User talk:Gamtininkas

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Gamtininkas! I have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on or by typing helpme at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or place helpme on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! LouriePieterse (talk) 10:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
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BRD
Please familiarize yourself with the project rules. Discuss before reverting. Just reverting is seen as disruptive and may lead to sanctions. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 16:32, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Alternative names in lede
Hi, please see my comment here.


 * NAME states: "significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence or paragraph.".
 * Lede states: "In articles about people, literary and artistic works, scientific principles and concepts, and other subjects, the title can be followed in the first line by one or two alternative names in parentheses".
 * WP:PLACE states: "The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parentheses, e.g.: Gulf of Finland (Estonian: Soome laht; Finnish: Suomenlahti; Russian: Финский залив, Finskiy zaliv; Swedish: Finska viken) is a large bay in the easternmost arm of the Baltic Sea." and "Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted".

Since these guidelines and policies apply to all the articles from which you are removing the Polish versions of the names, your edits are in violation of these policies and guidelines. You are also required to use the talk page when making controversial changes, especially ones which other editors disagree with (and judging by how many different users reverted your edits, there is quite a number of these).

I would appreciate it if you self-reverted your changes. If you want to discuss the naming policies themselves then bring it up at the talk page of the linked pages, or at some central article. Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:49, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Labas, Gamtininkai. There is a relatively simple solution for most of these because Lithuanian places almost always have at least three alternate names, often more – Polish, German, Russian, Belarussian, Yiddish and the various transliterations thereof, especially the last three. So if the article is very short – no subsections – put the alternate names in a separate paragraph; if the article has sections, create a names section. Either way, write “The (entity’s) alternate names include…” and list the ones mentioned by the United States Board on Geographic Names website. To find these, click here for ‘foreign’ names. Select Lithuania from the drop-down menu; enter place name; click search database. A list of alternate names will appear. Copy these, put them in the article. Reference it to “United States Board on Geographic Names – (entity name). Accessed January 20, 2014.” I’ve just done this with Musninkai. If you have any questions or problems with this procedure, please post them here and I’ll do my best to help. (The site is inaccessible sometimes, and I usually need to go back to the above link to do the next one, it doesn’t refresh well.)

I realize this involves some effort. But walking vien takais dorybės usually does. Novickas (talk) 15:13, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Gulf of Finland borders with Finland (official languages - Finnish, Swedish), Estonia (Estonian), Russia (Russian). So I think this example shouldn't be used this time. I can also add examples to this category where alternative names are well-known: Baltic sea, Danube, La Manche, etc. This time we are talking about names of towns in specific country.

As you know modern day Belarus was ruled by Grand Duchy of Lithuania many years ago. So we can use Lithuanian names in all towns and villages of Belarus? No, you can find these Lithuanian names only in that articles where is a significant relations with Lithuanian history (like Lida, Grodno) or lives Lithuanian minority. So my opinion is that we shouldn't use these Polish names in all towns just because Lithuania was part of Rzeczpospolita or at Interwar period Vilnius Region was occupied by Poland. Labanoras, Kaltanėnai, Marcinkonys - old Lithuanies villages without any relations with Polish culture. Deltuva, Pabaiskas even were not part of Vilnius Region. Why need to use Polish names there?

Eišiškės, Šalčininkai - these towns are Polish cultural centers, where Polish majority lives. Bilingual names in these articles are logical. --- Naturalist  talk (aptarimas)  17:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)


 * NAME. Lede. WP:PLACE. These matter more than your opinion. I'm sure there might be some Belarussian places which should have Lithuanian names in them. But see WP:OTHERSTUFF. Places in the Vilnius region, which still have a substantial Polish minority (or even majority), and which were part of Poland, obviously qualify under these policies and guidelines. There are also places outside of the Vilnius region (especially in the old Lauda region) which qualify because of their connection to Polish history and culture. We can discuss the particular cases of Deltuva and Pabaiskas on the respective talk pages.Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, I don't like seeing time and effort spent on these sorts of discussions when there is an relatively easy solution that respects Lithuania’s multicultural history. I think the effort involved in discussing this issue in the many individual articles would be more productively spent on improving the articles in question – to me, that includes putting in the alternate names that the US Board of names sees as relevant.

Since I'm not sure if you're aware of this, G - there are Wikipedia policies called WP:3RR and Edit warring. If multiple editors restore these names in the lead, and you remove them, you could end up being blocked or getting a formal warning, both of which stay on your record forever and will be used against you in any Wiki-dispute. The other editors may or may not be scolded or formally warned about it.

On a related note - it'd be nice to include a reliable source's take about the origins of an LT place name. I tried this site but nothing came back for the several place names I tried. Or personal names - Gediminas. The site contains a message that is, to me, ambiguous but discouraging - "kol kas neieškota (arba nerasta) nieko." Budget cuts? Do you know of anything wrt to this database, or can you suggest a book? Novickas (talk) 18:25, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

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