User talk:Gelnd

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The Wikipedia tutorial is a good place to start learning about Wikipedia. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome! Dougweller (talk) 16:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Jeffrey Goodman
I've restored the article to the state it was in before you edited it. You more or less destroyed the formatting, left empty sections, and we never sign our edits in articles, although we always sign on talk pages. I also either didn't understand or disagreed with your reasons for deletions. Please start a new section on the talk page with very specific concerns. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 16:35, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Attack?
I would be interested to know why you consider the article about Jeffrey Goodman to be an attack. It looks quite well balanced and well referenced to me. If you can supply references that comply with WP:RS to support your claim, I will reconsider my removal of your speedy deletion request. Please to not add it again without evidence, and also please to not remove sourced material from the article, and do not restructure or reformat it without consensus reached on the article's talk page. Peridon (talk) 17:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The stuff on your user page needs to go, signed, at Talk:Jeffrey Goodman. Please never leave spaces before the start of a sentence. Sources are not expected to be neutral, see WP:NPOV, and Williams is certainly qualified. You probably should read WP:RS also before adding to the article talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 18:03, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Reply
Please see Talk:Jeffrey Goodman. I've copied your message to me on to that page (and removed the phone number). I've tagged the article for a possible lack of accuracy, and made an appeal on the talk page for someone who has access to the printed material to check things out, which I am unable to do. If you feel that this is not enough, feel free to take the article to AfD where it will be open for discussion. Peridon (talk) 18:38, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Jeffrey Goodman - More about the problems with the BLP article on Jeffrey Goodman
TALK Gelnd (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2011 (UTC) More about Problems with the BLP article on Jeffrey Goodman: Part 1 (New information to be added to the Gelnd (talk) 18:11, 1 April 2011 posting.) Passage 1 under the heading Flagstaff Excavation in the 4/2/11 article: Through "psychic clues" he predicted that an excavation there would find "carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing" as well as an underground tunnel system, domesticated horses and other artifacts, none of which were actually found at the site. [3] The word “he” as used above is a reference to Jeffrey Goodman, but Goodman did not make these predictions about scrolls and wooden ankhs. This is what is actually written in Psychic Archaeology: “Aron’s readings on the hypothetical full-scale excavation said that we would find evidence of other sophisticated practices as well – carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather, and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing. He even cited a mysterious underground tunnel system.”. In Psychic Archaeology Goodman writes: “I had the predictions notarized and distributed copies of them to friends and enemies alike. Following the advice of my psychology professor, I sought an independent control on the predictions.” The illustration insert of the book that follows p. 112 shows this list of predictions made for the test shaft (which do not mention scrolls and wooden ankhs)  and the predictions made by two archeology professors who served as a control. . To add to the article under the heading - Flagstaff Excavation: Sociologist Laile Bartlett, Ph.D. in Psi Trek tells how about fifty archeologists have come to inspect the stone tools Goodman found at Flagstaff and she writes: Though not all are convinced, those I consulted took the Goodman find seriously. Richard MacNeish of the Peabody Foundation for Archaeology said, “I want to know more about the context in which the specimens are found: those chipped objects do look man made.” The plot continues. In 1979, Alan Bryan of the University of Alberta brought his own team to the site, which in 3 weeks of digging turned up another tantalizing piece, a stone some believe was intentionally engraved by humans. .

Joseph K. Long, Ph.D., an anthropologist at the University of New Hampshire wrote in Extrasensory Ecology: Parapsychology and Anthropology that: ”As predicted, 1) crude stone tools from four to 20 feet were found, 2) a geologic disconformity occurred at the 15 foot level, and 3) a minimum date of 20,000 years . . .” was supported by radiocarbon dating of approximately 23,000 B.C., thus making it one of the oldest fully documented sites in America. Excavations have now revealed a probable date of around 100,000 B.C. at 21 feet, and a well-cut blade has recently been taken at the 28-foot level. Considering the millions of cubic yards of earth excavated for cities, dams, roads, and the research for America’s “oldest man” in the past 30 years, this event seems of high importance.  Regardless of how one states it, the odds against the predictions’ being accurate about the location of the site alone were very high.  In sum, the psychic hypothesis would seem to be correct. . Additional commentary from Dr. Long that refers to Goodman’s work, which in part could also be added to the article under the heading - Flagstaff Excavation as added material from a reliable resource: I am informed that archeological dowsing is commonly used in Europe, without people’s raising the question of the ”source” of the paragnostic information or without mention of the dowsing in published site reports. But it is exceedingly rare in America, and this rather unusual case suggests that, regardless of whether this is to be explained as a type of “sifting telepathy” (the only instructions given were to find a very ancient site in the Southwest, which includes a great many square miles to read – “sift through” – clairvoyantly), or as communication with the dead, it would seem to present us with a technique which no budget-oriented excavator could afford to pass up. This does not represent a practice unique to Goodman and Emerson. Weiant (1960: 1-8) [Weiant, C. 1960, Parapsychology and anthropology. XXIII (15): 1-4. (From a presentation at American Anthropological Association annual meeting, Mexico City, 1959.)] utilized it in George Vaillant’s work for the National Geographic-Smithsonian excavation of Tres Zapotes in Mexico. It is perhaps of passing interest to note that Dr. Weiant presented this material under the title “Parapsychology and Anthropology” at the annual meeting of the American Anthropological Association in Mexico City in 1959. It was only after I organized the Association symposium by the same title for Mexico City in 1974 that his coincidence was discovered. . Long also wrote: Whatever may come from psychic archeology, it is likely eventually to have two profound results: (1) an expansion of our understanding of paranormal phenomena which have previously not been observable by double-blind experimentation, and (2) an expansion of our knowledge about the more socially relevant dynamics present at archeological sites at the times when they are originally occupied. . Long also wrote: Certain predictions that were made remain untested because of the incomplete excavation of the site. These include the presence of human biological material, and the use of specific domesticated vegetal material. It should be noted that the potential presence of human skeletal material was the rationale for picking this particular ten-foot-square excavation zone over all others. . Long also wrote: Perhaps the most significant element to observe in the archeological psi work, aside from the potential for inexpensively determining the central locations of undiscovered or excavated sites, is the fact that much of the psychic archeology automatically sets up double-blind psi experiments. .

Another resource to support what Goodman predicted and found is a paper of his that appears in  Extrasensory Ecology: Parapsychology and Anthropology by Joseph K. Long, Ph.D. This paper was framed by the “Editor’s Comments” and the “Editor’s Comments” which in part are quoted above. The title of the paper is “Psychic Archeology: Methodology and Empirical Evidence from Flagstaff, Arizona.” In this paper Goodman wrote: In the spring of 1973, after receiving the permit, but before beginning the actual dig, Aron was asked for additional and even more specific predictions for the planned ten-foot square shaft, to be dug 23 feet in depth. This new information was intended to clarify and support the material already received from him in the earlier 1971 tapes. Like the first series, this second set of tapes dealt with archeological, chronological, and geological details of the site and the surrounding area (Table 1). As a control, the predictions of several archeology professors from another institution, all of whom were familiar with the area, were recorded. They vouchsafed that this was the first known deep subsurface excavation in the area, and stated that they felt the location of artifacts as predicted by Aron was very unlikely. .

Another reliable source that supports what Goodman found at Flagstaff appears in Opening the Inner Eye: Explorations on the Practical Application of Intuition in Daily Life and Work by William H. Kautz (Sc.D., M.I.T.) a former Staff Scientist at SRI International. Dr. Kautz wrote: Jeffrey Goodman, working with intuitive Aron Abrahamsen [AA], was directed to a specific remote piece of land near Flagstaff, Arizona and told what he would find if he dug there. Following this counsel, Goodman subsequently excavated at various levels a large number of artifacts dating back 30,000 years, just as Abrahamsen had predicted.14 (Goodman, Jeffrey, Psychic Archeology, G.P. Putnam, 1977). .

Passage 11- A new passage that appears under the heading -- American Genesis in the 4/2/11 article has a misquote and says: He also attributes to these early humans many discoveries considered to be much later, from pottery to insulin to "the applied understanding of the physics behind Einstein's gravity waves".[2] quoted in Feder, Kenneth L. Encylopedia of Dubious Archaeology: From Atlantis to the Walam Olum, Greenwood, 2010, ISBN: 978-0313379185 pp.7-8 From the source quoted in Wikipedia: Goodman continues in American Genesis to make claims concerning the great precocity of these first true human beings. Apparently we can credit the ancient Americans with everything from the invention of pottery and the discovery of insulin to the development of birth control pills, and rather incoherently, to me at least, “the applied understanding of the physics behind Einstein’s gravity waves.” (178). Feder, Kenneth L. Encylopedia of Dubious Archaeology: From Atlantis to the Walam Olum, Greenwood, 2010, pp 8-9.

This is a misquote, because Goodman did not write the words put in quotation marks. This is what Goodman wrote in American Genesis about Einstein and “gravity waves”: Albert Einstein was eager to see gravity waves harnessed as an unlimited power supply. He felt that these gravity waves could be tapped at certain locations along the earth’s surface; perhaps the Indian holy places were also associated with these locations. .

Also this is what Goodman wrote in American Genesis about ‘pottery”: But the new perspectives on the Paleo-Indians suggest that a re-analysis of a forgotten paper by Max Uhle, the father of Peruvian archaeology, is in order. Given (in German) in 1928 at the Twenty-Third International Congress of the Americas, Uhle’s paper reported on the finding of an extinct mastodon associated with pottery. (4) (Carter, G. F. “Uhle’s Mastodon.” Anthropological Journal, 1968, p. 21.  [Uhle’s paper at the Twenty-Third International Congress of America was published in German by the Science Press, Lancaster, PA. in 1928.”]). Also this is what Goodman wrote in American Genesis about “birth control pills”: We even owe a debt to the Indians for the birth control pill. In his book American Indian Medicine Dr. Vogel writes that “Indian fertility drugs helped to call attention to the possibilities and played a role in the research leading to recent discoveries in the field.” [21 Vogel, V.J. American Indian Medicine, University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, ISBN: 69-10626, 1977, p.244.] At the beginning of the nineteenth century, the great naturalist Alexander von Humboldt said that the leading cause of depopulation of mission Indians on the Orinoco was “the guilty practice of preventing pregnancy by the use of deleterious herbs.”  [22 Vogel, op.cit. p. 240] Many Indian groups believed that sterility could be artificially induced by taking certain substances. Most of these substances have proven worthless, but not all. One Indian oral contraceptive, stoneseed (Lithospermum ruderale), taken by the Nevada Shoshones, proved surprising when clinically tested. Experimental work showed that mice fed with an extract of this plant had their normal estrous cycle abolished, and the number of estrous smears decreased. Subsequent work with rabbits showed that stoneseed apparently inhibits the actions of gonadotrophins in the ovary. In 1965, researchers at Indiana University tested chickens and mice with this substance finding that it had “powerful inhibitory effects. [23 Vogel, op.cit. p. 245]. . Also this is what Goodman wrote in American Genesis about “insulin”: Long-standing ethnic arrogance held back many researchers, but others studied some of the Indian drugs and when they found them to be effective, had the active agents in these plants chemically synthesized. For example, Dr. Frederick Banting, the discoverer of insulin, credited Indian healers with the “pharmaceutical spadework” which led to the development of this elixir for diabetics. [10 Vogel, op.cit. p.4.] The Indians of British Columbia are reported to have combated diabetes with an infusion of the root of a spiny, prickly shrub called devil’s club. Experiments on rabbits showed that devil’s club reduced the blood sugar substantially without toxic effects, proving it effective in the prevention and treatment of diabetes. [11 Vogel, op.cit. p.198.].

To add to the article (re: passage 6) under the top most heading –Jeffrey Goodman: John White in Pole Shift tells how while working with astronaut Edgar Mitchell at the Institute of Noetic Sciences he was contacted by a graduate student named Jeffrey Goodman and then he writes “(He has since earned his Ph.D. in anthropology).”. An article in New Realities magazine said: Dr. Goodman is the author of Psychic Archaeology and director of Archaeological Research Associates, Inc., of Tucson, Arizona. He holds degrees in anthropology, engineering, business, and archaeology from the Colorado School of Mines, the Columbia University School of Business, and the University of Arizona, and California Western University. . Time Magazine said that Goodman holds a doctorate in anthropology, *, and American Genesis tells of his accreditation by the Society of Professional Archeologists. Dr. David Zink, a professor at Lamar University and an elected Fellow of the Explorer’s Club of New York in The Ancient Stones Speak wrote: The pioneers in this field are surely Dr. J. Norman Emerson of the University of Toronto and the archaeologist Dr. Jeffrey D. Goodman. Working at a site near Flagstaff, Arizona, between 1971 and 1973, Goodman used psychic information to help him locate an area for excavation. His psychic directed him to a spot described by experienced archaeologists as unlikely to yield any artifacts. The outcome was the location of the first known deep excavation in the area. (p. XI).

A review of his book The Comets of God in ForeWord Reviews says, “He holds a geological engineering degree from the Colorado School of Mines, a M.A. in anthropology from the University of Arizona, and a Ph.D. in anthropology from California Coast University. He also earned a M.B.A. from Columbia University Graduate School of Business.” *. The book The Comets of God gives more details about his background: “Jeffrey Goodman received a professional degree in Geological Engineering from Colorado School of Mines, a MA in anthropology from the University of Arizona, a MBA from Columbia University Graduate School of Business, and a Ph.D. in anthropology from California Coast University. He was accredited by the former Society of Professional Archeologists from 1978 to 1987”. His website (acceptable WP: SPS) and blog also give details about his background * [http:// www.thecometsofgod.com Jeffrey Goodman's home website] and   * [http:// www.newscientificevidenceforgod.com  Jeffrey Goodman’s blog website]. This addition needs to be edited to eliminate repetition.

To add to the article under the heading - Comets: Though Christian fundamentalists may recoil from scientific exploration of what they believe to be unfathomable, sacred words, some experts have presented convincing theories for reinterpretation of biblical occurrences and predictions. Jeffrey Goodman, along with other scientists who preceded him, proposes that comets made an appearance in the Old Testament, one of which caused the Great Flood, and states that cometary activity will change the Earth throughout a protracted, devastating bombardment. Based on his definition of dire prophesy in the New Testament Book of Revelations, he has laid out a blow-by-blow description of what he anticipates will end the world that presently exists. His book addresses pertinent information lost in bad translations of original Hebrew manuscripts, clarifying key words, and demonstrating the likelihood that his astronomical explanations make more sense than other potential causes such as nuclear war… Though Goodman’s work is scientific, his detailed doomsday scenarios place the book into religion as well, since he is attempting to define events that have not occurred … His analysis of the Book of Revelations has an astronomical-Christian slant focused on proving that biblical writings can forecast our future, a concept that many scientists will reject. *.

To add to the article under the heading - Native First People Stone: It has been reported that two separate engraved stones were found at Goodman’s excavation site in Flagstaff, the “Flagstaff Stone” and a so-called “Native First People Stone.” Nowhere in Goodman’s writings does he mention the discovery of a second engraved stone. In American Genesis Goodman writes: "In the summer of 1979, Bryan and his wife Dr. Ruth Gruhn who is also an archeologist at the University of Alberta, and two of their graduate students came to Flagstaff to excavate for three weeks." The late Dr. Alan Bryan was the founder of the Anthropology Department at the University of Alberta and a celebrated Pleistocene archeologist. It was one of his students who excavated the Flagstaff Stone several days before Goodman came up from Tucson to close the site.

To add to the article under the heading – American Genesis: A review of American Genesis in Time Magazine said that Goodman: …advances his thesis with layman's language and expert's knowledge. Citing archaeological discoveries (both his own and those of others), he offers evidence that toolmaking men resided in the Americas more than 38,000 years ago, points out similarities between the shamanistic culture of the Cro-Magnons and that of the American Indians and provides convincing arguments that the prehistoric migration could just as easily have gone from the Americas as come to them. Few of Goodman's colleagues will subscribe to his theory; many still find his evidence incomplete. Fewer still will be able simply to dismiss it. . * In a review of American Genesis the Chicago Sun Times praised American Genesis and said: This is a fascinating book, extremely well-written and well-organized. It is highly informative and entertaining, and contains what is probably the most comprehensive, up-to-date report on the most recent excavations in North and South America. .

A review of American Genesis in Publisher’s Weekly said: There has been an upheaval in American archeology: within the last decade, dates for modern humankind in America have been pushed back to 30,000 years, 50,000 years and more: it is conceivable that Homo sapiens sapiens originated here. . . The old theory that humans came to America across the Bering land bridge (Beringia) 12,000 years ago left many questions about genetic characteristics, language, climate and ultimate dispersal. Furthermore, it did not fit creation myths of the Indians. In 1967, Louis Leakey confirmed the great antiquity of certain artifacts; though his opinion was not fully accepted at the time, it has since been validated. One sticking point was tools – a freak of nature or handmade? A new field of study, edge wear analysis, has proved they were made by humans. Goodman describes key sites and new methods of dating: he examines the Hopi creation story in the light of current archeological findings. This is an important book that will interest all readers who are curious about our origins. .

Passage 7 under the heading --Jeffrey Goodman in the 4/2/11 article: His influences include Edgar Cayce, known for his strong Atlantis channeling, and Stephan Schwartz. [1]

This seems to be a poorly sourced statement and it seems to involve WP: NOR. As pointed out in “passage 7” of the April 1 Talk page, on pages 89-90 of PSYCHIC ARCHEOLOGY Goodman tells how a series of dreams he had about making an important archeological discovery is what influenced him to take on psychic archeology. . Sociologist Laile Bartlett, Ph.D. in Psi Trek who says that she spent a weekend talking to Goodman and going over all of the Flagstaff materials writes: Reflecting on these dreams, so different in emotional content from any he’d had before, Goodman felt strongly that, somehow, he was being given a message. . And in the Introduction to Psychic Archeology Goodman credits Dr. Louis Leakey with influencing him to try to find an early man site in the Americas. In Psychic Archeology Goodman writes: Where did the first men in North and South America live, I wondered, and where did they come from? At the time, I wanted to discover an entirely new site that would shed light on this perplexing issue. I felt that the famed Dr. Louis Leakey was right when he guessed of much, much earlier dates for the first appearance of man in the Americas. . As far as Stephen Schwartz being an influence on Goodman, Schwartz began his work on psychic archeology long after Goodman began the Flagstaff excavation and there has been litigation between the two and speculations should be avoided. Sociologist Laile Bartlett, Ph.D. in Psi Trek writes: These books began as a collaborative endeavor, then branched apart to produce two quite different reports. At the heart of Goodman’s account is his own experience with a Psi-directed archaeological dig near Flagstaff, Arizona. . Gelnd (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Gelnd (talk) 02:57, 13 April 2011 (UTC) Changes to 07:30, 9 April Dougweller

Under the heading of Jeffrey Goodman:Added the sentence “His more recent work has been in Biblical archeology.” This sentence is a restoration of a sentence that was in 3:54, 2 April 2011 Dougwller. This sentence is needed for balance. A book review in ForeWord Reviews says, “An archeologist and a geologist, Dr. Goodman has devoted over twenty years to the study of the bible. *.

Under the heading Flagstaff Excavation:  Removed a portion of the inaccurate sentence which the 3:54, 2 April 2011 Dougweller attributed to Williams, and put in the exact words used by Williams. This 3:54 2, April quote says: He stated that he had found what he considered were the most important artifacts in human history. These were known as the "Flagstaff Stone" and the "Native First People Stone." Aside from these artifacts were pieces of charcoal, and stone tools; including choppers and scrapers. [1] Williams actually wrote: The “Flagstaff stone” is thought to be approximately one hundred thousand years old and possibly “one of the most important artifacts ever found in the whole word” says Goodman, citing in the last instance Alexander Marshack of Harvard’s Peabody Museum. 3 [Goodman 1981:214.] (pp. 301 &354) Williams, Stephen. "Psychic Archaeology." Fantastic Archaeology: the Wild Side of North American Prehistory. The reference to a Native First People Stone has been dropped just as the subhead Native First People Stone was dropped in 19:41, 8 April Dougweller. There is no reference for a Native First People Stone in any of Goodman’s writings. Excavation at Flagstaff took place in 1973, 1975, 1977, and 1979. The Flagstaff Stone was found in 1979 when Dr. Alan Bryan of the University of Alberta and his team conducted excavations at the site. In both Bryan’s and Goodman’s field reports to the Forest Service the only engraved stone that is referenced is the Flagstaff Stone. Details about the Flagstaff stone were given by Goodman in a research report at the Southwest General Session at the Forty Fifth Annual Meeting of the Society for American Archaeology on May 3, 1980. The report was titled: “A Paleo-Indian Engraved Stone from Flagstaff, Arizona.”  References by the Williams and others in earlier versions of this BLP article to a “Native First People Stone” show that they are confused about what was found at the excavation. Others statements by these sources in the article show that they are also confused about the project’s research design in regard to using psychics in archeology, which is not unlike the police sometimes using psychics to help solve cases. Before the Flagstaff dig was begun specific predictions were made and notarized for what a 10 foot square, 23 foot deep shaft that was to be dug would encounter. The predictions of two archeologists were used as a control. They predicted that only some artifacts might be found in the first 4 feet, but after that nothing would be found or that we would hit bedrock. The controls added that finding evidence of man earlier than 15,000 B.C. was doubly impossible.

'''A change that I would like permission to make. Under the heading Flagstaff Excavation: ''' I would like to remove this inaccurate sentence that uses Kenneth Feder as a source: Through "psychic clues" he predicted that an excavation there would find "carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing" as well as an underground tunnel system, domesticated horses and other artifacts, none of which were actually found at the site.[2] This is what Kenneth Feder actually wrote which says that Goodman’s psychic not Goodman made these predictions: Goodman’s psychic predicted that excavators would find the following at the “site”: “carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather, and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing” (1981:128). . . None of the predicted items was, in fact, discovered at the site. Feder, Kenneth L. (6th edition (Feb 2008)). Frauds, Myths and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology. 978-0077274030. p. 293. This is what Goodman actually wrote about the psychic’s predictions about a hypothetical full-scale excavation, where Goodman is merely reporting what was said to him, but did not subscribe to. “Aron’s (one of the psychics discussed in the book) readings on the hypothetical full-scale excavation said that we would find evidence of other sophisticated practices as well – carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather, and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing. He even cited a mysterious underground tunnel system.”. Goodman writes about how the psychics he spoke with told him a variety of things. But the only the specific predictions made for a 10 foot square 23 foot deep test shaft were notarized and tested. The sentence to be removed is not only inaccurate but it is a misrepresentation of what actually took place took place.

I would like to add these sentences to replace the inaccurate sentence and accurately conclude the section on the Flagstaff Stone:Through "psychic clues" he predicted that the excavation of a 10 foot wide test pit there would find stone tools from 4 to 20 feet, a minimum date of 20,000 years at the 15 foot level, a geological disconformity at the 15 foot level, a date of 100,000 years at 20 feet, and some human and animal skeletal material at the 20 foot plus level. As predicted, except for the human skeletal material, all of these things were found. . In the 1979 dig season Dr. Alan Bryan of the University of Alberta and his team excavated at the site, and they found an engraved stone at 23 feet that is called the “Flagstaff Stone.” The “Flagstaff Stone” is thought to be approximately one hundred thousand years old and possibly “one of the most important artifacts ever found in the whole word” says Goodman, citing in the last instance Alexander Marshack of Harvard’s Peabody Museum. 3 [Goodman 1981:214.] (pp. 301 &354) Williams, Stephen. "Psychic Archaeology." Fantastic Archaeology: the Wild Side of North American Prehistory. ~

Jeffrey Goodman  Change to 5:38, 13 April Smack Bot
Change to 5:38, 13 April Smack Bot ~ Removed this inaccurate sentence that uses Kenneth Feder as a source: Through "psychic clues" he predicted that an excavation there would find "carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing" as well as an underground tunnel system, domesticated horses and other artifacts, none of which were actually found at the site.[2] This is what Kenneth Feder actually wrote which says that Goodman’s psychic not Goodman made these predictions: Goodman’s psychic predicted that excavators would find the following at the “site”: “carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather, and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing” (1981:128). . . None of the predicted items was, in fact, discovered at the site. Feder, Kenneth L. (6th edition (Feb 2008)). Frauds, Myths and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology. 978-0077274030. p. 293. This is what Goodman actually wrote about the psychic’s predictions about a hypothetical full-scale excavation, where Goodman is merely reporting what was said to him, but did not subscribe to. Aron’s (one of the psychics discussed in the book) readings on the hypothetical full-scale excavation said that we would find evidence of other sophisticated practices as well – carvings, paintings, wooden ankhs, cured leather, and parchment scrolls with hieroglyphiclike writing. He even cited a mysterious underground tunnel system. . The sentence removed was not only inaccurate but it is a misrepresentation of what actually was being tested and what was found. Goodman in “Psychic Archeology” writes about how the psychics he spoke with told him a variety of things. But the only the specific predictions made for a 10 foot square 23 foot deep test shaft were notarized and tested. The sentences that have been added tell what actually was tested and what was found. Joseph K. Long, Ph.D., an anthropologist at the University of New Hampshire wrote in Extrasensory Ecology: Parapsychology and Anthropology that: “As predicted, 1) crude stone tools from four to 20 feet were found, 2) a geologic disconformity occurred at the 15 foot level, and 3) a minimum date of 20,000 years . . .” was supported by radiocarbon dating of approximately 23,000 B.C., thus making it one of the oldest fully documented sites in America. Excavations have now revealed a probable date of around 100,000 B.C. at 21 feet, and a well-cut blade has recently been taken at the 28-foot level. Considering the millions of cubic yards of earth excavated for cities, dams, roads, and the research for America’s “oldest man” in the past 30 years, this event seems of high importance.  Regardless of how one states it, the odds against the predictions’ being accurate about the location of the site alone were very high. In sum, the psychic hypothesis would seem to be correct. . Another reliable source that supports what Goodman found at Flagstaff appears in Opening the Inner Eye: Explorations on the Practical Application of Intuition in Daily Life and Work by William H. Kautz (Sc.D., M.I.T.) a former Staff Scientist at SRI International. Dr. Kautz wrote: Jeffrey Goodman, working with intuitive Aron Abrahamsen [AA], was directed to a specific remote piece of land near Flagstaff, Arizona and told what he would find if he dug there. Following this counsel, Goodman subsequently excavated at various levels a large number of artifacts dating back 30,000 years, just as Abrahamsen had predicted.14 (Goodman, Jeffrey, Psychic Archeology, G.P. Putnam, 1977). . Sociologist Laile Bartlett, Ph.D. in Psi Trek tells how about fifty archeologists have come to inspect the stone tools Goodman found at Flagstaff and she writes: Though not all are convinced, those I consulted took the Goodman find seriously. Richard MacNeish of the Peabody Foundation for Archaeology said, “I want to know more about the context in which the specimens are found: those chipped objects do look man made.” The plot continues. In 1979, Alan Bryan of the University of Alberta brought his own team to the site, which in 3 weeks of digging turned up another tantalizing piece, a stone some believe was intentionally engraved by humans. . Gelnd (talk) 22:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Jeffrey Goodman re: comets
April 22, 2011

Goodman does not use Christian sources, other than me trying to say how some passages of scripture have been interpreted by others. In the book he is highly critical of Christian sources, pointing out how they know very little about archeology (esp. the Sumerians), geology and astronomy. Goodman’s sources are predominantly leading scholars from the fields of archeology, geology, and astronomy. For example, he repeatedly refers to the work of geoscientist John Lewis, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Planetary Science Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona. Lewis is recognized as one of the world's leading experts on cosmic impact. His book Comet and Asteroid Impacts: Quantitative Modeling of Hazards in a Populated Earth is a benchmark for the field. In the index there are 18 references to Lewis’s work. There is also the British astronomer and comet science expert Victor Clube (27 index refs.), and a number of British and Australian astronomers. In geology one of his main sources is Dallas Abbott of Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Observatory (oceanography/geophysics) and the Holocene Impact Working Group. If you look at the bibliography you will see that the books, periodicals, specialized publications, and websites there are predominately scientific sources.

Jeffrey Goodman re: comets
Gelnd (talk) 22:58, 22 April 2011 (UTC)April 22, 2011

Goodman does not use Christian sources, other than me trying to say how some passages of scripture have been interpreted by others. In the book he is highly critical of Christian sources, pointing out how they know very little about archeology (esp. the Sumerians), geology and astronomy. Goodman’s sources are predominantly leading scholars from the fields of archeology, geology, and astronomy. For example, he repeatedly refers to the work of geoscientist John Lewis, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Planetary Science Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona. Lewis is recognized as one of the world's leading experts on cosmic impact. His book Comet and Asteroid Impacts: Quantitative Modeling of Hazards in a Populated Earth is a benchmark for the field. In the index there are 18 references to Lewis’s work. There is also the British astronomer and comet science expert Victor Clube (27 index refs.), and a number of British and Australian astronomers. In geology one of his main sources is Dallas Abbott of Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Observatory (oceanography/geophysics) and the Holocene Impact Working Group. If you look at the bibliography you will see that the books, periodicals, specialized publications, and websites there are predominately scientific sources.

American Genesis
Hi, I am not sure if you are Jeffrey Goodman himself or not, you seem to know alot about his work. I have been interested in the book of his American Genesis for quite some time, about man originating in North America, i would like to know does Goodman still believe in this theory? If so, would he write a sequel to the book with modern day evidence to support the theory? Please write me a reply, either here or on my talk page. Thank you. Liveintheforests (talk) 21:40, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Gelnd (talk) 21:54, 25 April 2011 (UTC) Re: experience as a geologist: Los Angeles Times Staff Writer in a story “Unorthodox Scientist- Going Out on a Limb on the Origins of Man” (View, Part V, pp. 1-2, February 23, 1981) wrote “Goodman…selected oil exploration as an early career.” Goodman worked for Standard Oil of New Jersey from 1966 to 1969 and the Stratigraphic Oil Company out of Denver from 1969 to 1971. Goodman’s degree in geological engineering is a Professional Degree from the Colorado School of Mines that required significant field work, a dissertation and 166 credit hours. Re: the “proverbial” Garden of Eden The San Diego Union quotes Goodman as saying that “The proverbial Garden of Eden may have been North America in Southern California.” The key word here is “proverbial” as in a figurative Garden as opposed to a literal Garden. . Re: Goodman being an archeologist and not just a writer:  He has been accredited by the Society of Professional Archeologists. He has conducted research and excavations at the Flagstaff, Arizona in 1973, 1975, 1977, and 1979. This entailed the excavation of a 10 foot square that reached a depth of 35 feet with a tunnel that went back 20 feet at this depth. Many archeology students participated. Over 50 archeologists and geologists have visited the site. Beyond excavation, Goodman supervised pollen studies, magnetic orientation studies, petrographic studies, geologic stratigraphy section mapping, paleosol analysis, sample collection for radiocarbon dating, use wear studies on the lithics, and a comprehensive study of all of the early man evidence found in North and South America. Dr. Paul S. Martin, Professor and Chief Scientist, Laboratory of Paleoenvironmental Studies, Department of Geosciences, University of Arizona visited the site and wrote the Forward to Goodman’s Psychic Archaeology. Martin wrote: “At Flagstaff, I was impressed with Jeff’s field technique, willing to believe his geological-age interpretation…” In 1979 Dr. Alan Bryan and others from the University of Alberta dug at the site. Field reports were filled with the Forest Service who had jurisdiction over the site. Scientific papers have been presented at American Anthropological Association and Society of American Archeology meetings. The Flagstaff stone has been studied by three separate petrographers and a number of experts in Paleolithic art who have written up their assessments in. To understand the engraved lines lines on the stone Goodman has done computer analysis and consulted with mathematicians and statisticians. A literature search has resulted in the finding of a “sister stone” with the same set of unique angles and mathematically important line proportions. Goodman has also been able to relate the pattern on the engraving to a number of important things from the ancient world. A manuscript about these findings has been written and will soon be published.

Goodman does independent archeological research and his books are based on this research. His knowledge of geology and ancient Near Eastern texts and archeology let him make improved translations of Biblical texts that deal with catastrophe. Re: his book The Comets of God ForeWord Reviews wrote: “His book addresses pertinent information lost in bad translations of original Hebrew manuscripts, clarifying key words, and demonstrating the likelihood that his astronomical explanations make more sense than other potential causes such as nuclear war.” *.

While Goodman no longer advocates psychic archeology, Dr. Joseph Long wrote:“Whatever may come from psychic archeology, it is likely eventually to have two profound results: (1)  an expansion of our understanding of paranormal phenomena which have previously not been observable by double-blind experimentation…”.

Goodman’s American Genesis included a comprehensive look at all of the early man evidence found in North and South America and called for much earlier dates for man in the Americas. And there was a chapter about Sinking the Bering Bridge. . In Wikipedia please see the article “Clovis culture” and the subsection Evidence of human habitation before Clovis Clovis cultureThis subsection lists a number of possible pre- Clovis sites.

In The Genesis Mystery Goodman called for a Multiregional origin of modern humans with modern man going back 250,000 years. In Wikipedia please see Archaic Homo sapiens • Anatomically modern humans (H. s. idaltu • H. s. sapiens) for new discoveries that are pushing the dates for modern man back. In The Genesis Mystery there is also a chapter called “More Serious Problems” with a subhead called the “Coexistence Of Different Species” that begins on page 158. Goodman explained how this speaks against “the unilinear theory of human evolution.” In an August 20/August 27, 2007 (p.15) article by science writer Sharon Begley in Newsweek called “Evolution-Branches on the Tree” she writes: “The presence of numerous Homo species, whoever they were, would still mean many human ancestors living simultaneously. That leads to the real puzzle. If throughout human evolution several species of ancestors lived at the same time, why is Homo sapiens the one and only species of human on the planet today?”

Goodman also said that our models of evolution contained sampling errors and that new species were yet to be found. Well today we have the Denisova hominin from Denosova Cave in Altai, Russia, an unknown species of genus of Homo whose DNA was previously unknown; and the so-called little people or “hobbits,” H. floresiensis from the island of Flores in Indonesia; and several  pre- modern individuals from Bilzingliben Germany found  with a possible engraving. The Wikipedia article on Bilzingsleben (Paleolithic site) says: “One bone fragment, an elephant tibia, has two groups of 7 and 14 incised parallel lines and might represent an early example of art. The regular spacing of the incisions, their subequal lengths and V-like cross-sections suggest they were created at the same time, with a single stone tool. The tibia dates to between 350,000 and 400,000 years ago.[1] The interpretation as an early calendar is unlikely.”

Goodman in The Genesis Mystery (pages 230-260) also drew a comparison between the shamanic buffalo hunting culture of the Sioux and other Plains Indians and the apparent shamanic culture of Cro-Magnon man. For example, a cave painting found in France depicts a dancing shaman wearing a buffalo robe and headdress, and depictions of different types of finger amputation from a cave in the French Pyrenees brings to mind similar amputations practiced by the historic Plains Indians of America. In this section of the book Goodman who has studied shamanism points out many other aspects from Upper Paleolithic art and material culture that make it clear that shamanism was being practiced. Interestingly, a Wikipedia article called the Solutrean theory first proposed in 1998 calls for people from the Upper Paleolithic Solutrean culture of Spain and France,  having travelled by boat across the Atlantic Ocean to America and influencing the Clovis culture of the Paleo-Indians based on the similarity of the lithics (bifacial, percussion and pressure-flaked points) of the two cultures. Wikipedia says “One major challenge to the hypothesis involves the apparent lack of cultural or artistic practices being passed on from Solutrean culture to Clovis culture, for instance the style of Solutrean artwork found at Altamira in Spain and Lascaux in France.” The Genesis Mystery seems to offer some help in establishing a cultural connection between the two cultures, but Goodman would have the Paleo-Indians bringing this culture to the Solutreans during the Sangamon interglacial;  rather than the Solutrean’s bringing this culture to the Paleo-Indians via a boat ride from east to west 17,500 years ago.

Goodman has done a detailed analysis of the layout of the ancient Mexican site of Chichen Itza. He has discovered that the site and some of the buildings, such as the wall cuts at the Caracol, conform to a geometrical pattern with a unique set of angles and mathematically important line proportions. A report on this is contained in a manuscript about ancient mathematics that will soon be published.

Goodman has done a photographic study of two skulls found in the Boundary Waters area of Minnesota in 1968. These skulls have brow ridges, low foreheads, with thin skull walls, and they appear archaic. Some archeologists have associated them with an early type of man or even Neanderthals, while others have said that they are inbreed. Goodman photographed them together with casts of important hominid skulls from around the world that lived before the appearance of fully modern man. New data is being sought.

Multiregional origin of modern humans
Hi Gelnd, i just read your message on my page and the above section on American Genesis and the new stuff you put on the Goodman article. All i have to say is am really looking forward to Goodman's new book, and i support his theory of multigenesis myself - infact this idea of his has alot of evidence for, if you happen to be in contact with Goodman tell him he may want to read the book Forbidden archeology by Michael Cremo, it's a book which has evidence in it for man existing in America (and all round the world) in extreme antiquity. Sadly this evidence is ignored by the mainstream materialistic scientists and supressed. By the way also tell Goodman theres another author who believes man first arose in North America his name is Vine Deloria, Jr. he wrote the book Red earth white lies, im sure Goodman already knows about him. Another interesting book i recently read was Out of Antartica by Robert Argod, he concludes in the book the polynesians did not come from america or asia, but they originated from the antartica. Edgar Cayce the famous psychic also said there were more than one Garden of Eden, and there was many of them. Interesting stuff. Keep me updated. I will try and get my email to you. Not sure if i am aloud to post it on here, i will find out. Liveintheforests (talk) 23:57, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

April 2011
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I've noticed that you have been adding your signature to some of your edits to articles. This is a common mistake to make and has probably already been corrected. There is no need to sign your edits to article content, as the article's edit history serves the function of attributing contributions, so you only need to use your signature to make discussions more readable, such as on article talk pages or project pages such as the Village Pump. If you would like further information about distinguishing types of pages, please see What is an article?. Again, thank you for contributing, and enjoy your Wikipedia experience! Thank you. Jac 16888 Talk 12:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Links
Sorry Gelnd it seems an admin has deleted the links about the multiregional as it is against wiki rules to post them on here and the wrong place to post them. I would like to get in contact with Jeffrey Goodman over email at some point. I found his website 1 I do not own his book on comets yet, but one thing i would like to ask Goodman is does he think comets will be hitting earth in the future? I see he draws influence from some of the work of the scientist Victor Clube.

Liveintheforests (talk) 11:35, 14 June 2011 (UTC)