User talk:GloryRoad66/Archive 7

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ALongStay
Please do not message ALongStay any more. I think I have gotten him to back off and not talk to you anymore, but when you talk to him he responds. If he doesn't leave you alone from this point forward let me know. -- GB fan 20:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I will not. Up to now I've just been trying to get this matter over with, but he is persistent and I do not think that he is acting alone.  I thank you for helping me.  I won't message him.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:34, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I saw your latest post to the ani thread. I don't think He was talking about a user called boomerang, i think he was referring to WP:BOOMERANG. You don't have to worry about that, nothing will be coming back against you because of that thread. -- GB fan 22:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I have laid down restrictions, if he contracts you or edits any article that you edit please let me know. He has a final chance to show he can follow the rules. -- GB fan 23:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I appreciate it so much. Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

NPP / AfC
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The Signpost: 15 June 2016
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Music conversion stories
Also, during our time apart, I found some of my favorite garage songs. The Others' "Can't Stand This Love, Goodbye" and Leo and the Prophets' "Tilt-a-Whirl" are incredible. In my opinion, Texas had the greatest garage scene in the 1960s (The Others are from Rhode Island but that's beside the point). It's just these hidden gems like "Tilt-a-Whirl" that make me feel this way. We have record labels like Pharoah Records to thank for that and feisty teens who knew how to groove. Sure there are some hit-and-misses (Smokin' Bananas "Wait Wait" is a good example), but there is so much upside from groups like Leo and the Prophets, the Kavemen, and the Chessmen and so on!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:38, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm so with you there about Texas. You're preachin' to the choir, brother! I love "Tilt a Whirl"...and "Parking Meter" too.  What I dig about 60s gagage... It makes me feel like I'm steppin' on the pedal in a 60s car, going from about 0-60 in ten seconds.  I think good rock and roll should supply that thrill.  I've always loved going on rides at Amusement parks--that thrill of going down the roller coaster.  Garage gives me that thrill...but I you'd be surprised that I only became an aficionado a few years ago, not long before I started writing for Wikipdia.  But, somehow it was always there.  It goes way back.  I always dug stuff like the Who and the Yardbirds.  And, of course I'm an incurable Dylan fan.  I got to see Dylan live at the UNO arena in '89 when he had G.E. Smith in the band.  They were so on that night, I was blown away how magical it was.  Dylan and his band played standing close together on a small plain stage (with minimal lights--kinda dark too--i.e. cool) with some old Fender 60s era amps (cool).  They had this clinging, clanging, sparkling, chiming sound (really cool).  Well, I had an acoustic guitar and always wanted an eclectic.  I noticed Dylan had his Telecaster plugged into a mid-60s Super Reverb amp.  I thought I gotta get something like that.  So, I went to the guitar store.  I played a bunch of Fenders, and they had G&L guitars too, which was Leo Fender's last company (G&L's are true Fenders in my book). I found this American made G&L Legacy (Stat style) that just blew me away. It had just what I was looking for.  I tried it in a few amps.  They had an old weather-worn '65/'66 Fender Super Reverb.  I turned on the amp (you could smell the old vacuum tubes getting hot) and plugged the guitar in.  I started playing the chords, while I turned the pickup selector switch to the bridge pickup (that's the trick--but you've got to have a good guitar) and moved up the bright switch into "bright" on the amp.  I was transported to another world.  Immediately I felt then-and-there: "I'm playing in a garage band, its 1966".  I know the feeling right away.  I bought a slmaller vintage Fender amp that sounded just like it and put the guitar on layaway.  So, when I played at home I played in a 60s garage style.  It's my sound.  I was born to love and play this music.  Sometimes (back then) I'd hear garage records playing on the college radio station and loved them.  But, it took many more years to become an active listener and collector.  I guess I thought for a long time that only "obsessive lunatics" go out of their way to collect that stuff, wonderful though it is.  But, a few years ago I bought the Nuggets box set, then was hooked like a heroin addiction.  I think garage found me before I found it.  It's the craziest thing. So, tell me about your "conversion experience".  What got you into 60s stuff? Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:40, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It probably started when I was 14 and started getting into the band Queen. I noticed their earlier material was better than their 1980s work so I wondered: What was before them (1960s arrives!)? To be honest, I randomly clicked on "Light My Fire" by the Doors while on YouTube simply because it said "1967" (great place to start!). It opened to doorway to fellow California bands and beyond, including my dear Janis. I read into the Doors more discovering a probable influence of theirs is the Music Machine. So began my experience with garage music, going deeper and finding more obscure music from suprising places. It inspired me to pick up the sitar and form a collective of friends to jam with. What I discovered, and correct me if I'm wrong, is I've been the trippy psychedelic and pop half of the two of us, while you have been the punkish and gritty side (with notable exceptions since I noticed you have a folkie side too). I feel it has made this more interesting and easier, since the two halves rarely clash, allowing us to cover more bands in the time we've had.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:44, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Yea, that's how you got the shorthand nickname GS67. The punky 60s garage stuff ties right in with the trippy thing, of course--it is all part of the psychedelic experience--the 60s experience.  It was all an indelible part of people's lives particularly American life--that amongst this sea of tumultuous change, was this last vestige of Norman Rockwell's America in the family garage.  But, that residual innocence of earlier times contributed to the idealism of the 60s, so even say in San Francisco and Woodstock, elements of that Old America still there.  The 60s generation was so different and wanted to make a big departure, yet their idealism would not have been possible if they had not been brought up in a later time.  Janis ties in with all that.  I've consider her stuff with Big Brother to be garage, maybe just a slightly more sophisticated form.  I dig her later stuff too--genius is genius--she had it.  I love so many styles and genres of music--and throughout them all, Janis shines like a beacon. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:24, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * P.S.: Here is a band that I'd love to do an article on, but I thought I'd pass it by you first to see if you'd like to do it instead: Denise & Company. They were led by Denise Kaufman, who later played in the Ace of Cups.  I think she had an affair with, Jann Wenner, the publisher of Rolling Stone.  What do you say? Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sources are a little scarce but it should still have enough to form a sizable article. I still have to catch-up on a backload of bands I've been meaning to write about: Music Emporium, the Sloths, Terry Jack and the Chessmen, etc. so I'll have to pass, but I appreciate the offer.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:12, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Music, etc.
Denise & Company seems like a good prospect for an article, so I don't want you to think I was throwing you a dud. Though I hadn't yet scouted the sources, I saw that they had an AllMusic write-up. I assume that they are discussed in the numerous articles that have been written about the Ace of Cups--so there will be plenty of sources. There is also a bio about them in the liner notes to the "Uptight Tonight" CD. I realize that you have a bunch of other articles, and I know you are busy--it happens that I have a copy of the CD, so if you wish for me to do the article, I could give it a try, but I had just wanted you to have the first opportunity to write it. If you change your mind and want to do it, let me know within the next day or so. I could come in afterward and add biographical details later from the liner notes--just let me know in the next day if you have changed you mind and would like to do it. Garagepunk66 (talk) 18:24, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't feel it is a "dud", I just wouldn't do the article justice when you have more sources available than I do. Since the band only released one single, unless I'm wrong on that, they need all the sources that can be offered from the get go. I don't want to see the article be taken away just because I did not have that one additional source that could change a person's mind on the group's notability.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:35, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we could put the article on hold wait a while. I'll admit I should have scouted it more beforehand, but I believe there will be plenty of sources (the Ace of Cups articles will yield a lot of info)--but maybe we could put it off to later, no hurry.  I'm confidant that Denise Kaufman would probably be considered notable enough to carry the article.  I could put more info in the Ace of Cups article--but Densie & Company were a totally separate act.  Denise used the group, the Answer, from Berkely, as her backing unit.  The Answer recorded the single, "I'll Be In" (great song!--it appeared on Teenage Shutdown and GB66).  While I don't think we'd have enough to do a separate article on that group alone, we could make them an integral part of the Denise & co. article.  Maybe I could create the article under the name the Answer, then move it to Denise and Company, right after as a way to get a disambiguation (I've done that before).  Denise and Company's song "Boy, What'll You do Then?", of course as you know, is on Uptight  Tonight, which is considered, along with Pebbles, to be right below Nuggets in the pecking order, so I don't think the article would be in danger of deletion.  Markesich, in his book,  using with the panel of well-known writers he consulted to rate songs and vote on the top 1000 garage songs of all time (chosen out of more than 16, 000 songs in the book), together rate "Boy, What'll You do Then? " as a 9 out of 10, and rank it at #117, placing it in the top 120 garage songs of all time.  I'd make sure to mention that in the article.  Markesich consulted with Alec Palao, Chris Bishop, Tim Warren, Jeff Lemlich and other garage "gurus" in researching the book, and I believe that all of these people were part of the panel that voted on the songs.  One reason I proposed the article to you is because of Kaufman's  place in the San Francisco scene--she was a big fixture there.  But, I maybe I could do the article (providing good sources--which I'm sure are there), and then you could come in and add some things afterward.  You do the info. box and picture, etc.--and anything more.  But, no hurry we could take some time. Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:12, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * It does not need to go on hold, I just want you to be confident there is enough sources. I found three specifically on the group and one (here: http://www.lysergia.com/LamaWorkshop/AceOfCups/lamaAceOfCups.htm) that offers insight into the whole of Denise's career. It would be nice to get this article in because I've been planning work on obscure San Francisco bands such as Serpent Power, Notes from the Underground, and the Final Solution.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 20:37, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the sources. I haven't started my scouting yet for Denise, but I could check and see what's out there, then, if it looks like there are some good sources, I could start sandboxing it.  Thank, again for the sources. Garagepunk66 (talk) 21:29, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * No problem. You're working on my favorite music scene of all time so I'm glad to help. One day I'm going to go, maybe even live, in San Francisco. I know the beauty of it is not the same as it once was, but to capture a piece of it would be worthwhile. I don't think I've told you this, but a lot of the reason I write about music here is because I like to escape to the time period, as if I was a member of the band. I know that is probably silly, but it can get kinda lonely sometimes with today's times. I'm not into texting, social media, and whatever else is going on so I've always been out of it. Who knows, maybe things will change, but for now we just make due with what we have.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm so with you there--I'm just that way too. It's completely about escape to me--it has nothing to do with being a "proper Wikipedian", although I've embraced that part of it.  I'd imagine that most of the Bohemian scene in San Francisco is long gone.  I'm sure that the city is more beautiful than ever, but I've heard that it is really expensive to live there, even more expensive than New York, so it would no longer be able to support a Bohemian scene. I hear Oakland is now expensive too.  But, I'd love to visit the Bay area. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I guess you've noticed that 60s Garage Bands.com is now down. I sent an e-mail to Chris Bishop over at Garage Hangover.  He told me that there is a good possibility that 60s Garage Bands.com may not be able to come back.  I am hoping that maybe he can do articles on some of the bands that Mike Dugo did the interviews on (you are aware that 60s Garage Bands was Mike Dugo's site--he had stuff in Beyond the Beat Generation too as well).  I might try to contact Beyond the Beat Generation and see if they could transcribe all of the articles.  There is so much that is going to get lost--all of those great music files, etc.  I worry that could hurt our efforts here.  Maybe 60s Garage Bands can make a comeback.  About three years ago, Garage Hangover had to go down for several months, but they had a message that "new site was under construction", whereas that might not be the case with 60s Garage Bands.com.  I hate to report this, but we're going to have to figure out what to do.  By the way, I mentioned your name to Bishop.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 07:23, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Oh, that happened with you too? I thought the website just wasn't working because there was something wrong with my computer. That is a shame I have been holding on two articles in hopes that the website comes back. Does Chris Bishop know why this happened? I wonder if any pre-existing articles we made with his interviews/histories as a source are affected too? I wish I could help but I do not know what I can do. Bishop makes great backgrounds on bands but I'm afraid it would take months, maybe years for him to rewrite all that was lost.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:59, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * He didn't say, but I have a feeling it all boils down to the servers and dollars. I costs a lot to keep the servers going, and maybe there wasn't enough in terms of donations.  Or perhaps Dugo may have retired.  Then, there can be mechanical issues, but in this case it seems unlikely.  I hope there is a way he can get the site up and running again, or that other sites can give substantive coverage to the bands he interviewed.  Maybe he could get help from the Library of Congress, the National Archives, or the Smithsonian.  I personally have felt for a long while that it is high time for those organizations to get involved, because this music and its memories are a national treasure--a vanishing slice of mid-20th century culture that needs to be preserved.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 08:16, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Ghmyrtle showed me a wonderful tool. It may not work in every circumstance, but it did for 60s Garage Bands.com.  It is called Wayback Machine. Wayback Machine  I found an archive of 60s Garage Bands.com there!  Perhaps in a few months, if 60s Garage Bands.com does not come back, we could go back and change all of the url's to coincide with the Wayback archives.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 19:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Betty Hupfer
Hi. Do you know how to create a infobox? Thanks, Alex. Alexmehigan (talk) 04:28, 30 June 2016 (UTC)


 * First, be sure to read the guidelines about infboxes. (see Manual of Style/Infoboxes) I recommend to go to a quality article that is written about a similar topic area and category and use it as a model (see how it was set up in the edit page there).  You are writing about the winner of a beauty pageant, which is different than a singer.  A singer is different than a song.  For instance, if you are writing about a song, then look at a good song article to get cues.  If you are writing about an album, then go to a good album article to see how it is done.  If you are writing about a historical event, then go to a good article about a historical event.  An article covering a historical event is different than one covering a biography of a famous historical person--so make sure you are using the right format.  Each type of article has a different type of infobox setup.  Make sure that you look at an infobox that is properly set up in another article to best help you with the one want to do.  Maybe look up good article written about beauty pageant winners, but it may be helpful to pick winners who went onto successful careers in entertainment, in order to demonstrate that they are notable.  I recommend to look at well-rated articles, not bad ones.  An article rated Good article (GA) has a small green pellet symbol in the upper right hand corner.  A Featured article (FA) is the best kind of article written at Wikipedia--it has a small gold crystal star in the upper right corner.  Go ahead and give it a try.  After you finish the box, I could look at it tomorrow and make any corrections.  Good luck! Garagepunk66 (talk) 05:18, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 July 2016
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Music, articles, etc.
Here is a new thread to discuss music and various topics. Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:54, 25 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Have you ever just searched a song to look for cover versions of it? I have been doing that lately with some garage classics like "Gloria", "Little Black Egg", and "Psychotic Reaction". Personally, for the first song my favorite version is by Patti Smith. On "Little Black Egg", I found an obscure version by a group called the Next Five. I was so intrigued that I contacted the drummer of the group and set up an interview to help make an article. It is more interesting, in my opinion, to find non-charting songs still covered (ex. West Coast Experimental Band's "Smell of Incense"). It makes you wonder: how did they hear it and why didn't more people?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:49, 29 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised it's not the Doors' version of "Gloria" that is your favorite. But, Patti Smith did a great version with Lenny Kaye on guitar.  I would imagine that there are at least 100 or more recorded versions of that song.  I really love the Hangmen's version.  Of course, I love Van Morrison & Them's original.  I saw Van the Man live at Jazzafest this year and he was in peak form.  He has such a stylistic variety and I Love everything he does, although most of his post-Them work is more soul/jazz/whatever else--I love all of it.  But, the cool thing is he did a garage sounding cover of the song "Baby Please Don't Go" at Jazzfest.  A Lot of bands did versions of their "I Can Only Give You Everything".  The Little Boy Blues do a great peppy version.  MC5 did a great rendition too.  The Count Five's original version of "Psychotic Reaction" is so unbeatable--how could anyone match it?  Then, of course there is "Louie Louie", which every Pacific Northwest band did.  The Pink Finks, from Australia do a great version.  Nobody thought that the Kingsmen knew the right lyrics--but they did, they just slurred 'em (see Jack Ely do a presentation  ).  Whereas the Pink Finks, unlike the Kingsmen, didn't--they probably had never heard Richard Berry's original--all they had to go by was Kingsmen's version (with the barely audible "F-word" somewhere in there).  So what did they do?  They add-libbed the whole thing!  Then, there is "Hey Joe"--I think every garage band in the universe band did a that one. Garagepunk66 (talk) 05:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think garage bands had a "big three" when it came to cover songs: "Hey Joe", "Gloria", and "Louie, Louie". The Doors' version is definitely noteworthy, but Smith's seems the most unique and everything down to her pronounciation is well-executed. Some other songs outside of that big three I find are commonly covered are "Tobacco Road", "House of the Rising Sun", and "Stepping Stone". A good cover band, though they did their own stuff too, I think was Don and the Goodtimes. They perhaps made the only credible version of "The Witch" outside of the original. It's a shame they choose a poppier direction later in their career. Bohemian Vendetta recorded some excellent covers too, but I prefer their original songs. I know those two groups are far-apart in direction, but I really dig covers that are a transformation or a re-working of the first version. Taking a song and making it your own is not easy, which is why I respect bands that attempt it (even if they fail!). Although they aren't garage, Vanilla Fudge perhaps exemplify that ideal I have.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:51, 29 June 2016 (UTC)


 * They did a cool version of that Supremes song--in their unique way. Of course, even if you write the song, you can cover yourself...  Dylan's been doing that for so long.  Every time he does a song (for better or worse), it is uniquely different than the version everyone has heard--sometimes even fundamentally different.  The sound of his voice (and perspective) has changed so much over the years, that even if he keeps the same melody and tempo, the song will come out way different.  I just love the way he is always re-interpreting his songs.  Check out Van Morrison and Bob Dylan playing together circa 1984.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:59, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

I haven't checked out the G. R. article in awhile, but when I did yesterday I was blown away by the new improvements. I'm really impressed with what you've done, especially with the limited sources available. I know it has over 100 references, but to hunt them down is more challenging than, say, an article about the Second War Workd, which literally has thousands of sources sometimes on just one battle alone! I see that you are still working on the article, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel where it can be argued the G. R. article is the best among genre-related pieces.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:29, 1 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much for your kind and reassuring words. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel...Amen.  You'll notice in my sandbox 1, I'm trying to fill in some of the missing pieces in the regions section.  I want to cover more of the South, parts of the Midwest, plains and mountain states, islands and territories, etc.--and oh yes, more bands from the Quaker State too.  I still need to find some stuff about the Virginias & maybe South Carolina, Kentucky, etc. I want to improve the Japan section a little--the sources didn't yield much then--but I'll admit, I was pretty tired when I first did that section, and I rushed a bit--I need to go back "embellish" the Japan section a bit.  I've made extra sure to put a lot of the bands you did articles on in there, so I hope that it will direct people to those wonderful pieces.  And, by the way, I appreciate all your work just as much--I cherish all those great articles, and I think you're getting near your 200th. Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:25, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It has been a long road for you, I truly am glad to have tagged along, and hope the rest of the article's work goes well. After all the articles we have written or expanded, I can honestly say I'm still having fun. Even though a lot of music articles were written by the time I got here, there remains so much more to be discovered. That is what keeps me going, hopefully for many milestones to come.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:21, 3 July 2016 (UTC)


 * It's been an honor tag along with you too. I'm looking forward to being able to finish the expansion of the G.R. thing--it's not too far away--I'm chiseling away at it bit by bit.  I look forward to being able to get back to doing other articles.  I might eventually get around to doing articles on acts from other musical genres (though the garage stuff will always be so much an essential part of who I am).  I know you've mentioned that I could do some stuff on blues, rockabilly, and Cajun music, so after the G.R., I'll have more "wiggling room" so to speak.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:37, 3 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, have you seen this website's list (http://www.g45central.com/g45/?r=0) of rare garage songs? It mentions Denise and Company, but also has 999 songs to check out. It reminded me I need to write about the Sloths soon and I'm sure there are other interesting bands to discover in the list!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 06:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the list. I love G45, but I hadn't seen that particular list. There are so many great songs there. Garagepunk66 (talk) 16:56, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

About editing different topics, I actually had three completely random topics that interst me. They include early baseball history, maritime disasters, and German "hippies" from the 1890s. I actually wrote an article about a ship disaster many months ago, but unfortunately something was wrong with wiki at the time and all my progress was lost. I did however write about a German poet named Gustav Graser and found others like him. Who knows, once I reach 200 I might look for a little change.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I love all of that intrigue about the Titanic, the Lusitania. For me, I'd like to write about some stuff about art & movies.  I'd like to do articles on a couple of paintings.  I did some stuff in some a couple of film articles, so I'd like to do more there.  I tried a little politics--I added some sections to the article about the Democratic Party (1960s-1990s).  I'll have to admit that I did the stuff in that article unsourced--I just "winged it".  I knew no one would object (because nothing in that article was sourced anyway--I guess its all common knowledge).  But, I would like to go back and actually find some sources there (if only I could get my hands on them).  I've noticed that we do love both to play the role of historians.  I think we both enjoy looking back on past events.  That is not to say that we don't appreciate the present--but we both tend to believe that understanding the past is necessary for the future.  I'm sure we'll both stay involved in music writing, too--I'm sure of that. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Could I ask a small favor? I wrote an article on Euphoria's Id but accidently titled it Euphorics Id. My computer does not give the option so I was wondering if you could change the name to the proper wording. Help is much appreciated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I also asked Ghmyrtle in case you cannot get around to it. All considering, today has been a headache for me, but I will get by.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Please ping me when you return to editing. I will explain everything I promise. I am sorry CrazyAces had to enact some revenge on you too. Again, I will try to help make sense of it all because I will not stand for this anymore.drove donTheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:16, 7 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sad to hear about that the situation with CA has reared its ugly head again. I had been on vacation--I went up to Vermont to hook up my sister--the weather there was really nice.  We then drove to her place in New York right before I left to come home.  We had a great time.  I was on the plane yesterday--we had a layover in Charlotte.  So, I'm back home today.  But, tell me, what is the situation with CA? Garagepunk66 (talk) 19:38, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

An IP account (confirmed to be CrazyAces) nominated three of my articles for deletion as another act of revenge. Unfortunately, he got to you too because of our close relation. I took him to ANI, fought for the Afds to be closed as well, but only received the 48 hour block for him. I have no doubt he will return to finish business. I did my best to defend the articles while you were away, especially yours. The Afds still stand sorry to say but I slowed down his hostilities for the time being.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I talked with another editor and they said if the IP continues his tendencies when the block is over, I should report it to ANI again. I feel sure that any more personal vendettas will not be as costly as yesterday's. I apologize for CrazyAces's actions. I can handle him doing it to me, but doing it to another is a real low blow.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:45, 8 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I thank you for your coming to my help at the Afd discussion. CA's antics are seemingly limitless, and I wouldn't put it past him to have been present in more dramas I have faced.  I hope that he can walk off of the stage and make his exit from all of these ridiculous tragicomedies. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:00, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I do not know what he will do. I just want him to leave us alone, this string of nominations is random and uncalled for. Of course it had to be when we were reflecting on the milestones we are going to reach soon, and hopes for positive futures. I will not let it effect me though, and I know it will not hinder your work. I offered to help him in the past, even so he could go back to writing (hopefully good) articles. I know me and him had bad moments, but I truly wanted to move past it. I feel confident however that the Afds he placed on me and you will not go his way.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:12, 8 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I noticed that unsigned editor put some deletionist remarks on the talk page of the Christopher and the Souls article, so I responded in favor of the article and its notability. After that, I went in and put in a list of band members at the bottom (as a way to ward off deletionists).  I put in a few extra bibliographical details for the two best citations as a way to highlight their stature. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:22, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Christopher and the Souls released a legendary song and I'm glad you have helped to make sure it stays here. I have great news: CrazyAces shot himself in the foot by revealing he had another account he could use when the block was lifted. He is now blocked a month and any edits outside the CrazyAces account (which is blocked 6 months) equates to another block. Now I just have to settle the Afds and then everything should be okay.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:41, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Getting back to music (though feel free to address the other concern), I notice a few bands on the Nuggets 1998 box set without an article. These include the Elastik Band, the E Types, the Rumors, the Lyrics, and one I cannot spell from memory! The Elastik Band, the E Types and to a lesser extent the Rumors have a decent amount of sources for articles. The Lyrics may have enough, but the internet searches mix them up with actual lyrics to songs when I search them. I was going to cover the E Types soon, but I was wondering if you would want to write one for those mentioned. It would be cool to have all those groups accounted for since they are as deserving as those from the original album.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:33, 9 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I love "Hold Me" by the Rumors, and I think they have some good sources--I could do that one. I really dig the fuzz-drenched "So What" by the Lyrics, too--they have a short AllMusic piece, but otherwise, sources are harder to come by for them.  Perhaps you could also let me do one on them, too--that is, if we could find some more sources--but that's up to you.  I think you'll really enjoy doing the E-Types article--they are the best-known of the bands--I would have thought they had a piece.  I'm guessing they were named after the Jaguar sports car.  You'd do a great job with the Elastik Band.  I've always thought their song, Spazz", is kind of proto-rap (with the little Chinese fortune cookie stuff thrown in)--it kind of sounds like the Beastie Boys, but twenty years earlier. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:16, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As long as I write on the E-Types, you can have the Rumors and the Lyrics. I feel it somewhat unfair if I also wrote on the Elastik Band because those two bands have the most sources. I don't want to leave you with groups where you would really need to dig through pages for good sources. On another note, I was happy to write about Jim Zapp, a Negro League outfielder. Just being able to expand my criteria to other subjects is exhilarating. I learned about some of the hardships great players had to go through because they were segregated to one league. Many of them would have made fine players, and could have even been in the company of legends such as Micky Mantle, Cy Young, Lou Gehrig, and others.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:40, 10 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I haven't had a chance to follow professional baseball (or basketball) as much as I'd like. We don't have a major league baseball team in New Orleans (we do have a minor league team, the Zephyrs, though).  My schedule gets so busy, that it is hard to keep up with sports that have a lot weeknight games and irregular days.  But, I love to watch a game now and then, whenever I get a chance.  I need to follow pro baseball and basketball more.  Football is such a piece of cake--with just one game a week on Sunday--and then having the Saints as our local NFL team makes it all happen.  Of course, we do have a major league baseball with the Pelicans, so I want to go see a couple of their games next season.  I'd like to get back to some regular-topic article writing, but I've gotten preoccupied with the G.R. thing lately.  The G.R. tends to move at a much slower pace than the other articles I work on.  I end up doing completely separate research for each sentence, which is kind of like chiseling away bit-by-bit on a dense piece of granite.  But, I'm coming up with a lot of terrific bands to add to the regions section.  You'll notice that a lot of the bands about to go in there are going to connect to articles you've written.  So my hope is that it will bring your articles to people's attention. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:36, 10 July 2016 (UTC)


 * You may want to watch the Pelicans in a few years because with Anthony David they could be real contenders one day. They need another piece, perhaps a scoring small forward, but overall the whole league is worth watching because of how dynamically basketball is changing to "small ball". The Utah Jazz should give them their name though!
 * I appreciate adding my articles to the G. R. article when it works, it's a real honor. I try to write about different regional scenes so everything can have the same coverage. I have noticed overtime some Midwest bands and Deep South groups do not get the same coverage as the Northeast or Northwest. Strange. I also appreciate the response at the Afds, they needed someone who actually knew what they were talking about. That is one issue I see with Afds: anyone can do it without a lick of knowledge on the subject. CA referred to garage and psychedelic rock as "probably minor and insignificant" when he tried canvassing for support on user talk pages. He wasn't even sure of his own statement! But whatever, we know the importance of the genres and that is all that matters.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think he'll have much success. I'm almost 100% certain that the article will be retained. Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:27, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I'm working on sections for the G.R. covering the South and Midwest--its just taking bit of time getting all of the bands, songs, sources, and info. together, but I'm not too far way from adding those sections, so you'll notice a bunch of the articles you wrote in there. Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh sorry I wasn't referring to the article. I realize it is not complete yet, that is nobody's fault. I meant in general Southern bands and Mid west bands are not covered as much on web pages and in books. Hope there wasn't any confusion because I wasn't trying to be rude.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:40, 11 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I was aware. I didn't find anything rude in your remarks.  You had mentioned the G.R. at the beginning of the message, so I tied in the Southern and Midwestern stuff out of the feeling that it actually stems from the fact that, because the groups in those regions get less coverage, that we have not traditionally had as many Wiki articles on them (that, of course, is changing) and that, because the sources on them are more scant (and relative lack of notoriety), I had to put off their inclusion in G.R. until a later time.  But, I feel that we have now reached the point where it is possible to get them in. We now not only have more Wiki articles on them, but I have also had more time to become familiar with the backwater regional terrain over the course of the last year--I now have a chance to dig into those areas in a way that I wasn't ready to a year ago, and I was thinking that is so for the very reasons that you said. Garagepunk66 (talk) 06:52, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I also have great news: I nominated L.A. Woman for GA status and it already received a reviewer! This is by far my lengthiest article so hopefully the hard work will pay off. I had to recently go back and fix a large portion of it because a user added a "Composition" section, but had no sources. Some of it may have been true, but I had to scrap it for a section which is more condense with only essential information. If this passes, I plan to focus efforts on The Monks page. I actually got the book Black Monk Time and got it signed by Edward Shaw which was an amazing experience. It says "Edward Shaw: We are all Monks!"TheGracefulSlick (talk) 20:21, 12 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sure the GA will pass, but one way or another, go ahead and do the Monks album anyway--just for the sake of the music. Reviews are nice, but the having a quality article (whether a reviewer recognizes it or not) is what is most important.  If I had never gotten the G.R. reviewed for G.A., I would have done the expansion  anyway, even considering the time-consuming nature of doing it.  I am working on further expansion on the regions section.  My hope is that it will become more reflective of the regional diversity than before.  It has taken time gathering and reading up on the sources--but has been fun.  I'll  be adding about 65 bands and about a hundred more citations--I think that the article may tip 700 citations soon--this crazy thing is never ending.  But, I'm trying to get a good biographical feel for each artist and their music.  I'm trying to select songs and biographical details that best-represent each of the bands.  So, I've been surveying a lot of the songs on Youtube, thinking "should I pick this one or that one?", etc.  But, I've enjoyed the chance to do a lot of music-listening.  I hope that the finished product will look good.  It's been a great adventure working on the G.R., however, I think in the future I'll be working on projects of more manageable size. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:09, 12 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Of course, I would expand the Monks' page anyways. I'll admit I took longer on preparing this GA because I was down that "Norwegian Wood" couldn't pass, despite my best efforts. A big reason I try to write GAs is because a DYK usually follows, which helps spread the word of what we are working so hard on. I enjoy the fact that the G. R. article represents all types of songs, whether they were nationally successful or not. It's great to have Top 40 hits, but it wouldn't be an authentic garage experience because as we know many garage bands never experienced such an opportunity. Despite that, some of those hit-less wonders were perhaps more important than some of the "big guys". I'll have to read the latest expansion when the time comes, I'm trying to keep up with it too!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about the "Norwegian Wood" situation--you did a terrific job there. Keep in mind that reviewers are probably ridiculously picky and hard to please when it comes to anything having to do with the Beatles.  The Beatles main article has about a hundred pesky little vultures swarming around it 24-7.  I think L.A. Woman will turn out better.  I hope you like the next additions to the G.R.  Once I get all of the sources and the blueprint/setup finished, then I can start actually writing the new parts.  I hope that I can have it done soon.  But, each time I add things, then I see that more needs to be added as a counterbalance.  For, instance if I add a few bands from the East, then I have to add a few more from the West (or for every addition North, there has to be and equal and opposite South, etc.).  But, I was thinking that, since I've put a lot of time into it, then I could, perhaps maybe, try having it reviewed for FA soon.  With the increased geographical representation in there, it might be near-ready.  I am putting a lot of book sources in. I've bought and read about thirteen books for this article.  I also want make sure that all of the books already in there are properly represented in the Bibliography at the bottom.  I have a feeling that there are at least twenty five to thirty books cited in the article.  I could supplement some of the info. already there (or add a few new bits) with citations from a couple of Unterbergers's books, etc.  I could convert most of the book notes to Harvard-style notes (end-notes method).  I guess that one of the problems with the garage topic is that it hasn't gotten a lot of coverage in books (or really any high-level places for that matter)--but I think that the reviewers might be understanding about that limitation and see that we are doing the best that can be done for the topic.  That is what I hope. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:04, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I think another problem with book coverage is for the ones available, you would really need to shovel through the Internet just to find them. For the most part, books on garage rock are actually incredibly detailed when you consider how obscure the bands once were. Just yesterday, I found this book called They Couldn't Tame Us: The Wisconsin 60's Rock Discography, which focuses solely on Wisconsin garage bands. It is an amazing book, teaching me many new things, but sadly not many other people will even here of it, let alone read it. There is multiple books that focus on regional scenes, but again, just finding them is the most challenging obstacle. The fact you have 30 books represented so far is an achievement of its own. As I said with the GA review, the only thing that will slow the progress towards FA is the time it will take to review the whole article. I recommend getting the first reviewer to also review for FA when the time comes.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:29, 14 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'd like to put more in the G.R. about Wisconsin bands--I haven't found enough sources so far on them, but I could get a copy of that book--it would be a great help. I know that there were a buch of bands that recorded for Cucca records.   As for the FA, I realize that they require panel of a panel of like four or five  reviewers.  I hope that Binksternet can be amongst them--he is eminently qualified--he is tough, but fair, and I think he makes logical and sound judgments--he really uderstands music, too, which helps.  While, I'm at it, I thought I'd put this thread in the archive, as it is getting rather long, and I'll start up a new thread. Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of (Would I Still Be) Her Big Man for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article (Would I Still Be) Her Big Man is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/(Would I Still Be) Her Big Man& until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. ansh 666 19:46, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Music, etc.
Here is a new thread to discuss music, etc. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:22, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As a part of my "branching-out" period we talked about, I started some editing on the murder of Kitty Genovese. I noticed her "Life" section is kinda lacking so I'm going to focus a lot on that right now. I know she is remembered for being murdered (that sounds rather morbid, doesn't it?), but I think it is important for readers to know that Kitty was also a human being with a life of her own. From what I read, she was a very self-assured and kind person, and personally I find her incredibly beautiful (obviously I won't write opinions though). Anyways, it has been easy to write about her since a few dozen books are focused specifically on her, so hopefully some authors also thought it was important to talk about Kitty, not just the tragic event that ended her life.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:22, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I haven't really followed the case, but I'm sure that she was an wonderful person. And, the passage of over fifty years does not erase the tragedy. I might do some stuff  regarding the Death of Mary Sherman who died in a mysterious fire (and possible murder) on St. Charles Ave. in New Orleans that very same year--some have suspected foul play.  I have read a book that links her death, either directly or indirectly, to some of the reputed figures in the Kennedy assassination (David Ferrie, Oswald, etc.).  I am not a usually a conspiracy theorist, and neither was my father, but about ten years ago, he got me to read a fascinating book about the whole thing called Dr. Mary's Monkey. Once I get finished with my current expansion to the G.R., I'dnow now  to do a Wiki article about that book.  My father once said that roundabout 1964-1965, at the barbershop at the Roosevelt Hotel he was going to then, one of the barbers told him about all of this inside stuff involving Ferrie, Oswald, the mafia, etc.--apparently the barber knew people who were involved with them--this was a few years before like him started pushing his case in the late 60s (Jim Garrison was the New Orleans District attorney who in the late 1960s tried to prosecute figures he alleged to be co-conspirators in the Kennedy assassination--the Oliver Stone movie, JFK is about the trial--it is the only time that anyone outside of Oswald was ever tried).  But, everything the barber told him later got discussed in the Garrison case.  Weird.  There was a whole situation going on at the US Marine Hospital in Uptown New Orleans.  There was a lot of research going on there.  Dr. Alton Ochsner (founder of Ochsner Hospital) was in charge of lot of the research.  It was not necessary all bad--in fact they accomplished some heroic things for which I am deeply grateful.  Ochsner was trying to trying to find a better polio vaccination--which he and his researchers (Sherman was one of them) succeeded in doing.  But, the American public had not been told that all of the polio vaccines that people had received in the 50s were imperfect--and may have been cancer-causing, so the team of researchers came up with a much better formula--however the whole operation was top secret--they didn't want this to come out.  Apparently they were using primates, and even had a linear particle accelerator(!)--in the building (the red brick building pictured second to last in the sequence of photos in this attachment []).  This was right next to a residential city neighborhood!  One problem is that they may have also been under pressure from the government to develop truth serums and poisons, etc. to use in the Cold War. Dr. Ochsner was an ardent anti-Communist and was vehemently anti-Castro.  And several of the people, such as Ferrie were connected to Mafia kingpin, Carlos Marcello--Jack Ruby was connected to Marcello.  Marcello owned many of the places on US highway 90, stretching from Florida through Texas--there was gambling--all kind of stuff on that highway.  I might eventually work on some a of the pieces about  mobsters.  Personally, I do not think that Dr. Ochsner, himself, had anything to do with the Kennedy assassination--I believe that his intensions were out of altruism (even his anti-communism--people were afraid of it them like we are today of terrorists).  But, some of the people working under him may have been without his knowledge.  And, Dr. Sherman most definitely was not involved, but she may have known certain things--we'll never know.  She died right before the Warren commission arrived in town to investigate. Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Kitty became the poster-child for the bystander effect, though it's obvious I'm sure she would have rather lived out her whole life. I should have mentioned that early reports stated 38 witnesses (that number is debated) ignored her cries for help. I found what you said interesting but I got a little lost because this is all mostly new to me. I have read of several theories on Kennedy's death, and read much about the background surrounding the incident. I wonder why they cleaned the car he was in (the crime scene!) and why the FBI wanted his body as soon as possible. There have been multiple ideas over the years: the second gunman, Castro orchestrated it, the mob as you got in to, and the Soviets. Sorry if I am getting on too many tangents, but the mob also interest me, especially the prohibition era mobsters. Those guys were like heroes to people, which is both dumbfounding and understandable. At one point of time, the mob did run Chicago, the Vegas Strip, and blackmailed officials so the power would be alluring to some people.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The bystander effect is unfortunate and it is awful when people don't try to intervene to stop wrong. As for mobsters, Carlos Marcello in New Orleans was also extremely powerful (he was in a later era than prohibition) and has been rumored to be connected to the assassination.  While I can't pretend to know for sure what went on, and I know that there are a lot of theories, I have a certain hunch about it, but maybe I'm wrong.  There are those who say it was Castro, but I don't lean that way at all (though Im sure there were people who would have wanted it to appear that way).  I have my own hunches about the whole thing, but I can't say for sure.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 18:06, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * It's just a huge mess of theories that I'm almost positive will be unraveled many years from now when anyone from that era is dead and gone. All I know is there is no way someone like Oswalt could have committed such a crime alone. By the way, L.A. Woman passed GA, which has given me a new-found faith in the review system. Ritchie333 worked with me and gave me direct steps to fix the minor issues he saw and I'm ready to edit for another GA in a month or two. For the next one (most likely the Monks) I will specifically call on either him, Bishonen, or you because I know I can trust you three to collaborate in the process. I'm also thinking of becoming something like a "Doors spokesman" by improving all their studio albums at some point. Just the thought of that is so exciting!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:41, 19 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Way to go with the LA Woman article! I never had any doubt in my mind that it would pass.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 22:56, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I just found an interesting cover: a female-garage band called Zuma recorded a version of "Night of the Sadist". Ironically, I think this version is the first released with the word "Sadist", not "Phantom". Sadly, I cannot find anything about the group, but I would assume they were from Texas. I also heard another female band called the Models who recorded the first version of "Bend Me, Shape Me", and it sounds totally psychedelic. And it was recorded in 1966! Again, however, I cannot find much on the group. For some reason female bands are not covered as well as their male counterparts.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Garage gets ignored in general, but the female 60s garage bands get completely neglected. It's sad that most people don't realize how many fantastic all-female groups there were in the 60s--they think the whole girl band thing started with the Runaways and the Slits in the mid-to-late 70s (or they might name drop the Shaggs to prove they know something about the 60s).  But, of course, there are those such as us who know that the 60s was the golden age of the all-female group and that there were hundreds of female bands (all much better than the Shaggs).  Am I preachin' to the choir or what?  Garagepunk66 (talk) 07:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I found a great compilation series called Girls in the Garage. I bought it mainly to hear Zuma's version of "Night of the Sadist" anytime I want, but also to discover some other groups. I think there is an album out there (cannot recall the name though) devoted to female Texas bands. It is more sad to me that I have not heard many female garage studio albums outside of the Shags and the Shangri-Las. The Shangri-Las were a solid band, but I feel if anyone only heard the Shags' album it would create an incorrect bias on all 60s female bands.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I remember you saying that the Shags would appeal to the "it's so bad its good" crowd, but, like you, I feel that there were much better female garage bands, who don't get nearly as much attention. You've heard me say how much I love the Mod IV, who did "Open Up Your Mind".  I'd love to do an article on them, but I can't find enough sources.  One of these days, I hope some good sources will emerge. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:53, 23 July 2016 (UTC)


 * P.S.: I just queued-up the Shaggs' Philosophy of the World on Youtube (in the vain hope I might recognize some "quality" in the album I previously missed) and one threadster posted the perfect comment. He said: "Surround all ISIS strongholds with powerful loudspeakers, and blast this 24/7."  Now the Shaggs have a useful purpose!  I think I might mention them, after all, in the female section G.R. (I've been plannin' to add more bands anyway)--but I'll have to add in some of the other bands to have a "camouflaging effect".  I guess it is the homespun philosophy expressed in the Shaggs' lyrics that some people find interesting--I guess the Shaggs are trying to find a philosophical way to put all of the world's absurdities and contradictions into a balancing "perspective" (that somehow makes it all "OK").  I guess that their inept musicianship adds to the "effect".  That may make some people feel good, but it doesn't do much for me. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:41, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Well at least Frank Zappa liked it! I actually only liked the lyrics, as you pointed out, but the music is just too much for me to finish the whole album. I do not know what you would call it, avant-garde, freakout, or just plain "other"? Although I would not consider it quality music, I agree with you that the Shaggs need to be in the G. R. article. A little side note, thanks for being around as long as you have. I just had some nasty messages from CA that I tried to brush off, but I won't lie they hit a little hard this time. He talked about my dead brother in a disgusting way that I wouldn't dare to repeat. I told him to be a man and talk to me, which made it stop for now. I just thank you for your kindness, it really lifts my spirits and sets my mind straight when other people have little regard for their fellow man.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:13, 25 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I am sad to hear about your brother--he must have been a wonderful person. It hits hard when death comes to those we love.  CA really hit a low point with that insult--there is no justification for what he said.  Hold on to the happy memories of your brother and they will help sustain you.  I still have my brother in this world--I am fortunate for that.  But, my mother and father are now gone.  My mom died when I was 14, now so long ago, though time has passed so fast, that it seems like yesterday.  And, of course my dad died a little over three years ago.  But, I thank you, too, for sticking around--it has helped in my own healing process in so many ways. 04:38, 25 July 2016 (UTC)Garagepunk66 (talk)

I just do not understand how someone could say such things to another human being, especially over something as small as this. I know I had my disagreements with him and probably could have handle things better, but, come on, there needs to be a point where he needs to be an adult. By the way, when I finish the Monks re-write I really want to edit the film article Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, my favorite Apes movie in the franchise. Don't get me wrong, the original is a sci-fi classic, and probably has one of the most iconic endings in the genre's history, but Conquest had Robby McDowall at his best. I think the series overall, except the fifth movie which was a little dissappointing, is still impactful because of its dark but honest message. It was not just about apes: It was about racism, oppression, war, vengeance, and cruelty, all very real concerns in today's society. Not to mention Apes also vitalized the sci-fi genre, making big budget franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek possible. Sorry if this isn't your thing, I just have been watching the series recently and was so moved by the films' messages.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:00, 26 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I enjoy Planet of the Apes--the original series with Roddy McDowell, and I saw them when I was a kid--in theaters or when they'd show it on the CBS Saturday Night Movie (I know I'm getting really "retro" there--that was long time ago in the days before cable).  I watched the first movie from '68 again w/ McDowell and Heston a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it.  I need to go back and re-watch all of the sequels (w/ Roddy McDowell).  I definitely to want to do more movie stuff.   I love the great classic Hollywood.  I am a huge Hitchcock fanatic.  I love Billy Wilder's films too.  I love a good Western.  I also dig some of the foreign stuff from the golden age of art-house (50's, 60s and 70s).  I love Fellini's stuff: Las Strada, Nights of Caberia, La Dolce Vida, Juliet of the Spirits etc.  I love the classic Japanese cinema: Kurosawa, Ozu, and Mizoguchi.  Mizuguchi may be my favorite of the Japanese directors.  His movies such as, Sansho the Bailiff and Ugetsu are so beautiful, poetic (and tragic).  I love Satyajit Ray form India--he did a great move called The Music Room.  I'm a big fan of Luis Buñuel, who is so cool.  I did some edit work in his bio. article, but I need to go back there and work on a few things there.  I'm just about to start an article on the documentary film Gleason.  I got so busy with the G.R., that it pulled me away form other things.  Wonderful as it is working on it, I want to get back to some "regular editing".  So, I'll get back to band articles and also start doing movies. I have some things I still want to do at the G.R., too, though.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:25, 26 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll need to see some Japanese films. To be completely honest with you, I do not think I have ever watched a foreign movie, isn't that terrible? I have watched just about anything American, even old silent films starring Charlie Chaplin. Even right now as I write to you, I am watching Rebel Without a Cause with James Dean. Those retro films have always been my favorite because they are genuine and almost without any computer graphics. I guess that is why I love the Apes series. The series was created with such a limited budget which got smaller with each sequel but, the movies were successful because of a unique story and quality actors. Much of that has been lost to CGIs and animations that are meant to wow audiences but take away from any actual meaning for them to walk away with. I am in no rush to start editing the Conquest film because I doubt many other users are interested in the fourth movie of the series.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:02, 26 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I like the way older films didn't rely on all of the digital graphics and "bish boom bam" of so much out there today. They (like the music of those past eras) were more "organic"--they focused on the characters and the story.  I just love the great films of classic Hollywood--there was a certain grace.  Movies Like "Casablanca", "Sunset Boulevard"--the list goes on and on.  I don't think that can ever be duplicated.  I just entered a movie article about he new documentary Gleason--the former New Orleans Saint struggling with Lou Gerig's disease.  I entered the article as a stub--'cause if I did't get in in there, probably some other editor we don't know would have beat me to the punch--that movie will be a "hot to trot" commodity, so I had to get in there fast.  I wanted to do it last week, but I was busy with the G.R. (which is, of course, is a good thing to get preoccupied with).  So, I put an "under construction" template at the top and I'm working on its improvements in my sandbox.  I'll put some of them in tonight and, maybe, finish the article tomorrow. Garagepunk66 (talk) 05:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I've been working on the article for the documentary, Gleason about former Saints defensive safety Steve Gleason and his experience living with ALS--Lou Gehrig's disease. I want to put some more details into the article, including a Reception section, but I need to wait until the move is released to see more reviews. I haven't seen the movie yet, myself, but seeing it will help me a lot in enhancing the bio. I believe that the movie opens in theaters this Friday (7/29) and I would be willing to bet that it is something you would like to see. Steve Gleason is a huge hero in New Orleans. His blocked punt against the Atlanta Falcons on Spt. 22, 2006 was probably the single greatest moment in Saints history (next to the Super Bowl, of course--but I think that his blocked kick that night was the key turnaround event that led to the Super Bowl a few years later). In the 2005 and early 2006 seasons, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the Saints did not have a stadium and had to play in, and all of our games were on the road, even designated "home games", such as in San Antonio, where the mayor there made a push to try to lure the Saints away from their rightful home in New Orleans to San Antonio. The 2005 season was a trying time--the city was in a heavily damaged from wind and massive flooding. Most of the population was still evacuated in places 800-2000 miles away. There was no guareantee that we would have been able to successfully rebuild. Demographers were saying that large parts of New Orleans would have to be raised and that, at best, the city would only regain half of our previous population--and that Baton Rouge would permanently take our place as the state's largest metropolitan area (and it was for a time right after the storm when almost all of our residents were evacuated). Well, the prophets of doom and silly prognosticators turned out to be wrong! And, after a year in exile, the Saints returned to our beloved and renovated Superdome for the special occasion on Set. 22 broadcast on Monday Night Football for the whole world to see, where Steve Gleason blocked that kick, turning the game around--and led to triumphant victory against the Dirty Birds. Now Gleason has managed to survive and hang on for more than five years fighting Lou Gerig's disease, which is an even greater accomplishment. My hat goes off to him. And, he is also an ardent rock & roll fan to boot. A true rebel hero. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Nice work on starting this article, GP66! here's an article about Pearl Jam attending the Seattle premier of the film. Steve's a big fan of theirs and I've seen him at PJ shows when I was in the US in 2013. Feel free to add it into the article if you wish. Thanks again.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 07:26, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I forgot to mention that. I've been really busy the last few fays, so I was working on the fly. I will add that that and a reception section soon. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:27, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

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Thank you for the barnstar
Thank you for the barnstar and the kind words. The research and original writing of the article required more than a year, but the prose you are reading now is actually more a group effort. It is the result of many rewrites done mostly during the grueling FAC phase by multiple reviewers and I would be ungrateful not to mention this fact. As a teacher, I'm used to collaborative works and endless discussions but that phase was tough! I'm glad that the outcome is worthy of attention and praise. I need to recharge my batteries to face Brexit Rock... Lewismaster (talk) 10:03, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, I just wanted to say "Thanks", because I know that it took a lot of work, came out looking great. And, I know that on day, that "Brexit rock" article is going to be fantastic too! Garagepunk66 (talk) 19:15, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Discussion, music, etc.
Here is a thread to discuss music, articles, etc. Garagepunk66 (talk) 23:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)


 * This might sound crazy, but lately I've been thinking about trying to figure out what it takes to be an admin. I really want to help other Wikipedians and, in all honesty, as a regular editor all I can offer is moral support and a point of view on an issue. I know I am not an expert when it comes to policy (you won't ever see me act as a wikilawyer) but I can tell the difference between right and wrong. Do you have any thoughts on this? I'm nowhere near making a decision so I was wondering what you think.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:03, 30 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I've thought about it, too, but I'll probably stick to what I'm doing, at least for the time being. I am primarily a writer and content generator, and I'm not sure I'd want to diminish that at this time.  An administrator has to spend hours dealing with other people's conflicts and doesn't have as much time for writing.  Their role is primarily to deal with contentious issues, and part of the responsibility they take on when asking to be given that role is to put sorting out other people's conflicts above all else.  They aren't exactly there to be helpers in a personal kind of way, but rather deal with conflicts and impose blocks when necessary.  They can certainly help those who are being harassed by trolls, but even then, their effectiveness, too, is limited.  One thing I've witnessed is that trolls and rogue editors can pretty easily navigate around administrative actions.  I've heard that admins. have to be on the guard for hackers trying to enter their accounts.  Administrators don't have a lot of time get involved in mentorship.  Generally the types of editors who are what I would call "helpers" are non-administrator editors who have achieved seniority and want use their know-how to mentor newer editors.  They generally wish to avoid getting involved in contentious situations, but rather help newer editors learn the craft.  You see these helpers at Tea House, and places like that.  I've thought about getting more involved there.  Maybe administrator at some point, but probably not now.  One should have have no illusions about what becoming an administrator entails, so if one were to get into it--I'd advise to be very realistic. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:03, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That is actually what interests me though. I notice on AN/I that the issues some people post go without even a small response for days on end and more, unnecessary damage is done in the process. I like going through the diffs and finding what is causing the problem, and propose ideas on how to solve it. Admins have been on the decline in the last few years so they are needed. I know I can still manage time to uphold an admin's responsibilties and write articles. When I picture what an admin should be and what I want to be, I think of Bishonen. She allows you to take issues to her and keeps you in the loop. I have been trying to participate at AN/Is again to prepare myself for the possibility of an administration. Perhaps my age will set me back though, I think they take that into strong consideration. Regardless, I would not nominate myself for that until another year has passed. I just wanted to have your opinion because yours is more valuable to me than anyone else's.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:06, 30 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, if that is an area where you feel you could make a positive difference, then it should be something to explore. I didn't realize that people's needs were so often left unattended at ANI.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, I was wondering if you wanted to help out with something I'm volunteering for in Philadelphia. Let me explain, there is a museum that is going to be opened in early 2017 that will be devoted to psychedelic and garage rock bands of the 1960s. My role is asking for donations to the museum: records, concert posters, instruments, anything you can think of really. I was wondering if you are willing to donate anything you feel viewers would want to see displayed. It is purely voluntary so do not feel obligated, I just wanted to at least make you aware because of your obvious interest in the music. If you are interested, I will explain more about where the item will go and what eventually will happen to it when it goes on display.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * P.S. when you get the time, could you write some words for User:Kevin Gorman, who passed away recently. The whole wiki community has been saying some really touching things, even if they didn't know him as well as others. Makes me proud to be involved in this, it truly shows the human side of this project.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:40, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Though I never got to know Kevin Gorman personally, I can imagine that he must have been a wonderful person and editor. I will most definitely drop a line of condolence.  As, for memorabilia, I have a lot of CD's (I know that Tim Warren's Zombies would burn me at stake for being a heretic in admitting that I don't have the tunes on vinyl).  I don't have any actual collectibles.  I could ask my friend from the Guanga Dyns, but I think he lost most of his personal items during Hurricane Katrina--I could still ask, thoough.  You could maybe ask your grandfather from the Shillings.  On the topic of Allentown bands, I was thinking about starting an article on the King's Ransom, who did "Shame".  I could maybe start up the article, but you could come in and expand on it and make enhancements, because I know that Allentown is a stone-throw from your backyard.  I could maybe start up the article in a slightly unfinished state, then we could "tag team" to complete it and you could also add the infobox?  Whad'ya say? Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:09, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

My grandfather has given me his copy of the "Just for You, Baby" single, probably the rarest of the group's three singles. It would be a tremendous help if you could ask your friend or get me in contact with him. It is worth a try because we are a little short on artifacts belonging to southern bands (except Texan bands). I would be happy to add to the King's Ransom page if needed, but you always are thorough with your articles. You do not need to hold back on the content, that would not be fair to your reputation of consistently creating articles that are in superb shape from the get-go. I am actually suprised that there are some solid sources on the group, I must have missed that when I made the Allentown Anglophile page months ago.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:42, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I noticed that they have a piece in AllMusic and an interview in Beyond the Beat Generation. And, there are a couple more.  Perhaps you could ask your grandfather if he knew any of the Kings Ransom members--I bet he did, and I bet they may have played on the same bill and been in some Battles of the Bands.  Hey, I guess you have noticed that I just put some stuff about battles of the bands in the G.R. near the top and mentioned a documentary about the 1967 Tea Council event (the Tea Council held the most prestigious national competition every year).  The documentary focuses on the third place finalists, the Good Guys, who never cut a record, but do a really intense song, "Stupid Tuesday", near the end--one of the great unknown lost classics--and I seized on that as an opportunity to pay my debt of homage to a great lost group at the sacred Tomb of the Unknown Band!   Here's a local competition at the Croton-on-Hudson Battle of the Bands in 1967.    Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:02, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * My grandfather recalled one notable performance with the King's Ransom sharing the bill. The Shillings were up after the group and halfway through the set a rowdy audience member was causing trouble (probably drunk). The fan started to hop the bar separating the crowd from the stage but one of the members of the King's Ransom, possibly the bass guitarist he cannot remember, stopped him and got into a brawl until security broke it up! My grandpa actually kept in contact with the band regularly, he even congratulated them for the release of "Shame". Unfortunately, he lost contact with them after he joined the marines so he does not know where they are now. On another note, I got a cool message notifying me my article on the Quiet Jungle is now a DYK. I am especially fond of this one because it is my own original creation and it gives people an opportunity to learn about an obscure band, maybe even investigate garage rock further.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:44, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yea, it is nice that someone nominated Quiet Jungle. As, for your grandfather, I'm guessing that he got drafted to 'Nam, would I be correct? Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:27, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Well kinda, he did serve in Vietnam but he also served in Cambodia. Since it was unofficial at the time, if he died in combat, a report would have been sent that he was killed in South Vietnam. There was terrible things going on in Cambodia at the time with Pol Pot and the killing fields, so in the late-1960s and early-1970s he helped evacuate citizens to Vietnam, Laos (though those two countries were being bombed to hell), Thaliand, etc. He stayed in the service for 22 years and it would have probably been longer if they did not plan to send him to Korea in the 1980s.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:04, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Pol Pot came to power a few years later. By 1970 the US was conducting bombings in certain rural areas of Cambodia--that they didn't want people to know about it, particularly with the unpopularity of the Vietnam War here at home.  There had been interferences from the outside--from both China and the Viet Kong.  The monarch had been reluctant to go along with the US in the bombings out of fear that they would fuel popular discontent.  In 1970, there was a borderline coup, where the right wing deposed the monarch and conducted a pseudo-military regime--I'm guessing your grandfather was in there right around that time--but he may have stayed there for several years (into Pol Pot).  Eventually (circa 1975) the right wing government fell and Pol Pot came to Power.  God, was Pol Pot awful.  He kicked all of the people out of the cities and made everyone live like peasants.  He wanted everyone to be just alike as peasants and to have no individuality.  He killed thousands of artists and musicians, including Yol Aularong, who I want to put a mention of in the G.R.  Finally in 1979 the Viet Kong government of Vietnam invaded Cambodia and took over.  Have you ever heard of a regime so evil and bad that the Viet Kong would come in to be the "liberators"--that is how awful Pol Pot was.  But, I guess we're gonna need "crooked Hillary" to liberate us from Donald Trump. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:48, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

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Natalie Claro Article
Thank you for your previous mentions for improvement for the article Natalie Claro. It has been reviewed and now considered for deletion by SwisterTwister. The references and citations are accurate, and I have not experienced an article be considered for deletion. May you review the article and assist with suggestions. Thank you Metaphorical analysis (talk) 20:58, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Metaphorical analysis, I hope that the article can be maintained. I went in and added a few sources to the article.  I hope that there is a way that the article can be kept, but if it ends up getting deleted, you can re-write it at a later time (perhaps when more sources become available).  I have a feeling that she will go on to greater success and that we will all be hearing more about her in the coming year.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Garagepunk66, Thank you, I am new to this, and I will try to bring more resources so it remains. Is it possible for you to mention to keep in the afc? Metaphorical analysis (talk) 02:12, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Metaphorical analysis, I would love nothing more than to argue in favor of Keep in the AFC discussion, but a person is prohibited from contributing there if they have been contacted on their talk page by another editor. What would happen is that some of the other editors there would accuse you of canvassing and that could cause more problems than it would solve.  I recommend to go to a public forum such as the talk page of the Village pump and announce the discussion at Afd.  Do not try to argue too hard there for your side, just announce the Afd discussion.  You are always within your rights to argue your opinion at the Afd discussion.  Garagepunk66 (talk) 01:29, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks you Metaphorical analysis (talk) 15:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

that chart technical thing
at Wrecking Crew (music) was a problem for me for a while until I figured this out. At the beginning of each year you'll find some code like this: rowspan="8"|1966  The "8" is what decides how many entries there will be in this section, or year. So by changing the "8" to a "7" (or whatever) and removing all the ||||||s it works out. I just figured this out, was quite proud of myself, but I do a fair amount of charts and have never run into this before, but there it is, and that's the deal. There will be a quiz on this. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 04:49, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Garagepunk66 (talk) 04:59, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to say that deciding just what songs the Crew played on is problematic, at least for me. I mean, it was a fluid thing, so how many members does it take to chalk it up?  I am not that happy with Strangers in the Night (song), for example because it was a large session with maybe 3 Crew members. Keeps me awake at night. Carptrash (talk) 05:08, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "Strangers" had additional orchestral musicians, but several core Crew members were on hand on band instruments. Hal Blaine was there.  Glen Campbell was there too--Sinatra had a few "interesting" remarks about him in the control booth after the session.  Of course, Simon & Garfunkel's electric version of "I am a Rock" was done at Columbia's 30th St. studio ("The Church") in NY with the session players who had just worked with Dylan on Highway 61 Revisited (that album was recorded in "the church"), so I took "I am a Rock" off the list.  Simon & Garfunkel went to L.A. the record with the Wrecking Crew on some of their later work.  Although Hartman mentions "I am a Rock" on pg. 262, I think he made a mistake--to my best knowledge, the songs on Sounds of Silenc were done in NY--at the time of recording S&G were not yet big, so Columbia would not have flown them out to L.A.  I could be wrong, but to be on the safe side, I took the song off of the list. Garagepunk66 (talk) 05:40, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Check out wikipedia on the subject, Sounds of Silence. I also think that all your hard work on referencing the songs could have also been a Don't be a dick to those demanding them.  Strangers is fine with me, I was just chatting. Carptrash (talk) 05:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * And, I'm enjoying the good chat! Thank you for your kind understanding about the way that some editors make such harsh demands on good people like us who are just trying to do a good job. The particular editor who put that tag there is a real stern taskmaster who finds fault with everything people do.  I don't think he means it in a bad way, but a lot of times he'll put really harsh comments next to his edits--he often makes rash criticisms without investigating the reasons or context of why you might have put something there--you may have made the right decision, but he'll accuse you of being wrong.  Oh well...  I guess we soldier on and do our best.  But, yeah you're definitely right, I was making a subtle statement to that editor and asking him to be more kind to people.  I'll give him his wish--he'll get to see the citations he wanted other people to put in, but he might also feel a twinge of remorse when he sees my little message on the edit history!  Garagepunk66 (talk) 06:26, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * One of the nice things about the wikipedia community is that like minded people can discover common interests, like improving this, and other, articles. And yes, it does sometimes seem that other editors are there because they need . . ....... something else.  I would not expect to turn on any lights in his (I'm thinking "guy" all the way) attic.  I am struggling a bit as to just how large the chart should be but I am not inclined to have some wikilawyer decide for me.  I am comfortable with your opinion. Carptrash (talk) 06:34, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The list is really extensive. Songs to add? Not many--I'd be hard pressed to find many more.  Maybe some of the songs from the Monkees' first two albums, their theme song, "Last Train to Clarksville", etc.  I love the way the Wrecking Crew could go from playing with Sinatra and then do a garage band thing for the Monkees.  I can think of no other session musicians who could pull that off.  I also love the session cats in Nashville and Memphis during the 60s, and also, of course, in Muscle Shoals.  The session musicins then played with impeccable feel and taste.  And, I love the way music was recorded then--everything was so natural-sounding and so...true.  Unlike today where everything sounds pre-fabricated and "pumped up" on fake steroids (like the genetically engineered chicken you find at the grocery). Garagepunk66 (talk) 06:58, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * - I've started a discussion on the article talk page - probably best to discuss it there. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Terrific! Garagepunk66 (talk) 07:37, 13 August 2016 (UTC)