User talk:Geschichte/May 2008-October 2008

Welcome to my talk page. I will usually reply on this page only.

Archives:
 * User talk:Punkmorten/(March 2005-June 2006)
 * User talk:Punkmorten/(June 2006-November 2006)
 * User talk:Punkmorten/November 2006-August 2007
 * User talk:Punkmorten/August 2007-May 2008

Self-unreferencing articles
There are people all over wikipedia who do nothing but add unreferenced tags to articles, some less than a minute old. Why not just write the articles, take a minute or two to add the botanical authorities, and leave the unreferenced taggint to others with fewer skills and less knowledge of plants? If you need assistance adding references, forgo the tag and just link the articles on my talk page, and I'll put the authorities or some other reference in for you. Since you're obviously capable of writing articles, leaving the tagging mania up to those who can't, would, in my opinion, be of benefit to Wikipedia. --Blechnic (talk) 03:16, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

James Reith
You closed the AfD for radio talk show host James Reith, which was a reasonable close given the unanimous discussion. However, I noticed that no one in that discussion bothered to look for any sources. Had they done so, they might have found several news articles about the talk show host, more commonly known as Jim Reith, in The Post-Standard and the Syracuse Herald-Journal. Would you being willing to restore this article (and the Jim Reith redirect) given this evidence of notability? DHowell (talk) 08:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well... it's not much to bring back to light... would you be strongly opposed to starting the article over? Punkmorten (talk) 19:32, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer not to, if there's any usable material in the deleted article I'd like to use it... would you be willing to at least userfy it, if you're not willing to restore it to mainspace? DHowell (talk) 20:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * User:DHowell/James Reith. Punkmorten (talk) 07:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

New Project
Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 06:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Which looks better the above or below? Most people have no idea where these places arein Norway and I believe the national locator map is a progresssion. I tried to standardize some in coordination with most other countries yesterdat and had my work reverted. Please join in the converstation atTemplate talk:Infobox Kommune. This is important ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 09:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no strong feelings about this, except that four pictures in a row sure looks terrible. Punkmorten (talk) 09:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Well yes. For most places there wouldn't be four. There would be two like Langesund  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 10:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For settlements which are not (current) municipalities, yes. They would have the regular infobox settlement anyway. Punkmorten (talk) 10:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Ndure
Found this: File:Jaysuma Saidy Ndure op het podium van de KBC indoor 2008.JPG. Not the best image but better than nothing. Rettetast (talk) 14:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Daniela Cârlan
Is this the right person, or should I move the article? Spencer T♦C 19:36, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Confused
So what in your view would I need to do to be on the same level of experience as admins with 3000 edits? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦     $1,000,000? 16:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So now you want to know, huh? Why should I write it down for the second time? Punkmorten (talk) 21:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh I don't know I just really wish I had the talent and capabilities of administrators on here, I really find it disabling not having the abilities that admins with 4000 edits have who have barely edited the mainspace encyclopedia. I guess I'll never have the talent to be an admin. Such a pity I'll never have a badge to rule over others that people will "look up to me with" and spend all my time in council and wiki lawyering discussions rather than editing what is important. Such a pity...  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 20:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

English name
Hi! Any idea which English name to use for the defunct government agency Statens Informasjonstjeneste? Cf. the new article Odd Strand. Punkmorten (talk) 14:46, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was a tough one. But I found this link on Google claiming it is called Norwegian Central Information Service. The other English translations seem to be right in that article, so I guess it's trustable. Good work on the bio articles, and thanks for fixing the ones I write (not to mention cleaning up my talk page) :) Arsenikk (talk)  16:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Bjarne Brustad
Hi Morten. I just deleted Bjarne Brustad since it was a copyvio. Looks like it was something you created in your early days. Letting you know since this probably is something you want to fix. Rettetast (talk) 21:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Your Deletes
Please explain to me how deleting articles is improving Wikipedia (the sum of all human knowledge). Some people should never be admins... smooth 0707 (talk) 21:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Then again some people should never be editors. Punkmorten (talk) 21:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A friend referred me to your talk page. I see they already left a comment, but I feel the need to call you out for even more WP:CIVIL violations. You really take your adminship for granted, don't you?
 * If a lowly editor wants to be an asshole, that's their prerogative. You, however, by virtue of being an admin, are supposed to set a higher example. If that's too much to ask, then your adminship needs to seriously be reconsidered. 209.235.225.3 (talk) 16:49, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Judo at the 2007 Summer Universiade
Judo at the 2007 Summer Universiade http://www.judoinside.com/uk/?factfile/tournament/4857 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sporcu (talk • contribs) 20:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Barnstars
Cheated? No Barnstar for you. Barnstar Nazi 00:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Hi Punkmorten I was wondering if you thought it might be time that the main athletics categories were split by nationality too. E.g Category:Sprinters into e.g Category:French sprinters, Category:Spanish sprinters etc etc. Just a thought.. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦     $1,000,000? 14:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is getting big, yes.. I don't know. Punkmorten (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is a technical problem with the current category sizes, American films for instance has around 11,000 articles in it. Splitting by country would probably depend on how many athletes we have in the relative fields of athletics. I notice there is already Category:Canadian sprinters etc. I wonder what WP:Athletics would think....  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 14:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't even know there was a project for athletics.. Punkmorten (talk) 14:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There isn't a project? Really?? I'd be astounded if there wasn't. A WP:Lego and nothing on a sport as important as Athletics!! I know it seems like you and Waacstaats do all the leg work for athletics but I am amazed there isn't a project behind you. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦     $1,000,000? 14:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC) I've found WikiProject Running and WikiProject Olympics but you;d think there would be a general athletics project. Very odd that  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 15:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

ITN
Well, at least you [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&diff=219492537&oldid=219446227 validated] that admins actually consider what people say on WP:ITN/C and that the page is not just for show. --  tariq abjotu  16:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, sorry for being a bit out of process and all, but... I'll be the first to admit that I did not follow the prior discussion, but that item was just not close to being suitable for the main page. Punkmorten (talk) 16:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As the one who initially – and possibly unjustifiably – campaigned against its inclusion, may I personally thank you for restoring T:ITN as you did. Bobo. 17:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox templates
Hi there, Morten. I would like to commend you on your creation of numerous Norway-themed articles worthy of DYK. Truly a fine effort. One little comment, though, would you mind checking out Manual of Style (infoboxes)? Infoboxes really do make articles a wee bit better still. Just a little tip, from one editor to another. Manxruler (talk) 23:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I am aware of infoboxes, but they have a tendency to end up with mostly blank fields... Punkmorten (talk) 20:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Appreciate the 'welcome back'. Skål – Williamborg (Bill) 04:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Cappelen
I was reading footnote 4 instead of 5. Sorry. It's marked as good now. Daniel Case (talk) 08:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Lenin Steenkamp
Hey, I've added his DOB and also his states for other clubs from his Playerhistory profile. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 13:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK
 Vishnava talk  01:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Putting footaball players up for speedy-deletion
What constitutes a fully-professional league for someone to have played in to be allowed into wikipedia?

The reason why I ask this is because there are countries in the world eg Scotland where there are professional clubs who have players who operate on a part-time basis. The only nation in Europe that I am aware of which has more than two (or three) full-time professional divisions is England. - Dreamweaverjack (talk) 23:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There are some criteria at WikiProject Football/Notability. Lower Scottish divisions are probably not notable, neither are most second-tier clubs in most countries. Who was speedied? Punkmorten (talk) 15:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Interview with Åse Kleveland
The English Wikinews is going to be organizing an interview with the former Norwegian Culture Minister Åse Kleveland. She was also the head of the Swedish Film Institute and is now the chairwoman of the Norwegian Humanist Association. I am asking Wikipedians from all of the Scandinavian languages to contribute questions to her upcoming interview with Wikinews in Oslo. The page is here; please leave questions there and comments to me either on my en.wikinews talk page or my en.wikipedia talk page. Thank you very much! Mike H. Fierce! 01:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to date of birth & death to match MOS
Hi, I've come across a number of articles which you have created/made major contributions to in the Norwegian politician category. I intend to make a minor change to most of these articles to better comply with the Manual of Style: specifically, for a person with known dates of birth and death, no 'born' and 'died' is required, and their place of birth/death should be given outside of the date range (see DATE). I've made one sample change at [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thorbj%C3%B8rn_Lie&diff=223175160&oldid=196266199] to fix the date range, and add the place of birth as a separate sentence. Before I use AWB to change more (not as a bot, but using AWB will be faster and more reliable) do you have any input to the way the place of birth/death should be reported in the article? Thanks Rjwilmsi  22:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it looks awful outside of the birth and death parenthesis, but if it must be removed then it does not belong in the first paragraph. Matters are complicated, though, by the fact that it must be integrated into the text in a sensible manner, not placed randomly somewhere. Good luck. Punkmorten (talk) 08:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll take the approach you used in the Thorbjørn Lie article to put the place of birth/death as the second line, unless the article has information about where the person lived, when I'll integrate it into that line. Rjwilmsi  12:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Punkmorten (talk) 21:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Lysaker Station
Hi, you wouldn't by any chance have a picture of Lysaker Station laying around? The article is right there in the GA works, and as about the only station on Drammenbanen it lacks an image, save an artists impression from a government paper. Arsenikk (talk)  23:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I don't. I could bike down there right now and take one, but I lack a functioning camera.. Punkmorten (talk) 08:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Category:Croatian-Australian Socceroos
Hi, Category:Croatian-Australian Socceroos has come up for deletion at CfD. As this category was created as a result of this AfD, which you participated in, I thought you might have an opinion on this debate as well. Lankiveil (speak to me) 03:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC).

Battle of Fredericia
Punkmorten, I have written an article on the Battle of Fredericia, since you made a request for it. I hope it is you to your liking, and any additional edits you could make to it would be welcome. EasyPeasy21 (talk) 21:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Jacob Kielland
Well, you don't create a new article with the span of their life in the title. So, I just made it different. Thanks, -- Meldshal  (§peak to me)  22:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi – a stub template or category which you created has been nominated for deletion or renaming at Stub types for deletion. (BTW, though I can see the reasoning behind this one, it looks like it will bee far too small for a separate stub category for some time yet). Grutness...wha?  02:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Removal
Hi, can you elaborate a little? Which article in particular does this relate to? Or do you mean the rationale in general as spread across multiple articles? If the latter, then I'm not sure I see a problem. It can be said that "[Actor X] is signed to star in Zombie Massacre, scheduled for filming in 2009..." without the need for it to be linked. Removing the link merely discourages its recreation until such time as it becomes notable. All the best, Steve  T • C 13:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see it now, thanks. This is an occasion where a future film has shared a title with an old Amiga game. I should have been more vigilant in my link removals. The video game should indeed stay linked within that article. I'll make sure I look more closely in the future. Thanks again, Steve  T • C 13:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Deutsches Theater, Oslo
An article that you have been involved in editing, Deutsches Theater, Oslo, has been listed for deletion. Ecoleetage (talk) 02:47, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Bente Nordby
Hello Punkmortem. Just thought I would drop by and say thank you for the warm welcome. I am not Norwegian, although I have been following the Norwegian Women's National football Team for almost 12 years now. I can translate Norwegian well enough, but I've never had any official training. I'm also hoping to at least add some quick entries for the rest of the current team before they head to Beijing.

If there is a place for me in WikiProject Norway I would be happy to join. I'll only be good for women footballers and clubs, however.

And yes, Bente Nordby is a lesbian and I hope to incorporate this into her article. Do you have any suggestions as to where it may be best placed? Thanks so much for all that you do.

Ragnhild16 (talk) 00:09, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Austria
I removed most of the how-to content from Telephone numbers in Austria. The page is a mess right now, but there's a whole category of similar pages, so you might want to look at those too. Most of them appear to be in similar shape. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 17:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Removing information
Just a suggestion. Maybe it would make more sense to include that infomation in the introduction instead of a little not in the birth and death bracket, cheers. Chandlerjoeyross (talk) 21:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikimania 2010 could be coming to Stockholm!
I'm leaving you a note as you may be interested in this opportunity.

People from all six Nordic Wiki-communities (sv, no, nn, fi, da and is) are coordinating a bid for Wikimania 2010 in Stockholm. I'm sending you a message to let you know that this is occurring, and over the next few months we're looking for community support to make sure this happens! See the bid page on meta and if you like such an idea, please sign the "supporters" list at the bottom. Tack (or takk), and have a wonderful day! Mike H. Fierce! 08:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Medal record box
Oh yes the medal record label up there. didnt notice that. Well is it possible to create a seperate box just like the medal record holders for the sportsmen who havent won any yet? Karabinier (talk) 13:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just creating the articles and then going to fix the small errors there. Give me a minute or 2...

Olympics
Looking forward to the Olympics? I wonder what an impact the pollution will have on the distance runners. ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      "Talk"? 10:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am looking forward, but think of the workload! :) I follow not only athletics, but many of the team sports, water sports, fighting sports and more. Don't care for baseball, tennis, sailing or equestrianism. I was in Beijing two years ago and although the city was indeed heavily polluted, the runners seemed to produce good results (some race walkers collapsed due to the heat). But it's different now, since in the Olympics there are road events, plus the new stadium is located closer to the city centre. Punkmorten (talk) 12:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice job on them. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 14:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes 10,000 athletes to keep track of is huge. Not to mention all the different stages of events that will be covered on here. Never been to China, only Hong Kong, but China is developing at a frightening rate. Britains best medal hopes I think are in boxing and rowing. I was watching Michael Johnson speaking earlier and he reckons the US olympic team is a lot weaker than it has been in decades and that China stand a strong chance of winning the highest number of medals. I always like watching the athletics, swimming/diving and the power lifting the most – equestrianism does my head in too. ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      "Talk"? 17:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Very few people seem interested in the canoeing unfortunately. I had to start most of the competitors in the mens slalom canoeing because they were missing for 2008. They are still olympic medalists though!! The canoeing is quite fun to watch, the worst events have to be the equestrian, the clay pigeon shooting and sailing  ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 22:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you don't want to create canoe bios (my interpretation of the words "had to start"), you could always leave that to me. I have created plenty recently Punkmorten (talk) 22:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh no thats not what I meant. I don't mind creating them at all. When I said "had to start" I didn't mean grudgingly, rather a surprise that some top athletes in their field were missing from wikipedia thats all! ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      "Talk"? 11:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. Could you help start many of the red linked weightlifters at the olympics. I watched the 77 kg mens yesterday and we only have like 3 or 4 of them on here, cheers  ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 14:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I can look into it. Punkmorten (talk) 14:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to get some done tonight. I can see you have a huge amount to do already with athletics  The Bald One      White cat 18:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Luis Miguel del Risco
I have removed the prod tag from Luis Miguel del Risco, which you proposed for deletion. I am leaving this message here to notify you about it. The article states that me has made three appearances for Milonarios, which would appear to satisfy WP:FOOTYN If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the prod template back to it. Instead, feel free to list the article at Articles for deletion. Thanks! Cynical (talk) 16:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Rodkleiva
Hi there :) Figure you know everything on sports, so I'd ask you—a new user added Rodkleiva to Ski flying hills. Can't say I have heard about this, so is this really a certain plan, or just speculations? Happy Olympics. Arsenikk (talk)  19:46, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hehe. It should be Rødkleiva – . The creator should've known what he was writing about... Punkmorten (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Anders Gåsland
An article that you have been involved in editing, Anders Gåsland, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Anders Gåsland. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Athletes
Hello old friend. :) Thank you for proposed help, much appreciated! I'll just finish women's 10,000 m and go sleep. I am sad to observe there are only a few users active in categorisation of Olympic sportspeople. Every day I add categories to min. 100 articles of various sports, because users don't feel the need to update them. I noticed now tennis players are without "Tennis players at the 2008 Summer Olympics" or "Olympic tennis players of XY" categories. Oh gosh, more work for me next days. :( Help with hundreds of athletes articles will be like salvation. :) – Darwinek (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right but don't worry about the results pages. In most cases results are here quickly. I bet athletics is so popular it will be even quickier. Just several today's disciplines like weightlifting still lack final results but I believe others will fix it tomorrow. Problems you identified are true, another one are disambigs. There are many athletes with ordinary names like e.g. Mike Brown and fresh editors don't bother to disambiguate them. This situation creates many false blue links in results pages when proper article doesn't even exists. - Darwinek (talk) 22:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Bolt
9.69 is ridiculously quick isn't it. Did you see him at the 8 second mark? He took his foot off the gas and practically danced across the line in celebration and still ran under 9.7. I remember when 9.85 was the record for a long time. I wonder if anyone will ever go under 9.50 secs The Bald One      <small style="color:Black;">White cat 15:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * He didn't even try after the 80 metre line. Awesome. However Olaf Tufte was more awesome :) Punkmorten (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm loving these olympics. I've never seen so many world records broken. Most of the swimming records are being shattered. The Bald One     <small style="color:Black;">White cat 16:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC) I've added the tables for the first round at Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Women's 400 metre hurdles. Is this OK? The Bald One     <small style="color:Black;">White cat 14:57, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if referenced. Punkmorten (talk) 16:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure 1.88m is the correct height for Asbel Kiprop? I watched the 1500 m final earlier and the guy is huge – very lanky -he stood out form a distance. I'd say he was more like 1.96m. Perhaps he has grown? P.S good to see Bolt joggin the final 100 m of his 200 m heats. Lets hope he tries his fastest in the final. The Bald One     <small style="color:Black;">White cat 17:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

don't make the assumption that other adminsalways do it right.
You might have done well to check for yourself at Articles for deletion/Shinichi Kitaoka DGG (talk) 04:57, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you check the edit history, you'll notice that I wrote "r" in the edit summary (which means reply), not "d" which means delete. I stand by my statement. Punkmorten (talk) 08:14, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm
And no one noticed it for a year! Conscious (talk) 17:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Tag
You've obviously been here long enough that you should know better than to remove a notability tag using the revert button without making any comment at all. So, if you can, please edit the article to reflect why this 18th century clergyman is notable. Exploding Boy (talk) 22:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Since you introduced a spelling error to the article, and the tag was unjustified, I reverted. The article already asserts notability, it says that he was bishop for 27 years. If you disagree, please take it straight to AFD instead of wasting time. Punkmorten (talk) 22:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I didn't edit the article at all. I've looked at the revision history, and that spelling change wasn't mine.   At any rate, does the mere fact of being a bishop make a person notable?  I'm not "wasting time," as you put it, I'm simply following the standard procedure.  Exploding Boy (talk) 22:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peder_Christian_Hersleb_Kjerschow&diff=232567655&oldid=232567396 Actually, you did edit the article]. And tagging minute-old articles by established users is questionable. As for sources, the article already includes many and one can't excpect that many sources to be available online. The article would be kept at AFD, I don't really bother nominating it myself, but since lack of notability is a reason for deletion, perhaps you'd like to try or will you have a hard time justifying the deletion of the article? Punkmorten (talk) 23:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * As I explained, I know it appears that way, but I didn't edit the article except to add the tag. Additionally, I didn't initially realize you were an established user because your article was not auto-patrolled; it appeared highlighted in yellow on the new articles list, which is why I checked it in the first place.


 * I must say, I find your behaviour a little tendentious, particularly for an admin. I tagged the article per the guidelines at WP:NOTE, which you may wish to review.  I see nothing in your most recent edit (in which you once again removed the tag) that demonstrates the subject's notability.  Being related to a Prime Minister doesn't confer notability, and I'm not convinced that the mere fact of being a bishop does either.  Since the conversation between us is clearly going nowhere, I will nominate the article for deletion, so that a decision can be made as to this person's notability.  Exploding Boy (talk) 23:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

For your information, and if you'd like to be involved in the discussion: Articles for deletion/Peder Christian Hersleb Kjerschow. Thanks. Exploding Boy (talk) 23:31, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In case you miss it due to multiple edits, I have added the following to the AFD page:


 * "I certainly don't suggest that his relationship with a famous person should be counted against him, but I wish you had (a) said all this before, and (b) added it to the article when you were first asked about notability. That would have solved the issue at the tag stage without the need to bring it here. Based on the above I will withdraw my nomination for deletion at this time, with a request for Punkmorten to add the relevant information to the article. "


 * Exploding Boy (talk) 00:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Shavit 2
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Shavit 2, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA Zack Holly Venturi (talk) 23:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "What wikipedia is not"? . Do you think he doesn't know? I am tired of these nominations aren't you Morten. I keep having valid images thrown at me too and its doing my nut every time I log in to see another deleltion proposal.  The Bald One      <small style="color:Black;">White cat 19:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, certainly. There was a period where someone would slap speedy tags on my articles ever so often. Needless to say, they never succeeded. Some even said sorry. See also my user page for articles that survived AFD. As for this particular article, I did not even write any of it! Punkmorten (talk) 19:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL. This stub is a stub.. You can help wikipedia by expanding it. DIdn't know stub was a surname! The Bald One     <small style="color:Black;">White cat 07:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Savva Lika and Mirela Manjani
Hi, I wonder why did you revert their albanian names. Mirela Manjani is the current record-holder of Albania in javellin and both of them have dual citizienship, albanian and greek. According to Manual of Style (biographies), they should have Albanian names too. Thanks.balkanian (talk) 15:11, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Mirela Manjani's Albanian name is Mirela Manjani. We don't put up the same name twice – out of the question. Savva Lika's Albanian name was moved to the text body. Punkmorten (talk) 15:14, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to Manual of Style (biographies) Sava Lika`s name should be in the lead. balkanian (talk) 16:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Athletics
Hey, thanks for your message and yes I understand what you are saying, so I hope I won't forget it in the future and I see what I can do to add it to the ones where I didn't add that link so far. I see you are working on a lot of articles too. Sorry for asking, but I have no clue what DYK is? Thanks, Amanda  T / C  09:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice and pretty interesting, although I doubt if I will think of nominating articles for that feature in the future :) It's a good thing you are around to give it a check though. Amanda  T / C  12:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Per Inge Torkelsen
Hi Punkmorten,

I translated one of the articles that you requested, Per Inge Torkelsen, and was wondering if you would proofread it? There are a couple things that I wasn't really sure about, most notably a good translation for "Gi ungdommen en flaske brennevin før idretten tar dem" that English speakers would understand. SteveJothen 00:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK notice x2
And another one!

re: Kjeld Stub Irgens
Hey, that's great Morten. I've just been going through Norsk Krigsleksikon the last few days and added refs to Wikipedia articles where there were none. Really nice work on expanding that article. I'm going to have a look at it and see if there's anything more that needs doing. Keep up the grand work. Manxruler (talk) 11:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Here his parents have gone to the trouble of giving him the name Stub [sic.], and you come along and de-stub his article ;) But keep up the good work on all these weirdos from our heritage. <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  14:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How did you like what I did with the article while you were away? Manxruler (talk) 10:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good that. Punkmorten (talk) 11:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Owusu Afriyie
Hearts of Oak 	 2006–2007  	  	  -  	  -

UD Melilla (II) 	2005–2006 		5 	0

CD Linares 	2005–2006 		- 	-

SV Feldkirchen 	2004–2005 		26 	6

SV Feldkirchen 	2003–2004 		3 	0

Hearts of Oak 	2003 		- 	-

Hearts of Oak 	2002 		- 	-

Hearts of Oak 	2001 	Loan 	- 	-

Málaga CF 	2000–2001 		1 	0

Desportivo Chaves 	1999–2000 		19 	1

Málaga CF 	1998–1999 		7 (5) 	0

CD Badajoz 	1997–1998 		17 	1

Real Sportive 	1996–1997 		- 	-

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 15:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Kari Sørheim
On your article on the above politician you refer to Kari as she and he. I can't find a ref to check that is in English, would you mind correcting the article and removing the ambiguity? Ta! Sabine's Sunbird  talk  05:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Norway-newspaper-stub
Hi – I see you have recently created one or more new stub types. I could be wrong and it was proposed somewhere on WSS/P, but I can't for the life of me find any mention of it. In any case, a category seems a little premature, given the likely number of stubs. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The likely number of stubs, do you mean 108? He he. Well, there is always a time and place for WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY. Punkmorten (talk) 09:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Rolf Ingvar Semmingsen
A tag has been placed on Rolf Ingvar Semmingsen requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. <b style="color:#8080ff;">  SIS </b>  12:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself". I'd think an admin would know that. <b style="color:#8080ff;">  SIS </b>  12:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is the job of an admin to decline frivolous speedy tags, regardless of who wrote it. Punkmorten (talk) 12:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting interpretation. <b style="color:#8080ff;">  SIS </b>  13:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Cameroon stubs
Nice work with your Cameroon town stubs. But could you please add Infobox Settlement to them? Your friend Eddy of the wiki[citation needed] 20:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The 25 DYK Medal
Thanks! Actually I'm not too far from 50. Lampman (talk) 12:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Maria Arredondo
Hello!

Do you have a source for "The name Arredondo comes from her Chilean stepfather." ?? Please answer, it's important.--87.78.158.99 (talk) 21:39, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This . Punkmorten (talk) 07:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much!!! Takk--87.79.189.41 (talk) 22:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Secret Love (JoJo song)
The result was "RESULT"? :) --Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Photos of Irgens.
Hey, Morten. Check out what Irgens looked like. Manxruler (talk) 15:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. It was fun. Good thing we got one that one. I think that's one of the main points of Wikipedia, to provide info on those lesser known people and things in the world. Manxruler (talk) 18:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Nereo Champagne
Hi, I wouldn't create an article for this guy myself, he's not proven anything, If I've ever seen him play a game he did nothing noticable. I just came across the article so fixed it up to the minimum standard I try to enforce for Argentine footballers. There are not many great sources for south American footballers. BDFA are subscription so I don't generally use them for links. BDFA mentions 2005 Argentina U-20. He is included in the 2005 FIFA World Youth Championship squads squad, but that doesn't really count as a source. According to FIFA he has never actually played a game in any FIFA tournament. ESPN are usually good for basic stats but his height seems a little alarming here. I should have noticed him 616ft is big even for a goalkeeper:) E  P  22:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Transport and Communications equated with Labour
In [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Str%C3%B8mmens_V%C3%A6rksted&curid=16203276&diff=241869397&oldid=216411483 this edit] you add as a wikilink Minister of Labour. I can't see how Transport and Communications can ever be equated with Labour. Could this be a simple mistake or do you want to elaborate? __meco (talk) 08:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It may sound strange, but the latter is in fact a direct successor of the former. Punkmorten (talk) 09:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I suspected as much, however, to readers this will appear somewhat inconsistent, so this should be noted somewhere. __meco (talk) 10:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

you, sir, are an asshole
In Articles for deletion/EasyMOD, you said, at 08:56, 26 September 2008, "I am disregarding this opinion, as it is incomprehensible". You then, less than a minute later, closed the AfD, preventing me from clarifying.

If you don't understand something, ask or hold your tongue. To attack and then block the best outlet I have for defending myself is, if nothing else, a violation of WP:CIVIL. It also seriously calls into question your qualifications as an admin.

In any event..

I know, I know... as in the case of Habari, benefit of the doubt ought to be given on the basis that the about page states "articles and subject areas sometimes suffer from significant omissions", but that was bullshit then and it's bullshit now. (emphasis mine)

What part of "if [the about page states "articles and subject areas sometimes suffer from significant omissions" argument] was bullshit, you would have won. that you didn't [win the AfD] should be proof enough for anyone that [the afore mentioned argument] isn't [bullshit]" do you not understand?

What's incomprehensible about that? If something you try doesn't work, don't try the same thing – try something else. But that's not what Misterdiscreet did – he tried the same damn thing.

But, then again, why should I expect anything better from you? WP:CIVIL is obviously incomprehensible to you (if you did comprehend it, you wouldn't have violated it) as are my own comments. It does beg the question, though – what else is incomprehensible to you?

Never-the-less, your response will determine if I report your WP:CIVIL violation to Wikiquette alerts. Thank you 85.17.45.118 (talk) 16:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * First, let me ask you this: you do know that Articles for deletion are normally closed after five days, right? Punkmorten (talk) 19:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, you should have just held your tongue. Attacking me in a venue where I was unable to defend myself, regardless of the circumstances, was highly inappropriate. 85.17.45.118 (talk) 20:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand that the choice of word in that situation could be seen as antagonistic and somewhat derogatory. I apologize for that – not because the word could be seen as such, but because someone (you) indeed saw it that way, and I should have taken that into account when writing something. Punkmorten (talk) 12:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Oddny Aleksandersen
Not a fascinating character exactly, hard to find anything interesting. Perhaps the fact that she was the third minister to hold that post in three years, all of whom were women? I don't normally nominate articles I haven't written, however, so I'm gonna leave that to you. Lampman (talk) 11:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
Those two pictures are more tricky than Irgens'. The first seems to be a painting, thereby a "work of art". Works of art have different copyright terms than ordinary photos. The second, being some kind of drawing, might or might not count as a work of art, I'm not sure. I suggest you look at this page on Commons for the info you need. Good luck. Manxruler (talk) 11:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * See also Copyright Norway on Commons. Manxruler (talk) 11:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Samir Ibrahim Zedan: your attitude

 * Irrelevant – why should scholars write about this person when he only has one credit? You want someone else to dig up sources that don't exist. Irresponsible. By the way Norwegian media search yields one hit, back in 2000]. Punkmorten (talk) 10:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that you should consider being more courteous in your dealings with other users. How am I to know that other sources don't exist? How, indeed, do you know that they don't exist? I suspect that what you mean is that they aren't available on the internet. Sometimes finding sources involves a trip to a library. It is not irresponsible to suggest that somebody else ought to carry out research which one is not oneself capable of carrying out. That is why scholars collaborate. We can't all do everything. I do not read Norwegian, Arabic, or Kurdish, so cannot read the majority of sources emmanating from Norway or Iraq. Do you read Arabic and Kursish? According to your user page you don't. He may well have only one credit. A more important consideration is the significance of his work.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 11:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about this: sometimes in Wikipedia, people find it opportune to leave the real work to others. However, while people might speculate all they want, when no sources are put on the table it does fail WP:N. Regarding this particular case: Considering that the person in question lives in Norway, and his film was titled in Norwegian, you'd expect Norwegian sources to exist, but they didn't. And why all this talk about scholars? Punkmorten (talk) 19:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I never leave the real work to others. This should be evident from that number of articles I have created myself and the huge effort I have put into expanding others. Sometimes, however, one lacks the ability to undertake a particular task, whether because one has insufficient academic training or because one lacks technical expertise. That is how Wikipedia is supposed to work: people collaborate, each contributing their own skills. Possibly the case under discussion ought to have been deleted. I was merely suggesting that it be kept so that people better informed than me, and even better informed than you, could have a chance to gather sources of which we were unaware. One would indeed expect Norwegian sources to exist, but since the person in question is an Iraqi one would also expect his work to have received critical attention in Iraqi sources, to which neither you nor I have access as we do not possess the skill of reading either of the official languages of Iraq. I use the word 'scholars' because surely that is what Wikipedia aspires to being: a work of scholarship, although in most cases of course it fails to attain that standard. I do not understand why you feel the need to be so aggressive and rude. Most people here are able to take part in a courteous discussion; so far you appear to be unable to do that. You come across in this way here and here, while here somebody else has taken issue with your manner, admittedly in a way that is very rude.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 10:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You have been active on Wikipedia since my last contribution on this page. Presumably you wish to ignore my just criticism of your conduct.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 13:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, but I have read it – and taken it on board. I will do my best as to conduct no objectionable behavior in the future. The discussion on Samir Ibrahim Zedan, on the other hand, I don't find interesting to pursue. Punkmorten (talk) 13:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

NSB
An idea that I want some feedback on: As you might know, prior to 1. December 1996 NSB was a government agency; at that time it was split into three: the Rail Administration, Norges Statsbaner BA (later to become an AS) and the inspectorate. So, when referring to NSB prior to 1996, the English name should be used, while when referring to it after 1996 the Norwegian name should be used, since the new company is no longer an agency, but a company with a brand name. Does this sound logical? Part of the reasoning is that on no.wikipedia they have split the NSB article into two: no:Norges statsbaner (1883–1996) and no:Norges statsbaner (fra 1996), just like there are two articles on the Swedish SJ: Statens Järnvägar and SJ AB. Should we be doing the same on en with the articles Norges Statsbaner (new) and the Norwegian State Railways (old)? Technically the "old NSB" became the Rail Administration and then the inspectorate and the "new NSB" were demerged, though the latter took the name with it. <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  12:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan. Punkmorten (talk) 19:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

PeanutButterWiki
Hi Punkmorten. You deleted the PeanutButterWiki article after closing Articles for deletion/PeanutButterWiki. I believe the topic is notable, but the article was rubbish at the time. I have created a new draft, which you can see at User:Fish and karate/pbwiki. Would you have any objection to my moving this into article space? Thanks. I've also left a message with the AFD nominator (User:Rootology). <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#28c">fish &<u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#D33">karate 10:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look bad, but I don't know. I didn't really have an opinion on the article at that time, just performed a bureaucratic task. Punkmorten (talk) 10:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I will take that as a firm "whatever". Thanks! <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#28c">fish &<u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#D33">karate  11:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably best to move page in, then have a new debate on it. Punkmorten (talk) 11:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've moved it; if anyone wants to start a new debate, they can do so. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#28c">fish &<u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#D33">karate 12:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Brage Prize
Hei! Just took a shot at translating Translation/Brage Prize. It appears we've gotten dramatically more complex in our management of the translation process since the last time I did one of these translations. Any chance you can coach me on how one updates the form?

And as a wry side observation, it should not be harder to figure out how to complete the status form than to perform the translation. Perhaps we've overdone it.

Skål – Williamborg (Bill) 05:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Things have changed over the past 1-2 years. The site is more mature, in a way. Citing sources is more stressed, which is good. Quantity is still important, but quality prevails in a new way. There are more DYKs every day, the number of passed FACs is up from about 5 to about 30 a week, FLs have gone through the roof, probably GAs as well. New measures are taken to standardize – the translation process is one of them, albeit one of the less important. I wouldn't worry too much about getting it correct, you seem to have fixed it and, most importantly: we now have a decent article about the topic. Punkmorten (talk) 10:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I thank you for the nice job of cleaning up behind me. I did get rather sloppy – for example "og" reads perfectly and didn't seem to need translation when I post-read my translation – ah well. That is one of the strengths of teh Wikpedya – we get by with a little help from our friends/co-editors.


 * I agree with your observation that the site is more mature. These days when I google a topic, the Wikipedia is as likely as not to have the most substantial and useful information. It still suffers from seriously overblown and confusing articles as well, but is making progress.


 * Skål – Williamborg (Bill) 21:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Riksrett
I found one place (think it was the list of prime ministers) where someone (I simply presumed it was you) had called riksrett for High Court of the Realm. Do you know if this is the official name for it? I was calling it impeachment due to the interwikis between English and Norwegian. Anyway, High Court of the Realm is a lot cooler name than impeachment, so I was kind of hoping that was the official term. It sounds so epic—like a court where the gods would battle at over their influence on kingdoms or whole races. <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  18:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi! I happen to agree, although I don't know if I was the person behind the term. I asked the convenient service Biblioteksvar (excellent use of taxpayer money), who replied:

Riksrett Court of Impeachment

COMMENT: Riksrett has traditionally been translated as the "Constitutional Court of the Realm", however "Court of Impeachement" is a far better description of what the riksrett actually is and does. Furthermore, the expression "constitutional court" has a meaning in English that is similar to the role performed by the Norwegian Supreme Court (Høyesterett)

Kjelde: Craig, Ronald L. : Stor norsk-engelsk juridisk ordbok. Oslo 1999, s. 210.

Hope this helps, Punkmorten (talk) 11:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  18:19, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Anne Margrethe Strømsheim
Anne Margrethe Strømsheim should be ready for a DYK nom now. I did a little work on it just now. Manxruler (talk) 12:53, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Further work on the article now underway. Let's make it a co-nom. Manxruler (talk) 16:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The nomination has been made. Manxruler (talk) 17:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. :) I was just considering having a look at my personal library, I'm pretty sure that there should be some mention of her in a couple of my books. Manxruler (talk) 18:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * With regards to the free image thing, sure she wasn't exactly a celebrity or anything, but I'm willing to bet that someone took a photo of her at a conference or something. Or there might be a 50+ year old photo by a photographer that's been dead for more than 15 years lying around somewhere. But you're right, why ask when those empty image spaces do the talking on their own. Cheers. Manxruler (talk) 18:41, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Having now gone through my library and having found nothing new about Mrs. Strømsheim I have to agree fully with you, this article is the best source on her, barring the 1991 book. Manxruler (talk) 17:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Congrats. The DYK went through fine. As always, nice cooperating with you. Manxruler (talk) 04:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Good catch.
How could I forget Åland – the islands from where the Finns operated our M.F. 11s... Manxruler (talk) 19:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Sigh
This is a bit of a mess. It starts with Ekberg writing in to OTRS, urgently requesting that clarification and correction be made re: his behavior as a rebellious teenager. Yes, he was a skinhead when he was thirteen, and yes, he wore t-shirts with politically objectionable messages, but he was never a neo-Nazi. Not everyone bothers to make that distinction, but it's real and valid.

He also indicated factual errors in our article on the band that he and some friends started when they were thirteen; the simplest of these factual errors was that the band's name had always been spelled with a 'c', never an 's'. I felt that this would be a simple and unobjectionable pagemove, and one which could be dealt with prior to assessing the remainder of his statements; I'll grant that the rationale I used was not as detailed as it could have been.

After completing the pagemove (and taking care of some things offline), I carefully examined the article and the references supplied. I was quite dismayed to realize what a useless lump the article was. The article claimed that – instead of Ekberg and two friends – the band had consisted of Ekberg, two friends, and a man who later became a far-right white-power extremist politician; Ekberg is emphatic that this politician was never part of his band.

I also note that the politician was born 5 years earlier than Ekberg and his CS bandmates. Although such an age difference doesn't much matter when everyone is an adult, I feel it unlikely that a politically-active 18-year-old would join a band where everyone else is 13.

Next, we come to the album. The album whose sole and admitted raison d'etre is to call Ekberg a Nazi. CS never signed with a recording label or released any albums in the three years they were together. Where did the album come from? Well... it's from Flashback Media Group, and right there we have a problem. FMG is... they're notable, but they're also... shall we say, a less-than-reliable source of information. If they can make trouble, they will. Ekberg states that not only did CS not play those songs with the horribly racist lyrics, they didn't even play that genre of music: the alleged CS songs are hardcore rock, but Ekberg's group played synth pop. As a last detail, it seems that FMG founder Axelsson has quite an antipathy for Ekberg, possibly verging on malice. Any further assertions about the origin of the album – the photos of Ekberg are genuine, the music is not? - would be speculative.

So, the album's out. The politician's out. One of the members eventually became famous, but there really doesn't seem to be anything verifiable that goes for notability.

Once all the lies were cut away, there wasn't enough left for an article. So I deleted it. DS (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Stub tags
HI Morten. You may as well create the tags you proposed for 1740s and 1750s Norwegian politicians, seems there was a consensus for it. Blofeld of SPECTRE (talk) 22:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Halloween
OH yes! I will change the hook to ...his wife haunted the house after dying giving birth to his 8th child ... or something. Any chance of a picture of him, her or the house. I founmd a picture of the house which looks good but its not a free image. Also any extra detail on the haunting? OK if I move it? If not then move it back :-) cheers Victuallers (talk) 21:38, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts on: note that other wikipedias are not reliable sources
Hei Punkmorten!

Noted that you've removed the references to interwiki translations rather consistently on the basis that they don't meet WP:RS. I rather agree with you – interwikis as sources are variegated in their quality.

But I added them because I recalled – back in the ancient Wikipast when I used to do more translations – that they were preferred. So I went to look this morning to see if that old approach was still in the Wiki name-space lore (since Wiki rules change & I've been on hiatus), I didn't expect to find it). But, even in the Brownian motion of Wikipedia policy, it is still there.

Interwiki translation guidance is found in Citing sources/example style, which now appears to frown on quoting interwiki sites in translations, but none-the-less accommodates translations by providing a format and telling one to cite it as a reference. The germane text is quoted below:


 * "Wikipedia is not a reliable source. When you use an article from a different-language Wikipedia as a reference, it belongs in the reference section. Use an external link rather than an interwiki link to avoid an unnecessary self-reference:


 * "* Citau les fonts from the Catalan-language Wikipedia. Retrieved on December 27, 2004.


 * "If you are getting some or all of your references second-hand, because you translated all or part of an article from a different-language Wikipedia, you may want to start your reference section (or part of it) with something like this (from Paragraph 175):


 * "*Much of the content of this article comes from the equivalent German-language wikipedia article. Retrieved on September 30, 2004. The following references are cited by that German-language article:
 * "followed by a list of that different-language article's references."

I've translated an occasional Wikipedia article in over the past several years and have found quite a bit of variation among the various languages on wiki-policy – when I translated Spanish on South American articles, the conventions are rather different than when I translate Norwegian on Norway articles – variability is the nature of Wikipedia with the ever changing cast of contributors and the differences among interest groups. I don't have much energy on the correct approach across the board – I'm inclined toward inclusionism and am comfortable with a high degree of variability.

But I am willing to reach near-term agreement on how we’ll do things for WP:Norway. We can sort out the Wikiwide-Wikipolicy later.

Bottom line: How do you want to do this for translations from Norwegian – no acknowledgment of transwiki or Wikipedia:Citing_sources example style? And why?

Skål – Williamborg (Bill) 16:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's true that references to other Wikipedias were more common before. The GFDL license might be a factor here – in that a translation is a derivative work, so one should state the source of the text. Myself, I used to use de rather often. Recently however, I have taken to appreciate citations more. It's more helpful to readers. I don't follow this ideal at all times, but no-one's perfect.. I removed those references to Wikipedia because someone else did it on an article I wrote, and I agreed. It makes sense cf. our policies.
 * Now, as for the examples cited above. The first one (Citau les fonts) could be compared to any external link. It's there, it provides a link to an article which presumably contains some of the information used in the Wiki article. But it's difficult to know. It's like Mitja Brulc again. I supplied all the references I used in creating the article, but perhaps someone else adds more text. Or, if he goes to another club, they change the club because they read it somewhere, but Weltfussball doesn't necessarily pick it up. So all of a sudden you don't know what's what.
 * The second case is worse. "Much of the content of this article" is too vague, and "followed by a list of that different-language article's references" doesn't work because the other Wikipedias most often have inferior or no references. That's the main drawback. If we reference to another Wikipedia, that other Wikipedia ought to be referenced itself. There's gotta be a reference there, somewhere at the foundation. But if the Norwegian Wikipedia does link to a newspaper article, I'll prefer to use that newspaper article. They usually don't provide sources though. In that case, I'd say that a reference to an unreferenced work is not itself a reference. A case can be made, then, for removing it altogether.
 * This is not to say I haven't sinned. It was convenient, I trusted the No:wiki article in that case although it was unsourced. But we shouldn't do that as a rule. I'd be careful with allowing it in any guideline or policy. The policy should approach perfection. Editors, then, can and will follow that standard to different degrees, depending on several factors. Other editors can and will (hopefully) improve on this. Material can stay unsourced (unless BLP), because someone will fix it later.
 * Maybe I deviated somewhat from your question but the core is in there somewhere. Punkmorten (talk) 20:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Appreciate the thoughtful analysis. Thoughts as I read your comments follow:
 * Agree that a concrete reference or references (rather than a transwiki source) is always best, whenever available.
 * I’m perfectly good with foreign language references, but I’ve been “coached” in the past wikidiscussions that References requires: “Because this is the English Wikipedia, English-language sources should be given whenever possible...”
 * The motive for tagging things as transwiki is simple. I've observed that using interwiki references reduce the hassle that comes when the new page patrolees slap AfD tags on a page because they question the notability. I've lost a few articles that I thought actually had merit. And I have to waste all kinds of time watching recent translations to make sure they're not picked off. Heck, even the Norske Gaardnavne translation has me worried that someone might slap a notability tag on it – and it was a FA on the Nynorsk site. Early on I found that making the interwiki nature of the article obvious preempted many AfD challenges. And the ones that did get challenged, I was far more likely to grudgingly agree should be deleted.
 * So I'd happily agree to: a) find English Language links to reference where possible, b) use foreign language reeferences when none are available. & c) unless you intend to routinely delete it, to use the form "Much of the content of this article comes from the equivalent German-language wikipedia article retrieved on Novtember 32, 2020" as a standard feature.
 * I’ll sleep on this overnight, and check back here to see if you can live with it or need to help my thinking further. Hearing no objection, I'll blunder ahead...
 * Thanks – Williamborg (Bill) 23:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, well, point 3 is a point I hadn't thought of before. I guess one could argue for it as a necessary evil (or something less drastic than "evil"). Punkmorten (talk) 13:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Help
Hello Punkmorten, As you know, I have had a small discussion with User:Mikkalai that went as follows:

<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following text is an archived discussion. No further edits should be made to this section.

Deletion of fears
Greetings Mikkalai! I'm aware that you have suddenly deleted pithikosophobia, phasmophobia (now re-created), papaphobia, nomatophobia, cymophobia, amaxophobia and popdophobia without providing any rational or warning. Without any information about why these articles were deleted, I will assume that their deletion was in error, and may re-create them. Thank you for your time –  α Яβ ιτ Я α Я ι ŁΨθ  ( talk ) 11:25, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Deleting articles outright without proper discussion, and without even providing an edit summary? Punkmorten (talk) 15:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Mikkalai see here].  α Яβ ιτ Я α Я ι ŁΨθ  ( talk ) 20:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Feel free to fill wikipedia with garbage. `'Míkka>t 22:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I understand that Mikkilai is not interested in telling me exactly what was wrong with these articles. Nevertheless, I would still like to know why they were deleted. It seems one thing to be a deletionist, but another to irrationally delete articles. I was wondering if you had any input for me. Thanks for hearing me out,  α Яβ ιτ Я α Я ι ŁΨθ  ( talk ) 00:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * He did not provide any reason, but laid out some of his views on Brewcrewer's and his own talk page (section above your comments). It seems that he has had a hard time with such articles before, and while it may be true that Wikipedia shouldn't cover any thinkable phobia, there ought to be a discussion about it first. With these articles not falling under any speedy deletion criteria, he alone cannot judge the merit in that way. Punkmorten (talk) 13:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Kjell A. Storeide
A tag has been placed on Kjell A. Storeide, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. CSDWarnBot (talk) 17:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)