User talk:Godheval/Archive 1

Image Tagging for Image:Profound darkness.gif
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Thank you
Thanks for your support in setting up the Occult Portal. Though I am going to need help setting one up. Care to join the good fight? Eyeball kid 04:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Shining Series
Just to let you know, there is no required approval process for portals. The Portal/Proposals page was posing as (or at least was being mistaken as) policy even though it was not. That page has been nominated for deletion, and the deletion discussion can be found at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Portal/Proposals. If your guess is that there will be sufficient readers who will find your portal useful, then you should feel free to create it. --Transhumanist

Occult
Since the portal proposal page is inactive, I intend to continue the Portal:Occult, or Cryptosociology, or Paranorma discussion on my talk page.--Whytecypress 16:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Early removal of AfD header
Godheval, you removed the AfD header from White guilt before an admin had closed the deletion debate. In the future, don't remove AfD notices from articles before the debate is closed out.  A  Train ''talk 23:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Wuzzles.jpg
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Replaceable fair use Image:Jamilmullen.jpg
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Seth PS4.gif)
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Barack Obama
Hi Godheval. I see that we disagree about how Senator Obama's racial background should be presented in the article. Please open up a discussion on the talk page to explain your point of view. I have done this before. Steve Dufour (talk) 16:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not going to edit the article anymore on this point. I see that the consensus (at least by their silence) supports you. Why not go ahead and remove every reference to "race" and "color" from the article?  I think that would be consistant with the views you expressed on the talk page, which I agree with mostly and with your courage to express them. Wishing you well. Steve Dufour (talk) 18:33, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Xanatos (Star Wars)
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Xanatos (Star Wars), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of Xanatos (Star Wars). Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Xanatos (Star Wars)
I have nominated Xanatos (Star Wars), an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Xanatos (Star Wars). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Rika PS4.gif
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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Elfqueen.jpg
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Jordanian -> Palestinian
You just made this change to the article. I'm not going to revert at this stage, but can you please supply a source for your assertion? I only ask because the existing sources eg. say he is a Jordanian? Fritzpoll (talk) 14:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Olmec
I reverted you change at Olmec as it sounds like wp:or. If there's a source which supports this feel free to reinsert this, but the paragraph seems to be talking about modern (in the 1940s) Indians. I assume the paragraph was referring large Indian populations in the south. In the north, there are more instances of African genes mixed into the population. NJGW (talk) 15:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand my main point: if you don't have a reliable source that you are getting your information from and citing in the article, then you are inserting OR. There are sources which claim that Africans migrated to the Americas long ago, but unless you find sources which discuss this along with the Olmec heads, you are synthesizing the information (which is also not allowed).  We have to be careful in what we place in the articles, otherwise anybody could start putting all sorts of opinions in the text.  NJGW (talk) 18:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please remove your personal attacks on the Talk:Olmec page. NJGW (talk) 19:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "I can do this all day". Actually, no you can't.  You're edit warring, and violating WP:3RR, and will be blocked if you revert the article again. --barneca (talk) 20:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

While I don't want to focus on this and make it a bigger deal than it really is, I'd also like to ask you to make a special effort to not make snide comments to people who disagree with you ("slow on the uptake", etc). It poisons the atmosphere, and can needlessly escalate an argument. Thanks. --barneca (talk) 20:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Phantasy Star (series)
Hi, I see you added multiple stub tags to this article: please don't do this, as it wastes the time of people at WP:WSS. That tag is for a whole article which is a stub, not just a section needing expanding. If you think a section needs further work you could add a hidden comment for editors, or the expand tag. Thanks, PamD (talk) 07:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Bell hooks
Cyrus is right about the cut-and-paste-move you attempted being unacceptable: it would leave behind the edit history, hidden under your Rdr. When the time is ripe (and i've just argued, and intend to insist, that is still not yet ripe), an admin, probably me, will delete any impeding Rdr, and then rename the article. The discussion of this on the page was diffident, scattered, and confusing, so there is every reason for the usual assumption of good faith on your part. But this is an important matter that you need to read or ask questions about if you don't yet grasp it, especially since Thanks, --Jerzy•t 10:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) c&p moves not promptly caught by those who understand what to do about them can result in tangled histories and even complicated undeletion processes
 * 2) repetitions could be regarded as culpably reckless editing.
 * Please forgive my carelessness in getting confused by the way i examined the edit-history; it was not Cyrus who criticized your c&p move, but the IP (presumably an editor with an account, but not logged in) . --Jerzy•t 10:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I've copied the following from my talkpage, & repaired formatting that i thereby broke. --Jerzy•t 23:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Oh how ironic that I almost titled this talk subject "Bell Hooks". Anyway, please check the debate again, because I feel that there is no argument against it that is valid. The new updates to the MOS with regards to capitalization state:
 * Some individuals, such as k.d. lang, do not want their personal names capitalized. In such cases, Wikipedia articles may use lower case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources. If multiple styles have regular and established use in reliable sources, use the orthography preferred by the individual.

So for both reasons stated here, the move should take place. There is regular and established use - as seen on the covers of books, how she is listed in catalogs, and in news sources. If you consider the very few instances where her name is capitalized to constitute "multiple uses", then the second rule applies, as we should use what bell hooks herself prefers - and that is her name in lower case. I make further arguments on the talk page with regards to how the lower case is symbolic of bell hooks' personal philosophy, and it is therefore not only a courtesy to title the article in lower case, but reflective of the subject of the article itself. Godheval (talk) 20:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC) As to the irony, i know exactly where you're coming from![smile] I guess it's obvious that i love to hear myself talk, so let me strive for terseness this time, and hope you won't be offended in some way via the lack of nuance. I read the passage you are citing, in the original, in the last 24 hours, and the above version has the same meaning for me as what i read then. If there's been a change, and you regard it as significant, you'll have to point out to me why. At the start of the discussion that produced the text i read, a point was made (at the end of quoted phrase): that the obvious approach to adopting such a version does not keep the proper name lower case, in situations where a common noun would be upper-cased. I don't know what you think about the sent in the article that starts "Hooks", but you are arguing that (whatever effect it has at the start of sentences) the guideline means that lower-cased personal names differ from common nouns in their treatment when used in titles. For you to be right, that issue has to (in light of the wp-tk phrase about start-of-sentence being an exception) have been discussed further on in the WP-talk page for the guideline, and have resulted in a consensus that is not properly reflected in the guideline. I am prepared to be shown you are right, but nothing in the bh-talk page section on this suggests that anyone but myself recognizes that the guideline does not mean that unless it says that, so i'll be surprised if the WP-talk page should turn out to be consistent with that meaning. I am also prepared to consider making a move based on a durable-looking consensus that the title should be changed, if that consensus does not purport (as at present) to be based on the guideline, but instead on some title changes not needing to be based on a guideline. But i will not make a move based on a hasty or reckless consensus in support of an absurd construction of the guideline, and that is what appears to exist now. I'll pay attention to the bh-talk page again within the next day or two, and see whether i need to say more there. --Jerzy•t 23:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Phantasy Star box US.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Phantasy Star box US.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 15:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Phantasy Star (series)
You knew it was coming, so I don't know why you insisted on behaving like a dick. Lose the personal attacks and abuse, or I will block you. If you want to whine about me on some blog somewhere, do so, I'm sure I can manage to ignore you. J Milburn (talk) 16:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

3RR
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. SashaNein (talk) 16:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Civility
I didn't want to be the first to comment on your lack of civility, and i'm not sure i'd have been the second, but for your response to the first (or the first that actually caught my attention). Incivility is a form of disruptive editing, and each compounds the significant offenses you have already committed. I would welcome your striking thru part or all of that edit; i don't think it should be removed -- you can disavow it, but damage has been done and you can't really "take it back". So if you should remove it, i would likely comment on the removed edit and/or its removal. --Jerzy•t 23:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) defending even hypothetical "venom", and
 * 2) deprecating the significance of this or any policy (read enuf that you can contrast policy and guidelines, if you cannot already do so), as "not ... to tiptoe around anything for the sake of WP:Civility" does,
 * Right, you have obviously ignored the warnings that you have received, and continue with (ironically) an attempt to lord over and belittle other editors, petty mudslinging and a generally uncivil and patronising tone. I am blocking you for 48 hours. Please calm down a little. As I am sure you know, you can request an unblock by typing . J Milburn (talk) 14:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have posted a review of your block here. J Milburn (talk) 15:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The result of that review request is at Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive470. --Jerzy•t 05:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Stha screenshot01.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Phantasy Star EotM box US.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Phantasy Star EotM cover US.jpg)
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No
I didn't upload it sir; It was User:Melesse. It's all detailed. Not anyone is as possessive as you regarding articles, you know. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 08:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Jazz float
I use div tags. What do you want done?   Ase ' nine ' '' 16:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Page titles
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give a different title by copying its content and pasting it into ; and then copied the text of Eros (mythology) into Eros. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is considered undesirable because it splits the page history which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other articles that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. Russ (talk) 14:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Bell hooks creative commons.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Bell hooks creative commons.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Cirt (talk) 09:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC) --Cirt (talk) 09:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Please note that non-commercial images may not be used on Wikipedia, by order of Jimbo Wales. Stifle (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Re:Indeed
What the hell are you talking about? Are you just throwing around a few more random insults? I thought the block may have actually made you realise we're serious about treating each other with some respect... J Milburn (talk) 21:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

2nd block, escalating from 48 hours to 1 week
You are blocked for 7 days for violation of NPA and CIV, aggravated by explicit defiance of WP policies, in your edits of 21:41, 9 and 00:06, 10 September 2008 at User_talk:J_Milburn. --Jerzy•t 05:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

September 2008
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. the admins are not flaming douchebags. ViperSnake151 20:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Extension of block
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text below.

&mdash; Godheval T C W 14:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Revert this unblock review again and this page will be protected. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 16:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

&mdash; Godheval T C W 21:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

&mdash; Godheval T C W 21:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC) &mdash; Godheval T C W 13:56, 19 September 2008 (UTC) &mdash; Godheval T C W 18:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * comment In my limited experience: From August 1, 2008 NJGW (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not very helpful. However, that Olmec discussion was probably the beginning of my frustrations with WP. I ended up abandoning it in the end.
 * It is arguable that, in my effort to respect the possibility of relevant differences of opinion among administrators, i misled this editor: i was inhibited from imposing an indefinite block by the thot that a permanent block is something you should be really, really sure about (a state i seldom attain); then it occurred to me that there's an enormous difference (in appropriate cases) between permanent and indefinite, and no one calls it a permanent block except by carelessness. I find it hard to imagine myself approving of the return of this editor to WP, and when i said "depend on action by you", i had no action in mind that i would find convincing, nor (while my imagination of what goes on inside other admins' heads constantly gets astounded by things they say!) did i have in mind any action i expect another admin to find convincing. I don't expect this block to ever be lifted. (Even tho "[rant mode off] ... that's just my opinion, and i could be wrong.")  (We get admin status by not being too stubborn about our occasional fringe opinions, and by having reasonably good records of opinions that other admins turn out to share, but -- sorry to let the cat out of the bag! -- what WP's doing here can't be kept going without acting on opinions and, i dunno but it seems like maybe, humility about those opinions helps grease the wheels. If that misleads someone into looking for a formula to utter in order to talk themselves out of an indef block -- looking for "what anyone wants [them] to say about this" -- it's IMO probably understandable, and too bad, but most importantly, a mistake.) --Jerzy•t 01:03, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If I could butt in; I don't know anything about this case, but I think he should get another chance. Jpgordon's statement that there's "no indication this behaviour will cease" is a bit unfair given that the user can't really do anything at the moment aside from request unblocking here... I say Godheval gets another chance. Of course, if he wrecks it, then there's no bargaining. Master of Puppets  Call me MoP! :)  04:51, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Beg pardon? Unfair? Of course he could do something -- and he did, in the next request, promise to modify his behavior. I'd have unblocked him (or at least shortened the penalty) just for that promise, had I noticed it when correcting his deletion of my review of the original unblock. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 05:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, based on Jpgordon's assessment here, which I agree with, and because you've been blocked for a week already, and your promise to stop, I've lifted the block. But you have to understand that this is serious.  If you want to work with images you have to understand the WP:NFCC, and not go calling people names when they try to enforce it.  In particular, the "non-commercial" thing is a clear misunderstanding  on your part.  Wikipedia itself is non-commercial but Wikipedia licenses its content under the GFDL which allows for commercial use.  So images that are restricted to non-commercial use are considered non-free images on Wikipedia.  Lots of people misunderstand this, but most of them come to learn and accept that this is the rule.  Mango juice talk 13:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Master of Puppets and Mangojuice. To Jpgordon - I deleted your decline because I didn't understand how to make a second request.  As for the image issue, well that was a small thing in the grand scheme of things.  My issues were more around a feeling that certain admins were trailing me, monitoring my actions, and jumping on me with citations of every little rule in the book.  It felt more personal than for the good of WP, and I took issue with that.  Even so, while I do tend to scoff at authority, I did take it pretty far.  I suppose I just have to remember why I come to WP in the first place, that being a respect for the project itself.
 * Having already dissed my own imagination above, i'll add that in this case my imagination is a bit astonished by a slight softening in my opinion of you; that may actually reflect the imbalance between your vicious abuse and your lukewarm self-criticism: it invites a view where you do have a merely cluelessly dismissive mode, between vehemence and the kind of abject renunciations that would evoke suspicion of cynical insincerity. In any case, take some comfort not only that are there fewer than 1600 admins who might be looking over your shoulder, but also that i am no longer doing so, believing that the others who have commented here will feel an obligation to, and that my absence has some chance of moderating your paranoia. Everything you do here is done in public and subject to review. When you do something destructive to the community, it has to be evaluated in the context of what else you've done for good and ill, and that inevitably means admins don't rely just on wandering around "like Cane in Kung-Fu ", stumbling on what needs attention. This is over for me, but not yet for you. If you don't want admins looking over your shoulder, stop doing bad stuff, or go do it on your own blog. --Jerzy•t 16:03, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Shame on me, just above and elsewhere in the section, for emphasizing the role of admins in safeguarding the community, to the exclusion of the (hard to count) editors who share in those responsibilities without, so to speak, carrying a gun or badge. --Jerzy•t 16:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You still talk too much! But for the record, you were not one of the admins I was referring to.  And it's not just paranoia when the same people turn up to undo something you've done, even where that undoing is in accordance with WP policy.  My issue was not in being corrected, but rather that it was always a certain few who so happened to be the one doing the correcting.  Your mention of the fact that there are 1600 admins only reinforces my point, when out of those 1600 only one or two are directly overseeing what I'm doing.
 * I would not have responded to the above at all but for there being a version of it (1 sentence longer as it happens) at User talk:Jerzy. It is only for thoro-ness that i lk from here to my response to it, since this discussion will IMO not be handicapped by continuing without my further involvement and w/o reference to my response. --Jerzy•t 05:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Rolf adventure.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Rolf adventure.png. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 22:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)