User talk:Geopersona/List of rivers of England (proposed change)

The question remains as to what to include of course. There are myriad small named streams in parts of England eg Cumbria and The Pennines, the inclusion of all (or even the majority) of which might seem 'over the top'. Conversely there are relatively large watercourses in other parts eg the Weald, which do not appear to be named on either the 25K or 50K OS maps but which would seem to be worthy of inclusion. I have generally been guided by a mix of criteria; whether the watercourse appears a double-lined feature on the OS map for any part of its length - some indication of notability, if you like, its length, and whether it has particular cultural associations of which I'm aware. All a little arbitrary I know but, unless going for the lot, what criteria should be employed?

The designation of all listed watercourses as 'principal' (P) (my own term used for convenience at this stage), 'left bank' (L) or 'right bank' (R) is only partially complete and even less so than the list itself.

There is the question as to how best to treat those rivers and their ctachments which straddle the national borders. It's okay from one point of view in listing all the English bits in say this list article and all the Welsh (or Scottish) bits in the corresponding list article for Wales (or Scotland) but it doesn't seem to do the five rivers/ctachments concerned full justice. Any thoughts? Geopersona (talk) 20:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

River Wye
Just noting that, if you do it this way, you will need to add in some of the rivers in Herefordshire which are tributaries of the Wye and which lie wholly or partly in England - the Monnow, Dore, Frome, Lugg, Arrow, Lodon, and probably others. They are among those listed at List of rivers of Wales. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Quite so! I've been surprised at what omissions there are in the list at this point - though since it is a work in progress, perhaps I ought not to be. All those Herefordshire rivers should be in the English list anyway if the title of the list is anything to go by, don't you think? It may be with these cross-border rivers and their catchments that the full list of tributaries should be given in both relevant lists but with a 'Wales' in brackets after the wholly Welsh members of the list on the 'List of rivers in England'. One would want to be consistent across the 5 catchments which are caught up -the Wye, Severn, Dee, Esk and Tweed. Geopersona (talk) 05:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Main stem
An alternative to (P) for 'principal river' would be to use (M) or (MS) for Main stem which amounts to the same thing but which appears to be an accepted term. It is perhaps an Americanism as I'd not previously been familiar with it - but then I'm perhaps just showing my ignorance! Geopersona (talk) 18:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)