User talk:Geoffd99

Your submission at Articles for creation: Micro Arts Group (January 9)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Micro Arts Group and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theroadislong&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 14:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Micro Arts Group (January 9)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Blaze Wolf was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Micro Arts Group and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Blaze_Wolf&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 15:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Micro Arts Group has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Micro Arts Group. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 11:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Micro Arts Group (January 10)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Micro Arts Group and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theroadislong&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Micro_Arts_Group reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 11:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

paid editing
Hello Geoffd99. The nature of your edits gives the impression you have an undisclosed financial stake in promoting a topic, but you have not complied with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. Paid advocacy is a category of conflict of interest (COI) editing that involves being compensated by a person, group, company or organization to use Wikipedia to promote their interests. Undisclosed paid advocacy is prohibited by our policies on neutral point of view and what Wikipedia is not, and is an especially serious type of COI; the Wikimedia Foundation regards it as a "black hat" practice akin to black-hat search-engine optimization.

Paid advocates are very strongly discouraged from direct article editing, and should instead propose changes on the talk page of the article in question if an article exists. If the article does not exist, paid advocates are extremely strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. At best, any proposed article creation should be submitted through the articles for creation process, rather than directly.

Regardless, if you are receiving or expect to receive compensation for your edits, broadly construed, you are  required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:Geoffd99. The template Paid can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form:. If I am mistaken – you are not being directly or indirectly compensated for your edits – please state that in response to this message. Otherwise, please provide the required disclosure. In either case, do not edit further until you answer this message. Theroadislong (talk) 11:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, I am not paid to do this, I am the founder of this art organisation, which was ground breaking, had many firsts, was diverse (especially for the time) and was not commercial. I started Micro Arts in 1984. To check the validity of what I say, see the Computer Arts Archive page (in entry). This is part of Computer Arts Society (founded 1966) which is part of the British Computer Society BCS, a reliable educational and trade body. BCS just gave Micro Arts a three month exhibition. Please advise. So I am involved with it, but not paid. It seems strange that any old bass player gets a page, but an important public computer art organisation didn't have a page. So I put it on myself. Please remove this 'serious' charge as it is against the principles of Wikipedia, which is to provide accurate information. The refs are academic articles, public bodies, etc. Thanks Geoff Geoffd99 (talk) 11:33, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * As the founder of this art organisation Wikipedia will deem you to be a paid editor and you MUST make the required disclosure on your user page. Theroadislong (talk) 12:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * OK that is no problem. I had no idea. I will do it now. Does that mean the actual Micro Arts website can be put as a reference, since it has much information, all educational for students and researchers? Thanks Geoffd99 (talk) 12:58, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Where is my user page? Do I put it into the Micro Arts entry somewhere?
 * There is no client, do I put my name there too as I have above?
 * Many thanks. Geoff Geoffd99 (talk) 13:01, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Geoffd99 (talk) 13:01, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You user page is here User:Geoffd99, the Micro Arts website is a primary source so cannot be used to establish notability, we need independent sources that cover the groupin significant detail. Theroadislong (talk) 13:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Does that mean a giant dollar sign appears on all my edits etc? I see that for the Computer Arts Society (a similar group, funded by the BCS) it has edits from the V&A Museum
 * Usr VAwebteam is an official representative of the Victoria and Albert Museum. All uploads of V&A material by this user are cleared by O T R S ticket ID ....
 * Permis sion O TR S
 * They hold many of the old computer artists' work, and make money from them with special exhibs, cards, status, etc. So how come they get 'permission'? As if these huge museams don't make money.
 * If I get a giant dollar sign, I will not post the Micro Arts entry - which deprives your readers of useful information. Go, pop group bass players, famously not in it for the money!
 * Thanks Geoff Geoffd99 (talk) 13:42, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't add self promotional material to Computer Arts Society. Theroadislong (talk) 13:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not 'self' it is Micro Arts which was a group of people. I think the Archive or someone independent can do it, now I realise the rules (having never added a page before). If I ignore my new entry will it expire in 6 months, or do I delete it? Thanks Geoffd99 (talk) 13:56, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * the edit included your name and group name, so looked self promotional to me, you can leave it for 6 mohnts or you can blank your draft and it will be tagged for deletion. Theroadislong (talk) 13:59, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have just noticed you have removed all references to Micro Arts Group, which is deleting vital art history. The UK's national Computer Arts Archive has Micro Arts Group as a major item, there is an academic paper on it. Micro Arts Group is really important historically, it was DIVERSE and EDUCATIONAL in the 1980s. Given the new interest in generative art it should be there, I don't understand your hostility. My 'status' is irrevelant.
 * Please run this by a computer art history person if you think it is about Nvidia, or games, or whatever. This is NOT a commercial entity. Scroll this page link below, you will see it is first Archive Collection (this is not my page, I do not run Archives) https://www.computer-arts-archive.com/ They got in touch with me when I finally got around to making a website about it.
 * Also, there is an Academic Paper which Prof. Sean Clark wrote and presented at EVA (he asked me some questions., I didn;t write it) at https://www.scienceopen.com/hosted-document?doi=10.14236/ewic/EVA2021.52
 * This is a NATIONAL ARCHIVE. And EVA is a very long established art conference.
 * There was a link on the Prestel teletext (videotext) page, Micro Arts was the ONLY arts resource in Micronext 800, again very important historically. Again, Prestel ASKED us to be on there because they saw how important it all was. It was first art downloadable software, before the internet.
 * >>> So can you please reinstate the links? They are not commercial and are important to art history. Why are you deleting them? My status is irrevelant. Please let me know about this becuase I will appeal to higher wiki people, on DIVERSITY grounds, as we had WOMEN artists, GAY artists, FEMINIST software (SCUM Manifesto) a proper range of people, which was not typical of the white male computer arts scene at the time (or now I should add). Your help is appreciated. Please let me know what your response is. Many thanks, Geoff Davis Geoffd99 (talk) 14:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to update, this was a genuine mistake as I did not know this rule about founder member etc., since I was adding * historical statements about an independant arts organisation * (Micro Arts Group, not me). If I put on my page as you say - "make the required disclosure on your user page" - can the edits be put back on (small edits only)? Rules say: "While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable". These are objective small edits and just objective true statements (not 'beliefs') like 'Micro Arts was invited onto Micronet 800 (in Prestel) in 1985' etc. How is that against rules? What is your justification given the rules have exceptions for exactly this type of thing? If it makes any difference, I am now on the committee of the Computer Arts Organisation, a charity, which has been around for over 50 years. That is same 'status' as V&A Museum, Tate, etc. Thanks Geoff Geoffd99 (talk) 13:56, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to update, this was a genuine mistake as I did not know this rule about founder member etc., since I was adding * historical statements about an independant arts organisation * (Micro Arts Group, not me). If I put on my page as you say - "make the required disclosure on your user page" - can the edits be put back on (small edits only)? Rules say: "While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable". These are objective small edits and just objective true statements (not 'beliefs') like 'Micro Arts was invited onto Micronet 800 (in Prestel) in 1985' etc. How is that against rules? What is your justification given the rules have exceptions for exactly this type of thing? If it makes any difference, I am now on the committee of the Computer Arts Organisation, a charity, which has been around for over 50 years. That is same 'status' as V&A Museum, Tate, etc. Thanks Geoff Geoffd99 (talk) 13:56, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

January 2023
Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia. While objective prose about beliefs, organisations, people, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 14:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia: check out the Teahouse!

 * Yes thanks I will check that out, but that is not what my question is about. Can you reply to my question about actual validity (by Wiki rules) of my historically accurate informational non-personal minor edits, which are important (in today's debate on modern art / computers etc.) and not some filler? Thanks Theroadislong! Regards Geoff Davis Geoffd99 (talk) 14:44, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to your edits on Computer Arts Society where you added irrelevant content source to your own website? Please discuss these edits on the relevant article talk pages. Theroadislong (talk) 14:57, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Since I can't see the edit I have no idea what you mean. The Computer Arts Society CAS stopped (paused) in the early 1980s, and Micro Arts appeared in the same role in 1984 (promoter of computer & digital art) but with a public and general educational rather than academic focus. That is why CAS are excited about Micro Arts, and why it was the first Collection in the CAS related national Computer Arts Archive (see links, you removed). It is not irrelevant at all, it is extremely revelant, as were all the other tiny edits I did, for the benefit of the public, as is the Wiki role. CAS restarted only a few years ago, and now has more of a retrospective approach, which is why they found Micro Arts. You might notice Micro Arts doesn't even sell prints off the website. I forgot to mention that Micro Arts had 2 public exhibitions recently, last one was at the HQ of the British Computer Society BCS in London. This was on for 3 months, and was followed by Ernest Edmunds at 80 exhibition. This was exhibits only, with no commercial prints etc at all. Unlike normal galleries. I don't know how respectable Micro Arts has to be, for inclusion as a proper organisation. Why are you persecuting computer artists and the history of computer art? Please post this in the Tea House, thanks. Geoffd99 (talk) 17:29, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Micro Arts at CAS (first exhibition there as par tof a new programme). Visit https://computer-arts-society.com/exhibitions/index.html Geoffd99 (talk) 18:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * As previously advised you will need to make an edit request on the articles talk page, but any proposed content will require an independent source, we can't just promote your exhibitions, with a link like that. Theroadislong (talk) 18:40, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Since you say "I can't see the edit I have no idea what you mean" this is one of your edits to Computer Arts Society here which included your own name and organisation, that is by definition self promotion and is not what Wikipedia is for. Theroadislong (talk) 18:44, 2 February 2023 (UTC)