User talk:Go4carter



Hello, Go4carter, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like this place and decide to stay.
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 * If you have a question that is not one of the frequently asked questions below, check out Questions, stop by and/or ask a question at the Teahouse, [ ask me on my talk page], or click the button below. Happy editing and again, welcome! Vanjagenije (talk) 22:07, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

{{Hidden|style=width: 50%;|contentstyle=text-align: left;|1=How do I create citations?|2=#Do a search on Google or your preferred search engine for the subject of the Wikipedia article that you want to create a citation for. 
 * 1) Find a website that supports the claim you are trying to find a citation for.
 * 2) In a new tab/window, go to the citation generator, click on the 'An arbitrary website' bubble, and fill out as many fields as you can about the website you just found.
 * 3) Click the 'Get reference wiki text' button.
 * 4) Highlight, and then copy (Ctrl+C or Apple+C), the resulting text (it will be something like, copy the whole thing).
 * 5) In the Wikipedia article, after the claim you found a citation for, paste (Ctrl+V or Apple+V) the text you copied.
 * 6) If the article does not have a References or Notes section (or the like), add this to the bottom of the page, but above the External Links section and the categories:

MAGIC!
Firstly and most importantly, the version of the article that you posted to my talk page fails to cite sufficient reliable sources to count as adequately referenced. You cannot under any circumstances "reference" a Wikipedia article to another Wikipedia article, or to a YouTube video; only IFPI-certified charts — which iTunesCharts.net is not — count on Wikipedia as conferring notability based on chart performance (see also WP:CHARTS, which specifically deprecates single-retailer charts like iTunes); and New Media Rockstars is a promotional blog (which stuff cannot be referenced to.) The other source, The Music Network, would be fine if the article had enough other valid sources in it to get past proper sourcing rules, but given that none of the article's other sources are legitimate, it is not good enough to be an article's only valid source.

Secondly, you need to pay attention to WP:NMUSIC, which specifies the criteria that a band has to meet to be considered notable. At least according to the article as you've written it, the band meets none of those criteria yet. It's certainly possible that they will in the future, and they can have an article when that happens — but Wikipedia is not a promotional database and no band is ever entitled to a Wikipedia article just because they exist, if the article fails to demonstrate that they meet any of the criteria spelled out at WP:NMUSIC.

Either way, the onus is not on me or any other Wikipedian to let a bad article slide; it's on you to write a properly referenced article which makes a valid claim of notability from the start. I'm not going to speedy delete the article again, but it still is not a keepable article in its current state and thus I have no choice but to list it for the more extensive deletion process (which takes a full week and entails input from a wide variety of people).

And finally, just for the record, never post the entire text of a proposed Wikipedia article to another user's talk page. Bearcat (talk) 18:24, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Generally what you need to do is to cite the article to coverage in a variety of reliable media sources. It would take a long time for me to actually explain the difference between a reliable source and an unreliable one in depth here, but you can read WP:RS for clarification. Typically for an emerging band you'll need to rely primarily on newspaper and magazine coverage — the entertainment sections of daily newspapers, alt-weeklies, music magazines, etc. — and maybe some radio interviews if they're actively touring. And an iTunes chart isn't enough on its own, but rather the "national chart" criterion means a full IFPI-certified chart such as Nielsen Soundscan charts in Canada or the United States, or the ARIA Chart in Australia. So a source which clarifies that the single made it onto one of those charts would be more helpful than a source which just talks about success in one single online music store.
 * That said, it's also worth considering whether it's really that urgent to get a new article into Wikipedia right away. It turns out that Nasri already has his own separate article, for example — it does need some improvement, but his basic notability is properly demonstrated already. So one option here would be to mention MAGIC! briefly in that article, and then temporarily redirect the band to it so that somebody who's looking for information about the band will at least get something useful. And then next year, when the band's debut album is actually released, in all likelihood the volume of reliable source coverage that's actually available about the band will increase significantly and thus it'll be easier to write a more substantial article.
 * It's fairly common, in fact, for a band to not be notable enough for a Wikipedia article at one particular point in time, but then become notable enough over time as they start to accomplish more and to gain increased media coverage. Even some of the biggest stars in music were once aspiring musicians who weren't technically notable enough for Wikipedia articles at that particular time — but they became more notable as they started selling more records and garnering more press coverage. So just because there's not enough that can be written about MAGIC! today to constitute a keepable article doesn't mean that they're never going to qualify — once there's actually a full album out, in fact, it probably will become possible to write a better-sourced, more keepable article. Bearcat (talk) 01:18, 2 December 2013 (UTC)