User talk:Gagagracija/sandbox

Advice

 * Please avoid all copied material, even if only temporary!!! If the present text has something copied, remove it now! It may not even be in old revisions, - I hope you understand.
 * Normally, we use a singer's first name only once, in the first sentence. Please erase all Dragana thereafter.
 * We don't use ALL CAPITALS. Operas are italic, and preceded by the composer's name, such as: Puccini's Turandot. Please format accordingly.

Compare my latest, Tijl Faveyts, for formatting and style (well, not even a good example, - the subject added long lists of conductors and halls that I - or rather we, project opera - find boring), and make these changes, then I'll look again. Without looking: way too detailed. If you want this to go to DYK, you will have to reference every recording, and every performance, - think about that ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:04, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

More:
 * References go after punctuation.
 * Please remove links from current countries and their capitals. I said that in an edit summary. Same for other common terms such as conductor.
 * Stay with prose whenever possible. Her master class teachers don't need to appear in a list.
 * Remove all external links from the prose.
 * Don't mention roles and operas in brackets, - they are key!

One crucial thing, and I hope I can explain this: you can't say in Wikipedia's factual voice that she has a powerful voice, even if it's true. (This is one example of many.) You can only say that a critic (or critics) have said that she has a powerful voice. Do you understand the difference? The safest thing is not to use these rather meaningless attributes at all. Everybody knowing opera knows that you can't sing Turandot without a powerful voice, and other readers probably won't even care. Good luck. More to come, but I don't want to overwhelm you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:09, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Can you please respond here if you understand any of the above? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Gerda Arendt Thank you Gerda Ardent! I understand some... But I am doing my best to improve and catch up! I have read the message just now on 16 Oct, let's fix some bits!
 * By the way, what is DYK, and what does it mean to reference every recording, and every performance? What is involved in referencing? She made over 1000 performances, and very few recordings. Gagagracija (talk) 10:28, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, thank you! I formatted your post by a leading colon, and have two colons for mine, and if you want to reply to this post, begin with three, please, simply to make it easier to see who responded to what. That's only for talk pages. Next: please watch pages, such as this, by clicking the little star symbol on top of the title. Then check your watchlist which will give you changes. DYK is short for Did you know ...?, which is the possibility to present an article on the well-watched Main page by giving one line about the subject, - usually resulting in a few hundred views on the page which otherwise may go unnoticed. Today, I have Enea Scala there. For DYK, every fact has to be referenced, so if you say she appeared as Turandot somewhere, it needs some opera house's program or - better - a review, or another independent reliable source. Not her website, not a management's site. Ideally, even without DYK, that true for all facts on Wikipedia. - Perhaps next format the opera titles? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Gagagracija, sorry, I think you misunderstood, I didn't mean "table format" what we don't need, I meant too detailed information. I'll be out for the day. Can you think about what short (!) information about her would be most urgent to be known, and write that, - not change the rest, keep for later, but have one corner (best on top) to work one. Once I explain, you can later expand. Also please let me know if you get a ping for this message. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:06, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I got a message on my email, that is most likely the "ping". In this case, there is a lot of info on the net, reviews, advertisements, back to 2000. For performances, operabase is very good factual source that comes from opera venues. For recordings, WorldCat oclc numbers give details who sung or did what and when. Any internet place that sells a dvd or cd gives all details. I can get enough facts, but so little prose. Gagagracija (talk) 15:07, 16 October 2019 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gagagracija (talk • contribs) 15:04, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Ritchie, what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

One more bit of advice: please add edit summaries for your changes, always. It helps to find a certain edit, and to follow the process. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * That all sounds like sound advice to me, Gerda. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  09:39, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Strategy and to-do
We plan to first write and polish a short article. Please define what should be in it, leaving the complete infomation below, under a different header such as "Full version", for later use.

Things to observe:
 * No links to common terms such as voice and conducting
 * No links to countries and their capitals
 * No links to composers when opera has an article, usually only composer's last name, full name only when less-known (no reason for any Amadeus in the whole article)
 * References after punctuation
 * No external links in the prose
 * Inline citations
 * Usually link a term only once, exception twice when in lead (summary) and body, - no more unless perhaps in a table

To be continued, good luck! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:30, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Step subset
I made now a subset of the article, with everything as I found it at the bottom, to be used sooner or later. I suggest we go for DYK, which requires that the facts are referenced by inline citations. Please look at Tijl Faveyts for the formatting, - on the Main page today ;) I need to do a few more things.

What I noticed:
 * We dont need references for how great Mirella Freni is, we need one saying R. took a master class with her.
 * I noticed several apostrophs that were not straight, - use straight when you find one different.
 * I stopped roles and theatre when I reached Turandot. Please pick only a few of what follows, and make paragraphs. Enjoy! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 9 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't believe that Cherubino is a minor role ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Ref Australia
I went a step further: adding the site of Opera Australia as a ref. Please see how you can call a reference by name, and use it for those facts it supports. I gave an example for her first Abigaille. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2019 (UTC)