User talk:Gateman1997/Archive1

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CA/SR 17
Hi!

Thanks ofr all the contributions you've made recently with the Ca/SR project (esp. the CA US Highway shields!). Just to let you know, we (SPUI, and a lot of the other CA/SR wikiporject members and I) have tried to move CA/SR 17 to its correct article name before. But, Nohat and centgreen have fought back fiercely; so we have reached a compromise at California State Highway 17. (Previously they wanted California Highway 17). atanamir 21:34, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Revert of Image:Interstate-580.png
what was wrong with it?

casr template
Do we need the template anymore? Because it wound up on Templates for deletion.

--Rschen7754 20:20, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Business Loop Interstate 8 (El Centro, California)
You changed and then removed the category of Business Loop Interstate 8 (El Centro, California). Every page should have a category. To solve the problem I propose:
 * 1) restore it into "interstate" category, because the name of the loop (it is more natural place to find it, we are not an official list), and possibly add some comment about the real type of the highway.
 * 2) or create a new categories for not 'interstate", not "state".. hghiways.

I'd say a new cat is in orderGateman1997 17:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Padres-Mariners "rivalry"?
That one Ann Nonymous character has been inventing rivalries for all the teams. The only rivalry I can think of between San Diego and Seattle is that they are in the same time zone. Wahkeenah 18:16, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Hey... actually the Mariners/Padres rivalry is a 'manufactured' rivalry. Because there are some true interleague natural rivalries, such as cubs/whitesox, and MLB wants them to play each other every year, all the teams were assigned a yearly interleague opponent. Mariners and Padres were one of the assignments. So it's not a true rivalry, but it is referred to as a rivalry by MLB. Measure 18:20, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that makes it a rivalry however. If no fans, and no players feel it's a rivalry MLB can claim it is all they want... but calling the sky green doesn't make it so. Gateman1997 18:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with that sentiment... the rivalry is so fierce that the two teams share spring training facilities, leading to dozens of handshakes and for all I know, lunches together. Better hire some more security... Measure 19:02, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Dogs and cats sleeping together! Mass hysteria!

The lightbulb finally comes on here in the northwoods. Measure's explanation points the way to a solution. We need to distinguish between "Historical" or "Traditional" rivalries (i.e the ones mostly generated by fan interest, such as Giants-Dodgers, Yankees-Red Sox, Cubs-Cardinals, Cubs-White Sox, etc.) and "Recent" or "Manufactured" rivalries. Having said that, it's worth pointing out that all rivalries are to some extent "manufactured" by the folks who run the sports, through franchise location and scheduling. Bill Veeck once fomented a rivalry in the American Association between his Milwaukee team and the St. Paul club, by going on the radio in Minneapolis and purposely bad-mouthing St. Paul as a city, figuring that the irate St. Paul fans would show up at Lexington Park to vent their wrath. He actually did that as a favor to the struggling St. Paul club owner... and it worked. But as Dick Clark said during the "Payola" investigations of the late 1950s, no amount of hype can turn a dud into a hit. It sounds like Seattle-San Diego falls into that category. Wahkeenah 19:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

You are definitely on to something, however it may be hard to distinguish beteen the two types of rivalries in some cases. For instance the A's-Mariners... it's a partly manufactured, but it's also partly traditional based on the teams being in the same division. Gateman1997 19:47, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Being in the same division and being in a pennant race together ensures a rivaly. But that can be transitional, depending on who's hot and who's not in a given season or group of seasons. However, your comment gets to the nub of the issue I have raised with others on this "rivalry" stuff: It's POINT-OF-VIEW, which is supposedly forbidden by wikipedia. However, it's also only baseball, not Darwin's Theory of Evolution, or Bill O'Reilly. And there IS a possible way to take it out of the POV category and confirm it: By seeing if average attendance goes up significantly at those "rivalry" games. We can rely on conventional wisdom to some degree. It's not POV to say there is a fierce rivalry between the Red Sox and the Yankees. That's as clear as the Dodger Blue sky. But it has been heightened by being in the same division for decades. The Cubs and Mets used to be fierce rivals, but are less so now that they are in different divisions and play each other less often. The Cubs' rivalries with the Cardinals and White Sox are easily demonstrable. But to assert that a "rivalry" exists between the likes of the Pods and the Mariners, one would have to cite attendance figures. I doubt Ann Nonymous would want to take the time to do that, but if he did, that would be fine. Similarly, I can tell you that there's a strong rivalry with the Twins and the White Sox or the Twins and the Yankees, because I know attendance goes up when those teams come to town. There might be a rivalry with the Indians, also, but I can't prove it attendance-wise, so I would leave it alone pending further review. And I would say the A's and the Twins used to be fierce rivals, but not so much now that they are in different divisions. Wahkeenah 20:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

You again make very good points. I think the solution is actually quite simple. Divisional rivalries should be eliminated as they are both transitory and a given since they are all fighting for first place. The only exeptions that should be left seperate I think are Giants-Dodgers and RedSox-Yankees as both rivalries are steeped in tradition and have been going on for the better part of a century. Both have trancended the sport and have become cultural.

The only other rivalries that should be kept separate are ones that would not redily be obvious (ie:divisional) and have some greater cultural/social significance. For instance A's-Giants Rivalry is a tangible and ongoing rivalry that trancends the sport and has gone into the very fabric of the region especially since the 89 World Series both economically and socially. Both teams have been embroiled in legal disputes over territory and money for years. I would say the same for all the cross town rivalries like LA, Chicago, NY, and possibly the two Ohio and Missouri teams. Baltimore/Washington may fit this in the future, however the Nats are too recent to the region for it to have developed yet. All are instances where the teams both compete on field and off for fans and money. Gateman1997 20:10, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Alrighty then... what I or someone should do is walk through all 30 clubs, purge all but the obvious rivalries (i.e. the ones for which articles have already been written), and label all the others as being either POV or transitory and thus not worthy of inclusion. Do y'all agree? Wahkeenah 20:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, please check Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox and see how you like the looks of it. Wahkeenah 22:57, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm too casual an editor to get involved in a project that size... no way i'm going to add all 30 teams to my watchlist... I'll just make sure the padres don't creep their way back onto the mariners rivalry list without some good justification on the mariners talk page... Measure 23:38, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

No, I just wanted you to look briefly at those pages and see if they look OK. I'll take care of all 30 of them, slowly. I don't want to waste too much effort in case Ann Nonymous makes another appearance. I also changed San Diego and Seattle, so please review those also and modify as needed. I'm not aware that there was any special rivalry between San Diego and Houston, but I could be wrong. Wahkeenah 23:55, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Please review Votes_for_deletion/Baxter_Boulevard
The version you saw has been found to be false. Please re-check the article, and vote accordingly. Thanks for your work on Wikipedia! JesseW 22:47, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

US Interstate highway stub problems
At WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals there is an ongoing debate about U.S. Interstate Highway Stub and US Highway stub... --Rschen7754 00:35, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

List of California County Routes
Please read Naming conventions: "Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is a proper noun..." Blank Verse  &empty; 03:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A California County Route is a proper noun. Also, explain List of California State Routes, List of Arizona State Routes, Manual of Style please. Or more importantly Wikipedia The Free Encyclopedia <over there to the right.Gateman1997 03:20, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh no.... here we go again. I suppose you could edit the lowercase redirect so it can't be moved... but this could be considered unethical... --Rschen7754 17:35, August 8, 2005 (UTC) Well... sounds good... but how do you do that exactly? Besides if we changed the caps, then wouldn't we have to change California State Route 13 to California state route 13? (Just a side note: article titles cause the most aggravation on Wikipedia, see Talk:California State Highway 17). --Rschen7754 17:44, August 8, 2005 (UTC) Well the I-580 move is legit, there is an I-580 in Nevada (hidden). The 3di one is not however.... --Rschen7754 22:44, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should go onto all the road WPs and put a note on everyone's talk page to get their opinion... --Rschen7754 17:51, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Done... I'll go onto Highways too. Is there an AZ WP? I wasn;t aware of it. --Rschen7754 18:01, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * You accidentally said county highways on the CASR wp page... I'd fix it but the page is so long my browser won't let me... --Rschen7754 18:08, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry... I meant Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California_State_Highways. Wait a second... that article has all of its words capitalized (except for talk.) --Rschen7754 18:13, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Read User_talk:Radiojon's talk page... it gets worse. How are the arguments on the 2 talk pages?--Rschen7754 23:34, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh-oh... we're losing county and the posts have slowed...--16:12, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * What would really kill Squib's argument would be a style manual showing "California State Routes". I did the google argument; how did I do? --17:44, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * So is it over or something? --17:15, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I moved it... if a riot doesn;t ensue then it'll be over. --Rschen7754 17:22, August 15, 2005 (UTC) 17:22, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh boy... Squib is complaining about the consensus thing on state. --Rschen7754 19:34, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Good grief... they must hate anyone who works on the highways wp by now. Shouldn't we be the ones deciding this since it is our WP?--Rschen7754 17:48, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * This gets more and more frustrating. Is it possible for them to still move the pages back since they ganged up on us? --Rschen7754 21:06, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Preschools on VfD
So, what is your relationship to User:BillyCreamCorn and how long have you two known each other? &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 00:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * He's a friend of mine from work. I just introduced him to Wikipedia a few weeks ago. Gateman1997 00:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * So that explains the same IP address, a shared proxy? &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 00:47, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah he's in the next cube, well half cube. We're really short on space and internet proxies. Though we do move in a month or two. Never thought I'd be happy to get a cubicle of my own. (Think Office Space). Gateman1997 00:49, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Village Preschool of Saratoga
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I've voted to keep that too. I'm firmly of the belief that there is absolutely no harm in having short, well-written articles on any and everything, including preschools. Wikipedia is not harmed by its inclusion and not made any better by its deletion. Philip Arthur 06:44, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Duveneck School (2nd Nom.).
I'm wondering why you have messaged me about this? You say an "equally non-notable school" &mdash; equally to what? -Splash 19:07, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But I don't participate in the school keep or school delete cabals, and I don't plan to join either of them. -Splash 19:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * ''He was referring to the | Sacred Heart School Vote for Deletion that you participated in. --jonasaurus 19:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

thanks for the heads up. I don't see a reason why ANY school should be listen before it is involed in a major (or even minor) event. I strongly believe that articles stating the location, the principal, and the school colors have no place on wikipedia... Let me know if you find anything like this in the future. Thanks. --jonasaurus 19:21, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think Splash hit the nail on the head. To my knowledge, nobody is going around soliciting keep votes for schools on talk pages.  And yet we've got a clear case of some egregious vote soliciting going on in an attempt to get delete votes.  Most interesting. --Tony Sidaway Talk  19:25, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Your vote packing Schools VfDs
Just countering the "keep" cabal by informing previously interested parties. As you can see many are interested and have voted as such. It is no different then the User:GRider/Schoolwatchsite or Watch/schoolwatch/Votes for deletion archive which advocate saving all school articles regardless of merit.Gateman1997 19:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * No, those are public pages, not user talk pages. Nobody came and told me to look at schoolwatch, I just noticed that it existed in Violetriga's Wikipedia:Watch project, and decided to subscribe to it.  There literally is no Cabal--I'm not just saying that.


 * User talk pages tend to be more private, and the fact that you only placed the messages on the talk pages of particular voters who had voted in a certain way suggests to me that you intended to influence the vote unfairly in the direction of deletion. I don't doubt that a few of them were interested, but before you start doing this regularly I want you to consider:
 * I don't want to emulate your behavior.
 * If I did emulate you, I'd do it far, far better and get much better results, if only because the raw number of school inclusionists is larger than the raw number of school deletionists.
 * If I were forced to do this it would be perceived as a an act taken reluctantly to counter your vote-stacking efforts. People are more highly motivated when they are acting to correct a perceived wrongdoing.
 * I regard this as an attempt to subvert VfD and will almost certainly take it to RfC if you continue.


 * Instead I offer a fairer alternative. It would be fine if you were to recommend publicly that people subscribe to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Schools and make a habit of voting on the cases brought there. This would be neutral and nobody would legitimately suspect that you were attempting to stack the vote on schools, as is the case now when you are soliciting votes on individual talk pages of people you have obviously chosen because of their past voting record. If, as you appear to believe, most Wikipedia people would agree with you on the school deletion issue, then it follows that by increasing voting on school VfDs you will increase the number of schools that are deleted, without having to resort to underhand methods. --Tony Sidaway Talk  20:11, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think two pages are necessary. Let's just edit any trace of advocacy from the existing schoolwatch, and then you and I can both use it. --Tony Sidaway Talk  20:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, predictions can go, please feel free to remove them (mark "by agreement with Tony" in the edit summary). And a neutral reference to BEEFSTEW is fine. --Tony Sidaway Talk 20:55, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Advice to vote on a school article's current merit and future potential is fine, too. --Tony Sidaway Talk 20:58, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Thumbs up. --Tony Sidaway Talk 21:13, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Well I wish all our dealings on Wikipedia could be as smooth. Without being too ambitious, I'd like to suggest that we try in a quiet way to build on this. We may differ on school votes but it seems to me that much of the bad feeling is due to mutual distrust and accusations on both sides. --Tony Sidaway Talk 00:30, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I too am a bit uncomfortable with the comments on my talk page pointing me to a specific article. I agree with your stance on this issue although, as I have noted elsewhere, I believe that if we are in the minority we should not aggressively pursue change. I am glad to see Schoolwatch becoming a more neutral starting-point for the improvement of Wikipedia as an indirect result of this. ESkog 04:19, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Just wondering... Tony said about Gateman's schoolwatch that he "regard[s] this as an attempt to subvert VfD and will almost certainly take it to RfC if you continue." This makes me wonder why he has never objected to GRider's schoolwatch, or taken it to RfC. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 13:40, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have no objections to being informed of a school VfD, and would welcome it. I will be watching the Deletion Sorting as well. I don't think there's any problem with informing other users about a relevant vote on a topic they are interested in, be they for or against deletion. The more votes, the better sense of consensus, I think. &Euml;vilphoenix Burn! 03:11, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Yuckfoo now electioneering
Just when you and I thought we'd put everything to rest something like this happens, User talk:Longhair. Yuckfoo is not soliciting opposing votes. Gateman1997 06:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I've politely asked him to stop, pointing out the possible adverse consequences and describing my agreement with you. See my response on Yuckfoo's talk page. --Tony Sidaway Talk 12:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

are you really teh same person as User:67.170.236.180 Yuckfoo 07:45, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * No I'm not. Why?Gateman1997 17:58, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * because on all the pages everyone is saying that you created a fake school article just to make a point is that true? Yuckfoo 03:55, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Jack Elementary School, Portland, Maine
I recognise great work when I see it. --Tony Sidaway Talk 21:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, I never&mdash; Keep up the great work, Gateman1997. Now you're moving in the right direction. &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 05:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

BEEFSTEW
You ask: "Would it be possible for me to borrow your beefstew list?"

Well, sure, like everything else in Wikipedia it's under GFDL. But let me say a couple of things about it.


 * I formally say that it is "strictly for my own use" because I do not want to see a lot of effort spent fine-tuning it or tweaking it or fussing over whether particular criteria in it are fair or unfair.
 * It's a very rough screening tool, not a refined measurement instrument.
 * It's aimed toward identifying really bad school articles, not at evaluating how good the decent article are.
 * I worry a little bit about the effect of publicizing it, as it is easy to inflate a BEEFSTEW score without necessarily writing a very good article. BEEFSTEW is an OK tool for evaluating articles written by people that don't know about BEEFSTEW, but once people know about it the Heisenberg effect comes into play. An example of this is Dr. Michael M. Krop High School, which is the result of a user systematically trying to get a perfect 10 BEEFTSTEW score item by item. It's not a bad article, but shows obvious signs of BEEFSTEW bloat.

But, anyway, glad you like it. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:26, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Dawn Bible Students Association
Hi. I had already done the merge and redirect, and was in the process of closing the vfd when you voted. Sorry about that, but the nominator only asked for the article to be merged, and I make a point of closing those fast because VfD is simply not the place for such requests. -- BD2412 talk 21:36, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

User page revert
You're welcome! As to how we do it, sometimes when I'm too uncreative to write articles I just watch Recent Changes and revert all the vandalism I see. When an anon IP hits someone's User: space, close to 100% of the time it's vandalism so I just hit the admin rollback button after looking at the diff. (Btw, if your user page gets vandalized often it means you're doing something right.) Keep up the good work, and hello from a fellow Californian (I assume ... ) Antandrus  (talk) 02:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Missing Copyright tag
Please tag http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SJ_J4.GIF It was uploaded by you. Thanks Share_Bear -Share Bear 20:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Bisexuality
Hey there, just wanted to compliment you on your timing, I was about to remove that template myself, but found you beat me to it when I reached the edit screen :) Regards, Joolz 22:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Re:Wfd
Sure, no problem. Just trying to help. Karmafist 03:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Gotcha, I assumed that Agriculture's change to delete was just sulking on his part. Karmafist 04:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

WfD: Sockpuppets
Do I have evidence that those six I mentioned (to which I'd now add FreePeopleAreHappyPeople) are sockpuppets of one another? I don't have access to their IPs. But I note the following: All accounts were created (or at least their user pages) within an hour or so of each other; all sign their posts with an em dash two hyphens between the last word and the user name, with no space; all use camelcase; all or most have similar spelling problems; all or most userpages are similar in look and feel, with images etc. And all voted Keep within minutes of each other, with the very slight variances you'd expect from a clever sockpuppetteer. -EDM 22:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Also - no contributions by any of them to anything but this VfD and to their own user pages, and in a few cases they have contributed to each other's user pages. It's about as clear as can be. -EDM 22:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Apple Store Stanford Shopping Center
Is the store in the US and if so what state? CambridgeBayWeather 21:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'd never heard of the centre at all until now. CambridgeBayWeather 21:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Palo Alto Montessori School
Hi Gateman, the bicycle is a reference to the vote by RaD Man; nothing more. That vote did not influence the result of the VfD at all. Eugene van der Pijll 07:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Dodger "rivals"
Hello, I wanted to let you know I reversed the rivals listed on the Dodgers page. The division rivals are already listed in the MLB template at the bottom of the page and the Giants rivalry and Angels rivaly are already listed on the page as links to an entire article on the rivalry. I just wanted to give you a head's up that the general consensus has been to quickly remove the rivals from pages; this decision was arrived at a few months ago, so if you wanted to discuss it, I believe there is a discussion on the MLB talk page. Before you revert the page back, please debate it either on the MLB talk page, or the Dodgers' talk page. Have a good day! --CrazyTalk 17:37, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Re: Oakland A's
Other users have deemed this type of rivals list to be POV and have removed it from MLB team articles. Examples: ,, , ,.

Differing views = POV Where would you like to consider this conversation? Your talk page or mine? Win777 17:29, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

There may be something here. There is a long-standing geographical rivalry between San Francisco and Oakland that goes back well before the Giants and A's moved there. This fits the Cubs-ChiSox rivalry and the Yanks-BoSox rivalry. I think you should write a separate page (as with those I've mentioned) and write about it. Then you could link to it from the main article about the Giants AND the A's, as with those other rivalries. You could talk about the 'Frisco Seals and the Oakland Oaks, about how Dorothy Parker took a famous shot at Oakland ("There's no 'there' there!") and that sort of thing. Then you could present these lively facts in a way that would be interesting and useful. As far as "Divisional Rivals" on these various pages, that's totally absurd due to its redundancy. Wahkeenah 19:50, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

(Off-topic: Just looking back on this. I didn't realize I edited your user page. Sorry about that. I haven't been the same since an idiotic Red Sox fan threw a baseball to the back of my head when I wasn't looking. -- Win777 20:45, 23 August 2005 (UTC))


 * So, what's it like, rooting for a team that hasn't won the World Series in 5 years? Wahkeenah 20:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC) (Cubs fan)


 * You're a Cubs fan... and you're asking me about FIVE years? It's not too bad. This year's inconsistency is driving me crazy, though. How does it feel to be plagued by a goat and Bartman? *Does the Bartman (Bart Simpsons' Bartman)* -- Win777 21:46, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd talk smack back, except the A's have been playing like bush leaguers this week.Gateman1997 22:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Let's put it this way: The last time the Cubs won the Series was the year "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" was written.  See, that's the beauty of being a Cubs fan:  No inconsistencies, no worries.  Goats?  Bartman?  Poison ivy?  No problem.  Mere blips in 135 years of baseball in the Windy City.  The Yankees start every year hoping to win the Series.  The Cubs start every year hoping to finish at or above .500.  'Tis a whole 'nother world.  d:)  Wahkeenah 22:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * He's got a point. A lame excuse of a point... but a point.Gateman1997 23:22, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Stardestroyer.net
If you check the deletion log, you will see you are blaming the wrong admin. Things are back (for the moment). --Allen3 talk 19:38, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

A couple of images nominated for deletion
Hi, I've nominated the images Image:Interstate-480.PNG and Image:Interstate-480.png.gif, posted by you, for deletion as they are not used anywhere and they have been replaced by Image:Interstate-480b.png. –Mysid (talk ) 10:59, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

York Hill
"Was this made to just make a WP:POINT?Gateman1997 01:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)"


 * No, why would I do that? --Kennyisinvisible 01:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Who says I created it? That's not my ip. --Kennyisinvisible 01:34, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Are we looking at the same thing? [] --Kennyisinvisible 01:38, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR Track Template
I really like your resdesign of the Track infobox! It looks a lot better (organization-wise). I prefer it over the old format.

BTW, you used to work for Apple? That is sweet! Wikipedianinthehouse 21:38, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Any kind of article you would delete?
Replied on my talk page User_talk:Machtzu :Another reply! :And a final one

I've posted the discussion on Village Pump Policy just thought I should let you know--Machtzu 00:43, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Complement - "...cool User page!"
Hi! I was browsing your User page and I wanted to complement you for having a cool User page! :-) UniReb 18:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Connie Mack Stadium
It could have been 360 to temporary bleachers or field seating or something. 378 (to the permanent wall) makes more sense to list than 360. Whatever. Wahkeenah 20:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Historically speaking, the 378 to the outer wall (which was there from the beginning, as far as I know) had a lot more impact (most of 1909 until 1925) than a temporary fence for a partial season. It depends on whether you want to show a history of the dimension changes, or just the last one, or what. That aspect of the recently-created infobox I find confusing. There is no "current" dimension to the ballpark, as it has been demolished for 3 decades now. Wahkeenah 20:53, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm curious to know what your source is for the opening day being 360. In any case, the infobox for past and present could just say "Dimensions" and leave it at that. However, I got wrung up on one page for listing the history of the dimensions and someone rubbed it out arguing it was too much detail. Well, that's a matter of opinion. Dimensions are a matter of interest to many because they have to do with hitting vs. pitching, among other things. Anyway, what's your view on the extent to which the history of dimensions should be covered? Wahkeenah 21:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm a lifelong (or life-sentence) Cubs fan. This has been kind of a miserable year to watch them, but I've had an extremely busy summer work-wise, so thankfully I haven't seen them very often this year. I live in Minneapolis now so they have become my American League adoptive team. I used to be more of an Orioles fan. I even saw Cal Ripken get his 3,000th hit here in the Dome. You're from the Bay Area, evidently, hence (Golden) Gateman, yes? It must be exasperating at times to watch the Oakland A's, although if you've been around long enough you at least have some World Championship teams to remember fondly. The A's, throughout their history going back to Philly, have had short bursts of great success with lengthy stretches of mediocrity and penny-pinching management in between. That book, "Money Ball", which could also have been titled "Beane Ball", shows how to make the best of a bad situation and have a successful regular season... but in the long run, spending is required to win championships, as the Yankees and Red Sox and other high-salary teams know. It's no guarantee of success, but it tips the odds. :\ Wahkeenah 00:03, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

What, you don't like the Coliseum? It's a jewel! In an alternate universe, maybe. Among the multi-purpose stadiums, it has to be one of the worst. Even the "close-up" seats are far away. Then there's "Mount Davis", built as a bribe to bring back the Raiders. But it serves the fat cats in the expensive luxury boxes right, because they have to stare into the sun late in the day in order to watch their team. They forgot there was a reason they aligned the original main seating the way they did. And now they have Randy Moss. That should make things interesting. Anyway, I'm old enough to remember the A's 5 straight divisions wrapped around 3 straight World Series champions in the early 70s. Lemme tell ya, that was one awesome team. And like other past A's teams, as soon as greener pastures arose, the players left like a herd of sheep... in that case, mostly to New York, to an owner with a seemingly bottomless pit of cash. Your fondly-recalled teams of the late 80s very easily could have won 3 straight Series also, not just 1989... but as has seemed to be a pattern with Tony LaRussa's teams, when they get off to a bad start in 88 and 90, they couldn't quite figure out how to get it together again. So, are they going to build Charlie Finley Memorial Stadium next door to the Coliseum, or are they going elsewhere? Or is that even decided yet? Wahkeenah 00:24, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Babelfish
No one by B-f writes anything that long in English and uses "feather" where the context demands "pen". --Jerzy•t 00:49, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Just want to say thanks for your persistent good nature and your wonderfully disarming reaction to my early suspicions about your good faith. I've got an award in mind for you but I have to check with the originator. --Tony Sidaway Talk 23:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Your comments
 * Tony, thanks for your comments. I know I can come off as abrasive, especially over the internet when I'm confronted on issues, but I do mean well. I like to find the middle ground in situations where I can, schools being the latest and best example. Roads too have seen this occuring. Thank you for making it easier to make distinctions between good and bad schools by the way. Your persistance in finding information where available is making it much easier to highlight which schools are and which school's aren't worthy or an article.Gateman1997 23:39, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Dunno what is happening with the roads these days, but I do enjoy research as a game. The roads, and the schools, will stick around. There's nothing you or I can do to stop people wanting to write about them. I would like to establish a good framework in which they could do so. --00:00, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Reliant Astrodome
As opposed to the "Un-Reliant Superdome"? Wahkeenah 22:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeh, I reckon I shouldn't knock the ol' Superdome. All in all, it was probably better than sitting on one's own rooftop for a week. Wahkeenah 22:17, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

And that was just for a few days. Imagine what Noah's Ark (the ancient equivalent) must have been like after 40. No wonder that dove wanted to get outa there. Wahkeenah 22:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

It right much reeked whenever the Saints had a game there. The only thing the Saints can say in their favor is that they aren't the Arizona Cardinals. Wahkeenah 22:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Simpsons Episodes
On the copyvio page, I noted that they came from. I haven't tagged any of them due to the fact that the rest of the articles seemed alright. Basically, if you look at the descriptions from that site and the ones contributed here, you'll notice that they're the same. ErikNY 23:40, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

MLB infobox
Hello, I kind of played around with it and combined mine and yours. I think it looks bettter, but it still needs tinkering. Take a look and let me know what say you.--CrazyTalk 02:28, September 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Me again. I totally re-worked the infobox and pretty much incorporated the positives. I kind of based it on the template used on Sandy Koufax. For the time being, ignore the actual content (i.e., what is missing), just focus on the format. It is the same link as before (look). If you want to edit it, go ahead.
 * I also was wondering if you would mind taking yours off of Oakland for the time being since you stated you were going to get a concensus on it first? I do not intend to offend you, but you appear hesitant to debate(?).--CrazyTalk 11:12, September 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Hello,
 * I think I have finished tinker with that infobox, take yet another look. I cannot figure out how to fit into the box 3 things: logo design, team colors, mascot. By "fit", I mean that they throw off the flow of the box. Any ideas of how to fit them in or put them somewhere else? Also, I have no idea if I am violating any copyright policies with the uniform image, so if you know anything about that go for it. Let me know what you think and I will run it by the Project members. Thanks for your help!--CrazyTalk 02:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Hello,
 * Just wanted to let you know that I am getting most of the information accumulated for the infoboxes and was wondering if you had any input in finalizing a version before it goes live. I am still not sure if I am going to be able to use the uniform image - I am having an admin research the copyright.
 * The main thing I wanted to touch base with you was regarding the minor league affiliates infoxbox. If possible, that infobox should go live the same time the main infobox goes.  I was wondering if you had had time to work on those and if you had a timeframe when they would be ready.  Let me know, have a good one!--CrazyTalk 07:45, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Sorry to hear about your loss. Take your time on the minor league infoboxes, priorities you know.--CrazyTalk 20:37, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Hello,
 * I am nearing completion of the infoboxes for each MLB team and I wanted to run it by a few individuals before I ran it by the project and published them. Check out a finished one here.  Please focus on the info box and not the rest of the page.  Here are some points I wanted some feedback on:
 * was not sure about how to handle "notes" about championships and retired numbers so I stuck the notes on the template
 * I limited the infobox to MAJOR LEAGUE info only, no Western League and no other minor league info
 * stuck Jackie Robinson onto template rather than on each team
 * Any feedback, especially constructive, is much appreciated, have a good one!--CrazyTalk 22:29, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Forgot to mention that I was kind of thinking of putting the info that was left out of the infobox (team colors, team mascot, etc.) at the bottom of the page under a potpourri heading of "Quick facts"; that would allow expansion of those topics (I know Oakland has a lot to be said about their colors, and other teams have a lot to be said about their mascot) while also not cluttering up the infobox.--CrazyTalk 23:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

NH-118
At Articles for deletion/New Hampshire Route 118 there is a VFD debate. --Rschen7754 03:16, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

Merging schools
If you are prepared to see school articles merged why don't you just propose it or do it, instead of listing on Afd? It's too late then. Kappa 18:14, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Because some articles aren't even worthy of that.Gateman1997 18:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * So you are prepared to list something on Afd and have 10 or 20 editors vote on it, and also have an admin spend valuable time wrapping it up, just to get rid of a single redirect? Kappa 18:53, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

iPod nano

 * sales have cooled considerably

Source? AlistairMcMillan 21:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Coliseum names
The point I was trying to make, which got chopped out, was that the public's refusal to kiss up to attempts to rename something is not a "recent" trend. John T. Brush tried to rename the Polo Grounds after himself, after he had spent some bucks rebuilding it after the fire. It went over like a lead balloon, and is essentially a forgotten fact. Then there's Sportsman's Park in St. Louis. That's how it was known for most of its existence. Auggie Busch renamed it after himself, and that's the name I knew it by when I was a kid. Harry Caray used to talk about "Beautiful Busch Stadium", which was only true if you had never seen it. If you mention Busch Stadium to anyone now, though, all they would know about is the current stadium. The old ballpark basically reverted to its old name in the minds of the public and/or historians. By analogy, this reminds me of something that Dick Clark said in a Congressional hearing during the "payola" scandal of the 1950s: "No amount of publicity will turn a dud into a hit". That's as true of "McAfee Coliseum" as it was of various mediocre songs that record spinners were paid to "push" on the air. Wahkeenah 23:41, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I like your wording switch to "rejected". It tells it like it is. Wahkeenah 23:23, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

U.S. route shields
I agree with you about your changing of the routebox shields for Interstate 5. - Evil saltine 04:31, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

US 101
Sorry... only US highways and Interstates are supposed to be major junctions. I felt bad about deleting someone's hard work so I left it. --Rschen7754 23:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
 * So can I put the routeboxus back if I delete all the minor junctions?--Rschen7754 00:00, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The template has to be modified for the CA shield. I wound up deleting all of the CA route junctions since otherwise the routebox was just too long. --Rschen7754 00:53, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Tredington Community Primary School
I thought you had sense. There are literally thousands of victorian primary schools in England alnoe. None of them should be in an encyclopedia. Dunc|&#9786; 22:24, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

List of California State Routes
Someone wants to convert this to a template so it wound up at Articles for deletion/List of California State Routes --Rschen7754 05:27, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Systemwars.com
I started a new stub article on this. Do you want me to undelete the history? The VFU people don't seem to be interested so I thought I'd offer to help you. --Tony Sidaway Talk 23:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll see about adding to the article. SW.com has recently had a large influx of "orphans" from Gamespot which is further increasing it's numbers or users, along with steadily increaing news and information sources. At this point it's already equal to Gamespot or IGN of a few years ago.Gateman1997 00:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay, it's undeleted now. --Tony Sidaway Talk 03:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Systemwars.com
Could you undelete the history for this page so that I may make a copy of it on User:Gateman1997/Systemwars.com.Gateman1997 00:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Please ask at WP:VfU. --fvw *  00:52, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thankfully you don't need to go to VFU to ask for a history-only undeletion. I undeleted the history and put it here:

User:Tony_Sidaway/Systemwars.com

I'm utterly disgusted at these shenanigans. I would grab this quick before they trash the undeletion policy by deleting this, too.. --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:02, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Video iPod
That image is a fake. The image did not come from the BBC. If the BBC reported this story, and didn't just report on a rumour, then why is it not on the BBC News website? AlistairMcMillan 23:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help.
On the highways. I have SPUI a little upset with me of the Interstate 268 debate, which spilled over onto the Corridor H editing. --71Demon 23:49, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

"despite Apple's attempts to cover it up"
See Talk:iPod for audio of the BBC story, that I just recorded off of the BBC website. Thank you for your in depth research. AlistairMcMillan 00:03, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

VA Template Delete Page
Gateman, could you please assist us in our quest to save the VA and WV highway templates. I think you for your vote of undelete but we need some more, could you please assist us in finding more supporters who understand that these are useful and well needed templates? Thank you. --Caponer 01:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Firefly and Serenity
Hey, I don't see that IP address in the history of either. If it was, it wasn't recent. If you have a problem with 3RR, report it at WP:3RR. Sorry I couldn't help, I just dont see a slew of vandalism on those pages. I will check the IP contribs in a minutre. &infin; Who ? &iquest; ? 08:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry, I looked at Serenity and not Serenity (film). I have warned the user to cease and to discuss the edits with the other editors. If they continue, report them on WP:3RR. &infin; Who ? &iquest; ?  08:32, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I think our best bet for getting rid of this fellow is to let him be hoist by his own petard. If he keeps violating WP:3RR, he'll get a longer ban. I reverted his last change; would you care to do the honors this time? —Josiah Rowe 00:11, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Road stubs
All of the following made their way to WP:SFD:


 * Arizona State Route Stub
 * Kentucky State Highway Stub
 * Maryland-State-Highway-Stub
 * Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub
 * Michigan-State-Highway-Stub
 * Missouri-State-Highway-Stub
 * Nevada-State-Highway-Stub
 * New-Hampshire-State-Highway-Stub
 * Nhroute
 * Washington-State-Highway-Stub

--Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I see the "vote" was indeed "gotten out". Would you at least consider voting regularise to the "-stub" ending, even if you're immune to arguments on the "Highway" issue? Alai 17:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it should be singular but it doesn't bug me that much. Hypens make the stub people happy. But I'm with you on the caps though. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Bill King
Thanks for the note on Bill King's age. The AP is certainly good enough for the article, although I hope they didn't get the age from Wikipedia! :-) Best, MCB 23:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

IPod
Thanks for your note - I did confirm that Steve said "260,000 colors", but his presentations have also been known to include errors in the past (including this one, an example being that his presentation stated the new iMacs sport 160 and 250 megabyte hard drives ;)). This could be a typo on Steve's part, or it could be a typo on the web team's part, but I'd give a bit more credence to the official technical specifications myself.  I have submitted this question to Apple's web team, so I hope that they will address this soon.  Thanks again!  Bbatsell 00:38, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Just an update, I asked User:17.213.12.163 for clarification on this, because he appears to work for Apple in the iPod department based on his prior edits and contributions (as well as his IP address). He said that both the nano and the new iPod have 65,536 colors - you can see his response here. Bbatsell 01:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

RE: Serenity and 'systemic' definitions
Hi there! Thanks for your recent engagements regarding Serenity. After posing the question on the relevant pages regarding applicable definitions, they – in fact – do not appear to have much cited and referenced basis (and were made largely by one Wp user); see here and related article histories. If anything, I'm glad that our discussions may result in clarifying definitions and enhancing all of these related articles. Don't get me wrong, though, the current Serenity article reads fine. :) Thoughts?  Thanks again! E Pluribus Anthony 10:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Unfounded personal attacks
In the past I have given you the benefit of the doubt, as you appear to be a young adolescent with a fair amount of interest in the Wikipedia project. This however is nothing more than an unfounded personal attack, and not something to be taken lightly. Don't let it happen again. Silensor 22:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You know you created Abraham Lincon as a direct result of my comment about Abraham Lincol. Don't deny it and then accuse me of slandering you. I'm not the only one who caught you red handed. I tried assuming good faith about the Abraham Lincon item... but your timestamp proves you had no good intent in creating that. And to suggest otherwise is insulting to my and other users intelligence.  And I'm also not a "adolescent". Gateman1997 22:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There you go again. The redirect is valid and was made in good faith.  There are thousands of redirects on Wikipedia, and many if not most of them exist for the purpose of redirecting someone from a common misspelling to the correct article.  How or why you cannot grasp this is beyond me.  Silensor 22:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but for someone to create a redirect and then jump into the middle of a dispute about the same topic and cite said redirect is pretty damn suspect in my book. You may deep down have had good intent, I'm willing to admit that, if you can see how I would suspect you of acting in bad faith.Gateman1997 22:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What I cited were two very common misspellings for two very prominent figures in American history, the redirects you are referring to are Malcom X (367,000 Google hits) and Abraham Lincon (17,300 Google hits). My advice to you is the next time you "suspect" something to keep it to yourself unless you have a damned good reason not to.  Silensor 22:59, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I will do no such thing. And futhermore you're answer is nothing but evasion. I'm more certain then ever you created Abraham Lincon in bad faith. I'll thank you to stop contacting me regarding this issue going forward. Gateman1997 23:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There is no evasion taking place here. Take a walk.  Silensor 23:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Whether it was a valid redirect or not, by citing Abraham Lincon as your (silensor) example here shows very poor judgement. It looks like entrapment to me. If that's not bad faith I don't know what is. You could easily have chosen other older examples to make your point. Also it is a bit melodramtic to say that these comments are a personal attack. David D. (Talk) 23:39, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Creating a highly referenced redirect for a common misspelling of a prominent President of the United States is not entrapment.  Yes, there are thousands of other useful redirects for misspelled words on Wikipedia, but insisting that the creation of a helpful redirect was done with malice or "acting in bad faith" and then going further by requesting that it be deleted runs contrary to WP:AGF.  Silensor 23:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You can't act in obvious bad faith then scream WP:AGF. It doesn't work that way.Gateman1997 00:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Mmm, I never implied that creating the useful redirect was entrapment, those are your words. I said that using that particular example, over the thousands you agree exist, looked like entrapment. I agree that the redirect is useful and it should not be deleted, but that is something for you need to discuss with Gateman. Obviously he does not agree, why not try and persuade him why his argument is flawed?  I thought the user who brought up the example that this is standard practice in library search algorithms was quite compelling.
 * "It's a common practice in many libraries, for example, to include common misspellings in search software. Knowledge is for everyone... not just those who spell every word in the universe correctly." Jacqui  ★
 * Why didn't you try to back up that argument? David D. (Talk) 00:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Schoolwatch Association of Photographers
Hello Gateman. While I understand you do not feel all schools are notable, I am under the impression that you at least believe that some are, for your own personal reasons. The reason I am contacting you today is I am currently in the process of assembling a Schoolwatch photographers organization, and was wondering if you would be interested in joining by capturing schools within your area of Saratoga, California. Would you happen to have access to a digital camera? Bahn Mi 22:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)