User talk:Geo Swan/archive/2011-08

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'''If you are considering initiating an xfd on material I started

Templates?
When an article is already in a style, it is contingent on editors to follow that style, besides you made input mistakes on every one of the templates in It's a Wonderful Life. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 02:20, 2 August 2011 (UTC).

I've have been asked this question numerous times and the simple answer is that the Wiki templates (all of them!!) contain errors that are very difficult to correct, including use of second and et al. authors, full titling, multiple and first editions, location, date location. I have tried to get template designers to address the programming faults, to no avail. I can correct all of these programming errors, but it often makes more sense and less time to start out with the correct Harvard Citation or Modern Language Association (MLA) style guide employed in a "scratch cataloguing" format. Since I do Wikipedia editing as a diversion from my other work, I tend to spend little time and give articles only a cursory examination. If there is a very minor error such as a misplaced comma, I "tweak" the article and I don't usually elaborate on the change since it will show up in the history note on the article. As for citations, I rely on the MLA (Modern Language Association) style which is the world's most common bibliographic style and one that is accepted by Wikipedia. I have been utilizing this citation style in my own writing and in the cataloguing that I carried out in my other life as a librarian. I know that the standard today for library cataloguing is to simply download an entire MARC (MAchine Readable Cataloging) record form an established library but I continued to be a curmudgeon and relied on "scratch" editing which I still apply to Wikipedia work today. Basically it follows the old format of: Author. Title. Place of Publication: Publisher, Date of publication. (with variations to satisfy ordering and researching stipulations, usually ended by including an ISBN (international standard book number) and at times, page references). There are some subtle variations of the MLA style to facilitate multiple authors, articles, multimedia and other questions. Sorry for being verbose but I will make a point of stopping to clarify some of my edits but when it's merely a spelling, sentence or grammatical error, I will still give it a "tweak."

Further- the style employed for note citation is the Harvard Citation style which one other Wiki editor eons ago had begun to use and even though it works well with the MLA style, it is a separate system. Basically, the first reference is completely cited and all following references are provided in a brief format: "Author(s) Date, page." Sorry, I got off on a tangent in my earlier response, you merely wanted to know what style was being employed. FYI, my other problem is that I have a background stemming from 35+ years as a librarian and due my ancient teachings, I had gone through rigorous training for cataloguing and reference works. As you can visualize, I am an old fossil but I have in my last few years, been able to adopt newer technology. My last assignment in a high school library was eye-opening as my library technician and I simply downloaded MARC (Machine-Accessible Record Control) information from library collections where the questionable book was already cataloged. What a joy, simply copy someone else's cataloguing and paste it into our data base. To me that is like the "template" system but it isn't always the best way. I did have to resort at times to doing my own cataloguing to correct errors. As an author and editor, I have an interest in the mundane and arcane world of cataloguing and referencing.

As you may already determine, there are a number of suggested styles that are in place on Wikipedia. Many of these are based on the use of templates for editing and here is where the issue may actually be of discussion. The template guides have a number of variances that do not match the actual APA (American Psychological Association) style, which is one of the style guides used for referencing research. The APA guide was developed at a University level as a shorter, simpler guideline and intended for psychology, education, and other social sciences. University professors invariably assigned this guide to newcomers because it was considered easier to master and had the basic information required for a citation. However, the Wikipedia templates that were created by editors such as yourself or other editors used the APA style, or some slight variations of it.

I do understand the use of templates, it is merely that the catalog information that is in the "widely-used" template is based on a system that is not best adapted for research papers. I understand that many editors may prefer a template because it looks simple to use but as I indicated before; for me, it is just as fast to "scratch catalog" and if you know how to use the MLA style, it actually provides more information for the user. There have been some efforts to rewrite the templates but I find it easier to do without them and still give a source citation. Again, that's me... where I have been involved in major articles- see Amelia Earhart, North American P-51 Mustang and the Avrocar (aircraft), you will find that I have properly referenced sources of information (just not with templates). As to other's suggestion of having the template designers revise their work, I can't see challenging the whole wiki editing group when most people rely on the templates. My rewriting them to a more commonly used style would take a whole lot of explanation, as I have attempted to do for you. It's hard to summarize 30 years worth of cataloging experience for a non-librarian and make it relevant. If I didn't care what system I used, why would I change? would be the obvious reply. BTW, if you ask me the time, I will tell you how to design a clock. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 03:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC).

Takfir wal-Hijra
You moved Takfir wal-Hijra to Jama'at al-Muslimin.

I'd like to read the discussion that preceded this renaming. Could you please tell me where to look for it?

Thanks Geo Swan (talk) 14:24, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There was none. Since Jama'at al-Muslimin was crushed and Shukri Mustafa executed, I thought there was enough of a distinction between Jama'at al-Muslimin and any succeeding groups calling themselves Takfir wal-Hijra to have separate articles (if for no other reason than Jama'at al-Muslimin objected to being called  Takfir wal-Hijra). I originally only created a redirect from Takfir wal-Hijra to Jama'at al-Muslimin, but then I found a lot of sources on  Takfir wal-Hijra from old versions of the article, so I created a separate article. Do you object to the dividing of the article? --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Let's conduct this discussion on Talk:Jama'at al-Muslimin. Geo Swan (talk) 17:22, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

"worlds hottest cougar comment"
I didnt want to get the sonny and cher toys AFD off topic but your comment was brilliant I am still laughing.RafikiSykes (talk) 17:55, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad you liked it. Geo Swan (talk) 18:56, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Cher dolls
Thank u for your help to keep the article. You can also used the site in the external link to add citations. Bye --79.13.80.73 (talk) 10:31, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Bgwhite (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mohammad Dawood (Bagram detainee)


The article Mohammad Dawood (Bagram detainee) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Fails WP:GNG, WP:BIO

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. IQinn (talk) 22:42, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of El Banna v. Bush


The article El Banna v. Bush has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Fails WP:GNG. Not a single secondary source that covers this case.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. IQinn (talk) 02:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Please fix
Your user space staff showing up in the main space categories. Please fix. IQinn (talk) 02:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This assertion was simply incorrect. Geo Swan (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)