User talk:GarrieIrons/Westfields in Australia

ACT
Hi - For your collection - there is a Westfield in the Belconnen Town Centre and at Westfield Woden. I think one generic article rather than lots of separate ones is much more interesting and encyclopaedic. Regards--A Y Arktos\talk 21:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Feel free to follow my model and copy and paste their entire article into the ACT section. Then tidy up the section levels until they reflect the Sydney section. Garrie

Tables

 * A suggestion - what about putting major franchises into a table, rather than repeating the details for each of the many centres.

There are quite a few franchises so a table of them all may be too wide but you could have separate tables for major department stores and supermarkets, and another table for major specialty retailers and another for major services such as Hoyts or whatever.

I think tables might highlight similarities and reduce the repetitiveness of sections for each of the Westfields.

I think they are quite aggressive (OK I know that is POV) to their tennants too - perhaps there could be a section on tenant relations / centre management - not sure what sources there are out there.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * personally I was quoting some of the food-court and smaller outlets in a bit of a cynical way. They are not notable enough to list! If ali-baba kebabs are notable then let someone make the article and link it back to this article if they think to do it. I don't want it to be a directory.
 * Having said that, Mt Druitt is notable for having NEITHER a Myer NOR a David Jones. Bondi Junction (the "Junger") is notable for housing the only Austrailian venue for some big-name US - based outlets (like Max Mara and Armani Exchange). That is not "directory information" but it is what makes these locations notable. When Westfields get it right, you don't know which location you are in (same concept as timelessness in a casino).
 * I considered creating McDonalds Emerton, New South Wales and proposing it for deletion - but then calling up the AFD debate for these smaller shopping malls, to show how rediculous they all are. But I decided against it... ;) Garrie 00:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * A second note - the existing layout was created by copy&paste from existing articles and fiddling with section levels. I would personally remove a lot of the lists. I think the top list of core outlets which are at most locations belongs there, but the others - probably not. I would go with an infobox for each location showing:
 * Suburb
 * Public transport info
 * Key supermarkets
 * Key department stores
 * Floor space
 * Number of outlets
 * Turnover if it's avaialble, or net rental return?
 * I guess there is some scope in there for other info such as playgrounds, number of food courts
 * I guess there is some scope in there for other info such as playgrounds, number of food courts

Garrie 00:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Westfields in Aust - the terrifying overall picture

 * 53 of the things, 10,900 shops, 3.4 million sq metres of leasable space, worth $20.4 billion Aust.

I was looking for tennant management. The waffle (from the link above) is: ''Property management, marketing and leasing activities: Shopping centre management involves leasing and the day-to-day management and marketing of the centres. The Westfield Group's approach is to maximise returns by creating an efficient and dynamic environment for retailers and a quality shopping experience for consumers. This involves developing a strong relationship and working closely with retailers to provide an appropriate platform so that retailers will have the opportunity to enhance their performance. This is in addition to developing a strong relationship with consumers by supporting the local community of each shopping centre through various marketing activities.''

Some tenant criticism at  - '' But tenants say they do feel pressured to comply and are concerned about the impact of the longer hours on their personal lives. '' --A Y Arktos\talk 22:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's the sort of thing an article such as this desperately needs. Simply copying the store directory at westfield.com into a big list is of dubious worth. Mako 22:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The issue will be sources - tenants (I think it is one n now that I have woken up) are not noted for their crticism of such a poweful entity on whom they depend for their livelihood.  We certainly however need to be mindful of Reliable sources - hence the blather about eveloping a strong relationship and working closely with retailers to provide an appropriate platform so that retailers will have the opportunity to enhance their performance needs to be translated but it will be a challenge to introduce the neutrality without original research. --A Y Arktos\talk 22:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

That is exactly the kind of information that belongs here rather than the directory list-cruft which occupies the existing Westfields in my suburb articles. I am more than happy for there to be 300+ redirects pointing to a specific section in this one article. But unless someone is going to get Westfields Bondi Junction up to FA status then why keep it? Garrie


 * Unfortunately redirects can't point to a specific section :-(.
 * Um - why not ? I just tried it and it works fine (from a technical viewpoint only) Garrie
 * I don't think we need Westfield Woden, and Woden Town Centre as well as the suburb article - 2 out of 3 maybe - ie the town centre and the suburb - the Westfield should definitely be a redirect to the general concept of a Westfield centre and perhaps that needs to be built up without sections on each of the 59 but a more general approach
 * A table of 59 malls gets proabably too big but maybe some data to say, DJs is in 2/3 of the malls, Myers in 3/4, very few malls have neither, similarly Target and Big W .. Westfields thus maintain a close relationship with both major retailers - sort of a 2 retailer policy that reminds me of the 2 airline policy.
 * Then with other chains, one could talk about middle sized chains like A&R whose expansion in the 80s was probably linked to Westfield's expansion.
 * Some of the smaller chains such as Boost juices probably rely on their relationship with Westfields to develop their franchise. The development of franchises like Boost juices (I assume they are a franchise - maybe not) - or The Muffin Man or Its Time / High Time watch repairers, or Sunglasses shops - they are only interesting in the aggregate and in understanding the cookie-cutter approach you alluded to.  Shops under escalators and in the middle of corridors seem to be a recent phenomenon as a way of increasing retail space.  Food halls are also not that old.
 * Declaration of interest - I loathe shopping in these things and venture there as rarely as possible but do sometimes. I don't regard retail as therapy!
 * creating an article such as a particular McDonalds, and proposing it for deletion would probably be seen as breaching WP:Point - humour is sometimes really hard to interpret and some of us are of course just humourless.--A Y Arktos\talk 00:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, it'd be YOUR job to get it deleted. I'd be rounding up all those people who argued to keep the various shopping centres, to keep McDonalds Emerton, and I'd be using it as a template for about 20 more articles... yeah it might get me kicked for a bit but anyway....Garrie

long table of contents
Please see my request at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#long_table_of_contents Garrie

Notability requirements for Shopping Mall articles
To Satori Son:  Hi, you recently voted to keeep the article Macarthur Square. Could you please suggest something that could be added to the article to make it notable compared to all the other articles for shopping malls on Wikipedia? I ask this because I cannot see what makes one shopping centre notable compared to the one in the next suburb. Not every house has an article, why should every shopping centre? Thanks, I hope to implement some of your suggestions. I am happy to conduct a reasonable amount of web-based investigation to implement some of your thoughts. --Garrie 05:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * All Westfields are the same. Please see my suggestion that All Westfields are the same, and my proposed new article, Westfields in Australia.--Garrie 05:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry I took so long to respond on this one, but I wanted to do a little research and think about this one for a bit. My vote on Macarthur Square was a Weak Keep, and now that I've had a little more experience with AfD's it may have been a Weak Delete.  I think the problem is that so may editors have widely differing views as to what is notable for buildings and geographic locations.  For example, when it comes to a town or village, most editors believe there is no requirement for notability whatsoever.  If it exists, no matter how small, it should have its own article.  On the other end of the notability spectrum is the WP:BIO policy for persons, which has a pretty high threshold for inclusion. Buildings and other commercial structures are probably somewhere in between, although the proposed WP:HOTELS is also pretty strict and I do agree with much of it.  I guess, though, I really don't have enough experience to say exactly what my personal threshold is for shopping malls.  I will say that this proposed article, User:GarrieIrons/Westfields in Australia, is a great idea for the subject(s) and a step in the right direction.  Thanks for all your efforts.  --Satori Son 18:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)