User talk:Gerda Arendt/2009

Archive of 2009 | Archive of 2010 | Archive of 2011 | talk Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted. ... --> Again, welcome! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Graham Waterhouse
A tag has been placed on Graham Waterhouse requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This is Gerda Arendt, new contributor from Germany and slightly overwhelmed by the amount of reading required before starting an article successfully. My intention (August 2) was to supply more information on composer and cellist Graham Waterhouse, on the "list of 21st century classical composers by name, than his year of birth. I thought that once you are on a list like that you are notable. The article was deleted before I even could mark it "hang on".

I improved the article in my user space and would like to discuss it. Questions: Graham Waterhouse is born in England but lives in Germany, I would not know in which category to place him. There is no category "cellist" - redirect to "cello". Which category would show "21st century classical composer"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You asked for help over at WP:FEED, and I've responded there. I'd be happy to help you with the article needs, categorization, etc. If you have any other questions about this, feel free to ask me here or on my talk page. Thanks, cmadler (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi, glorious you, thank you for dealing with my questions, although we are discussing music other than blue-grass (that I like to listen to). Topic German Composer: I believe rather strongly that music is nothing national, so would hesitate German or British, - both if at all?. I found some categories Graham Waterhouse fits in as a composer - as you may have seen - but not for his equal competence as a cellist. Topic Notability: As pointed out before, I thought he was regarded as notable being listed as a 21st c c composer, therefore I wanted to supply more info (not the other way round, if he had not been listed I probably would not have gotten the idea). The English Chamber Orchestra would not record a Portrait CD of a composer if they were not convinced of the quality of his music. The BDRS opened its Welcome Recital of the annual conference 2009 of the IDRS in Birmingham with a piece by Graham Waterhouse (Gestural Variations), two more pieces were played, one a world premiere (The Akon of Swat). Conference website the major cultural center of Munich,Gasteig, hosts his chamber music concerts since 1998. Please let me know how to procede. The situation now - page deleted - seems worse to me than no info. Thank you for your precious time!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Categorizing him as a 20th and 21st century composer works also. You should probably not put him in the generic Category:Composers since you've put him in more specific sub-categories.
 * As for notability, I'm not suggesting that he isn't notable, just that the article you have doesn't really cover it. Are there any reviews of his compositions? What do music critics think about him? I notice that he's written music for Great Highland Bagpipe and string orchestra, an unusual combination. Surely there have been magazine/newspaper/music journal articles commenting on that? cmadler (talk) 15:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and interest. I guess you would like listening to Chieftain's Salute. I put some reviews in English in the discography already, please have a look. Reviews in Süddeutsche Zeitung (a leading German paper) and professional papers are in German, some to be found on his press page. More reviews in English on CD-page. How would I include them in the article in a way they get noticed - without making it too long? I will follow your advice and omit category "composer". The German-British-qu was only about "cellist" and remains open.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mind if I make some edits to your article? I ask as a courtesy because it is on your user page. cmadler (talk) 14:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Please go ahead! I never wrote in this field and welcome improvement. Should I perhaps include the list of publishers? Commissions? I don't want to include orchestras he played with (as famous as they are) because Graham Waterhouse was always independent.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I rather highlighted cellist than bassoonist, do you agree? (Both are useless, because its only about cello and bassoon.) I wonder if I should take out the categories for the moment, because it's quite funny to find my name under Chamber Music ... And now?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Information about commissions and (especially) competitions won might help the article, particularly if they are notable in some way.cmadler (talk) 16:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Leave the categories on, because I think you'll be able to move this back into an article soon. cmadler (talk) 16:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Reviews from Süddeutsche Zeitung are good, especially if you can give a citation for the original (e.g. link to it on their website, rather than on his). If you can add in some of the information, especially links, I will work on formatting it to look good and fit in the article. Thanks, cmadler (talk) 17:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for adding Diplo Diversions! I put the link to IDRS' first occurrence under commissions. Should the abbreviation IDRS be introduced there and used then? I reduced the links to instruments a bit,to point out the unusual ones more. I'm afraid the competition sentence is very German. The cello-line the more international ... As for category: just "Classical cellists" would fit best but contains only the small number of cellists with multiple nationality.?? Süddeutsche Zeitung unfortunately doesn't offer free access to archived articles but sells them. Search for Graham Waterhouse renders 42 results, review of a concert with only his works (8 Nov 2003): gives you the beginning, - more for money (Bezahlung). "The Akond of Swat" - new at IDRS 2009 (I will include) - do you know the poem? Have fun!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

One more question: Siegfried Palm is covered in German, so is Beat Furrer - how could that be connected? or translated?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right that the abbreviation IDRS should be given the first time it's mentioned, and used thereafter. Beat Furrer has as English Wikipedia article already (added link). The Siegfried Palm article could certainly be translated, see WP:RFT for details. As for Süddeutsche Zeitung, does a library near you carry it? You might use the internet to search (date, page number, etc.) and then go to the library for the whole thing (be sure to get full citation information). Or if they don't have it in hard copy/microfilm/fiche, a library might have a subscription that would allow you to access the full articles online. Just a few ideas. cmadler (talk) 02:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't link to the English Beat Furrer because the page comes with this warnung about lack of reference. The German one seems to be more solid. I have the article of Süddeutsche Zeitung in paper, also asked SZ if they would permit access to it for the purpose ... just an idea. I included "Hale Bopp" that comes with an unusual link, composers listed in alphabetical order - smile--Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC). Will look at Siegfried Palm translation later - maybe next week.
 * I think we've got this far enough along that it won't be deleted, so I've moved it back to Graham Waterhouse. Let's continue any further discussion on it at its talk page. Thanks, cmadler (talk) 14:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank YOU!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Graham Waterhouse
Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible.

Graham Waterhouse
Good article on Graham Waterhouse. I added a biography section because I thought your introduction that included his biography should have its own biography section. Good DYK though. Chris (talk) 22:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you!--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar Award

 * I agree a congratulations and a well done is most definitly deserved! Well done!Hell In A Bucket (talk) 23:31, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

de:William Waterhouse
Das habe ich leider kommen sehen. Die Kollegen in der deutschen Wikipedia sind, wie soll ich sagen, sehr deutsch. Mir ist vor einiger Zeit genau das selbe passiert (Interwiki Links). Ratschlag: durchatmen, bis 20 zählen, runterschlucken — da kommt man nicht gegen an. MfG, Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK
In this edit you edited the wrong page: the page you edited was not the place for nominating DYK articles, it was the instruction sheet. I have undone your edit there and listed your article properly; the nomination is now located here.

I also left some comments in response to the nomination. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 14:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I also left a response there. Thank you for your attention! I'm learning.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

FP7 projects
Hi, you added a few projects to Seventh Framework Programme, could you add a one line explanation to each project, as the acronyms say nothing to no-one. Thanks. -- eiland (talk) 14:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, I added only one project and the article PARSIFAL Project EU, will add a line to that one.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Melos
Dear Gerda, Thanks for your message - glad I have done something useful! I haven't looked at the query yet but I should say that the information I collated at first was simply whatever came to hand, rather than anything very systematic... hence there may be major gaps and perhaps grave distortions... almost certainly. So if you have any sources which add or contradict, the chances are that you are right. I just felt wikipedia ought to have something on the subject!!! I'll have another look.

I am about to add this to your Siegfried Palm article, hope you approve. I found it for the list of partnerships for the Double Concerto (Brahms) article (not terribly good), before you had obliged us with your useful work on him. I find German wikipedia often a very valuable source for musicians! Every good wish, Eebahgum (talk) 22:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I have put my best answer to the name question and can't add more at present. I'm sorry I don't know about Janet Baker but if your info says so then why not add her in the mention of the tour? Please excuse discursive replies, senility setting in Eebahgum (talk) 22:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops! Sorry I see it is in your references for that article. Removed again!!Eebahgum (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gerda, Congratulations on your work on both of these articles: I look forward to seeing the DYK for Richard Adeney. Melos is greatly improved too thanks to your efforts! Keep up the good work. Best wishes Eebahgum (talk) 08:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Your note
Glad if I could help. Will have a look at the article you mention in a while. Keep up the good work! LilHelpa (talk) 13:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Cecil Aronowitz
Thank you for your work on the Aronowitz article. Nice job! Hrdinský (talk) 07:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your substantial help! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Great. Now how about an article on Hugh Maguire??!Eebahgum (talk) 23:47, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Cecil Aronowitz

 * It is so rare that violists are highlighted in anything&mdash;I enjoyed seeing this on the front page! Nice work. Cheers, Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 04:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Some others
Dear Gerda, You are going great guns! When I put together some notes on the Philharmonia Quartet I was very surprised to find no articles on Henry Holst, Herbert Downes, Anthony Pini... Do these interest you enough to follow them up a bit more? I met H.D. in a train years ago and he regaled me with entertaining stories. (Not encyclopedic though!) Best wishes, Eebahgum (talk) 23:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * great guns, do you mean the line ... that William Waterhouse considered the rapport between violist Cecil Aronowitz and cellist Terence Weil the special distinction of the Melos Ensemble? - Thank you for your expectations. I do believe that ensemble musicians deserve to be recognized as individuals. However, regarding the three players mentioned I have no more qualificaton than anybody else to use the recipe: some luck with google spiced with details from sources found in Melos_Ensemble + reviews + more reviews Go ahead - or wait, please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'm so glad you got that quotation. I put an external link to the source of it into the original Melos article, but then when I looked again the link had expired and I couldn't find it any more!! Well done for tracking it down, it's a key quotation. Bernard Shore is another deserving candidate for an article. I'm trying to find line-for-line refs for the Nellie Melba article, which is a bit of a shipwreck surprisingly, but might be seriously improved. Eebahgum (talk) 21:53, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The "key quotation", I nominated it for DYK, smile. - I addded two sources to my last achievement Kinder Insel Hombroich afraid that #1 will not stay long. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Good about Terence Weil. Did you see the nice new article on Watson Forbes? Best, Eebahgum (talk) 20:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you see this? We've been rumbled! Eebahgum (talk) 18:25, 29 December 2009 (UTC) But the gentleman seems pleased rather than otherwise with the way he has been cited. Eebahgum (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Melos Ensemble
Thanks. Found it congenial - hmm. If that's what the source wrote, that would almost be a reason not to use it. Our articles may all be based on external sources, but we're meant to be not just copy/pasting their particular forms of expression. Re links: the approach I've always taken is (maximum of) one link per subject per section. In a longish article, the same composer may well have more than one link. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:13, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Henze Kammermusik 1958
Dear Gerda Thanks - I'm not, however, any sort of expert on the Melos - really not at all. I see what you're saying. I'll inquire of Aldeburgh and see if they know. Best wishes Eebahgum (talk) 15:12, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've sent a message to B-P.F. - we'll await results! Best, Eebahgum (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gerda, I have received a very kind and prompt reply from the Archivist: The Henze Kammermusik was due to be given its 'first performance in England' in the 1959 Festival, and is programmed in the Aldeburgh Festival Programme book of 1959 for 25 June. In the event Peter Pears was indisposed, so instead, a BBC recording of it (made just before the Festival) was played to the audience in the hall. The 1959 Programme Book refers to the first performance having already been given in Hamburg in November 1958, with soloists as you describe (Pears/Bream). So (my informant concludes) the Hamburg 1958 performance was the first.

This probably qualifies as WP:OR, except that you can refer to the 1959 Programme Book and its statement that Hamburg was the first, and support that with the statements in your weblinks. With best wishes, Eebahgum (talk) 14:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Your request
Was away on vacation/holiday. Will respond when I can. LilHelpa (talk) 12:02, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Folkwang Academy looks clean. LilHelpa (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Folkwang Hochschule
Thanks for your note. I agree with moving the article from Folkwang Academy, as the school's English-language pages use the Hochschule name. I think I went with "Academy" earlier because some Wikipedia articles had redlinks to that name, and biographical info I used when writing Lauren Newton (singer) must have referred to "Folkwang Academy" as well. I'm glad to know about the DYK nomination. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 17:17, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Neill Sanders
Hi Gerda, Thanks for the note, and the article - a useful addition.:-) A thought - Maybe reword opening sentences which are so close to wording in cited source, might attract deletion by admins as 'copyvio'. - Especially if source online, as search engines easily betray. I'm in writing mode! Best wishes, Eebahgum (talk) 10:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Is that any help? well done...Eebahgum (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

If there is more to add, it would be nice to draw the sentences together a little more into two or three paragraphs. But these are minutiae, quite at your discretion....! - all is well. Eebahgum (talk) 09:43, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In context that he was a founder-member, 'played with' is fine to mean he was still a member: if wished you could clarify by saying 'he continued to play with them...' but it would be a bit long-winded. The second 'Melos' bluelink is entirely optional: the article isn't long enough to make it really necessary, but repeat bluelinks from the intro paragraph into the main text are not uncommon and do sometimes help. I can't decide if 'premiere' for the Britten works should be singular or plural. A footnote source for the appointments at Michigan would help, as this is told 'on trust'.

Okay - why not put the Sgt Pepper information under 'Recordings' - which it is - and then you wouldn't need the header for it - it could just be another line in the recordings section, after the classicals? A bit repetitious otherwise. But as you wish. Eebahgum (talk) 21:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Could you have a look at Mr. Sanders's DYK nomination? There are still some issues to be resolved. Thanks, Ucucha 04:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Piano Trio No. 1 Shostakovich
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Piano Trio No. 1 Shostakovich, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: Piano Trio No. 1 (Shostakovich). It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally moving or duplicating content, please be sure you have followed the procedure at Splitting by acknowledging the duplication of material in edit summary to preserve attribution history.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 22:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * no intention to create such a page. I wonder what happened. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:06, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Adrian Beers
Dear Gerda, Well done with Adrian Beers. The Wardour Castle Summer Schools are indeed interesting: but Dr Hooper, the researcher in your link (external, a blog), has collected much information on the subject already, and lays it out as being his own research. In justice to him I would steer away from actually making an article on the subject as it is enough to redirect the reader to Dr Hooper's webpage. You could also add in the other site (Boosey and Hawkes Composers site) with a timeline on Harrison Birtwistle which gives the dates and the fact that HB, Alexander Goehr and Maxwell Davies were co-founders and Tippett the President. That site also explains that the reason for the site being chosen was that Birtwistle held a teaching post at the school at New Wardour Castle and make the links accordingly. You did well to find that 1982 Egon Wellesz Retrospective concert, Octet op 67, with Maguire. As for Giovanni Grancino, when this happens and one has a family to refer to, you just have to link to the nearest relative that IS represented by a Wikipedia article until or unless you or someone else writes one for the specific person you have in mind. I don't know the present status but in English Wikipedia the same thing used to happen with the Gottfried Silbermann organs etc, to make links for Andreas and Johann Andreas... Happy linking!! Did you see my new Karl Formes? Best wishes, Eebahgum (talk) 00:40, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Found the Kulik in German which will do for now, perhaps the Englished link will reappear somewhere in due course! Eebahgum (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Andor Foldes
Dear Gerda I wonder if you would do me the kindness of checking over my translation of the German article on Andor Foldes? (There was a tag requesting the translation, see talk page). I had to edit out some stuff about a premiere of the Bartok 2nd concerto, which I slipped into the Bartok page as well (for a link), as Jerome Kohl noticed that this was not the premiere of that work at all. Very clumsy of me, but fortunately it was a quick way to find out the truth!!! The wp:de link is at the side of the Foldes article. Cheers, Eebahgum (talk) 10:38, 20 December 2009 (UTC) Dear Gerda Having sought out the sources of this Foldes article I am fairly convinced that much of it is derived from dubious sources, and rather than propagate text which will be cloned I am inclined to delete much of it or export it to a sandtray untiul it can be better verified. I should not have translated it without being willing to devote more attention to it than I am currently willing to do, so please don't waste any more time on it at present. Best wishes for Christmas, Eebahgum (talk) 21:34, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Kein erfreulicher Zustand!! Hahaha! Darüber hat es mein ersten Gelächter hervor gerufen! (Sorry that's probably terrible German.) I think probably Mr. Venarius is no longer interested! Thanks for trying anyway. It really doesn't matter at all, it's just a little setback and minds can be put to the problem in a few days' time. Have a joyous Christmas, Eebahgum (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

On the contrary, I see he IS interested and has replied courteously to you. It looks as if that was simply the first New York performance - not an American first - and J Kohl has indicated earlier performances in Chicago, Pittsburgh and San Francisco. Evidently Venarius speaks with some authority and the subject is fraught with contentious questions, so I am going to back away from the Andor Foldes article after all and leave the problem for others. I have now saved my original translation and some links to the discussions Here. Happy New Year! Eebahgum (talk) 14:40, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Richard A again
Dear Gerda, I have fiddled with the R Adeney article. Note that the WorldCat link was for Adenay not Adeney, but as it DID contain results I have left them in case they are not duplicated in the WorldCat link for Adeney, which I have added. You might want to see if they can be merged. There are lots of items in the new link. Best wishes, (Steven) Eebahgum (talk) 09:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC)