the dick comment in the edit summary. I then edited the entry and included a proper reference.

So- We do not use "former"- Once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Our opinion of Phelps is immaterial here- Wikipedia is not censored- seeWP:CENSOR. It took a lot of hard work by a lot of editors to get the list to featured status; none of us "own" the article, but it is heavily watched and kept cleaned up.

We welcome all editors here, but do look around and see how things work. If you are really interested in Jon Powers, then you really need to focus on fixing his article. I felt obliged to remove material that was blatantly copied from news articles- the edit history shows the sources. If the Powers article gets deleted for notability issues, then the entry comes off the Eagle list. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Fred Phelps and Eagle Scout
I have started a discussion based on your recent edit to Fred Phelps. The discussion is located at Talk:Fred Phelps. --OuroborosCobra 16:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Resolved --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project
See this and the talk page, thoughts?Rlevse 02:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Smile


has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks
That kind of thing is to be expected, and acceptable as long as we can get the facts straight (so to speak). Haiduc 00:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Similar Awards in Eagle Scout (Boy Scouts of America)
Hi, I was saw your recent edit and felt that the section title "Similar Awards" seemed a little POV. Any thoughts on a retitle? Zidel333 15:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

POV? How so? "Equivalent" is a problematic term, as it implies equal. For example, Eagle Scout and Gold Award have different requirements; they are similar in that they are the highest award, but they are not the same. A problem is where someone will state that some award is the equivalent of Eagle. For example, the article used to state that the Billy Mitchell Award is the equivalent of Eagle Scout; the CAP is not a Scouting association, and the requirements are quite different. We had a list of highest awards in the article that was split to the new article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, let me put it this way, I'm a Gold Scout. I'm very proud of that fact, and I was the one who propose the Gold Award User box, but that's beside the point. Its just that I have experience *some* discrimination over this topic, at Girl Scout and Boy Scout functions, applying for jobs, resumes, military recruitment benefits etc. etc. I just think Equivilant vs. Similar have certain connotations that need to addressed. Don't get me wrong, I have 3 brothers who are Eagles, so I personally know the differences in the awards, and requirements.  Zidel333 15:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

It helps to know where you are coming from on this; I am an Eagle Scout (1976). I have never liked it when someone tells me that Gold Award is the equivalent of Eagle Scout. Each award should stand on its own merits, and it always seemed to demean the Gold Award somewhat by this usage; frankly, the Gold Award seems more involved than Eagle Scout in some areas.

Perhaps a better title would be "Highest awards in other programs." I also see where we could fold Awards comparable to Eagle Scout into that section; the See also section has grown a bit in the past months.

Is Gold Scout the term for a recipient of the Gold Award?

Just checked Gold Award (Girl Scouts of the USA)- the lead has "The Eagle Scout rank of the Boy Scouts of America is considered comparable to it." The problem here it that the reader starts off thinking that Gold is just the GSUSA copy of Eagle, and it is not. A section at the end as in the Eagle Scout article would work better. I thought I had brought this up before. Ah, yes- Talk:Girl Scouts of the USA when the GSUSA article was up for FA, before the Gold Award article was split. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, here is how I see it: people are misusing the words equivilant to mean identical, which the Gold Award, and Eagle Award are not. It is akin to the Medal of Honor in the US and the Légion d'honneur (Legion of Honor) in France. Are the requirements the same? No. Is the difficulty the same? Not neccessarily. Are they both notable? Yes. Are they the highest in their respective fields? Yes. In this I think the comparison is valid, because one Award is simply more well known than the other.


 * Per your suggestion "Highest awards in other programs", I think would do nicely.


 * As for Gold Scout, I use it for simplicity's sake; its probably unofficial. Zidel333 16:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Then we agree on the use of "equivalent" here. "Highest awards in other programs" works better with the link to List of highest awards in Scouting. Let me work on that.

Gold Scout is certainly simpler than "recipient of the Gold Award." I had performed a quick Google search, and there does seem to be some use of the term. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Done! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks for all your work! :) Zidel333 17:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome, this was an easy one. Just noticed you are also from Virginia, so howdy neighbor; Rlevse is also a citizen of the Commonwealth. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Really? I'm from Fairfax, but go to school in the Hampton Roads area, and tend to hang out in Richmond. I love Virginia, such a beautiful state....commonwealth. :) Where are you from?? Zidel333 14:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I added the same section to Silver Award (Boy Scouts of America). --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I am over in the Shenandoah Valley; I work in Waynesboro and live in Stuarts Draft. My stepsons are at Christopher Newport University, and one of my wife's sons works in Virginia Beach. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Your stepsons go to CNU?! LoL, that's where I go to school, I'm a Sophmore, but have enough credits to be a Senior. Small world. :D Zidel333 15:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, small world. Especially today. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation mediation
Try these: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Translations/archive and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Translations Rlevse 20:30, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK- that is about article names; I already have it referenced in WPS:ART. I don't recall any real discussion on English style.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, that was just a short thread. We as a group agreed to use American for int'l articles since most articles and users and project members are Americans. It's on some talk page from way back when.Rlevse 21:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator selection
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by August 14! Kirill 03:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Philmont merge
Could you help me out by merging their templates and userboxes into our system, see here: WikiProject Scouting/Philmont Scout Ranch task force? Thanks.Rlevse 01:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I just checked and they were added when I did the MoS pages WPS:TEMP and WPS:USER. I presume you are going to add Philmont as a task force?  If  is not going to be used, it should be TfD after we update the talk pages with the TF.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, ahead of me.Rlevse 02:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What's new? :-) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Really. I'll drop Johntex (agreed to be Coord) about the tagging. Yes, I made it a task force.Rlevse 02:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I speedy deleted the old Philmont project tag. If it's in our MoS anywhere, pls remove it from there. Rebelguys2 changed all the tags over.Rlevse 18:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, deleted from WPS:TEMP. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Eagle list size
I'm cutting unused params from this because it got over 90K total size. I'm only on H and I've cut 5K so far. We have to think about what if the list gets over 100-110K, we can't really freeze it and not add others, setting "how important guidelines" higher than we already have doesn't sit well with me either, so I'm not sure what we could do is such a case. Theoretically, it could grow to 200K one day. Thoughts?Rlevse 12:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If it gets too big, we might consider splitting it by A-J and N-Z or some such. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * We could resize Image:Gold Eagle.svg and cut 120 instances of "|15px", but that is only 600 bytes. The comments add up to about 1.2k.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Over 9K cut. A tab breathing room but won't last forever.Rlevse 12:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

phrase checker
Hi, thx for your note. It works fine for me; please try again and let me know if it doesn't work. It's a free function. Tony 12:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Lists
That page is not part of the WP:MOS, hence the message box is not appropriate.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  15:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The same applies to those other scouting-related pages. Please familiarize yourself with the Manual of Style to see what that tag means.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  15:41, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And also, Wikiprojects don't get to make their own supplemental policies and guidelines. FYI.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  15:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I have updated the messagebox (it was never a template) on WikiProject Scouting/Lists. Is this acceptable? Please direct me to any discussion on supplemental policies and procedures so that I may familiarize myself. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:45, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really. There is no such thing as a "supplemental policy". In general, Wikiprojects create a few pages for themselves for convenience, but don't call them "policy" or part of the "manual of style", because those two labels imply a scope of the entire wiki, rather than a single project. I would recommend simply removing the tags, I fail to see what purpose they serve. Failing that, simply point out that "this page is used by (or part of) Wikiproject Scouting", although that is already obvious from the page name. HTH!  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  15:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I know that other projects have guidelines, policies and conventions; regardless of what they are called, they are still extensions to the general MoS. But, what others are doing is not that germane to this issue.  I can rename this to "Project Preferences", "Project Conventions" or some such if that would be more acceptable, but the material and the intent would be the same.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Radiant: you're the only one that has a problem with this, the entire Scouting project supports it.Rlevse 11:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That is true, but my point is that an official-looking tag would confuse people. I have no problem with the intent. I'd say "conventions" is a good word. Also, several projects do have MOS pages, but generally only one per project, and they're usually called Manual of Style (something).  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  16:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes- we had one page that grew beyond manageability; WikiProject Scouting/RulesStandards is now the index page. Rules was never a good term for this. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

If I use the project color as a background, I can't believe anyone would confuse this:


 * Yes, it would. People have certain impressions of the terms "guideline" and "manual of style". A page kept by a wikiproject does not meet those. I strongly urge you to not use either of those terms.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  08:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I still do not understand- why can't a project have guidelines? If someone has the impression that this is a wiki-wide guideline, then they just aren't reading; no amount of verbiage can fix that. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is precisely why I'm suggesting less verbiage. You haven't explained why you think these tags are necessary to begin with (I don't think they are, to my knowledge no other wikiproject has them) and it shouldn't be surprising that we have a number of editors that "just aren't reading" or otherwise are confused by apparent contradictions in guidelines.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  10:30, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The first one is better and what we're supportingRlevse 11:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Other projects have guidelines and call them that. If they don't use the boxes the way we do, SO WHAT?Rlevse 11:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Since we now appear to be in an edit war, I am putting all of those pages up for deletion and letting the community decide. Either way, it will be done and I can get on with life. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Pls don't do that. It's not your fault Radiant likes ruining other people's work.Rlevse 12:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a shame you're making personal attacks now, Rlevse. This was a sensible productive discussion until you started reverting everything without comment. For instance, if you'd read up on what the MOS actually is, you'd notice that for 90% of those scouting pages, it doesn't even make sense to consider them part of the MOS. It boggles the mind why you insist on misleading users just to have an unnecessary official-sounding tag on your pages.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  13:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * UH, you made a personal attack on the MfD, so pls be careful about pointing fingers. I would not call you and Gadget's interactions a productive discussion. You also rv'd prior to consensus prior to me ever getting involved, so.... We're not misleading anyone they clearly state they're a supplement. Your attitude boggles me too, so that makes us even.Rlevse 13:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're still focusing on people rather than facts. It's an encyclopedia, fact trumps opinion ten times out of nine.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  13:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators from a pool of fourteen candidates to serve for the next six months. Please vote here by August 28! Wandalstouring 08:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

WAGGGS template
See Template talk:WAGGGS Regions. It says you tagged this but there is no actual template. SInce the deletion log is empty, it means it was never created. ?? Rlevse 09:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It is all of the WAGGGS templates. SeeWikiProject Scouting/Templates. For some reason, the talk page links are missing the dash. I probably just clicked on the links to tag the talk page. Does this need an admin move to fix? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 10:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

List size
FL on Dartmouth College alumni has over 200 footnotes and is 120K+ in size. We should be okay for awhile.Rlevse 02:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

SAJ excahnge
You are wonderful, thanks Ed! Chris 16:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Honor medal list
What are your thoughts on starting a "list of Honor Medal recipiants" Boy Scouts of America?

Profberger 15:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend "Recipients of the Honor Medal (Boy Scouts of America)." Do you have any reliable sources? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * not really - I was thinking of a "build it and they would come" type strategy? Thoughts?

Profberger 17:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC) -

P.S. We could contact NESA as a start?

Profberger 17:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It might be best to start this as a user subpage and invite folks to help flesh it out. If you publish this with only six entries, it might get knocked for notability.  I would not think NESA would have any references for the Honor Medal.   The only Scout I know of with the Honor Medal was Arthur Rose Eldred --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok maybe we are talking at cross purposes - I mean the "Boy scout Honor medal for saving a life" not the "Medal of Honor". I have recieved the former but not the latter.

Profberger 17:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Profberger 17:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * whoops - spoke too soon. I see that you were referring to the Honor Medal.  Surely there are literally hundreds if not thousands of awardees that are out there?  maybe BSA has a list - not just councils? Maybe Steve Fosset could help.  I'll write him if need be?

Profberger 17:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * OK- I was trying to figure that one out :-) With my military and Scouting backgrounds, I am well aware of the difference (even though I  don't have either).  Just for some background on notability issues, see Talk:Recipients of the Silver Buffalo Award; that list was pinged for notability an hour after I created it with 664 entries.  Before we add a list, we really need an article on the Honor Medal itself, establishing its notability, at least equal to the Silver Buffalo Award article.  I do have a copy of the 1967 Annual Report (back when it was a real report the size of the Patrol Leader's Handbook) it may show HM recipients for the year and give us an estimate of the number of recipients.  If it runs into the thousands, then we would need to pick the notables.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Exactly my thoughts. What I propose is an Honor Medal page - the add a list - then build a history if that sounds right for you.  You do have much more experience than I do at this.

Profberger 19:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * First step is to get some history on the origins. Who was the first recipient?  What did he do?  Are there any notable recipients or incidents?  Eldred's bio says he was awarded the Bronze Honor Medal, which is no longer awarded.   Would you have a better image than Image:Honor Medal.png?  What is the text on the medal?  What does the design mean?  I have all but one handbook- I can skim through those and see what I can drag up.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW, Steve Fossett may not answer for a bit- looks like he went missing. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The 1967 report shows that the Honor Medal was presented: 1963 - 17 1964 - 31 1965 - 37 1966 - 12 1967 - 17

That averages to 23 per year, times 97 years gives us a total guesstimate of about 2200. It does not show crossed palms. It does list all of the recipients, but none stick out to me. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Geez - I just had an email from Steve three weeks ago - its a bit of a shock for me - Concerning the history of the medal, I'll contact some of my mates at NESA after this gets resolved - hopefully positively - and see what they have. I can certainly make an image of mine - I'll also do a bit of basic groundwork on the history - categories - how its changed - major events and or well known recipients.

Profberger 11:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that was... interesting. If you want to send me a good scan, I will integrate it with the current image. I need to redo the palms device- I made a guess from a bad image, but it looks like I got them oriented wrong.   Are you Lee R. Berger?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * yes I am. I found this at [| scouting.org] as a background. there is also an image there.

<!---*Lifesaving or Meritorious Action Awards Recognition may be given to a member of the Boy Scouts of America—Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Venturer, or adult leader—where the evidence presented to the National Court of Honor, in accordance with prescribed regulations, shows that he or she saved or attempted to save life under circumstances that indicate heroism and risk of his or her own life. The court will give consideration to resourcefulness and to demonstrated skill in rescue methods.
 * Lifesaving Awards

In no case shall recognition be given where it appears that the risk involved was merely in the performance of duty or the meeting of an obligation because of responsibility to supervise and give leadership to the person or people whose lives were saved.

It shall be wholly within the discretion of the National Court of Honor to determine from evidence presented which lifesaving award, if any, shall be made. Awards are issued in the name of the Boy Scouts of America. These awards are as follows:


 * Honor Medal With Crossed Palms. The Honor Medal With Crossed Palms may be awarded in exceptional cases to a youth member or adult leader who has demonstrated both unusual heroism and extraordinary skill or resourcefulness in saving or attempting to save life at extreme risk to self.


 * Honor Medal. The Honor Medal may be awarded to a youth member or adult leader who has demonstrated unusual heroism and skill in saving or attempting to save life at considerable risk to self.


 * Heroism Award. The Heroism Award may be awarded to a youth member or adult leader who has demonstrated heroism and skill in saving or attempting to save life at minimum risk to self.

Recognition may be given to a youth member or adult leader where the evidence presented to the National Court of Honor, in accordance with prescribed regulations, shows that a significant or outstanding act of service of exceptional character was performed. The action taken need not involve attempts of rescue or risk to self but must put into practice Scouting skills and/or ideals. Recognition shall not be given where it appears that the action involved was merely in the performance of duty or the meeting of an obligation. The awards are as follows:
 * Meritorious Action Awards


 * Medal of Merit. The Medal of Merit may be awarded to a youth member or adult leader who has performed some outstanding act of service of a rare or exceptional character that reflects an uncommon degree of concern for the well-being of others.


 * National Certificate of Merit. The National Certificate of Merit may be awarded to a youth member or adult leader who has performed a significant act of service that is deserving of special national recognition.

All applications should be submitted to the National Court of Honor through the local council upon duly prescribed forms, and it shall be within the discretion of the National Court of Honor to determine which type of recognition shall be given. Recipients of these awards must have been registered members of the Boy Scouts of America at the time the action was performed. Awards are made in the name of the Boy Scouts of America.

Nominating Procedures A council advancement committee, volunteer recognition committee, or subcommittee must investigate the case, interview the principals and witnesses, secure necessary signed statements, and make recommendations based upon a full knowledge of the facts within 30 days of the receipt of the recommendation. Unless there are unusual circumstances that account for the time lapse, no application may be considered after a lapse of six months from the deed without a written explanation from the Scout executive or adviser to the council committee.

Separate applications are required if more than one member is being recommended for recognition. It is recommended that no case be forwarded to the National Court of Honor without the endorsement or statement of an eyewitness. All recognitions are reserved for registered members, and no such member should be encouraged to submit an application on his or her own behalf. Caution is urged not to submit weak cases (in terms of meaningful action or documentation) to the National Court of Honor. Deliberations are conducted by the court, not only to recognize deserving individuals but also to preserve the historical integrity of the awards.--->

Profberger 12:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes- I believe that is the reference I used in Advancement and recognition in the Boy Scouts of America. Frankly, if we do one, we should do the whole series of Lifesaving and meritorious action awards, as we did the Distinguished service awards.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok - I've just written the Boy scout museum asking for a list and details of the origins. When they get back to me I'll forward on the info.

Profberger 12:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We just need to ensure we have previously published sources. I have a fair library of historical Scouting material that I need to skim through.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not gone - just tied up with other things right now - will get back to you. BSA museum has not replied as of yet - I will follow up.

Profberger 19:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Explorer box
I think you forgot to fix the left column of the new explorer box, it still says APO, WikiProject_Scouting/Userboxes.Rlevse 22:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the catch. I just found it.  Had to remove the non-free image, and there are a few other issues (Explorer Scout?), but I will look at it later.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XVIII (August 2007)
The August 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 09:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Just popped by...
I took your advice on the knots, and popped by to see your personal site. Very impressive, I noticed that you too are from Virginia. I just moved into the Manassas area myself. Thanks for all your suggestions. RobHoitt 18:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You are welcome! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Awards
Here is how to use Infobox Awards with knots. Your choice as to separate them with a space. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks sharp. I like it. That will look good for when on the article I am working on. Thanks for making the template! RobHoitt 02:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)



Thanks. We were using tables in articles, but I wanted something simpler and more readily used by the average editor. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC) I think it works well, and suits the application quite well... What I'd like to do when I have more time is work on Sea Scout Insignia, and some of the older badges that you don't see too often. I think I can make up some clear illustraions which will make it easier to show what they looked like. I figure a project like that should take me a while... I have to take a break for now due to work sending me all over hither and yon, but I'll be at it most likely closer to the holidays. If you have any requests, let me know. RobHoitt 04:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah- with no experience in Sea Scouting, it took me a while to figure out the ranks and positions. I think the images in Sea Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) came out well.  I do wish I had a better scan of the Image:Skipper's Key.png.  What sort of "older" badges?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I was a Boatswain (BTW, pronounced BO-sin for the landlubbers.) Which was the Sea Exploring equivalent to Explorer Post President. Sadly my ship folded after 18 months, so I never got the chance to complete my Quartermaster. In a quick overview of your page, the graphics looked very crisp. As for older badges, I was thinking of discontinued merit badges and simmilar awards. There once was a badge for "Stalking." (When I was volunteering up at the museum I had someone actually ask me it was earned for stalking Girl Scouts.) I earned a badge for Rabbit Raising, which to spare the deatils was really the easiest one I earned... So I thought it would be nice to replicate them as good samples are getting harder to find. RobHoitt 12:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I do a lot of image manipulation when I have my tech writer hat on, so I've gotten pretty good at it. I found the original images at SeaScout.org, but they needed a lot of work to get them all cleaned up and in the right proportions.  I got all of the Category:Boy Scouts of America logos cleaned up a while back, and I  think I've got the WP image policies figured out.


 * Merit badge (Boy Scouts of America) has the current images (they could be better though), but Discontinued merit badges (Boy Scouts of America) has no images. And yes, Stalking merit badge is an interesting one to bring up with the youth ("Stalking— I thought that was illegal!").  I do recall a "cabin boy" badge for Sea Scouting from my Scout Handbook collection.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC) ::Cabin boy? Hadn't seen that one, although I am not as well steeped in Sea Scout lore as other things... When you mention "Cabin Boy" to me I think of that cheesy Chris Eliot film... "Bullion? I wonder if he means this chum?" RobHoitt 22:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, it was for a Boy Scout under 14 who worked certain Sea Scouting requirements, sort of a junior Sea Scout program. Ah- found a ref— "While the minimum age for Sea Scouts is now 15, a Boy Scout can participate in the "Sea Scout Reserve Plan" in his troop, earning Cabin Boy, Apprentice, and Ordinary before he joins a Sea Scout Ship."   and an image.   --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Had that still exsisted at the time, I probably would have gotten into Sea Exploring sooner... RobHoitt 18:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

MOS
You may find this interesting: Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_criteria. Rlevse 14:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'm reviewing WP:MEDMOS, and this seems like something we could adapt.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Heheheh
Just goes to show you I didn't dig far enough, I figured that if the white house site was used as a reference, it would be used in the first few paragraph. I looked through the references, the first 50 or so, but I didn't get to reference number 123, lmao. Sorry. Ariel ♥ Gold 16:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey- it happens. There was a bit of discussion during FAC about moving the section on his middle name up to the top, but we decided that it should not be given undue weight.  I have no preference, as it was decided to use the AP style before I was asked to weed out the huge external link farm and the bibliography (sort of my specialty I guess).  I have no clue why this is so contentious.  BTW- there is a notice on the talk page about this very issue.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I read that note on the talk page, and I've read the article about his name (or lack of? lol), I just was passing by on Recent Changes patrol, and read the first part of the article, thought it strange the White House site wasn't referenced (didn't go through them all, lol) and thought I'd just drop it into ELs, no big deal, glad you removed it. Ariel ♥ Gold 16:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

RE: Cite Error 2
Yeah, I normally don't use "quotes" in REF's. I yank them. I was just in a big hurry because that article gets so much traffic, I was trying to do a commando raid. I need to slow down. WikiDon 21:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem- just thought you might want to know where you went wrong. The odd thing is that I was updating my troubleshooting section at the same time and had never figured out how to generate that particular error.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Burnham FAC
See issues remaining on this FAC. Ctatkinson did some good work on it, but for some reason I'm not coming up with much on this one.Rlevse 10:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help again on getting this to FA. I made a big congrats to Ctatkinson on his first FA. He did very well. He's actually a descendant of Burnham, you know and that's why he knows so much about him and has access to those photos. I'm very happy for Ctatkinson.Rlevse 03:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Re proquest, which is used for the refs, did you notice WP:EL applies to links that are not citations?Rlevse 19:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... technically this would fall under Citing sources. I still thinkg that mentioning a pay site is not useful.  It is nice that the NYT went online just in time.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

FUR issue
What's going on with WikiProject Scouting/Non-free media rationale? I view mode it says you need to supply the article parameter, but in edit mode you don't see it. So we're supposed to put the article name in THREE places now: top banner, article parameter, and purpose of parameter? Talk about overkill.Rlevse 11:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a bunch of talk about this at Template talk:Non-free use rationale. I would not get too excited just yet.  There is a new Non-free content criteria/Proposal based on a recent resolution by the Foundation that will probably result in completely new templates.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And the reason you don't see an article field is because I'm not going to update the template until this issue stabilizes. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just won't worry about it right now.Rlevse 11:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Tally.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Tally.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Old stuff catching up to me.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 09:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Juice Plus Table
Thanks so much for figuring out the missing close commands on the table. If you have a chance for a quick follow-up, please have a look at Juice Plus. The table could still use a few tweaks: (1) more padding outside left border so that body text doesn't come so close (2) smaller image (3) narrower column. Thanks again for your help. Rhode Island Red 21:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. You should be able to look at the diffs to see what I did.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice! I really appreciate your expert assistance. And fast too! Rhode Island Red 22:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just trying to give back what I've learned. It was User:EncMstr who found the missing closes.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

suppress default generic logo
Hi Ed, what's that for? Chris 21:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If you don't explicitly blank the image, you get our generic Scout logo— Image:Scout logo2.svg. As our generic logo is not the logo of the IUMS, it does not seem appropriate to use it.  We should use it for truly generic articles such as Scouting, Boy Scout, Cub Scout and the like.  I poked around a bit, but the only IUMS logo I found was not very detailed.


 * I'm really thinking that it would be better if the Infobox WorldScouting image were blank by default. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:48, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It also becomes a decorative image when used in this manner rather than a useful image. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you're right there, and I would support the modification. Also, could you point me to the IUMS logo? The Graphic Lab/Images to improve could fix it. Chris 22:19, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I did just a cursory check and found the generic logo on Klondike derby‎, Totin' Chip‎ and a few others. Treasure Island (Scout reservation)‎ was using the Gilwell Park logo for some odd reason. The IUMS logo... I was thinking it was the logo in the top left of, but I now believe it it the OIC logo. Google image search doesn't find anything else, so now I don't have a clue if they even have a logo. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)
The September 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 09:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes
Since you are kinda working this area, could you look at this? On the Phimont TF page, WikiProject_Scouting/Philmont_Scout_Ranch_task_force, it says use two userboxes. One is in UBX namespace and one in template name space. I think it's better to keep them all in our space per WikiProject_Scouting/Userboxes. The UBX box on people who've been to Philmont is not in our space and the other one, on ROCS, is duplicated in our space. Rlevse 18:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. Those were old links that redirected to the new; I just dabbed the links.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're always ahead of me. Rlevse 18:28, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

While on the subject of userboxes. ..

We have a number of userboxes that are using images that are probably non-free. I was waiting for Nthurston to come off of break, but it has been a while. He created several images for userboxes, but they are so close to the original that they are derivatives and thus non-free. For example: Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/Queen's Scout uses Image:AUSQueensScoutBadge.svg created by NThurston and relesed as PD. A comparison shows it to be a derivative of Image:Qs-logo-gradient.jpg, thus really non-free. See User:Gadget850/Sandbox6. I discussed this with B a bit ago and he concurs. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's looking more and more like we lost NThurston and Horus Kol. Maybe even Wim, who's done some chemistry editing recently, but not Scouts. I'm sad for all three. Go with what you and B worked out if you don't want to wait anymore.Rlevse 19:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

E. Urner Goodman
Hi Gadget850, I noticed that you changed the citation templates I used in E. Urner Goodman, but prior to my rewrite there were no citations in this Article at all, so why change the article from one style to another without consensus (re WP:CIT)?  JGHowes talk  -  15:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I did not change the citations per se, I just remove the unused fields to tidy them up. The article looks really good now, I just did a few style edits.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay
Well, if you can't support the article, would you at leats sit it out ..., or make comments soley on how the article needs to be edited rather than deleted. --evrik (talk) 20:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. But changing the license for those patches to PD is just plain wrong.  Please play the game by the rules, OK?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

My apologies, that was User:MinsiPatches changing them to PD. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not thrilled with the patches ... I didn't change anything to PD. If the uploader is claiming PD, someone should challenge them on the email. --evrik (talk) 21:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * MP says they have an email ...--evrik (talk) 22:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If he has an email, the patches, email, etc should be sent to OTRS and the pics uploaded to wikicommons. Detailed directions are here. Rlevse 23:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Vector images
Howdy, do you have any images in particular that you'd like to have converted to svg, or any that may need some work? -- Kaboom88 02:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You can go gonzo on Category:Boy Scouts of America council logos. There should be at least a few logos that can be converted to SVG, but most should be PNG.  These are ones you can change the name on, as there is no rhyme or reason to most of them.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Does the fair-use policy for the national BSA images apply to the council patches and lodge flaps, or should they be kept to relatively small png's to qualify for general fair-use? I was assuming they were but I wasn't sure and wanted to check before I uploaded any. If so, what would be the correct template(s) to use for them? I checked on some of the others (like Image:Jvccsp2004.jpg and it looked like something was just thrown together. -- Kaboom88 01:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. If you want to convert them to SVG, go ahead, but leaving them as PNG is fine.  They need a lot of work.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What about the templates? -- Kaboom88 19:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

If you create a new image, just copy the old. the only thing missing in the new article parameter. -- Gadget850 (Ed)  20:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 10-4 -- Kaboom88 21:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate Image:BSA universal emblem.svg
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GSUSA
Girl Scouts of the USA will be on the Main Page 29 Oct. get ready for the vandalism-;) Rlevse 12:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * W00t! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:William T. Hornaday Awards.png
Thanks for uploading Image:William T. Hornaday Awards.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 19:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Max I. Silber
Could you give this the type of review you did for Goodman for GAC purposes? Great job on that by the way. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 14:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Gadget850 (Ed)  17:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, nice sig! — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 17:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:William T. Hornaday Awards.png
Thanks for uploading Image:William T. Hornaday Awards.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 20:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * fixed — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 20:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)
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Delivered by grafikbot 13:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Cat sup
All that category suppression would be easier with AWB;-) — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 15:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, if the userboxes were done all the same. And if I had ever figured out how to use AWB yet.    And if the categories were all the same and if some boxes didn't have a parent cat and a sub-cat.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * smiles, if you ever need an AWB run, just let me know. I've used it a lot. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 15:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

B
Yep, I saw that a few weeks ago. He's all frustrated, especially about the Ferrylodge arbcom case. What a shame, he was a real help. I know him in real life and hope to get him back. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 13:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Medal of Merit.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Medal of Merit.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Awards comparable to Eagle Scout
Hi Gadget850 - I'm raising some significant questions about this article. Please respond on that article's talk when you get a chance. --Lquilter 20:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

ConvertWeight
Hello Gadget,
 * ConvertWeight which you're using on


 * User:Gadget850/Pershing 1 missile
 * User:Gadget850/Pershing 1A missile
 * User:Gadget850/Pershing II missile


 * is depreciated. You can use convert now instead (just delete the Weight).  Just thought I'd warn you in case  gets deleted. Jɪmp 08:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  10:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Scouting Userboxes
Did I offend you with my new userbox or something? Next time how about asking me to change it rather than throwing some implication in my face?-- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 21:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how you are reading my actions or edit summary here. The userbox is not at all offensive.  "Youth" is more appropriate than "boy" in this context, as the BSA does have girls in the program.  The edit summary was intended to convey both what was changed as well as the reasoning, since someone not familiar with the BSA might not understand.


 * Now, if you would prefer to use "boy", then we could have a quiet discussion on how to add switches for "girl", "boy", "youth" or something similar. And a gentle reminder— no one owns articles or templates.  YIS  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  21:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I never said I owned anything. The girls in Boy Scouts are only in the Venture Crews, so I guess you are technically correct. The 2% population of girls in the Boy Scouts might make the word "youth" seem appropriate if one is trying to be PC. If you want to add switches, by all means knock yourself out. However the way you phrased your comment implied to me that I had done something wrong or offensive. You are also welcome to create another template that has "girl" in it. BTW, I have a daughter and would never have made the change.-- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 14:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Proposal struck, issue over. This it just not worth the aggravation.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  16:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I noticed the message you recently left to. Please remember to try not to bite the newcomers. If you see someone make a common mistake, try to politely point out what they did wrong and how to correct it. -- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 17:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I feel like I made a minor change to a minor template, then got dumped on for it. In the scheme of things, this userbox is truly not worth getting aggravated over, so I have let it go. I apologize if my words offended you in some manner, but I still don't see it.
 * BTW, there is a fix for those misaligned userboxes on your userpage. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  13:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to leave girls out, I was just trying to make a box for parents. Nothing more than that.-- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 18:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Featured List of the Day Experiment
There have been a series of proposals to initiate a Featured List of the Day on the main page. Numerous proposals have been put forth. After the third one failed, I audited all WP:FL's in order to begin an experiment in my own user space that will hopefully get it going. Today, it commences at WP:LOTD. Afterwards I created my experimental page, a new proposal was set forth to do a featured list that is strikingly similar to my own which is to do a user page experimental featured list, but no format has been confirmed and mechanism set in place. I continue to be willing to do the experiment myself and with this posting it commences. Please submit any list that you would like to have considered for list of the day in the month of January 2008 by the end of this month to WP:LOTD and its subpages. You may submit multiple lists for consideration.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 01:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool idea. Gadget, you should nom the Eagle List as you are the main author and the person who nominated it for FL. Let me know what I can do to help. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 12:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Upload Image
I would like to upload a personal Redstone missile image taken by me to directly insert in the "Redstone (rocket)" article: jpg file, 600 x 800 px at 72 dpi. I could use some help on how to do this. Please respond on my talkpage. Thanks.

Redstonesoldier (talk) 17:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Changing Article Title
I think a more appropriate title for the article "Redstone (rocket)" would be "Redstone (guided missile)". Is it allowable to make this change? Would this be the proper replacement name for this article? Please respond on my talkpage. Thanks.

Redstonesoldier (talk) 17:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Venturer right sleeve.png)
Thanks for uploading Image:Venturer right sleeve.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 20:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * fixed --— Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  20:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)
The November 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 01:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Cabinet Infobox
I didn't, and you'll see I tried really hard to fix it, but I just couldn't figure out how. If you could add one section for the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, that'd be great, it only needs to be there so Washington's page can actually have every Cabinet member. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me see what I can do there. The sandbox will make it easier to work on without breaking something.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  19:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My God, thank you so much! Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait, I don't see it. Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

old populations
Thanks for the link.bob (talk) 12:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You are welcome. Sometimes you have to do it the old fashioned way and go read a book.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  13:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)--—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  13:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy Holidays
Happy Holidays Rlevse:) ''' (T/C)