User talk:Ghmyrtle/Archive 29

The Signpost, 1 April 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:42, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

ISB
I know your still off, but when you get back I was wondering if you can help me with something. I have been working on the Changing Horses album by the ISB for some time now. I need to add some more background info, and I'll have a book soon called Gently Tender that will describe the recording sessions. So I wanted to get an exact release date, but all I can find is November 1969. Could you possibly direct me to something that potentially has exact release dates? Big help if you could, thanks and get back soon! TheGracefulSlick ( talk) April 4, 2015 22:07
 * Sorry, can't find a specific date. I'll copy-edit your ISB articles a little when I have some time - not sure when that will be as I'll be away for a week or two.  But, before I go, I'll be off down the road (literally a hundred yards or so away) to see Mr Williamson himself -  - should be a treat!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:19, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 April 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Rotherham Sex Scandal Article
Hello Ghmyrtle, I hope you are well? I've reverted your revert on the Guardian cite because in this case I believe it is relevant considering the degree of anger over the use of the weasel-word 'Asian' rather than 'Muslim' (re: Rotherham Sex Scandal) by said community in relation to child sex abuse, Iman Amrani is a very respected Algerian British freelance journalist who happens to be Muslim and brought neutrality to the issue which I believe has great credence and although it was in the commentary section on this occasion she often writes for the paper in other sections. Best wishes as always. Twobells''t@lk 10:30, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Update, I see you've used a 2nd argument for removal, please let me quote from the piece: She went on to conclude that “one of these myths was that only white girls are victims of sexual exploitation by Asian or Muslim males, as if these men only abuse outside of their own community, driven by hatred and contempt for white females.. Twobells''t@lk 10:33, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The source does not support the claim that the criminals concerned were "of the Muslim faith". Also, you have duplicated a sentence... and you persist in using bare URLs  rather than proper citation styles - please see WP:IC and WP:BAREURLS.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

User:Montanabw/Duck box
Hi, I don't mean to involve you in this, but it's concerning. Apparently, I'm being deemed a sock puppet because I'm both a teenager and like older music. I tried to get the user to remove me from the list, since the grounding is meaningless, but no luck. Perhaps you could have a take on it, since you have been here longer. TheGracefulSlick (talk)

Check out the Garage rock article!!!
I have made some additions and improvements to the Garage rock article that I think you will really love. I feel that I have done so with the trust you have placed in me as an editor--and I think you will be satisfied. Of course, if you see anything that could be improved, go right ahead. I made mentions of the changes made, under one of the threads on the talk page of that article. Thanks. Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:35, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I also added a well-sourced section about the female bands, that I think you would like to see. I did't list sources for the last sentence, because all that it does is enumerate the names of bands, in blue, that already have articles.  I checked to make sure all articles mentioned were sourced.  However, if need be, I can cite references in that sentence too, if you think it would be a good idea. My comments on the Pleasure Seekers are sourced, but I noticed that the article on them needs more references and citations.  Most of its contents look correct, to my best judgment, but we are going to have to make some improvements on that article. TheGracefulSlick (talk), has indicated that she would like to get better sourcing in some of these articles.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * "...she..."  ??   Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I just learned that "she" is a he. Oh well, its the 21st century! Wiki's keepin' up with the times.Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:30, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the touch-ups in the "Female garage bands" section. As you can see, I was really struggling with the opening phrase.  I like that way you have worded it. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:45, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Don Robey
Thanks for the assist. I like my new edit much more than the previous. Howzzat? Tapered (talk) 16:44, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. The article does need expanding though - some direct quotes from musicians, etc., would be good to include.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

http://www.thesoulbasement.com/Site/Duke-Peacock.html More information on Robey-some of which could be included can be found above. dorkinglad (talk)
 * You're a legend! Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:13, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Blimey Adrian is being a tad OTT! Legend indeed! I'm not even that well known in my own house. We have a good laugh when we meet up for a Radio Show. I'm doing a Candi Staton special with Adrian next month if you are interested. I've just checked the Don Robey Wikipedia entry and put some comments. The article is very biased against Robey and needs serious editing. I don't think the guy who wrote it will let people edit though. dorkinglad (talk)
 * Re Robey - I've commented on the talk page, and made an initial change to the opening para. I don't think you should have any worries about any particular editor - the one you're thinking of has certainly made some changes to the article, but so have I (here, back in 2006, for example); there are many other editors who might have an interest in the article (it might be interesting to know what  thinks, for example!); and we are all under an equal requirement to stay neutral and balanced.   I will happily re-edit the article at some point, but the next couple of weeks might be difficult for me.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:51, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look when I have some time. Robey was no angel, but he deserves a lot of credit for his accomplishments, and his entry should be balanced to reflect that. Pstoller (talk) 05:16, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Sandy Edmonds
You always have an expertise at finding info so I was wondering if you could find the birth date of Sandy Edmonds, a pop idol who was popular in the 1960s in New Zealand. She is the focus of my upcoming article, so it would be a huge help. ( TheGracefulSlick ( talk)
 * Looks like you've done well already! It seems she was born in 1948 (not 1949), at Ormskirk, which is a few miles outside Liverpool.  This official record (but subscription-only) says she was born Rosalie L Edmondson.  Not sure whether you've seen these sites -, , , , ,  , ,  , , ... etc.   Certainly worthy of an article - good find!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: Any reason why you usually sign using only three of these ~ instead of four? WP:SIGHOW - four tildes is usual practice, and it helps keep track of who did what when (which can become important in any disputes, etc.)   Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:35, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, greatly appreciated, I saw some, but not all of these sources. This will be a big help when I start writing later today. And it is good I have confirmation on the date. I will try to use the right signature again, sorry. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 5:37 14 April 2015
 * Great earrings!!..... !!... and !!!!.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:49, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh my gosh, you are right! Such an intriguing woman. I don't know why her manager didn't like her singing, I thought it was genuinely good. Surprisingly, in one of my many boxes of CDs, I found a compilation of her work. Funny how that works, I guess I knew her longer than I expected. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 8:27, 14 April 2015

I created the Sandy Edmonds article, and cannot thank you enough for your help with the references. Big help, I enjoyed learning and writing about her and listening to her music. I will continue to add slight improvements to it when I see neccessary. Again thanks for all your help, you make this even more enjoyable for me, and probably many others. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:30, 16 April 2015

Sorry for the "the hospital" over just "hospital" thing. I know it is minor, but I do not want you to think I was trying to contradict you. Just my darn American diction, I suppose :). I plan to add a discography to the page, and some minor tweaks if there is anything else I find after rereading it. My next project will be about Neal Ford and the Fanatics, but I think I will edit some albums for awhile before getting to that subject. Hope everything is going well for you and thanks again.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:20, 17 April 2015
 * No problem at all. After I go and see Robin Williamson tonight, I'll be offline for a couple of weeks - have fun!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:46, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Tammi Terrell
Hi, Sorry about the incorrect information on Tammi/Ernie Terrell. I've just spent a half hour trying to prove that they did marry. I can't find anything conclusive. The rumour seems to have started at the time of her first record for Motown. The ever sharp Berry Gordy thought Montgomery, her actual surname was too long, even though she had recorded all ready under that name. (information from 'The Complete Motown singles Vol 5'). BTW I see a mention of record producer Don Robey on your page. I once wrote an article on him that is now on the net on the 'Basement Sounds' website. best Greg dorkinglad (talk)
 * Thanks. Yes, it's best not to reinforce false information that's around on the web - and which has been repeated by several authoritative writers, sad to say.  I think the consensus among the people who knew her well - including her sister - is that she and Ernie Terrell didn't know each other, and the story about Berry Gordy renaming her because the name Montgomery was too long is correct.  No doubt some of the confusion is that Jean Terrell of the Supremes was Ernie's sister.   Re Don Robey - yes, his tangled story needs a lot of rewriting here.  I'll try to get round to it sometime, if no-one else gets in first, but I probably can't work on it immediately as I'll be away.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:09, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Anti-British sentiment
Hi, If you think that the one line that currently exists is justified I have nothing more to say to you.

Came across a really bad (!!!) article!!!
I just stumbled across the worst article I have ever seen called Freak scene!!! I cannot decide whether or not the whole thing is a complete farce. It seems as if the editors there just want to make up a whole new definition of an imagined past subculture and musical genre out of thin air. It has almost no sources. Looks like the whole thing needs to go the trash heap (or at least get a radical makeover). It's so bad, its good! Check it out! Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:34, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree - I've commented there. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed your improvements to this article. It looks a lot better now! Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:48, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

US 'Won't Get Wales'
Quite amazing. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:46, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * One wonders if they would even be helped by suitable hand gestores. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Vendetta?
Not at all. I see some articles which I don't believe have notability some with false claims in the beginning of the passages and some with few if any notable sources. CrazyAces489 (talk) 13:53, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What "false claims"? Your claim that Dinah Washington "sang in a rock band" is bizarre, and untrue.  I'm confident that the articles meet notability guidelines (indeed, one of them went through AFD just a few weeks ago).   If you have a problem with the articles, help improve them.   Given that all the articles you've nominated for deletion in the last few minutes have been written by a single editor, the idea that - for some reason - you are pursuing a vendetta is by no means "ridiculous".   Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Grace Slick was before Barb. I am helping to improve them.  A notability tag.  I can understand based on your editing history that you have an interest in keeping these articles up.  They do have to be notable.  A tag is easily placed on an article and articles created is easily viewable. I placed a tag on  and you didn't remove that one!  Past that, don't go on my talk page again.  Thank you. CrazyAces489 (talk) 14:02, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of the notability guidelines, and of Grace Slick. As I suggested, we are talking about (apparently) a new, young, and highly enthusiastic editor - the sort of person who we should be encouraging.  Most of their articles need to be improved, with better references, and more encyclopedic language.   That can easily be done, given time.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:18, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

It appears the user is putting up the Bo Street Runners for deletion, and attacked other articles I wrote. Sorry for getting you involved, but the user is taking things too personally. TheGracefulSlick ( talk) 11:05, 15 April 2015
 * Mmm..  See Wikipedia:Deletionists.   So long as you can defend your articles in terms of the notability guidelines - and different editors interpret them differently - there shouldn't really be a problem.  Annoying, though, I know.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:18, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Noted, I don't take the user to be a deletionist, I just think he/she was angry with my agreement that their page was not notable. Anyways, I think everyone will see my article was notable, so no harm done. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 11:37, 16 April 2015

P.S. he is in discussion with a user to reopen the Toggery Five case. So yes, it's very annoying. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 11:55, 16 April 2015


 * TheGracefulSlick brought to my attention this highly contentious situation, which has resulted in him being temporarily blocked--which has me very concerned. It is sad that certain editors with negative agendas want to destroy his enthusiasm for contributing to Wiki--and want to go on a "deletionsit" frenzy against well-sourced articles covering rare, but antique/collectable musical acts.  I appreciate the support for such editors as TheGracefulSlick that you have communicated in this thread. Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 April 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 April 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:45, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Made a few changes to heading in "Freak scene" article
I made a few modifications to heading in Freak scene article. I think that you will agree that the new wording is more accurate and better conforms to the sourced material in the article as well as public perception. I left an explanation on the talk page there. Garagepunk66 (talk) 01:54, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Amy Gentry
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Harry Thomas, Prestatyn
Your edit of 14:12, 11 April 2015‎

Google "harry thomas" welsh historian

2nd item: The link www.gwasg.com/buy-online/how-to-buy-our-books-online.html is now defunct, but http://www.gwasg.com/buy-online/ lists Harry Thomas books.

3rd item: http://www.meliden.org.uk/?page_id=1055 also lists Harry Thomas books.

So Harry Thomas does/did exist, and has written books; And I think it's quite legitimate to mention him.

P.S. I live in Prestatyn, but I didn't put in the info. that you've just deleted. PS2. You don't need to be very notable to be a significant person in a small town like Prestatyn. PS3. Frazier Mohawk - The guidance says that non-valid links should be tagged as [dead-link] rather than deleted. 81.132.99.174 (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * When I search for Prestatyn on certain websites, Google sends me adverts for his books:-
 * https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=p151RAAACAAJ&dq=prestatyn&num=4&client=internal-uds&cd=3&source=uds&hl=en
 * https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-sq6xRuHZJUC&pg=PA34&dq=prestatyn&num=4&client=internal-uds&cd=4&source=uds&hl=en#v=onepage&q=prestatyn&f=false  165.120.235.104 (talk) 04:53, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The point is that whether or not someone should be included in sections or lists like this should be determined by whether they meet the criteria for having their own Wikipedia article - see WP:NLIST, and WP:Source list. In other words, whether they are - in Wikipedia terms - notable.  And, that depends not on simply whether they have had books published, but on whether they, as individuals, have been written about and discussed in reliable sources.  I've no doubt that Mr Thomas is a reputable local historian, but does he meet the criteria for listing under WP:BIO?  - I'm not convinced.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:07, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There are a number of Kneejerk reverters who take this attitude. Which is obviously wrong, and not even in accordance with WP guidelines (Note. Not Rules).  See Notability#Stand-alone_lists "The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability".  Another section you should read is Wikipedia:Avoiding_common_mistakes "Wikipedia does not employ hard-and-fast rules".  That's why I seldom bother trying to put new info into WP, because some B.F. will just delete it. Google Maps is the same.86.168.58.63 (talk) 18:13, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 April 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:11, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Sailing, We Are Sailing....
How was A Life on the Ocean Wave ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:29, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Fine. But, as for life back here....  Grrrrrrrrrr.................     Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:38, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Need help w/ Bill Mitchell article: need a photo of him and a slight change of name of article
I was wondering if you could help in finding a free public domain photograph of Bill Mitchell for the article bearing his name. Also there seems to be a consensus there that the present title, "Bill Mithcell (designer)," of the article is not sufficient, because it is not specific about what he designed. Because he was an automotive designer, the name of the article should read something like "Bill Mitchell (automotive designer)" or "Bill Mitchell (automobile designer). I was wondering if you could help with these things.  Also: I will try and get more sourcing for the article. Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:12, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I can't help with that. My experiences on finding and uploading appropriate images are not good...   and in any case I'm suffering PC problems at the moment that are limiting my time here.  (And, I'm afraid the article subject isn't really of interest to me.)  Good luck!   Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:37, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

No problem. I understand. I hope that the computer issues get resolved. I've had the same thing happen to mine on a number of occasions. Garagepunk66 (talk) 18:37, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Then tell me what this page is about,
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK-Motorway-M14.svg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Silentsilence32 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No idea. It's an image someone has designed.  There is no M14 motorway (or MI4, as you had it) in the UK.  This describes it as a "fantasy road", if the A14 in East Anglia were ever upgraded to motorway standard.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:48, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 May 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back
I had no idea you were back from break, everything has been so busy. Hope everything when you were away went well and I look forward to working with you again in the future.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:12, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Darling Belle
If you have time, I was wondering if you could give an opinion on whether or not I should write about an ISB song called, "Darling Belle". I was reading about the song in the Be Glad book, and a whole chapter was devoted to the it. Two other books also give a considerable mention to the song. You can be honest, I won't be offended if you say no. I know it would be a bit of a stretch, though I thought "The White Ship" song was a stretch too. Anyways, I have a lot of ideas I have listed on my sandbox, so I can still write about something, regardless. Peace :) TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:56, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Not sure.  Certainly not my favourite ISB period, and I doubt whether there are sufficient independent sources to justify an article.  But, it's up to you.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 May 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:43, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Album name
Why is The Electric Prunes (album) titled as such, even though it is really called I Had Too Much to Dream (Last Dream)? It says it in the Infobox, so it is conflicting between the two.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 11:08, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently it was moved back in 2007 in this edit. I suggest you raise it on the article talk page.  The conflicting text should certainly be resolved, but the problem is that on the original label (for example here) it was simply called The Electric Prunes.  Back in those days it was common for the titles of the leading tracks to be listed on the front cover of the LP, without necessarily giving their name to the LP itself.  But, it's a moot point and we can discuss it further on the article talk page.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, will do. I was more concerned with the conflicting titles rather than which one was more correct. And thanks for your view on the "Darling Belle" idea, it was not particularly my favorite era either, but it has an interesting story. I prefer Hangman or 5,000 Spirits over Liquid Acrobat on any day, and you have a point that there may not be enough sources. I will consider it more after I finish my next article and complete the editing for (hopefully) my first GA article.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 12:36, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Mean Old World
I was looking for some sources to expand "Mean Old World" and found: "Many of what would become T-Bone's trademark licks are on display [in "MOW" and "I Got a Break Baby"], including his classic unison bend from the G to B strings that Chuck Berry would appropriate a decade later." This appears in bars 7–8 (about :28–:31) on the Capitol "MOW" single (I didn't notice it on "IGABB"). Berry uses it in bars 4–8 of "Johnny B. Goode" (about :06–:12). Is this the same lick that is referred to in the Origins of rock and roll article? (I wasn't aware that James used it). If it's something else, do you have a ref that describes it? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't write those words - I may have accepted them in good faith when editing that article, but I'm not sure where they came from. I am not a musician or musicologist, so I'm afraid I can't really help with this - I think it's a subject where your expertise far outweighs mine, and I've no objection if you correct or remove it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll keep an eye out for more RSs. Meanwhile, I'll change the "MOW" entry to reflect and add the Rubin ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 May 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Emmerdale
WHY ARE YOU PLAYING THE PROXY FOR A VANDAL? --Hash Tag 444 (talk) 11:02, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

ANI
Hi Ghmyrtle I mentioned you here. I am going off in a strop now to make tea. Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Recent IP edits
You've probably noticed, but there has been a lot of activity by IP(s) recently at Origins of r&r, How Many More Years, Willie Johnson, Blues rock, and similar articles. They are adding poorly-written OR, closely paraphrased material using blog & bad refs, improper citations, etc. Jagged 85, a banned editor, made similar edits in the past. Do you have any experience dealing with this? —Ojorojo (talk) 14:46, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The simple answer is no, I haven't. Most of the edits I've seen are ones that seem fairly neutral, and I think on balance the changes to the Goree Carter article have been positive.  But, I must admit I haven't checked against the sources for copyvio, etc..   I haven't checked all the edits that have been made, and I'm also aware that my own practice in some of those areas is less than perfect!  But, if you have concerns about WP:SOCK, the place to raise it is WP:SPI.  I don't think I've personally ever gone down that road - certainly not for a long time.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:57, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, he's a sock (Sockpuppet investigations/Jagged 85) and has quite a history (WP:Jagged 85 cleanup and WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Jagged 85/Archive). Although some of his edits appear sound, they are mixed in with a lot of problematic material.  Following sock policy, I've begun to make wholesale reverts.  If you think there is something worth saving, the sources should be scrutinized for copyvios, synthesis, NPOV, etc. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Removing their edits wholesale, as here, seems somewhat draconian. Regardless of their past history (and what you say is policy, though I'd like to see a link to that), many of their edits seemed to me to be worthwhile and well sourced.  But, you will do what you feel you must.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:BANREVERT includes "Anyone is free to revert any edits made in violation of a ban, without giving any further reason and without regard to the three-revert rule." WP:BMB explains: "Editors are only site-banned as a last resort, usually for extreme or very persistent problems that have not been resolved by lesser sanctions and that often resulted in considerable disruption or stress to other editors. A ban is not merely a request to avoid editing "unless they behave". The measure of a site ban is that even if the editor were to make good edits, permitting them to re-join the community is perceived to pose enough risk of disruption, issues, or harm, that they may not edit at all, even if the edits seem good.[5]" —Ojorojo (talk) 18:37, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

UK Nationals
Hey, I have moved your comments below Martins as he responded first, for chronology's sake, so people understand the flow of debate, hope thats okay with you? best wishes. Twobells''t@lk 16:09, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No - see WP:INDENT. I was specifically responding to you, not to Martin.  Reverted.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a proposal not a debate, you really should have commented after Martin, now its all screwed up. Twobells''t@lk 16:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't considered Martin's proposal, therefore I was not responding to it. Again, please see WP:INDENT, particularly example 3.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:15, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Lets just keep it clean and simple please? respond to my proposal below ok? Martins edits are an appendum to the proposal not comments. I have put all comments below the proposal in the correct chronology and with your okay placed my name as the start of your comments so readers can follow the reasoning, best wishes. Twobells''t@lk 16:30, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope... you should not reword other editors' comments (and nor should ), even if you think it makes life easier.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:32, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Twobells hasn't objected. GoodDay (talk) 16:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:TPO: "Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page."   Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I restored Twobells original wording. He may (of course) change it as his pleases. GoodDay (talk) 17:05, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Be careful when alluding (even indirectly) to my past. Some might view that as an indirect threat of future action, towards themselves :) GoodDay (talk) 17:26, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Happy to withdraw it, if you like. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:57, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's best that you withdraw, for the sake of the UK NAT discussions tone. GoodDay (talk) 18:07, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:12, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

MOSBIO
Thanks for mentioning the UKNAT situtaiton at MOSBIO. We two 'grey beards' both know that 'new' blood is required there :) GoodDay (talk) 19:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

So much for new input there :( GoodDay (talk) 20:54, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Tourist board spammername
I used to live in a town that was dependent on tourism. Tourism boards (however named) are tools of the tourism industry, and not charitable or civic entities in any way. I treated them as I would any commercial spammer, because that's what they are: commercial. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  17:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 May 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:28, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Jonathan King
I see you designed the list of "other names" Jonathan King released hits under on the King page. Coming from that era (just turned 60) I remember him being more known for producing hits and having them on his label. Could you make another list there of those - i.e. Bay City Rollers, Saint Cecilia, Angelettes, Piglets, 10cc, Terry Dactyl, Lobo, Roy C and so on? 213.152.6.214 (talk) 11:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Not as such. I doubt if a definitive independent list of records he produced exists.  In any case, it would only be feasible to list his successful chart records - and lists of chart records that I have seen usually only show the title, artist, label, and (sometimes) songwriter - not the producer.  We could do it, if good sources exist (independent of King himself), but I haven't seen them.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:19, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Such other producers like Bert Berns, Jerry Wexler, Micky Most, Joe Meek and so on seem to be correctly credited. He was much more known as a producer and label boss than singer.213.152.6.214 (talk) 10:19, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * They don't have definitive tables of production credits though, just incomplete lists, in various forms. It might be possible to put something for King, using a source like this (though there are questions over that site's reliability in some matters) - but I don't feel very motivated to tackle it myself.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That site looks very suspect, attributing all kinds of odd and frankly wrong titles. Never mind. Just a thought. Stay well.213.152.6.214 (talk) 10:40, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It struck me as odd when the list below also has an Australian chart placing that Wikipedia puts just a couple of numbers in the lead. Also obviously a hit elsewhere. http://hitsofalldecades.com/chart_hits/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2121 But it doesn't bother me that much to change it back. Majestic2016 (talk) 15:20, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It tells me: 'You are not authorized to view this resource.' C'est la vie.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:59, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Try this. Scroll down to November 1st. http://hitsofalldecades.com/chart_hits/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2014 Majestic2016 (talk) 07:06, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 June 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 June 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:09, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Question on names
I was planning, in between editing, to write about an album called Close, a solo effort by Sean Bonniwell. However, for this album, he is credited as "T.S. Bonniwell", so I was wondering whether I use that name or his regular name when explaining who made it. Or perhaps do I use the moniker and than tell readers it is really Sean Bonniwell? Your input is appreciated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:36, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the article title? I'm not sure it matters much whether you call it Close (Sean Bonniwell album) or Close (T. S. Bonniwell album), so long as one redirects to the other.  In the text you could just say "....an album recorded by Sean Bonniwell, credited as T. S. Bonniwell...".   Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:50, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I was referring to the text, but the title would have been my next question anyways. I just wanted to take the time to say I appreciate your work on the USA article. I have read many of your works here, whether they were created by you or not, and while they are all important, this piece in particular met a lot to me. The band's music has always been of interest to me and I'm glad they finally have an article that equals their importance . So again, thanks.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 08:17, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Not quite ready to go out yet, I'm afraid - but I'm working on it! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:52, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was reading the draft as it was being developed. I also like your work on Joseph Byrd. I really appreciate the work of those experimental groups and artists, so I am glad there are still people I can relate to. Trust me when I say it is hard to start a conversation about a band like the USA with someone my age! I should have the Sean Bonniwell album article created tomorrow after I finished a few wikilinks and (hopefully) fix the grammatical errors I made. Anyways, thanks for making this a lot more fun for me, I actually thought I would be bored of this by now, but I still feel encouraged to write and edit.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:55, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 June 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Massive expansion of garage rock article underway
I am working on a massive expansion of the garage rock article--you can find it in the tabbed sandbox on my user page. It is an arduous task to say the least (it feels like a dissertation!). I notice that the progress of writing this piece seems to go in both a linear as well as up-and-down direction. In order to make it go more smoothly and quickly, I am writing out the text parts now. Then I will insert the citations later on in the week--however it is not being written extemporaneously--I have carefully researched the sources and I keep going back to look at them constantly--so it will be thoroughly sourced. Once I get the text finished and the citations put in, I will ask for feedback. There may be things in there now that we will take out later--we may have to extract some elements, although judiciously. But, I wanted to let you know about it now so that you can be ready to help me touch it up when the time comes. I hope you will like it. Thanks. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:39, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm coming along with it. I was thinking that rather than wait to put in everything all at once, I will put things in in maybe two or three stages.  My first (and biggest) stage of additions is showing now in my first sandbox--all I need to do is insert all of the sources--I hope it will be ready in about a week, so I'll let everyone know when Stage 1 is ready.  Things that will be included after that in Stage 2  (and subsequent stages of additions), which will come a little later, are in my Sandbox 3; in the second stage, I will add sections on the far East, Asutralia, and also a section on Psychedelic garage, which I've written the preamble for.  I think it will be best to do it in stages, because the thought of the enormity of it all is beginning to feel burdensome. I will be relieved just to get the first stage put into the article (even thought admittedly, it will look slightly incomplete at that point).  Then I can make future additions that will seem more finite and less overwhelming to me.  Gosh I had no idea how crazy this thing would be--its a beast! Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:45, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 June 2015

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:14, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Tin Pan Alley
Please stop. There's no reason that another place's "Tin Pan Alley" is a sigtnificant-enough fact to be in the lede of the article about the real place. "See also" is appropriate, and it's appropriate in the Denmark Street article, but it's not a fact that we need to have in the lede of this article. BMK (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you are taking the wrong approach. The article is called "Tin Pan Alley".  More than one place is called "Tin Pan Alley".  It's perfectly reasonable, in my view, for both the original NY location, and other locations, to be mentioned in the article lede.  In any case, whether I and other editors are right,. or whether you are right, it needs to be discussed on the article talk page – not here, or on other editors' talk pages, or through edit summaries.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for words of encouragement
Thank you so much for words of encouragement to both I and TheGracefulSlick your expressed on my talk page. Your pointers have been so crucial. I appreciate the support that you always seem to give to new editors. It is also reassuring to have an editor of your stature who understands the value of articles done on obscure musicians and artists--you have voiced objection to the deletion of numerous carefully-made articles that might have otherwise fallen by the wayside at the hands of "deletionists." And also, thank you for your interest and editing work in so many of the specialty music genres such as garage rock. Wikipedia is now a better place as the result of your tireless efforts over the last decade. By the way, keep it up--you're only just getting started--your best work is yet to come! Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Notability
Hi Gymyrtle - I am a new user to Wikipedia and I'm hoping to better understand notability guidelines. You weighed in on this AfD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Esther_Gordy_Edwards and I wanted some clarification if you could, please. In the linked AfD for instance, I guess my confusion stems from her notability as a business manager is only notable because the business itself is notable. Does the CEO of every notable company deserve his or her own article simply because they were the CEO? Even if he or she did nothing notable as a CEO? It seems like the cause her publicity after death is largely the result of the position simply being a very publicly visible one because of the well known nature of the company itself. Because of that, it seems like her notability is largely the result of the same principle as WP:INHERIT. I would appreciate any feedback you have! 217IP (talk) 19:15, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This is the wrong place for discussions like that - you should make those points at the AFD page, and others may wish to comment. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:21, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It didn't seem like general discussion of general Wikipedia guidelines as they apply to everyone would be appropriate on an AfD page for a particular person. I will try the Teahouse maybe. Thanks. 217IP (talk) 19:35, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The only general comment I would make is simply that, just because someone who meets the notability criteria in their own right (in terms of independent sourcing, etc.) is related to someone else notable, that does not make them non-notable.  There may be a case to be made to delete articles on some of the more obscure scions of obscure royal families on those grounds, but not for people who were major figures in major international corporations, such as Motown.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:10, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

October Country
I thought this band, October Country, might interest you since their one album was produced by Michael Lloyd, and he even is featured on some of the tracks. They had an interesting "documentary" about them during their brief existence. I don't know, I might write about them, but I thought they were kinda interesting.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 20:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Now I look into this a little, the band sounds rather more interesting than I thought they would be - . Worth an article, I'd say.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I thought so too, I really enjoyed listening to their album. I'm going to try to find enough references, but sometimes it becomes difficult. I wish the album was released on CD, usually they have booklets that give a good history on these types of bands.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:34, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if the review for the Electric Prunes article was concluded properly. It is Garagpunk's first review and, while I believe he has done everything correctly, shouldn't I have been notified of it passing GA? By the way, thanks for the helpful hints and suggestions from today, and, of course, overall.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:07, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Personally I've always tended to avoid things like GA reviews, so I'm not the expert, but it seems to me from this list that the process has only been started, not finished. I'm sure that  will follow the processes set out here - and that, if he doesn't, more experienced editors will point out if he is doing things wrong.  Good luck, by the way!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:15, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I thought so, we had long discussions on some of the ways the article needed to be improved before he wrote the review, so I feel confident that the article is qualified for the status. I feel like a minor template error is the reason I wasn't notified of its GA status.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:32, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the recording by that group. I actually considered writing about the band before, but I never heard their take on the song. Let me know when you finish your article on them so I can read it, thanks again.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * P.S. I though I'd return the favor. Have you heard this version before?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DrH8LWQqhls

It's an interesting take by this group called Opal Butterfly, though I believe it was only a demo version. Worth a listen nonetheless.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I hope I do the review stuff correctly. I wish I was as good with "WP: stuff" as with music, but then I need to get more experience with WP and actually learn how to be a "real editor."  I've got to make the craziest admission: I never actually intended to be a Wiki editor (if someone had recommended the idea to me a few years ago, I would have said they were crazy)--I just kind of stumbled into it and it kind of became an addiction.  But, it has now entered bloodstream!  I also need to check out that band, October Country. Garagepunk66 (talk) 01:34, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This is unrelated, but I didn't want to clog up space with another subtitle. Anyways, I have a question with "The Fish Cheer". When you make an infobox do you place details about the first release of the song or the first mainstream release? I ask this because the song was first issued on an EP in 1965, but the current Infobox has it listed when it was featured on the 1967 album, I Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die. Any advice is appreciated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that the infoboxes should be used for notable releases. For instance, where a song has been recorded by several artists, we only provide infoboxes for the most notable versions.  So, my view in this case is that, although the 1965 version came first, it is the 1967 version which became well known, and is therefore the most notable one for inclusion in an infobox.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:34, 2 July 2015 (UTC)