User talk:Germunes

March 2012
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Saliban
Hi,

You added a couple languages to Saliban. Could you provide refs? You only give Zent & Zent for Hodi, but they only say it's "probably" Saliban, and provide no evidence. Are they just repeating what they've read elsewhere? And do you have anything on Ature?

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 09:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Zent & Zent have carried out fieldwork among the Hodi for more than 15 years, they actually were the first to do systematic fieldwork among them (other attempts were made by Coppens and others in the 80's, but with poor results). Stanford Zent, on the other hand, who was trained in linguistics in Tulane, is the only person to date who speaks both Piaroa and Hodi (other than a few Hodi). They published an update in Los Aborigenes de Venezuela (Fundacion la Salle, Caracas, 2008), where they make a more thorough analysis of their language. Either way, classifying the Hodi within the Maku family is a mistake based on old and unreliable sources.

The Mako/Wiro, on the other hand, do speak a language of their own, according to them and to the Piaroa. They do understand each other but are unable to communicate reliably (and they both assert to speak different languages!). And no, there are no written sources on this (I have been working in the area since the mid 1990s).

The Ature, on the other hand, are an extinct group from the Middle Orinoco, mentioned by many in the local literature (Scaramelli & Tarble, in the same book on indigenous health have abundant references, and they are a very reliable source -they have been working on Orinocoan archaeology and ethnohistory for more than 20 years). The Ature spoke a language related to the Piaroa, according to several chronicles, but given the lack of systematic work –and living speakers– it is difficult to tell whether they spoke a Piaroa dialect (or the other way around). But they were very prominent in the area, so the Ature remain one of the main references to Salivan languages and it is worth mentioning them.


 * Okay, sounds good. I rewrote a bit to indicate that Saliba is not another member of the Piaroa dialect cluster.
 * (Oh, and for this edit, that category does not exist.) — kwami (talk) 02:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

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