User talk:Ghmyrtle/Archive 14

I Violated Concepts???
The other day, on behalf of my good friend, John Gummoe, founder and lead singer of the Cascades, I removed the Wikipedia entry and replaced it with what John had written. We did this because of so many false statements in the article that was on Wikipedia. I received this message from you: I'm afraid that your edit, on behalf of Mr. Gummoe, contravened several of Wikipedia's core principles. I strongly suggest that you read some of the guidance on how to edit here, such as this on neutrality, this on conflicts of interest, this on the need for verifiable reliable sources to be used, and this on writing biographical articles about living people. As a general point, I suggest that you raise your concerns about the article first on the article talk page here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I would hope that Wikipedia's core principle would include having accurate information, not completely untrue stories, such as how Phil Spector named the group! By not allowing my edited version, you are perpetuating false information. I have never posted anything on Wikipedia, and am baffled by all the and other abbreviations. I am not a computer programmer. I have gone to the articles you referenced, and find them almost unintelligible.

If there is any way someone can work with me to eliminate all the falsehoods in your current posting and add the truth as stated by the leader of the group, he and I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

JoeyC2 (talk) 14:29, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

"::" Thanks very much for your prompt reply. I will see if I can follow your instruction on posting the disclaimers on the article's talk page. I am still not sure how to provide "verifiable sources" for my information. If by that you mean published articles, that is a problem. Just because something is published elsewhere does not mean it is correct. Again, my information is coming directly from John Gummoe, founder and lead singer of the Cascades. He wants to set the record straight on the history of his group, and asked me to post a new article he wrote (and I edited) that would have all the facts correct. I don't know how else to help you verify this and the facts in the article, other than having you deal with John directly. I am more than happy to put you in contact with him to make the necessary corrections, and I know that John would be greatly appreciative.

(JoeyC2 (talk) 16:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC))

Thanks for the welcome
Hello Ghmrytle

Thanks for the welcome. I had done some edits before signing up and finally decided I would stick at this for a while. I must admit it is quite addictive! Please let me know if you spot me making mistakes as I know I have a lot to learn. I expect that I'll probably edit on articles associated with British history as that is my main area of interest, but you never know! Spiritofstgeorge (talk) 11:29, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 July 2011
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Thankyou
For making the page Flamingo Club (London) Redheylin (talk) 00:24, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That thanks heartily endorsed. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys! It's very stubby, but there's not much online apart from passing references and commentary - all additions gratefully received! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:57, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Easy Beat (BBC radio)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Easy Beat (BBC radio), and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.easybeatproductions.com.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.

If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 22:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Bollocks - not the same thing at all! Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 July 2011
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Status of Regional Assemblies
Thanks for picking up the dead link in Regions of England - I should have checked. I have now found the working link from the National Archives site.

I thought it surprising too, which is why I added it. I picked it up from the article on the South East England Regional Assembly (there seem to be more dead links there, which I'll try and fix).--Mhockey (talk) 20:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I've amended your text - just because SEERA took that view, it doesn't necessarily mean that any or all of the others did. I'm not even sure if it's necessarily that interesting a point to be made, unless it was an issue that came up over some contentious matter.  If it didn't, isn't it verging on WP:OR to even raise it?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * True, other assemblies may have taken a different view, although they were presumably all set up in the same way. You and I both found it surprising - the fact that an "indirectly elected body" (per Regional assembly (England)) claimed not to be a public authority throws some light on the true nature of the bodies.  I'm not sure where the OR comes from - I just took some material from another WP article. --Mhockey (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The Assemblies were not set up identically - each one was pretty much self-determining (OR - I was seconded to one of them at one point), and I'm sure would have had its own legal advice, although there was some loose coordination between them in terms of policy and processes. Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of OR - the mention was added to the SEERA article by User:Biscuittin, but I don't know what prompted him/her to do so unless there was some controversy about it, which the article doesn't mention.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:11, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Church Cottage, Tutshill
Hello! Your submission of Church Cottage, Tutshill at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —Bruce1eetalk 11:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's currently in Queue 2, which means it should hit the Main page tomorrow at 09:00 (London time). How's that for service! —Bruce1eetalk 12:13, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That'll be just the 36 hours or so after I thought of writing the article, and less than 24 hours after I walked up there to take the picture. Thanks!!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:20, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Church Cottage, Tutshill
Gatoclass (talk) 08:02, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Are Electoral Wards really "places"?
Hi there Gh. I was just wondering if you had any view on this recent edit? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, don't worry, they have taken a little advice and it all looks much better now. (New Mexico!?) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Their primary mission is to develop, engineer, and test the non-nuclear components of nuclear weapons....." I've heard people make some comments about Newport, but it's not that bad, surely.....   Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:43, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hahaha. My word, how bizarre is the wikiscape. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 July 2011
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Gallivanting
We're off again. "Eeh, we don't like cricket, oh no, we love it" at Headingley for the Roses Match, then to Llangollen for a stop-over to watch more willow on leather at Colwyn Bay. You will probably not be in the least interested, but the great Sir Viv signed my floppy cricket hat at that ground in 1992. This will be the first time I've been back to the venue since then. Returning to editing on 26 July. Hope you are well.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:30, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The Cenotaph, Whitehall
Thanks for adding the Allan Greenberg reference here. I had suggested that on the talk page (see Talk:The Cenotaph, Whitehall), and was wondering whether you had seen that suggestion, or just came to the page without seeing what I'd said on the talk page? If you have a full copy of the Greenberg reference, would you be able to check the bit about who suggested the words "The Glorious Dead", as there has been some confusion on this. Also, does Greenberg say anything about the 1946 unveiling by King George VI after the dates of the Second World War were added? I'm leaving this note here, but probably best to reply on the talk page about anything concerning the article. Carcharoth (talk) 06:28, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll comment there if I find any more relevant information, but it's not an area I have any particular expertise in. I'd gone to the article during a brief exchange at the Ref Desk here, during which a comment was made about the text.  I looked into it quickly, found the Greenberg snippet view, and tweaked the text accordingly - so, no, I didn't see your talk page comment beforehand, and I don't have access to the full text.  If I do find anything relevant, I'll report back there.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. Thanks. I was at the Cenotaph the other day and took photos. I had seen the pictures of Gilmour swinging from the flags and I decided against seeing how easy it is to do that. It is a bit of a pain waiting for the traffic jams to clear to take unobstructed photos, though. When you see it on television, the road is closed to traffic. Seeing it with traffic on either side is a bit less inspiring, though it still has a certain presence. Carcharoth (talk) 07:45, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking at your comments, and my search results, I don't think I'll have any more information to add beyond what you have already seen. Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:47, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Probably a good move...
Let's hope it sticks... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:27, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 July 2011
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RE: Standells
Hello Ghmyrtle: I am a acquantence of Mr. Tamblyn's and merely corrected some grave errors such has replacing present members with past members of the group. Also, several venues and locations were skewed. I also think that someone using the moniker Standells66 is misleading, leading certain people to the conclusion that this WAS written by a member of the Standells. The references to Facebook are anecdotal, i.e., photos, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Larbabe (talk • contribs) 00:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

RE: Standells: "At least one of your recent edits, such as the edits you made to The Standells, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed."
The non-constructive edits were made by the person uses the name "Wwwhatsup", in which I seemed to have assumed the blame. I have spent considerable time in correcting his (or her) edits, which lacked references, and were based upon personal opinion, mostly non-constructive. I am merely trying to present an unbiased and factual history of the Standells. Every edit I made has been supported by numerous references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chizoom (talk • contribs) 22:29, 14 August 2011

The Standells
Hi Ghmyrtle: It does appear that there has been a lot of heated discussion on this subject, and I think you've done a good job in weeding it all out. However, I still have a problem with the terminology "ongoing legal dispute". To my understanding, it infers that a matter has been or is in the process of being legally adjudicated. I can find no reference to any former members of the Standells legally disputing the name and or the trademark. In fact, the only dispute seems to come from Standells66. Who is he? He really seems to have an ax to grind. I did do some reading up on the process for trademark and it is quite extensive. The entire procedure takes close to a year to complete. There is also a period in which it can be challenged. You can read about it here. By all indications, no one challenged the trademark, otherwise Tamblyn wouldn't have received it. One other small thing; there is no Wikipedia reference to "Cavestomp". Sorry to be such a pain in the arse. Once again, I appreciate the job your doing! Sixtyfix (talk) 17:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've removed the word "legal" - there is an ongoing dispute, but you're right that there's no evidence that it's a "legal dispute". Re Cavestomp, there's no difficulty in having a WP:REDLINK - it simply means that an article has not yet been created.  In this case, there are likely to be plenty of sources, so someone could start one quite easily.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems you're on top of things, and completely unbiased. I was glad to see that a certain individual was blocked. I noticed that you or somebody referred to the early Starlighters, as including Valentino, Lanny Duncan, and Benny King, using the reference of Chuck Burgess' book Love That Dirty Water.... I happen to have the book, and actually on page 55 it states that Benny King was not part of the group until it became Larry Tamblyn and Standells, right before they went to Hawaii. If you need me to do any more research for you, please let me know. Sixtyfix (talk) 15:00, 05 September 2011 (UTC)

UK Countries' infoboxes
Hi there. It's OK to restore the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom's entry in the infoboxes but I can't see any problems with the other entries that I made (e.g. adding the Deputy First Minister and Secretary of State for Scotland entries to the Scotland infobox). I have left the Prime Minister entry be but I've made some edits to them just to restore the parts that were deleted. Thanks. JAU123. JAU123 (talk) 15:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Pay no heed to the inclusion of the deputies that I have made, these entries have been discussed many a time, but they are regarded as major heads of government so I am inclined just to include them, until any suitable reason for their exclusion have been brought to the discussion groups. Thanks. JAU123. JAU123 (talk) 16:00, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 August 2011
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Great work on origins of rock and roll
Ghmyrtle, as a major compiler and contributor to the First rock and roll record I'd like to congratulate you on your thoughtful and creative work in incorporating that piece into a larger and more complete survey Origins of rock and roll. I don't contribute to Wikipedia any more (except for markup fixes) because I don't like getting angry, but nothing about your work here caused my gorge to rise. Usually people who have followed up on my Wikipedia work destroy flavor under the excuse of excising "original research". Granted the style of Wikipedia has changed from my day (It was still wikipedia.com when I started) I'm just glad my work on this subject survived your great improvements. Best wishes, Ortolan88 (talk) 03:35, 4 August 2011 (UTC) Tom Parmenter
 * Thanks for your comments, and I'm sorry you're not around here any more. Granted, it does get more and more of a struggle for all of us, as power bases become entrenched and the hard core become less and less tolerant of new contributors and the more flexible approach some of us wish to see.  So far as that article's concerned, I hope it's educational, but it's certainly a very very very long way from being perfect - really, it's a cobbling together of a lot of people's different perspectives.  But I hope it's a useful contribution to the sum of human knowledge, and I'm grateful for your words of encouragement!  Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:15, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Rock Machine I Love You


The article Rock Machine I Love You has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * non-notable comp

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:40, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of The Rock Machine Turns You On


The article The Rock Machine Turns You On has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * non-notable comp. Assertions of notability are made, but not substantiated. Google shows nothing special.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 August 2011
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Non-free rationale for File:Moore wildb completer 101b.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Moore wildb completer 101b.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 19:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

West Country
Given that the user making the noise in the West Country article has been permanently blocked, and that the IP address used by the editor previously is also blocked, I would suggest that the whole discussion is taken with a huge pinch of salt. Just my US$0.02! --Simple Boba.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 15:56, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Photo
Can I ask if you used Wikimedia Commons to upload your wigwam picture to your userpage ? It looks hellishly complicated to me, but frankly I am not familiar with images, uploading thereof, jpeg files, GNU Free Documentation Licence etc. Is there an easy way without incurring general Wiki wrath ? Thanks,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:19, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I just uploaded it here. If it's your own work, there's no problem in doing it at all.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:56, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 August 2011
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Welsh county histories
I have now made several passes through the ODNB; and not that much comes up in the way of older antiquarian histories. Monmouthshire, and early nineteenth century works on Brecknockshire and Pembrokeshire, is what I have seen. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Knowle West, Bristol
Hi Guy. I have nominated this article for peer review at Peer review/Knowle West, Bristol/archive1 as I would like to take it to WP:FAC, having got it to GA last month. Any comments that would help achieve this will be most welcome. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Welsh castle lists
Hi, just wondered what the point is in reverting "hoax-castle vandalism" from the list but adding it to the talk page, where convention says that your comments remain unaltered - isn't this just publicising the vandalism and letting them win? Just a thought. BencherliteTalk 12:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in stopping people from looking at the site - that's not my business - simply in ensuring that future WP editors are aware of its nature. Incidentally, a lot of other sites have the site as a link - presumably they are not aware that it's a hoax.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 August 2011
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UK Largest Cities by Population
Your population figures are really not accurate!! most of the ones i changed them to are from the 2011 census (which have started being released) Honestly your page is incorrect and you need to update it to the actual populations. How often do you check them? Birmingham has been over 1million for a few years and London is nearly 8million (7.8) your page is not fact. Thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karl1587  (talk • contribs) 14:17, 25 August 2011

The Signpost: 29 August 2011
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re "Idiot"
It wasn't really about you, I was trying to coax a little civility out of him. Now I don't know whether or not he's seen it, so I don't know whether or not to block him again. Actually it's looking if it's probably best for us both to just ignore him: reverts and standard warnings where appropriate. I'm sure we've both got more valuable things to do. —S MALL JIM   14:13, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite. By the way, last week I came across this, for £1.99 - lots of information which I haven't yet used.  Worth the money though!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:18, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a coincidence - I just looked at the ref to that in Pasty before making my last edit! I look forward to seeing what you can make of it. I bought The Little Book of the Pasty last week: somewhat useful, but not such good value... There's a definite shortage of decent early reference material on the subject: the same facts seem to just circulate from one source to another with no discernible foundation in fact. —S MALL  JIM   14:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 September 2011
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Graham Bond Re-Organisation
That went smoothly. Thanks for doing the move - it's always nice to get out of a bit of work, even a tiny bit!! Still amused that I'd never noticed after all these years. In retrospect, I agree amalgamating the page isn't right - the band is important enough in their own right, even if they didn't sell much. I'll root out that Record Collector and give the page a good going over shortly. Thanks again. Brieflysentient (talk) 07:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 September 2011
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Nantgarw References
Hi.

Thanks for your comments.

I've had some help from one particular user and I think that the references are in a much better state now. It's also clearer that I have consulted authoritative sources in my research, the youtube links were meant to help when I was describing the appearences of the dances, I'd no idea that they were so frowned upon (steep learning curve here).

But I just wanted to thank you and wondered if you would cast an eye over Nantgarw tradition again to see if you agree that the references have been sorted.

Much obliged,

Tabulabells (talk) 14:43, 15 Sept 2011 (GMT)

p.s. Thanks for the further suggestions. I've acted on them all.

Tabulabells (talk) 16:45, 15 Sept 2011 (GMT)

T.V. Slim
I was half thinking of doing an article on this R&B/country blues singer. Did he have a national R&B hit with "Flat Foot Sam" (1957) ? I presume he was a one-hit wonder and perhaps he is on your lengthy 'to do list'. Any thoughts, when you have a minute. Thanks,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:24, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't a hit on the R&B chart. I assume you've discovered this source already - it's run by User:StefanWirz who may have more information himself, but anyway the original sleevenotes in the images on that page will probably be of interest.  The #103, in relation to "Flat Foot Sam", is the label number not a chart placing (the R&B chart was only a Top 20 at that time anyway).   Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. Stefan's pages are a source of wonderment to me - he must have spent years putting them together.  Actually, I have used them often in the past for the more obscure blues articles I have penned, but never thought it might stretch beyond that to R&B people.  Pretty obvious the more I think about it, it is a rather blurred line between the two genres.  Anyhow, the lack of chart activity leaves T.V. Slim as non-notable in my book, or at best borderline, so I will save my puny efforts for someone else.  Cheers,


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk)
 * Oh, go on, go on. Go on now.  Go on.  You will write the article.  Go on now.... (etc. etc. ad infinitum).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:04, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes, yes, yes... No. You will have me shot ! I know I sail pretty close to the wind with most of my obscure blues articles, but notability must prevail.  T.V. Slim does not really match any of the twelve criteria.  I am far more ignore all rules school than conformist, but what with the copyvio stuff and three bollockings in the last six weeks, phew, I am on eggshells. Yworo, Lexein and Beloved Freak - I think I've stumbled on to the set of Harry Potter or Star Wars ! For creation of a new article, then Ron Thompson looks a safer bet, but what do I know.


 * Yorkshire are relegated... bad enough, but bloody Lancashire have won the Championship !! I thought last week at least, by way of some consolation, that I might see cricket next season at Lord's and The Oval.  Then I discover Middlesex and Surrey are promoted to Division One, so that is not going to happen either.  I know you do not follow such things, but it is akin to thinking you are Manchester United, but waking up to find you have actually just bought Accrington Stanley.... reserves (and most of them are crocked).  What the hell. Regards,


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, my old grandad would have been happy about Lancashire - he was a big supporter. At least you don't get involved in the "Yorkshire doesn't exist any more because it was abolished in some obscure local government reorganisation or other" type of arguments!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:35, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump disruptive edits, please help
AndyTheGrump seems to revert my and other editors edits whithout writing a reason or argument on Swedes about whenever calling the ethnic group for Germanic which is an obvious fact — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolsemkosh (talk • contribs) 20:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure why the new(?) user Wolsemkosh is asking for help here. If you're interested, I suggest you look at the recent history of the Swedes article, and note that after User:Thegoodson was blocked, a number of similar IPs, and then this new user, have all attempted to edit the article lede without discussion, in spite of repeated requests. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:18, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Think I'll steer clear of that one. Why's he asking me anyway??  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No idea... AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:53, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Johnny Heartsman
Could you check for me whether "Johnny's House Party" (1957) was a US R&B hit. Allmusic seems to be a bit undecided. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Never heard of him, or it! But, my faithful  reports that "John Heartsman, the Rhythm Rocker and the Gaylarks" had 1 week at no. 13 on the R&B chart on 10 June 1967 with "Johnny's House Party (Parts 1 & 2)" on Music City 45-807.  And here it is!  Heartsman was born 9 Feb 1937 in San Fernando, California, was a singer / guitarist / pianist and popular session musician, who first recorded for the Rhythm label in 1953.  (But I expect you already knew that!)  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * No I didn't, but thanks - it was more of a punt to see whether I was wasting my time proceeding. Clearly it is worth pursuing.  I wonder why it was a hit a decade after it seemingly was recorded. That may explain Allmusic's indecision. Anyhow, The Gaylarks almost trumps The Gaylords in the pseudo-mincing band name stakes.  Can't ask him though, poor old Heartsman's ticker gave out in December 1996. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:37, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Wah!!!! My mistake!!!!! It was a hit in 1957 not 1967.  Big oops!!!  Sorry!!!!!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:38, 18 September 2011 (UTC)  (These "senior moments" are occurring with greater frequency.  I forget when they started though.)


 * That's alright. No damage done, as I have yet to start to 'compose' the article. Good job my senior moments have shown no signs of starting yet, Geoffrey. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:57, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

And so it came to pass, in glowing Bullycolour - Johnny Heartsman ! Cheers, - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Sudbrook Cricket Club
I missed the prod, but it's a shame this was deleted - especially if we can find some better sourcing for it being the club where the modern cricket bat (with inserted cane handle) was invented. Were you by any chance at the Severn Tunnel anniversary the other weekend? Andy Dingley (talk) 08:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No - I was away at the time. I hadn't heard the story about the cricket bat - a source would be good.  I can understand why the article was deleted - unsourced and a lot of trivia - but I might have contested it had I remembered!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 September 2011
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Principality of Wales
Any idea where Ystryth is (per this)? Daicaregos (talk) 15:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's obviously an old typo compounded with a slight misunderstanding - my copy of Davies (paperback p.133) makes clear it's supposed to refer to Aberystwyth Castle. Thanks for noticing.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thought it probably was. Thanks for checking. Daicaregos (talk) 07:26, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

News and progress from RfA reform 2011
(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of these pages.)

The number of nominations continues to nosedive seriously, according to  these monthly figures. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Wikipedia now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through changes to the current system, a radical alternative, or by fiat from elsewhere.

A lot of work is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising  the project  pages, researching  statistics and keeping  them  up  to  date. You'll also see for example that  we have recently  made tables to  compare how other Wikipedias choose  their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits.

The purpose of WP:RFA2011 is to focus attention on  specific issues of our  admin  selection  process and to develop  RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into dedicated sections each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that  all Wikipedia policy changes take a long  time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to  be active - getting the proposals right before offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your watchlist; do check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, please revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments.

The object of WP:RFA2011 is not  to make it  either  easier or harder to  become an admin -  those criteria are set by  those who  !vote at  each  RfA. By providing  a unique venue for developing ideas for  change independent  of  the general discussion  at  WT:RFA, the project has two  clearly  defined goals: The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project  pages to  suggest  and discuss ideas that are not  strictly  within  the remit  of this project. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they  will  offer maximum exposure to  the broader community, rather than individual  projects in  user space.
 * 1) Improving the environment  that  surrounds RfA in  order to  encourage mature, experienced editors of the right  calibre to  come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their  time to  admin  tasks.
 * 2) Discouraging, in the nicest  way  possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to  guide them towards the advice pages.

We already know what's wrong with RfA - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 is now ready to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the entire Wikipedia community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in  order to  build consensus.

New tool Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new RfA Vote Counter to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern.

Are you ready to help? Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, constructive comments from any  editors are always welcome on  the project's various talk  pages. The main reasons  why  WT:RfA was never successful in  getting  anything  done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody  remembers them and where they  are hard to  find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on  the founder's talk  page.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 15:56, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

Your comments on The Shirelles
Hi Ghmyrtle, I've replied to your comments (moved to Peer review/The Shirelles/archive1 to keep them in one place) Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 September 2011
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Rogiet
I'm still stumped on wording for this. The point I'm trying to emphasise is partly to do with "Rogiet station", and the lack thereof. The railway existed for 30+ years and had no effect on the village, not even as a dormitory for railwaymen. When the tunnel, junction and station opened though, it changed everything quite rapidly. I think something ought to staty in there to say this, but I can't think how to word it. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * My view is that "The presence of the station became a catalyst for the growth of the village" says all that is needed. Obviously, railway lines whizz through the countryside everywhere, without themselves attracting housing alongside them.  It is the presence of a station (with passenger trains stopping there - is that the key point?) that attracts housing development, and that's true everywhere.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:12, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The key point would seem to be the engine shed. That's where the people worked. As a station, even in its heyday, it seems to have been a classic junction - a fair few people changing trains, but no-one entering or leaving the station. I think that commuter traffic (i.e. passengers starting or finishing at STJ) is actually greater today (for two bus shelters and a portakabin) than it was at its height.
 * If you read Severn Tunnel Junction railway station (which still needs fixing) it talks about a non-existent "Rogiet station" and the assumption from that might well be that the line had a station pre-tunnel, and that the station implied a larger village. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:23, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Should it be something like "The presence of the junction and goods yard became a catalyst for the growth of the village"...? I don't know what exactly happened.  Was the housing expansion a result of commuters using the station as passengers, or was it for workers at the goods yard and sheds?  I'm not too clear.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This is explained somewhat at Rogiet and the cited refs. While there was a railway, but no station or engine shed, there was no effect at all. Even once the tunnel opened (and the coal traffic using it) there was still only a very small effect. Although railwaymen now worked in Rogiet in some numbers, they didn't live there, but in the established nearby towns and villages (although Caldicot was tiny as yet). It's likely that Undy Halt was built for railwaymen living there to travel to the STJ shed every morning. House building in Rogiet didn't really happen until after WWI, with the Garden Village - which was tied so closely to the railway that only railwaymen could become tenants. It has grown continuously ever since. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:26, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Revenge is sweet
I'll give you 'The Symbols' ?!?!

Anyhow, I know your love of a bit of detective work (remember Jeff Allen?) Well, I stumbled across an old blues singer in my research, called Bessie Brown. The more I dug, the more confusing the trail proved. There are seemingly two blues/jazz/vaudeville singers from a similar time span, who appear to have been muddled up by both Allmusic and Wikipedia. Actually it does not surprise me, because I am similarly befuddled. More so than usual, that is. So far I have - Bessie Brown 1: Born 1890 (Cleveland?) died 1955 ? "The Original Bessie Brown" - recorded 1925 to 1929. One-time male impersonator. Complete Recorded Work (1925-29). Songs include "Chloe (Song of the Swamp)", "Them Has Been Blues", "Song from a Cotton Field", and "St. Louis Blues" (1926). Recorded for Pathé Records. Married early 1930s to Clarence Shaw - presumably not this Clarence Shaw.

Bessie Brown 2: Born 1895 ? (Texas?), Bessie E. Brown (?), died 1955 ? (too big a coincidence) - recorded 1923 to 1930. Sang duets with George (W.) Williams - such as "I You Hit My Dog I'll Kick Your Cat", "When You Go Hunting, I’m Goin' Fishin'", "Ain’t Much Good in the Best of Men These Days" (maybe or maybe not), and "Hoodoo Blues".

Pseduonyms for one of both of them include Caroline Lee, Mandy Lee, Helen Richards, Sadie Green, or even Rosa Henderson. For further confusion see the psuedonyms seemingly used by Vaughn De Leath. I am loathe to give you my differentiations (above), as I am only 80% sure of my 'facts'. Also, do you think both should be covered in a single Wiki article, to avoid further confusion, or would two separate articles be a better bet ?

Or, is it simply worth forgetting about ?! Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Yikes! Give me a month or three and I might think of an answer.  The Symbols sounds much easier!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: My answer is: Ask Stefan... !   Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:23, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * PPS: We have Bessie Brown - unreferenced.  The Allmusic article (not necessarily reliable, as we know) gives her as b. Cleveland, responsible for "If You Hit My Dog I'll Kick Your Cat" etc., and the wife of George W. Williams.  The RedHotJazz article seems to me to refer to a quite different person - different songs and styles.  So I'm pretty sure that our article should not link to the Allmusic article as our article refers to the "classic blues" singer not the (for want of a better word) "hokum" / vaudeville singer.  Your "Bessie Brown 2" (m. George W) seems to cover the person who lacks an article here.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * PPPS: More about Bessie and George here, and more explanation (unreadable to me but you may have a copy) here. What the relevance of Jean-Paul Sartre is, I'm not sure.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for all that. The Bessie Brown article is now expanded and referenced.  I think I will leave the hoodoo hokum duo as sleeping dogs.  Now, what is it about The Symbols, me wonders ?


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 17:49, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

George Ford
Another opportunity for you to play Wiki's answer to Sherlock Homes.

George Ford - born 1 January 1950. I am always slightly sceptical about 1 January birth dates. With Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel (1975-77), Medicine Head (1974 ish), The Shadows (or at least Cliff Richard's backing ensemble (c. 1980)), played on Al Stewart's Year of the Cat (1976), step-brother (?) of Emile Ford, maybe played on Doris Troy's Rainbow Testament (1972). Possibly moved/emigrated to Canada in the mid 1980s. Worked there with Long John Baldry - mmmm. Some of this is considerably more 'third-party reliable source' than others. However, some blogs state George Ford died circa March 2007. I really struggle (apart from the Cockney Rebel connection, of which I am a self-confessed  |"expert texpert") and Year of the Cat  to find anything concrete on his fine bass guitarist. So, any info/pointers/thoughts would be useful. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:05, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I need a rest. In the last couple of days I've resurrected Barbara Acklin from copyvio hell, started Walter Jackson and Carl Davis - not to mention Edward Kassner - and had a good go at The Golden Gate Quartet.  What I don't understand is.... why???  I'm going to get a life and enjoy the sunshine for a few days!   Anyway - I leave all this modern (post-1970) British stuff to you!   Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:18, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Bloody hell", states Watson, "have you been at the opium again?" Kassner, ahhh, so that explains your Symbols plea. Acklin was married, or at least 'close' to Eugene Record, a mighty fine songwriter and singer, I thought.  Well done.  Don't let the sun go to your head, for we will all be frozen solid within six weeks or so, if last year is anything to go by. A parting shot - "modern (post-1970)" - LOL, don't let your youngest nearest and dearest hear you say that.


 * Anyhow, despite your protests, you'll be back - a la "And finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin mint".


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll have seen these: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, yes? Could he be here and here?  All very unreliable I'm afraid.  I'm definitely off out now.....   Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:09, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Oooo, you found three or four more than I managed - the Sweetnam (elsewise Sweetman) bit may be the key. Thanks for your efforts, but I'll obviously need something more tangible for an article. Does The Ferris Wheel mean anything to you ?  Nothing to me, I must say.  Anyhow, do not fret over a response. I'm off for a drive with the lid down in my brmm-brmm before it starts snowing.  Cheers,


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:43, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Not much to me either, but I'd say they certainly justify an article, based on this. Here's a pic showing the Sweetnam / Ford / "Sweetman" brothers - there's obviously been a few typos over their names as well.  So, I can easily see a Ferris Wheel (band) article, with references to Sweetnam-Ford (or whatever he was called) in that article, as being a way forward.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:00, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: More (dis)information here, here and here. Maybe the article on Michael Emile Ford Sweetnam, b. Bahamas, needs to be tweaked a little as well!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Cor blimey, I've gone round and round and round with George and Emile Ford, and can not really find sufficient, reliable third party references, to do either justice. So I've given up and moved on elsewhere - like Birmingham, Alabama. I know you are interested in places (granted mainly English/Welsh ones), so have you any idea why Birmingham is referred to as Pratt City ? Actually, it might not be, but under List of songs about Birmingham, Alabama it lists 'Jabo Williams, "Pratt City Blues", 1932'. I might do an article on Jabo and all info is welcome. Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:53, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Pratt City is a neighbo(u)rhood of Birmingham. It was previously known as Coketon, and was the home of workers with the Pratt Coal and Coke Company. This was founded by James Sloss (more here), was named after early Birmingham industrialist  Daniel Pratt (more here), and was the largest mining operation in the Birmingham area in the late 19th century.  The settlement of Coketon - aka Pratt Mines - was incorporated as Pratt City in 1893 - here.  More information here.  Next question......??!!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:19, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Hell's bells, what a response! For outstanding services to the cause, I hereby award you the Golden Deerstalker. In the meantime purely metaphorically, and with the dear lamented Lonnie leading the way, "I'm Alabamy Bound".  Thanks again,


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:01, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I may have to attempt The Ferris Wheel (band) then....! Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, please do, then it is not only me that is going round in circles. I feel somewhat frustrated that I can not give George Ford his due. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:00, 3 October 2011 (UTC)