User talk:Ghostbeach

Playing your game
Okay, if you say I can't touch an edit about myself which I consider undue, then how would you go about addressing this if you were the subject? Consider the following edit you made to the lead of History of Chicago, where I replace my name with yours: "The city formed the political base for leaders such as Stephen A. Douglas in the 1850s, Adlai Stevenson in the 1950s, Ghostbeach in the 1980s, and Barack Obama in recent years." This would obviously be vandalism. But you argue that removing it would not be within your user rights. I don't know the answer to that, and the question should be asked at the COI userboard, as we have differing opinions about removing or not removing those which are, to me, ridiculous additions. So please stop this game and remove the four extremely point-of-view edits, which have no proportional basis in reality, from the four Chicago pages. This would show that you have understanding of due weight and are here to build and not vandalize the encyclopedia or to abuse fellow Wikipedians with threats, "Final warnings" and the like. Wouldn't now be about time that you start your WikiRehab in earnest? Self-reverting those four edits could help to show that you can understand undue weight and WP:NPOV. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:36, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I see an editor has now removed the undue edit from Political history of Chicago [EDIT:and two others, you still have a chance to revert the History of Chicago page in good faith], glad that at least one of those pages is semi-watched. By your showing that those four pages have kept such extremely incorrect information for weeks at a time exposes a hole in Wikipedia which you, as an editor, should maybe want to fix and not contribute to. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:07, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

<!-- Final warning, next time you COI with your own name in mainspace, some of your unrelated edits will be reverted in tandem with the Chicago COI stuff. Ghostbeach (talk) 04:56, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello ,

Henceforth, if you encounter an account adding content about you to mainspace, please refrain from "attacking" the user talk page of the account in question, as it usually misleads others into the false belief that there is a COI in play of you supporting and advocating for said content (when in fact it's very much the opposite, you seem to be trying to reduce the amount of content about you in mainspace, not add).

Instead, you may challenge edits and voice your objections at the relevant article talk page and ping the involved account there for discussion, thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Kind regards, Ghostbeach (talk) 08:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Please stop spamming and misusing my name across leads and texts of unrelated pages, which I have no understanding of why you would do that. The result of this is that the only good addition, the Prathia Hall edit, will be removed for vandalism along with the rest of them. Please revert them all except for Hall in case you want to actually save a good edit with good content. At times you seem to want to attach good edits, yet at others, like this, you seem to want to harm my reputation on Wikipedia. Can we have an honest discussion of why you would want to do that? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:28, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure what there is to discuss, as everything is sourced and in good faith, no intention whatsoever to harm your reputation. Maybe it's possible to discuss and/or edit some sort of compromise regarding language of the content, but wholesale deletions of sourced good-faith additions seems unfair and also reeks of COI. (See also WP:Consensus - for a way we can resolve this).
 * Seriously? The lead sentence: "Politics in Chicago through most of the 20th century was dominated by the Democratic Party, and in the last few decades of the century by Randy Kryn." That's pure vandalism, drawing weird attention to me, and of course vastly incorrect (I barely made a tiny Tampa Bay-like forward line blip in Chicago politics, at least sourced). Come on, man, as Joe Biden would say. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well then if you have objections to that, what specific modifications do you propose?
 * Objections? No, I did not shape Chicago politics for the last few decades of the 20th century (although, maybe the 1980s....ha). Modifications would be to revert everything Ghostbeach (see, a great name which will probably be banned for that Chicago politics lead alone when you could actually use it) except the Prathia Hall thing which is arguably correct and fits the page (I could tell you more of the story about that but promised your only friendly admin not to go into bio stuff when it could be misused for bio). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok then the passage shall instead say "Randy Kryn shaped Chicago politics in the 1980s". Maybe you should be grateful that no edit runs were made on the Political history of Chicago section, even though it was mighty tempting to do so.
 * Jesus Mary and Joseph (especially Joseph), please stop. I was joking (kind of...?) but even if I was, for example, being serious, that would be pure original research using a joke talk page comment to change the lead of an article for no good reason but to shame me. You know that's vandalism. And how did I in any way corrupt Chicago politics? By the way, I'm glad Buffalo won, and will probably watch if they get into the league championship game. Tonight, Brady adds to his records! (maybe not with a win unless he does it with his pin-point arm alone and his guys don't drop more than half of those, but with yardage, hopefully a TD pass or six...) Randy Kryn (talk) 12:09, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well if you believe that, then what changes do you propose?
 * None except remove my name from all those pages, nothing sourced is useable as encyclopedic content except for probably Prathia Hall which may then actually save that mention (although I don't know what was printed in the book about Hall, can you find the language via the source? If you can I can go further into it, thanks). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This from the Hall page "On October 28, 2000, Hall was interviewed by Civil Rights Movement historian Randy Kryn; this interview would be utilized in a biography written about her by Courtney Pace, titled Freedom Faith: The Womanist Vision of Prathia Hall.[17]" makes sense except I don't know the content of the Pace book. Sincere and heartfelt thanks for finding that, I had no idea of its existence and what is mentioned, although my interviews with Hall did touch on the speech but I don't remember them being used in a book. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:22, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know in great detail what's in that book either, but the bottom line is that what matters is that content is verifiable, not necessarily verified; essentially, it doesn't matter that the details have necessarily been verified, just that they can be verified if someone wishes to challenge it, kinda like the red challenge flag thing in football.
 * True about the Hall interview, so I guess if that's reverted it can be "contested" and red flagged (did you see Kevin McCarthy come in waving the red card when he was about to be elected House speaker?). I'll have to find a copy of that book, and maybe order one from Abebooks if they have any. I'm itching to discuss it with you, nobody has ever asked me about the interview unless I spoke with Pace but have no memory of it, because being able to talk to Hall about whatever we talked about (see being true to my word) before she died was beautiful. But I can't because you'd probably go spam it into Tom Brady's lead or something. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * By the way, Ghostbeach is a great user name, and a good name for a short story or Stephen King novel. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:38, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I see Ghost Beach is a name of a band and a Goosebumps book, but not as one word which is the nice spin on it. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:40, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I had a nice big comment all set to go only to get lost in an edit conflict, ugh (maybe I should copy big comments before publishing, because once you try publishing, there's no going back to a version that lets you access it again)
 * Thanks, though I prefer Mrbeastmodeallday, this one is probably #2 best for me.
 * I actually wasn't aware of either of those meanings, it was actually influenced by a song I like (kinda wanna learn the piano chords), click HERE to listen to it and add feedback, thanks.
 * Aha, a chance to tell you how to rescue an edit from an edit conflict (I lost many of these too before finding this, my computer ignorance again): just schroll down the edit conflict notice and at the bottom of the page will be "your copy" which wasn't uploaded, complete and ready to cut and paste. I learned chords once but forgot quickly, it goes into the same "learning disability" or probably "learning blessing" I have of not being able to understand what a part of speech is (was sent to summer school at least once and maybe twice because I couldn't understand how to diagram a sentence, it makes no sense to me, and they finally let it pass). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:59, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * added note: while failing English in high school because I couldn't diagram a sentence I was clocking in at 99.9% reading comprehension, teachers couldn't understand it but maybe some aspect of some spectrum wasn't a thing at that time. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If Ghostbeach is one of your favorites then you are a poet. Nice. The Mr.BeastModeAllDay thing is cool but hopefully not your all-day emotional state (yikes), if so I'd again suggest fully Vitamin C'ing and hydrating - a combo which should be broadcast like a call signal on TV and highlighted in every presidential speech. Hiding those two things from the public is criminal (and gangsterish), although I see both are gradually making their way into public consciousness and Brady may be somewhat responsible for the hydration awarenss bless his pinpoint accuracy soul. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:10, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * oh thanks, I assume that means you feel the song lyrics are good poetry, yes? ok, you've mentioned that health advice before.
 * No, the name itself is poetry, 'Ghostbeach'. Of course every word is poetry in some form, but some are better aesthically than others (or maybe not). I just saw the Government of Chicago edit, you know that's vandalism, right? If not then you'll never be able to hold an account here without messing it up somehow, you are just a few steps away from having a good account which nobody argues with or bans, can we talk about that? That council has a backstory and I really never followed up on it, so isn't worthy of a mention anywhere let alone on such a page. Yeah, I push advice too much when it could help, hydrate hydrate hydrate etc. I met a woman once with beautiful skin who was in her late 30s and when I found out her age commented on it, and she had been fully C'ing since she was 23. It's a wonder drug because we all have a major but easily curable genetic illness. Okay, I'll (try) to stop commenting to you about it. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:21, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * did you listen to the song? And no, that's not vandalism, it's a legitimate good-faith addition of sourced relevant content. If you wanna see actual Wikipedia vandalism, hang out at the abuse log, you'll come across your fair share of real vandalism multiple times per minute. I also don't understand why you're just now starting to make a fuss about all of this, this is not the first account to be adding content about you, there were already at least a dozen or so pages that had nice encyclopedic content about you added to them long ago, the grievances and objections would've been better filed then, at this point, you're trying to stop a train that's already moving at full speed.
 * [added by copy-pasting from the bottom after an edit conflict notice, and no, I don't know of other pages besides that 1968 one, eek] No, didn't know it was a song. Not vandalism in one sense, but inappropriate for the page both by topic (Government of Chicago isn't about individuals, seems to be a page about offices) and due weight (the topic, Kryn, has no importance to the government of Chicago). What this does is focus attention on the editor who added it, and that's how they've been finding you, as well as being anywhere close to my name in edits or user page although it's enjoyable at times writing to you like this but any account you want to keep should not contact me or use my name anywhere. You've overcome the reason you were wrongly (in my opinion) indeffed, the tendency to wall of text, and with just a few more wikijustments you've got it. Moving pages, undue weight edits, combatting fellow editors superbowl CCXI-like, too many edits at one time so page watchers quit checking them and automatically revert, easy stuff like that and they eventually circle around to edit wars and bans and whatnot. On a topic like Bevel I can take responsibility for your good sock edits but would like to see you have at least a fully functional account that I'm not aware of that thrives with awards etc. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:41, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * if you're not aware of such an account, then how would you end up seeing it? (which is what you say you'd like)
 * Don't care for awards (except maybe the gesture and thought behind it, like when your Founding Fathers buddy Gwillhickers hands me the registered editor award after creating a new account, that's a very kind gesture and much appreciated); I enjoy things for the process and the intrinsic merit.
 * I have more than enough self-confidence, self-esteem, and self-awareness (at least out here in the WP space) to need awards to compensate or make-up for such things, I know I'm a competent skilled creative writer and editor (who occasionally makes good-faith mistakes and/or lets my humanity get the best of me), and I just can't force myself to care much about awards or barnstars etc. Interesting thing is that our discussions are far more rewarding to me than any external awards, so thanks for that. And believe it or not, I've actually read pretty much all of your comments about me to others and that's the big thing that's kept me going because you've always rooted for me and defended and supported me in that way, otherwise I would've quit a long time ago.
 * Edit conflict add, same here about process and merit and barnstars, see, you are a poet. Thanks, that's maybe my best compliment on Wikipedia, I enjoy these talks as well and you are valued but like a bull in a china shop when you throw caution to the wind and don't care about getting banned, see comment....here Yes, a Catch-22 (or rather 211). I actually hope you have dozens of good ones I'm not aware of, which means you know when you cross the line that admins focus on and are just making major mistakes when you want to be found out. I hope you are one of the other editors at a major founders collection page, that'd be nice. You've taught me a lot about Wikipedia editing, I've said that before, and hopefully you have a great long-term account editing (but if not then maybe it's worth a discussion of how-to do so, with myself and a friendly admin or two who wouldn't immediately jump into a ban so as to let a productive discussion play out). Randy Kryn (talk) 13:57, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I actually don't really care about most things (let alone on WP) because most things really don't matter. WP:IAR is in my blood, and I came to learn that very quickly after I was "banned", it's probably just part of being born and bred in urban California, a cultural thing. Letter of the law means nothing, it's the spirit of the law, always, and breaking laws for the greater good if need be (just like MLK). When I personally know people who have been victimized by war bombings, and involved in gang violence, or a child who's father is imprisoned, or their relative committed suicide, everything comes into clear perspective, and most of the WP stuff just really doesn't matter. I'm just here to do what I do, and I don't care a whole lot what anyone else thinks, like the sock tags, and "bans", etc (except you to a certain extent, you are a very wise person with a great deal of wisdom to impart, so I do sometimes wonder your perspective on things to some extent)

Yes, life is like that and I know what you mean (I did hang out with some of the major gang leaders in Chicago, they were part of the Bevel campaign, and I practically lived in Chicago's inner-city for much of a few year period knowing Bevel. And other stuff, except knowing anyone injured by a war bombing unless you count my dad - a truck he was driving was turned over by a bomb in World War II, he got the purple heart but luckily wasn't hurt except for adding to the veteran-common PTStress. OK, I'll stop lecturing about Wikipedia morales and ways, just think of Wikipedian's as fellow club members and you may ease off on them). Now, the not-caring about most things bit, of course not, the sum of most things is enormous and nobody cares about most things (into poetry again). But you care enough to want the Founders page to be perfect, which is enough for me. As for King breaking laws, nope, that's a common misconception, neither King nor Bevel broke one law except for maybe minor trespassing when Bevel sat-in at those lunch counters. Laws are hard to break when acting totally in nonviolence, even the children in Birmingham broke no laws but were arrested just for walking on the sidewalk on their way to City Hall. Check out the photos of the Selma march known as Bloody Sunday, they were walking on the Edmund Pettus' bridge's sidewalk and not on the bridge's street. These new "protesters" blocking streets and highways have no to little functional knowledge about the science of nonviolence or care to find out - you know who is nonviolent, the protester who would stand nonviolently between the police and protesters trying to harm or even intimidate them, but there are none of those that I know of. You can actually do that the next time a California semi-riot is about to break out. But no, King broke no laws that didn't get overturned becasue of what he and othere did. This comment getting too long (wall of textwise). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:34, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You're right (about the last sentence), about halfway through reading your comment I had a hard time constructing a reply that would extend this discussion, but maybe as I reflect and take a step back between editing sessions, I'll have something to say in a future session. For now, gonna do a "Randy Kryn-related partial overhaul" at History of Chicago, enjoy.
 * Exactly, wall of texts suck and I don't read many of them. From what you say and how you act you and Jim would have gotten along very well. He was not a flower-child type of activist, he couldn't be to do the things he did. He said he had to have such high emotional energy to be able to turn his anger and hate into nonviolent correct societchanging action, that is the key to Bevel as taught to him by Gandhi's writings and later Reich's writings. The birth of the Selma Voting Rights Movement was when the jerks blew up the Birmingham church and killed the four little girls, Bevel and Diane Nash were all set to give up nonviolence and find them and kill them, he was all set to do that, then only after many hours remembered Wilhelm Reich, and then Gandhi, and it took him mere minutes to come up with a strategy to obtain the right to vote (which didn't pan out because King wouldn't go along with it, but he and Nash moved to Alabama with James Orange and they put on-the-ground organization into it and then the 1965 Selma movement eventually emerged and...wall of text again). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:48, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That last message isn't as wall-of-texty, actually easier to read and follow because it has more of a straight linear flow, compared to the previous one which seemed (from my perspective at least) to jump around, I wouldn't mind if you write and share more about some of those big CRM events
 * Good point on how wall-of-text works. Both philosophically and practical definitions of the "wall". Thanks for not minding my CRM ramblings, it's possible you are a nonviolent activist at heart who understands that "emotions" are nothing more than chemical reactions in the body and even getting a slight handle on those does wonders. Yeah, Bevel had to be able to run the Selma movement and be able to bravely ride a bike through the main Selma streets at the same time (have you been there? the area where the action took place counting movement churches, movement locations, and the bridge was quite small, and, otherworldly-but-not coincidence, contained Edgar Cayce's photography studio/apartment where he started doing his readings). Here's a good story. Bevel was dressed in his usual jeans and was sweeping out the Selma movement headquarters church when reporters came in asking to talk to the movement's leader. Someone pointed out Bevel, working at sweeping, and the reporters thought that they were being punked and stormed out. lol while typing this (I only write lol when actually doing so). Randy Kryn (talk) 15:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * the sweeping story is interesting, he must've been humble to take that on. By the way, do you ever edit Chicago-related pages? You seem to focus on topics that are more abstract like films, art, Tom Brady, and Founding Fathers, as opposed to things more practical that you seemed to live in such as Chicago history and politics. (for the purposes of this discussion, I exempt the James Bevel page since you seem to only edit when someone else does first, not really taking much initiative)
 * Not at all, he always saw work that needed to be done and did it. Bevel was never into titles or getting credit but just doing the job, and when I or anyone would ask him about how known-history had ignored him he explained how that made no difference to him and ran the prophet in his own country line. I don't think I've ever even read the Chicago or Chicago political articles, been there done that type of feeling and not needing to go back (I may have edited Chicago but if so probably something to do with art). Now the Art Institute of Chicago, now you'll cooking, and I should edit that page with some attention at some point, love that place (used to pay a quarter to get in). Randy Kryn (talk) 15:42, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know why but somehow I feel a partial urge to wikiforce you to focus on Chicago-related pages (by reverting your edits on irrelevant pages), maybe because it would be more enjoyable to collaborate with you on some of those pages. By the way, I noticed the new facelift/overhaul of your user page, and it actually looks better.
 * That's the thing, purposely reverting a good edit is Wikiviolence, and to me is vandalism and goes against everything Wikipedian (except for that cat). Even one minor one is enough to get my attention as a ping, but then maybe put it back after I answer. Will look at a Chicago page (Art Institute of Chicago? ha) but don't feel pulled toward any and that's usually how I edit - if I actually feel repelled by a page I keep away from it and there are some topics I won't edit. Will be going off line until evening soon, it's been enjoyable hanging with you here, and hopefully this user page will still be here and not banned by the time I return if a non-friendly admin drifts along. Just remembered, Dallas-Tampa Bay tonight, nice to look forward to. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:07, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should say that out loud to the United States regulars, and the random peeps who hound my contributions after being blocked and start mass-reverting. Tamzin has actually gotten more chill about that and at least has enough dignity and decency to lay off the post-block reverts on me these days if she finds my account, so props to her for that. I actually kinda hated her before, but have to come to realize that she's actually principled and sensible in her own rather unusual way, and seems to be trying to help me out within the bounds of what she's allowed to do as an admin, a taskmaster of sorts. Also seems the three of us have gradually progressed into an unspoken negotiable agreement whereby I'm not really banned anymore so long as I stay off United States, Founding Fathers, and James Bevel. If I may ask, what specific topics/pages won't you edit? (kinda curious)
 * By the way, there are other friendly admins, she's just the main one who has "known" me the longest. It's refreshing when an admin randomly pitches in to assist with small edits (links, commas, image size, etc) to improve and enhance my work on a page I'm working on; Zzyzx11 and Shirt58 come to mind as prominent examples of that.

Disruptive editing
After I reverted your edit to Thomas E. Ricks (journalist), I looked over your contributions and reverted several other similar edits. I could have saved myself some time by just reading your talk page. I don't know what your relationship to Kryn is, but these gratuitous additions to articles are disruptive. Schazjmd  (talk)  16:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi thanks for expressing the concern, but the edits are not objectively disruptive nor gratuitous even if they may be in your opinion, (there is a WP biography article draft underway with 32 reliable sources, so the subject is certainly notable enough to be on Wikipedia mainspace), the subject hasn't tried to influence me to install them, you and I just happen to disagree due to differing perspectives and opinions. I hope this helps your understanding. Best, Ghostbeach (talk) 16:33, 16 January 2023 (UTC) -->