User talk:Gedwards1990

MINI/Prodrive
Hi. I noticed that you've recently been making changes to the 2011 World Rally Championship season page, specifically changes to the driver table to include MINI as the team name for the new team running the Countryman. After reverting several of your edits, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to stop doing this as you're clearly not paying attention to the messages on the history page. Although the cars to be entered for 2011 will indeed by MINIs, they will be run by the Prodrive team. Therefore, the team will appear in the table as Prodrive until otherwise stated. Not MINI World Rally Team or MINI-Prodrive. Just Prodrive. I appreciate that you want to add to Wikipedia wherever possible, but unless you have a reference to support your statement that the team name has been changed, I'm afraid your edits will be considered vandalism, reverted on sight and you will be reported. I don't want to have to do that and I wholly welcome your contributions, but there are certain rules that have to be obeyed. So please leave the team as Prodrive for the time being. We'll know about any name changes soon enough. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, my point is that the team will NOT be known as Prodrive, it will be MINI as all the news reports say for example Autosport's news title "MINI confirms 2011 WRC programme" http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85590 now "Prodrive...". This is backed up by looking at the Subaru World Rally Team which too was run by Prodrive but did not feature Prodrive in the name, and M-Sport running Ford's current 'BP For Abu Dhabi World Rally Team'. Therefore the table should say 'MINI' not Prodrive. And for your info, I have not changed it to MINI-Prodrive as you said earlier. Thank You and goodnight!


 * Yes, but you have no evidence. What you are doing is called speculation, and it's against Wikipedia policy. Yes, the team could well be known as MINI World Rally Team, but it could just as easily be known as Purple Monkey Dishwashers. Historical precedents are not good enough: you need to have a source - an article from somewhere like Autosport - that explicitly says "the team will be called this", something that you do not have. MINI have confirmed that they have a WRC program, but for all we know, they involvement ends at making the cars available. If you want to debate this, I'll refer you to the article talk page where you can debate it until your heart's content. Moderator intervention is the next step - I've already asked an admin to keep an eye on the page. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:56, 29 July 2010 (UTC

Where's your proof it will be called Prodrive? Where your source - an article from somewhere like Autosport - that explicitly says "the team will be called this", something that YOU do not have. The source you have provided is more supportive of my edit than of yours so please do refer me to the talk page where i will debate it until my heart's content, and please so take it to the next step of moderator intervention as you will find they agree with me and the Autosport article you so kindly referenced.


 * The very article that I linked to as a reference. The article says that the team will be run by Prodrive. This is sufficient evidence to list the team under the Prodrive name in the title. My source does not confirm your edit in any way. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, I am very busy and cannot be bothered with this anymore although I am glad to see someone else has included Mini in the name so the page is finally half correct. I know I am correct in calling the team Mini, just a shame the page will contain misleading information due to your adjustments until the 2011 season begins at which point my corrections will be confirmed when the team rolls out under the Mini banner. I shall be keeping an eye on the page from time to time to make sure you are not posting any other misleading and incorrect data and I will inform moderators if need be.


 * You may be correct in calling the team MINI, but as per Wikipedia policy, you are wrong. You absolutely must have a source to back up anything you say; you cannot extrapolate or speculate regardless of how "likely" something is because Wikipeia deals in fact. I agree with you - the team will probably be caled MINI, or some derivative thereof, but there are certain rules that must be observed. According to Wikipedia policy, the best name for the team in the article is Prodrive. And that's how it will stay until we know otherwise.


 * PS, please don't use my agreeing with you in principle as a reason to change the page back. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:28, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

haha! unlucky mate =) I have proved it a much as you have proved the team is definately called Prodrive. If you want to bring Wiki rules into it I'm sure your edits will be deemed to have less material behind them than mine, as all the articles on the web relating to this story, including the one you sourced as a reference say Mini join the WRC.  Would you please provide me with a source stating the team is to be called Prodrive to varify your changes or I will consider getting this issue looked at to bring your vandalism to the attention of Wiki moderators.  You stated "Wikipedia deals in fact" you have even agreed with me that it is not fact that the team is to be entered as Prodrive, therefore you have just removed the last little scrap of credibility your edit had, meaning it is in fact now vandalism as you have knowingly replaced correct information on the page with false, misleading entries.


 * No, I agreed with you that it is likely that the team will be entered as MINI. Not that it would. Don't try and get into an argument about semantics here - you won't win, because I'm an English teacher. The original Autosport article that broke the story clearly states that Prodrive will enter the Countryman. In the absence of an official team name, Wikipedia allows Prodrive to be the name because they are the team who will run the cars. Don't try dragging a moderator into this, because I already know they will agree with me; if you check the article talk page, you'll see that consensus is that the Prodrive name should be kept in the article. What I have done does not constitute vandalism, because I know the policy inside out. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:19, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello again! I see you still havent found proof of the team being called Prodrive then. It doesnt matter if your an english teacher or a rubbish collector, its not about winning an arguement with you, its about ensuring Wikipedia only displays true information and as you have no clear cut source to back up your claims you have nothing to say you are more right than me. If you already know a moderator will agree with you, you must either be paying him or have a fantasy that he is as off the mark as you will be proven to be. It would be classed as vandalism as you have knowingly written false information on the page, as for knowing the policy inside out, it looks like you need to get out more.


 * If there is no article that says "The team will be called This", then including Prodrive as the name of the team is acceptable, because the most complete information we have is that they will be running the team. It does not count as vandalism because it is not false. It is known that Prodrive will run the team, and in the absense of a full team name, that fact is good enough to support it. And I'm sure the moderators will appreciate you accusing them of being corrupt. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)


 * As discussed on the article talk page, the name for the team has not been announced. Thus, we use the names of the two organisations involved in the operation: MINI and Prodrive. This is an excellent compromise between those that want MINI and those that want Prodrive. It still says MINI, so I don't see what the problem is. We are not saying that Prodrive will be the name of the team! Using Prodrive as well as MINI informs people that Prodrive are involved. You may ask why we don't put Ford/M-Sport. Well that is because the Ford team has its own name: Ford World Rally Team. MINI does not have a team name yet. And please could you sign your comments using ~ (even on your own talk page) so that I can follow the discussion much better. - mspete  93  12:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Pete finally someone that talks sense and has a brain. <>G-Man!<>
 * Pete just said what I've been saying all along. You just ignored it on principle. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 23:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest Prisonermonkeys, I don't think you explained your views in a very clear way, which is ironic given that you are an English teacher. Maybe that says something. Anyway..... All you ever seem to do is accuse users of vandalism and threaten them, when what I do is put myself in the shoes of the user and understand why they are doing what they are doing. Usually they are not trying to cause trouble, they simply think that they are right and sometimes they need explaining to them what they are doing wrong. That is the case here. Gedwards is not a vandal, he just needs explaining to him what he is doing wrong. - mspete  93  11:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I think Pete has summed it up perfectly, I am just putting what I believe to be the most accurate information which is further strengtened by how Autosport refer to the team in today's article about the signing of Kris Meeke. Also just seen the article discussion page and am glad you agree with me with regards to comparing it to past teams of this nature such as Subaru/Prodive, Ford/M-Sport, and Chevrolet/RML, the list could continue of examples like this to further support my claims. Can I also add Pete, do you think the Citroen Junior Team should be added to the page? I read an article on Autosport the other week talking about Kimi Raikkonen's options and it seems as if the team will definatley be there in 2011, here's a link http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86102. I am aware that the Stobart Ford team should not yet be included though after reading an interview with Matthew Wilson where he says the team are unsure of their plans for 2011 yet. Gedwards1990