User talk:Geoff Parts

Syd Abram
Hi Geoff Parts, a couple of issues regarding your edits to Syd Abram; the Historic Wigan RL Moments: 1929 Challenge Cup Final reference is just as legitimate as the WIGAN RLFC 1895-1986 by Ian Morrison ISBN 0 907969 19 4 (1986) reference, the fact that the quoted playing positions for Syd Abram differ means that the position is disputed, consequently the existing detail shouldn't be removed (I'll contact wigan.rlfans.com, to see if I can get clarification), also the reference detailing his birth registration is still relevant and shouldn't be removed. I've also amended the edits you made to place of birth so that the http://www.lan-opc.org.uk reference didn't leave a red-link. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 18:19, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Degsy (?) I'm new to this and find it very complicated - why no simple REPLY button? Don't know if this how I reply to you? Syd Abram was a neighbour when I was a kid in Hindley in the 1950s. He was proud of the fact that he scored the first ever try at Wembley, and I remember him describing himself as a scrum half. I also briefly worked with him at "Clarington Coach and Haulage Co" in the 70s. My memories apart, Ian Morrison's book is well-researched as he had access to all the club archives etc. He lists the team for every match Wigan played and I can only find Syd Abram at stand-off on one occasion. He played centre (3) in his first game, away at Widnes on 23rd Oct 1926, scoring a try in a 35-2 win. Remaining appearances that season at centre, except one appearance on the left wing (5): Wakefield away on 18th April 1927. In 1927-28 he played only 7 or 8 games, all except one at centre - the one at scrum half against Leigh on 25th Feb 1928. In 1928-29, 25 of Syd's 26 league appearances were at scrum half (1 against Widnes awawy at stand off when Jim Sullivan switched to 7). In 21 of these, A Binks was at stand off. In the cup and Lancashire cup that year (28-29) Binks and Abram were paired at 6 and 7 in all 12 matches (incl a RLCC semi-final replay). Only in that replay, according to Ian Morrison, was Abram listed at 6 and Binks at 7.
 * Re Syd's birth: the previous reference is to his birth registration being in the July to Sept quarter of 1906 in the Wigan district. The Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerk project which I quoted, confirms his actual date of birth from the original St Peters Hindley register, and the fact that his parents, Thompson and Ellen Abram, lived at 120 Liverpool Road, Hindley. Not sure what a red link is, or what I did wrong!
 * I hope you get this and that it's helpful. Syd should be recognised as a son of Hindley and the first RL tryscorer at Wembley. Indeed this claim is on his gravestone in Hindley cemetery - easy to find as it's in a prominent place at the first main junction after the entrance off Castle Hill, Hindley.
 * Geoff Parts (talk) 10:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I've got used to the primitive Talk process over the years, it would be possible for you to respond to me on my Talk page, and then for me to respond to you on your Talk page, etc. but it can end up like "to-me, to-you, to-me, to-you" as per the Chuckle Brothers, so I prefer all inter-user talk on a specific topic to be on all one user's Talk page. I suspect Ian Morrison's book will be correct, but I've contacted wigan.rlfans.com and I am waiting for a reply. As for red-links, if you look at the article for, e.g. Lou Brown (a colleague of Syd Abram) you'll see blue-links to lots of Wikipedia pages, and also all the references to external websites are legitimate blue links, you'll also see red-links for Ngaruawahia Panthers, Bordeaux XIII, and 1926–1927 New Zealand rugby league tour of Great Britain, these are okay as it indicates that Wikipedia articles need to be created for them, but I believe a reference should always be blue not red (Hope that makes sense). Do you have Syd Abram's date of death? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:06, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've had a response from wigan.rlfans.com, they've sent me a scan of an extract from The Times published 2-days after the Challenge Cup final, and it names the half-backs as; S. Abram and A. K. Binks, in that order which infers that Syd Abram was and Binks was . Of course this is not conclusive, but it would be considered a reliable reference. Though surprisingly The Times extract does not list the Wigan  that day, John Sherrington, at all!!! Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:50, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you local to Hindley cemetery? If so, would you be able to obtain Syd Abram's date of death from his gravestone? A photograph of the gravestone could also be added to the article. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:17, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added date of death (4 Feb 1988) to Syd Abram's entry. I have photo of gravestone but no idea where it should go or how to upload it. The grave is also listed in Hindley Cemetery records on http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/hindleycemetery.php?opt=hindleycemetery<?ref> by entering Sydney Abram.  This gives no date of death but date of burial as 18 Feb 1988 at 9 Burlington St, Hindley. Regards, DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
 * 4-Years later, I've updated the Syd Abram article, though there still seems to be some confusion as to whether he played, or in the 1929 Challenge Cup Final. Best regards 11:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)