User talk:Giano II/archive 1

Easton Neston
I know a good Easton Neston story: Gervase Jackson-Stops, when quite a young fellow, was staying at Easton Neston. He and young Hesketh got frisky before lunch and Jackson-Stops cleared a large free-standing sofa with a single jump. Unluckily there was a large Chinese vase standing behind the sofa, which caught Gervase's foot, and over went Jackson-Stops and vase with a crash. When the company came out from luncheon, the shards had been swept away, and the vase's matching pair had been brought out from storage to fill the empty space... gulp! --Wetman 16:07, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nicholas Hawksmoor
Hiya, Gi, I would have unthinkingly assumed Hawksmoor was much better-known than Vanbrugh today, with all the London churches. He's not? Not that we on the permafrosted margins hear a lot about who's in and who's out, but H. would at least do well in a poll of literary types, on account of Peter Ackroyd's novel Hawksmoor.--[[User:Bishonen|Bish (Bosh)]] 23:19, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Don't bother with the Poll page, John Vanbrugh isn't there any more. I've vandalised your userpage to show its current status. :-)--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 08:12, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Iain Sinclair is another big fan of Hawksmoor. In fact, there is a case for the idea that Ackroyd stole much of his novel from Sinclair's Lud Heat and Suicide Bridge books (I've read all three books and reckon Ackroyd deserves 6 months, but Sinclair publicly forgave him). Filiocht 09:41, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

You didn't emigrate?
glad to see you're back!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 18:11, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * So didya have a frenetic time, ya nut? I've been spit-polishing Restoration comedy, I self-nominated it on FAC today! It's not nearly so much fun without you, though. Maybe you want to insert a coupla buildings in the article? ;-) Christopher Wren designed the Restoration playhouses, and one of them held 2000 people, you want to work on that?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 20:47, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Nobody else took the trouble to tell me which images, thanks, Giano! I see now what those two and the Rose of Prose have in common that is different from the other Restoration comedy images, and I've told the people on FAC just now. You'd think one of those techie types would go to the article and just fix it, seriously. It wouldn't take a developer at all.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 00:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Edward Lovett Pearce
I like the article, seems accurate and a fair assessment. No images to add, I'm afraid. I may return to it later with a couple of additions. Filiocht 08:57, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Palladian architecture
You've done a great job with what was an unpromising stub, unworthy of its subject. I've tweaked to tighten, added a couple of bibliographical notes. What's missing here is the English (and Irish) palladian villa, which I'm working on now. --Wetman 17:52, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I've added some text to Architecture of Ireland which may point towards some additional material on Irish palladianism. Filiocht 10:56, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for yours. I've changed headers in the Irish article. You'd be just the man to write biographies of Francis Johnston and James Gandon. Filiocht 13:49, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

I made a small grammatical copyedit on one of your comments in Talk:Palladian architecture. Forgive my presumption, but I think it makes your meaning clearer. JHCC 15:10, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Air? IRC?
Am I on the air? You mean on irc? I just went there to look, but didn't see you.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 20:16, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

FAC
Check out the FAC page, please excuse my audacity in nominating your article.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 20:35, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Odd people on my page
What can I say, my acquaintanceship includes sentient life forms from several parts of the galaxy.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 20:45, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What on earth is wrong with them?
Yeah!! It's been up there for, like, years, and only one support vote yet, what can be going on?! It's not as if the article would take more than 15—20 seconds to read!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 21:59, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Great article and a pleasure to vote for. Filiocht 08:52, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Richard Cassels
Thanks for the kind words. Always glad to help out a fellow admirer of architecture, historical and modern. I do have some questions about the content in the Richard Cassels article that I hope you can help me out with. Please bear with me...


 * 1) On the last sentence of the last paragraph in the Early work section, it says, "Walls were covered in stucco reliefs, ceilings triumphs of plaster, segmental mouldings, and carvings, in an almost rococo style peculiar to Ireland." I'm unfamiliar with the term ceilings triumphs of plaster – can you please explain or correct this?
 * 2) Legacy to Ireland – This last paragraph appears to be a bit too... literary? It's fine for an essay but doesn't seem appropriate for an encyclopedic entry. Mind if I trim this down?

--Junesix 03:50, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

Hitler image
Dracula, does you Hero of Socialist Labor gold star look like a photo of Hitler, by any chance? If it does, it's not your page that's been vandalized, it's the image it links to. I have reverted the vandalism of the image. If your page still shows Hitler, click shift + Refresh to clear the cache, and you should (I hope) see the star again. Best, [[User:Bishonen|Bish (Bosh)]] 18:28, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * OK, now try my advice four or five times. Hmmm? Yeah, I knew you'd think I was kidding, but actually, no. I was indignant at the ridiculousness of the proceeding myself, but Carl explained to me that multiple cache-clearing worked and why, I won't burden you with the why (still feeling a little faint after he burdened me with it, the young have no consideration).--[[User:Bishonen|Bish (Bosh)]] 19:32, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

House of Lords
The relationship between the judicial functions of the House of Lords, the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights is quite interesting.

On-going British legal cases can be referred to the ECJ for a "preliminary ruling" on the interpretation of any EC law relevant to the case, but the ECJ simply rules on the interpretation of the EC law and leaves the application of that interpretation to the case to the domestic court. (In interpreting EC law, the ECJ also has regard to Convention rights too, where they are relevant.) Barring a few exceptions, such as challenging actions of the European Commission, British citizens can't start cases in the ECJ; in any event, British cases can't be appealed to the ECJ, "in desparation" or otherwise.

EC law could be considered to be a form of "superior law", in the sense that EC law will override incompatible UK law and the ECJ tells us what the EC law means, but only because we accept that that is the case (see below). The effects of the Convention are rather less concrete.

British citizens (subjects, if you prefer) can "in desperation" apply to the ECHR once they have exhausted their domestic legal options, but they can't appeal from a British court to the ECHR. The case in the UK would probably be "person versus person", but the case in the ECHR will be "person versus the UK", arguing that the UK has failed to guarantee the person's Convention rights: the ECHR rules whether the person's rights have been infringed, and, if so, the finding may be sufficient on its own, or the ECHR may order some (usually rather nominal) compensation; the UK considers itself bound in honour to pay any compensation and to deal with legal problem than has caused the infringement, but the ECHR has no real legal ability to enforce its rulings. Following the Human Rights Act, the UK courts can apply the Convention, but they can't overrule UK legislation that contravenes Convention rights: they can only make a declaration of incompatability.

Parliamentary supremacy is a basic tenet of the uncodified British constitution: while Parliament could always repeal the European Communities Act (referring not just the EEC, but the ECSC and Euratom too) and the Human Rights Act, but in the meantime we seem to have elevated European Commmunity law and the European Convention on Human Rights to the position where they are effectively entrenched - the doctrine of implied repeal, for example, doesn't seem to apply.

I agree that many people think that there are European courts that are in some way superior to the House of Lords, but I don't really think that is the case. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:56, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, apologies for teaching you to suck eggs :) -- ALoan (Talk) 20:04, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Not offended at all - just somewhat concerned that you may be offended at my puerile analysis. Given your expert knowledge (I am a humble tax lawyer, so what do I know), I suppose you have no inclination to help along the many articles referred to above? -- ALoan (Talk) 20:10, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, first of all, it was mostly written by User:Lord Emsworth; but in any event, it is about the House of Lords, not the judicial functions of the House of Lords, so I think we can forgive the article for not discussing the finer points of the relationship of the House of Lords, as a final court of appeal, with the ECJ and ECHR. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:34, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your very own Nobel Prize
How's this?--[[User:Bishonen|Bish (Bosh)]] 22:17, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Der Führer
You're welcome. - Fredrik | talk 08:30, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Poor old Dracula
Alas for poor old Giano on a zimmer frame, what pathos there is in seeing you dodder on about Reginald Maudling, of all people, while I am at the same time commenting with youthful zest on a music album (just below Reginald Maudlin on WP:FAC)! (Well, admittedly a Beatles album from just about the heyday of Reginald Maudlin, but never mind about that.)--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 19:43, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You mean your parents leave you all alone sometimes? That's brilliant, do you microwave your own dinner and everything?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 20:31, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * P. S. Your typically adolescent request for more sex in Reginald Maudling, of all places, gives you away, you know!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 21:17, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Culture of the United Kingdom
I would love to write sections on architecture, on John Vanbrugh etc, but unfortunately I don't feel I know enough about the subject. If you want to insert a section on architecture feel free to do so - the best place for it is directly before "sociological issues", or send me some text and I'll add it; likewise the theatre section is disgracefully short so some stuff there would be good too. You don't have to British to edit the UK collaboration, just interested.

On the subject of the artwork of Hirst or other recent artists I don't know where to find copyright free images, otherwise I'd be happy to insert something inthe art section. I'll peruse around and see what artists I can find and see what fits.

-- Graham &#9786; | Talk 20:04, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I've even gone and inserted a section header for Architecture, between Art and Science. Go on, just a paragraph on it, you know you want to... -- Graham  &#9786; | Talk 20:08, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Ok ok I've started to, but it won't appear on the page for a wee while because I have to keep looking things up: it's not a strong subject of mine... -- Graham &#9786; | Talk 20:58, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * There you go then, I make no apologies for what's there, as I have explained already architecture is not a strong subject of mine. Feel free to edit/expand/delete/kill text at will, but please remember that the section is supposed to be a summary of the main points, rather than a complete history. -- Graham  &#9786; | Talk 21:33, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Hey, Giano, I saw you're starting an Immigrants' Collab group, i. e. yet another UK culture group not containing me, nice going!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 21:41, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Intellectual Latins
Oh, OK, you want a really small group. I quite understand.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 22:00, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Our new collab
And now you expect me to say Charles II's. Not gonna happen.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (Talk)]] 18:17, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Reginald Maudling
Would you now reconsider your vote for featured atricle on Reginald Maudling I've removed valentine's day, but alas can find no sex 213.122.195.196 13:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

My award
Thank you very much, that's a beautiful, uh, instrument.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 16:43, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gary the Guide
Aw, no, please don't abscond to Italian wiki, Dracula! You might try paying a visit to Foreign Bishonen if you must have a break from anglophilia. Everybody's ancient over there.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 17:55, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Framåtriktad!
Inte en smula god begreppen? Not at all, you're much too modest as always. We will all go framåtriktad when we go!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 21:44, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah... ? Bishonen sleeps with the fishes... ? (You sent your boys? :- The well! Of course, glad to, Bishonen does sleep with the babelfishes, arrividerci in the fountain!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 22:43, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Like a native
Oh, no, sure you do! I blame myself entirely, for the ethnic stereotyping. A good Sicilian boy tells me to sleep in the well, and all I can think of is cement ancle-bracelets? Shame on me.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 13:41, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Var kom babelfisken ifrån?
Bien sur comme un native, most impressive en smula god begreppen! Vous êtes un linguist naturel. Var kom babelfishsvenskan ifrån? Frutti di mare!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 16:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Verdammt
Nein, ich meine überhaupt nicht das das Kultur UK FAC-fertig ist, seine Freund G muss den Verstand verlieren haben. Hoffentlich wird er nochmals überlegen, und noch ein bisschen warten, vielleicht ein Jahr. Es freut mich, or perhaps mir, zu hören, das die Italienische Familie ihre schöne Kinder so sehr indulgt, das machen auch wir hier ins Permafrost, die Anglo-American standards sind nicht die default option für die ganze Welt. Mein Gott, Deutsch is eine sehr schwierige Sprache, verdammt. Je regrette extremement l'absence de Enid Blyton. Culture of Foreign est aussi un page formidable. Au revoir,--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 18:20, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Congrats
Great to see that Palladian architecture made FA status. Another one for the culture vultures. Filiocht 08:59, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

Congratulazioni
Articolo eccezionali prima pagina, framåtriktad!--[[User:Bishonen|Biziono (talk)]] 18:27, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Darn it, I almost got that, I practically understood the whole thing, except the question mark. I think it's wonderful that you're trying to branch out linguistically, at your time of life. Are we ready for the cuneiform Esperanto now?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 22:10, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I just saved a major addition to Culture of Italy, 5 seconds before I saw your request on my page!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 22:25, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually not meant that way, you Volvo flamer
Dracula, when you read me as deliberately insulting you, you are normally correct, but this time I only meant to say that such a formulation of an article name was unlikely. There probably already is some article that fawns on the gas-guzzling road monstrosities you take pride in, somewhere on Wikipedia, but Automobiles of Italy sure ain't it. Anyway, you focus on the wrong thing here, how about the new sentence? And when is God going to become Italian, I'd like to see it.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 23:07, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC) P. S. Since I'm merely expanding William Shakespeare here, of course I'll drop it to attend to a crap Latino stub.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 23:16, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Settled Shakespeare's hash
Hiya, minor UK author William Shakespeare fully taken care of with new article Shakespeare's reputation, may polish off Dante Alighieri next, or perhaps just see how much I can add to Culture of Italy before it gets VfD'd. I admire your new Automobiles of Italy, that one should survive! Have you had any reply about the mysterious diminution of the large Italian family yet? And how many more kids have you got room for in the nice big house, are you going for some sort of record?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 20:36, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Aren't you thinking of Sopranos there?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 16:21, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Calmati
Calmati, Dracula! I've written a book on User talk:Maxx, go join in.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 17:58, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Modernism
Hi, I've been away for a few days, hence the silence. Thanks for your very kind words on WP:FA. Will look at James Gandon later. Filiocht 08:39, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Habsburg Spain
Thanks. I was happy to see it nominated and I'm just glad that the article is getting some attention. I think it should turn out quite well once some citations are added and it gets some more NPOV treatment. Adam Faanes 18:40, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Culture of Italy
Heh. Did you see that Culture of Italy got vandalized (pretty innocently), and was promptly reverted to the flaked-out "last version by Bishonen" by Ahoerstermeier? That's kind of funny. :-) But, well, I suppose the responsible option would be to turn the thing into a Redirect, to Italy.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 23:50, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Earls of Leicester
The title of the present Lord Leicester is "Earl of Leicester, of Holkham in the County of Norfolk", rather than "Earl of Leicester of Holkham", since the "of Holkham" bit is simply a territorial designation and not part of the actual title. The 2nd Marquess Townshend was created Earl of Leicester before succeeding to that Marquessate, but by the time of the creation of the 1837 Coke Earldom his son and heir, the 3rd Marquess and 2nd Earl, would have been 59 and childless, and it would have been clear that he wasn't going to produce anyone to succeed him in the Earldom, so there wouldn't really have been much of a problem creating the title for the Cokes. If there's anything specific confusing you don't hesitate to ask, and I'll try to clear it up. Proteus (Talk) 17:27, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would assume it means "2nd creation in the Coke family" or "2nd creation with a connection to Holkham". It's probably better to use the absolute count and call them "7th creation" or what not. Proteus (Talk) 17:47, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Holkham Hall
Good idea to draw a plan, very helpful. Gotta love the tortuous and discreet route!--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 19:30, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hey! :-)
Hey! Did you see that Palladian architecture is scheduled to adorn the Main page on December 7?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 15:27, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on a fine result! --Wetman 04:34, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

F
F! I hope at least you don't have any problem viewing the Main page tomorrow.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishånen (tåk)]] 22:24, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Richard Boyle, 3rd Earl of Burlington
I have expanded the terse genealogical note into a skeleton recognizable as Lord Burlington, for your entertainment. The list of works is a shaky scaffold I'll come back to. Cheers! --Wetman 04:29, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Palladio
Nice to see it on the Main page today. Filiocht 08:39, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Well done on the Palladian architecture article - and nice to see the local wonderful Holkham Hall mentioned! Best wishes, Bruce, aka Agendum | Talk 10:01, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'd like to see Abbey Theatre there before the centenary year ends. Filiocht 10:19, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * I requested it here some time back. Filiocht 12:44, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * I sometimes wonder if articles on main page shouldn't be protected for the 24 hours they're there. Filiocht 13:26, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Have you recovered from the Main page trauma yet? Some awful changes were made, I noticed. Filiocht 09:54, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think that's an excellent idea - it seems only courtesy to express some respect for the hard work of authors who have toiled (in many cases, single-handedly - or in collaboration with others) on a piece of work which has been commended - before allowing the world and his wife to change it. Bruce, aka Agendum | Talk 13:44, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I suppose you'd get shot for changing all those edits with a summary 'reverting vandalism'? Filiocht 15:41, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Henry Flitcroft
At least he exists now. A shadowy existence. But Matthew Brettingham, John Carr, James Paine... I think the Woods should go as a subsection at Bath, since this is a general encyclopedia. James Gibbs is a glaring omission still. At least there are starts for James Wyatt, Henry Holland, John Soane, George Dance.... --Wetman 17:23, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Holkham Hall
I don't know Holkham terribly well, but I love it when I go there. It's a jewel, especially the view from the gently sloping parkland, looking back at the house. The article is great - I can't fault it.

Only thing is that the two pics are slightly blurred, but that can easily be rectified later.

Well done! Bruce, aka Agendum | Talk 13:51, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Porn on Main page today?
Oh, it's Restoration comedy today, is it? Checking... no, it's Bishonen's sister, Bishojo! Cool! That's taught you the word hentai, I bet.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 14:32, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Holkham Hall
I'm afraid that I don't live that close to Holkham - I certainly wouldn't be visiting until next summer. I recommend getting in touch with Lord Coke or the Promotion Manager at the hall (email address on their website), to ask permission to reproduce any photographs they may have. There may be restrictions on indoor photography by visitors, in any case. Regards, Bruce, aka Agendum | Talk 16:42, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Abbey Theatre
Thanks for giving this the push for main page, and for your note. I hadn't seen the main page until I read the note! Filiocht 08:31, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * I especially liked this anon posting on the Abbey Theatre talk page:
 * Since the Abbey Theatre is the name given to the theatre section of the Amey Hall (which is now the Arts Centre) at Abingdon School, Abingdon, Oxfordshire, UK, is a disambiguation necessary?

If you take out vandals and reverts, very little changed. The secret seems to be pick a subject that is so boring and of such little interest that nobody cares enough to change things. Which should make Lady Gregory the perfect choice, come to think of it. Thanks again for all the support. Filiocht 11:23, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Not modesty, really. But I recognise that if I was working on, say, the Simpsons, there'd be a lot more edits to cope with. Filiocht 13:57, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

Viscount
It was so merely Anglocentric I had to tweak it. Maybe you might cast a practised eye... I--Wetman 09:18, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Rat Park
Hi Giano - I was adding detail to the talk page while you were reverting my fully justified edits. Please wait until you've seen what gets added! - MPF 21:06, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * You made two edits referring to talk page, perhaps you should have referred to the talk page before making the second, then the confusion would not have occurred. If you think Rat Park is in need of Clean Up, then that really must be you point of view, and you should make the point on the featured article candidate page as an objection. Finally, on a talk page it would be helpful if you would place your comments at the bottom of the page where they can be immediately seen.Giano 21:19, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I have made the point on the f.a.c. page. Sorry about leaving an addition in the middle of the talk page, I wanted to reply to a specific point in the paragraph above - that is done by a lot of people, not just myself. Of adding to the talk page first, yes, I guess I should have. - MPF 21:23, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thank you
Giano, thank you for removing the Clean up tag from Rat Park. I didn't get on to Wikpedia until quite late today and so when I saw someone had put the Clean up tag on it, and you had removed it, I just assumed it was vandalism. I couldn't believe my eyes when he put it back again. :-) Anyway, I really appreciate you stepping in like that. I'll be working to improve the article over the next few days.  Best wishes, Slim 06:13, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

Rachelle Waterman
I don't know about the other editors who are commenting on this article, but I find your comments fascinating rather than agitating, for the reason I gave in my last comment on the talk page over there.

Check out the Wikistress thermometer on my user page if you don't believe me. :)

&mdash; DV 13:35, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * So you don't believe my thermometer, eh?


 * As anyone can plainly see, I accepted Khendon's edit without change, so I'm hardly edit warring over this article.


 * For someone who has not made any recent edits to the article in question (have you made any edits?), you seem to be really worked up over such a non-noteworthy article.


 * Please consider the constructive suggestions I made just now in the article's talk page for more efficient ways to accomplish what you are apparently after.


 * Failing that - be bold - feel free to edit the article if you feel so strongly about it. I won't bite.


 * Cheers,


 * &mdash; DV 14:09, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I have made it quite clear to you I think further debate on the subject is futile Giano 17:26, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, suit yourself. if you feel that way. But there really is no reason to feel that debate is futile. Please remember that you are free to edit the article without debating anyone - no one is stopping you from improving the article in question if you have strong feelings about how to do so.


 * Khendon seemed to have no qualms about stepping up to the plate and improving the article how he saw fit. I'm disappointed that you only have feelings that it is futile to debate, rather than just following Khendon's example and simply editing the article to address your concerns.


 * I won't feel the least bit bad if you edit the article. If you make a major edit, I would appreciate it if you would leave a note on the talk page explaining the reasoning behind your edit.


 * It's your Wikipedia too. Don't let me stop you.


 * Cheers,


 * &mdash; DV 20:50, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for finally deciding to move past your declaration of the futility of debating, and getting on with editing the article instead.


 * Given all the edit conflicts I have seen other editors go through over what constituted NPOV, it's quite a change of pace that you gave what you perceive to be a "moral" reason for deleting the photo. I'm not sure how relevant it is to partially rationalize your edit based upon your negative attitude towards the American press. However, if your personal political views lead you to support a sympathetic treatment of the accused murderer, so be it.


 * In the future, I hope you will find that contributing as an editor always feels better than sitting on your hands and criticizing from the sidelines, regardless of any risk you may perceive in doing so.


 * Cheers,


 * &mdash; DV 10:54, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * DV you seem to be adopting a very territorial attitude to the Rachelle Waterman page, I would be grateful if you would cease hectoring me about this issue. I have said all I wish to on the talk page, where you seem to be finding ambiguity where I assure you there is none.  I have expressed myself quite clearly. You obviously wish to have the last word - well you have it! Giano 12:14, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I merely have a different opinion than you do, and I expressed that opinion on the article talk page. I have not reverted your change, and I have encouraged you to edit the article to improve it how you see fit. These are hardly the actions of a "territorial" editor.


 * I am at a loss to understand why you feel bullied or intimidated from editing this article.


 * If you feel victimized by my comments I am sorry. It's simply the nature of a free and open wiki that others will comment upon your edits if they have a different opinion.


 * However, in your case, because you feel "hectored" by my comments, I will make a point to stay out of your way in the future.


 * Good luck,


 * &mdash; DV 08:21, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Chidiock Tichborne
Thanks for the message - if I was funny, it was entirely unintentional. "Execution (legal)" tends to mean something quite different to a transactional lawyer. (I wonder if this chap is related to the Tichborne Case?) -- ALoan (Talk) 19:45, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Oh, and a happy Christmans to you too :) -- ALoan (Talk) 19:46, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * That poor girl again. Well, I agree that the facination is a little morbid, and certain contributors seem to be rather too interested in the topic, but (as this demonstrates) they have different social mores over there.  Strange that there is no apparent motive - it makes you question the whole basis of the charge. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:26, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Little Horwood
Well it was a posh building that had accommodation in it when I went. Having never stayed in anything more than a three star hotel I have nothing to compare it to. -- Graham &#9786; | Talk 22:22, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"istoriato"
Giano, I know that pictorial maiolica of the 16th century was described as istoriato. If pictorially woven textiles are also istoriate would you make a remark to that effect at Weaving (mythology), in the tale of Philomela paragraph about weavers' tales? That would be more than I could do! --Wetman 09:54, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hmm?
Uh, what? We had an edit conflict, or is this in re the previous post on my page?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 14:01, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My epitaph

 * GRAHAM
 * TAYLOR-PADDICK
 * WOZ
 * ERE

-- Graham &#9786; | Talk 14:35, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Benvenuto
Aha, maybe it's possible to edit now, I'll just try. I just sent you an e-mail, did you get it?--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 17:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Lucky bastard
You've just been incredibly lucky with the times you've tried to edit, that's all. The database was locked for several hours (during the hours I wanted to edit), that's the only reason nobody's been reverting stuff.--[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen (talk)]] 17:18, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm now confused about the status of the Country house articles. Your original article appears as The English country house while the version I have started to rework is simply Country House and contains a link to your article.

Are you proposing to preserve your original in article in its old form? I am afraid that there are some significant misunderstandings in it, for example the assertions that "most" country houses were converted from monastic property; that Winston Churchill was the last British politician from the landowning class; and that Northumberland House was the last London "private palace" to be demolished (it was the last of the Tudor and Stuart mansions lining The Strand to be demolished, but Lancaster House, Spencer House, Bridgwater House, Hertford House (home of The Wallace Collection), Seaford House in Belgrave Square and a few other "private palaces" survive to this day). I would not like to see these inaccuracies preserved.

I do appreciate your efforts in writing the original article, and in adding links to my amended framework, but we need to come to a working agreement going forward. If you would like me to leave your article in its original state, it would be courteous to give me a free hand to write a new one in return. But that wouldn't be in the spirit of Wikipedia. We are clearly dealing with the same basic topic, and Wikipedia should have one collaborative article about it, not two competing ones.

I suggest that what we should do is create a main article called The British Country House with a redirect from an otherwise blank article for Country House. If someone wishes to write a European or global overview of country houses in the future, they can simply remove the redirect and take over Country House article. I also propose that in the first paragraph of the The British Country House article, it should be stated that the present article focuses on the country house in the UK, but country houses are also found in many other countries. If you know of any survey articles about the country houses of other countries, we could include links to them (I can't check at the moment because Wikipedia's search function is down).

I can see little benefit in retaining a separate article entitled "The English country house" as it will cover substantially the same ground as the British Country House article. However I do think that there is room for separate articles about Scottish and Irish, and perhaps about Welsh country houses, as these are distinct sub-topics. But I'm not going to start those articles myself.

I am away - I may return - Happy Christmas Giano 19:32, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm now confused about the status of the Country house articles. Your original article appears as The English country house while the version I have started to rework is simply Country House and contains a link to your article.

Are you proposing to preserve your original in article in its old form? I am afraid that there are some significant misunderstandings in it, for example the assertions that "most" country houses were converted from monastic property; that Winston Churchill was the last British politician from the landowning class; and that Northumberland House was the last London "private palace" to be demolished (it was the last of the Tudor and Stuart mansions lining The Strand to be demolished, but Lancaster House, Spencer House, Bridgwater House, Hertford House (home of The Wallace Collection), Seaford House in Belgrave Square and a few other "private palaces" survive to this day). I would not like to see these inaccuracies preserved.

I do appreciate your efforts in writing the original article, and in adding links to my amended framework, but we need to come to a working agreement going forward. If you would like me to leave your article in its original state, it would be courteous to give me a free hand to write a new one in return. But that wouldn't be in the spirit of Wikipedia. We are clearly dealing with the same basic topic, and Wikipedia should have one collaborative article about it, not two competing ones.

I suggest that what we should do is create a main article called The British Country House with a redirect from an otherwise blank article for Country House. If someone wishes to write a European or global overview of country houses in the future, they can simply remove the redirect and take over Country House article. I also propose that in the first paragraph of the The British Country House article, it should be stated that the present article focuses on the country house in the UK, but country houses are also found in many other countries. If you know of any survey articles about the country houses of other countries, we could include links to them (I can't check at the moment because Wikipedia's search function is down).

I can see little benefit in retaining a separate article entitled "The English country house" as it will cover substantially the same ground as the British Country House article. However I do think that there is room for separate articles about Scottish and Irish, and perhaps about Welsh country houses, as these are distinct sub-topics. But I'm not going to start those articles myself.
 * Oh please! just read what you have written - British is all encompasing, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales. Which houses are you planning to write about? Giano 19:22, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Great to see you back, Drac!--Bishonen | Talk 09:08, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Ha, I thought the JV thing would get to you! You've probably guessed by now that it was just a sockpuppet trick of mine to get you to come back. ;-) In any case, we're most likely talking to ourselves by now on Talk JV, the person who made the suggestion hasn't responded to any of the responses. I hope what we say there will have a good effect on others coming along with the same idea, which is bound to happen over and over again. (Grr.)--Bishonen | Talk 09:39, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The image at Luton Hoo
I think the problem is with the server, I've had trouble getting images to display in the article I'm working on, too, even though I know from b efore that they're there. Sometimes reloading several times helps, sometimes not. And right now, from minute to minute, the server will give an overload message and refuse to display a page at all. It's definitely not you!--Bishonen | Talk 13:57, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Eggs, egg shells, and rotten tomatoes
I took a look at our rude novice -- the one interested in Little England -- and I must say that he leads with his chin and likes to hurl slag. From what I can see, the surest ticket to peace is to not care. Let him make changes, change back/supplement/clarify what needs to be, and do not correspond. No good can come of corresponding, so far as I can see. If he cannot edit and treat others with civility, then the best thing is to simply have no words with him. If his changes are erroneous and there is a revert war, list the article on RfC. The biggest thing is to ignore. I say that because it's clear that he's interested in insult and cannot be wrong. People like that are aggravating, even if they're sometimes useful. They make good contributions, sometimes, out of their pride, but they treat anyone else's Christian humility as an excuse to crow, which then leaves others having to respond with full vitriol, and, well, then it's no good. (Read the linked article above, though.) ("British" is not the same as "English," of course.  In fact, the folks of Wales and Scotland are much more British than the English are, as the "Britons" of Caesar were not Norman-mixes.)  Geogre 21:49, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Hi Geogre - Thanks for your comments regarding the Little Englander, regretfully I have to agree with you, the temptation to retort further is enormous, but probably futile. He would probably completely loose it and murder his dog. I am well used to having my grammar and English, and sometimes even views, challenged - but this attack was something new. What is most irksome is he actually appealed for help - perhaps I should have changed my user name to "Fred" to edit so English an article, the other editor was American. However, I don't think that was the problem, he seems to be rude and aggressive to most correspondents on his page. He made the comment he could have written that page aged 14 - I suspect he may have been looking to the future. Thanks for the advice I will heed it. Giano 07:51, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Giano, I came to say essentially what Geogre has said. Trim your Watchlist and enjoy better company. Amusing fellows like me! There's always going to be somebody. Meanwhile, you attention is better spent at Petworth House or Dyrham Park. --Wetman 18:33, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Happy New Year
Happy new year, Drac, I hope you drink some sparkling blood tonight! I don't really mean to recommend you to do an RfC, not at all, it's much more grief than it's worth. I meant more that if you feel you have to do something, it's the only thing I can think of. Dignified silence is your best bet for sure.--Bishonen | Talk 18:26, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * And a Buon Capodanno from the Wetman.