User talk:Goldenrowley/archive (001)

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David Alter
Welcome to Wiki and hope to see amny more artcles from you.Congratulations on your article about David Alter.Actually I had created the stub and it is rewarding to note that someone has expanded it so soon.I have suggested that this artcle be listed on the main page to highlight this very great scientist who is not that well known.Congratulations once again(Vr 05:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC))
 * Thank you this is one interest we have in common. Goldenrowley 21:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Myth
Great work getting all those myth articles stubbed! You might be interested in the Myth and folklore missing articles project. --Bookgrrl 19:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I am still at it. I had to create missing myth stubs. I just received approval this week to make stub types for myths from the middle east, north america, central america, south america and Australia so have been sorting myths from those continents all weekend. Goldenrowley 21:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Talk page comments
REGARDING I ASKED ADMIN IF I CAN EDIT MY TALK PAGES:

It's usually cool to do whatever you want with your talk page (with only one exception that doesn't apply). &mdash; Laura Scudder &#9742; 15:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

link to Persian
Hello, when you want to link to the article about something Persian, please do not link to Persian, as that is a disambiguation page (which nothing should be linked to). Instead link to the one of the options found on that page such as Persian people, Persian language, or Iran, by writing out Persian or Persian. Regards, Jeff3000 06:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Jeff, I had a message from you not to link to the Persia page, because it is a disambig page (which works like a table of contents), but I politely disagreed. Why can no one can link to 'Persia' or "Persian'? Just because it is a disambig pages does not mean it is useless as a reference, the opposite, it is very useful. I think on the articles I am working with (the orphans) they use the word Persia in a way that people just want to be referred to a general list of Persian topics to pick from, and not have me hand-pick the articles for them. Goldenrowley 19:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Please see Disambiguation pages with links. From that page "Ideally, Wikipedia articles should not link to disambiguation pages (with rare exceptions where the ambiguity of a term is being discussed); instead links should go directly to the appropriate article.".  There are certain exceptions to this rule, but for a very large marjority of links, the links should not be to disambiguation pages.  In specific sentences when one is using the word Persian, I cannot think of a good reason to link to Persian, because usually it is used as a specific adjective, such as language, architecture, cuisine, and thus it should be linked to that specific article, or the Iran, as the source of that characterititic. Regards. -- Jeff3000 19:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * OK Jeff now I see the disamb. policy is to avoid the linkage... thanks for the help. Going forward, I think I will send most of the orphan articles to "Persian Empire" instead of "Persian", etc. ... Thanks!

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jeff3000"

Great work on the dead-end T section!
I was wondering where I'd find the patience to look at the rest of the pages there again.... --Alvestrand 15:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Note to others -- when you write an article please please please give it a few links the very first day, so that it does not appear on the dead-end pages for volunteers to add links to the next month. This is on behalf of the volunteers trying to add links to 1000 of articles, especially those starting with the letters: S and T.  Goldenrowley 20:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Ohlone population numbers
Goldenrowley, I saw your reference to population for Ohlone. Those numbers are not supportable. I have moved your entry to the comment section, and bookmarked my own notes. Could we discuss them there? meatclerk 07:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC) Done, probably in greater detail since I have a source at hand. Goldenrowley 07:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, the pages are promised are now online. here. Let me know if you need anything else. meatclerk 05:55, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology
There are two criteria a project has to meet to be listed as active and/or remain ineligible for deletion or movement. They are to have activity on the page in the past 3 months and to have at least one listed member. Right now this project has no members. It looks like it has a wealth of useful data and I would welcome seeing it remaining where it is. Badbilltucker 16:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: I added myself immediately upon hearing it was in danger with no members. It is a good project with a great templates, calling others to join me. Goldenrowley 20:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Stub Macro...?
I'm assuming you mean StubSense. A link in the "header" of WP:WSS/P sounds like a good idea, certainly. Alai 17:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC) -->to be done asap Goldenrowley 19:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Odd-looking edit...
I do hope your browser hasn't contracted whatever's ailing Grutness's.   Alai 07:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC) --->keeping an eye on my browser now! reply sent to Alai Goldenrowley 19:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

My notes
Goldenrowley, just to let you know on my notes - I just completed the software that takes my notes, written in wikipedia style (I call wikitype) and they spit out HTML. The purpose is to take the dozen or so page of notes and make the publicly avialable. I still need to write a master (or index) page creator, but I see that as easy - as soon as I get a bit of sleep. BTW, could you use Milliken? or another source? -- meatclerk 09:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

My original notes on population are cleaned up. You can see them here -> The Population of the California Indians, 1769-1970. Sorry I don't have any numbers south of Santa Clara County, but I think I can handle that and give you totals next week. -- meatclerk 08:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Stub proposal archives
Hi there! The archived discussions can be found at WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive, summarized in sections and linked to the archive itself. I only discovered the archives a while back by seeing the "A" next to "Proposals" in the small blue WikiProject Stub Sorting menu on the right. Let me know if you can't find something. Cheers, Her Pegship 20:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

US-art-museum-stub
Hi, I'm a little confused about this one. You listed it on speedy deletion as a "very short article with no context" and the edit summary said all links had been moved (it's still used in a couple of articles though), so I turned it back into a redirect instead. I also see you listed it in the "to be deleted" section on stub types for deletion. However I can't seem to find a record of any debate to delete or rename it logged anywhere. All I find is the sucessfull proposal to create it. Mind cluing me in on where the consensus to delete this was reached? --Sherool (talk) 07:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind, finaly found it here I was just looking in the wrong place. Sorry to have troubeled you. --Sherool (talk) 07:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: I took care to investigate of course and do it right from now on, of course. Goldenrowley 20:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thank you
No problem, I just got a little confused when it was listed under stub deletions with no actual deletion debate in sight. For future refence when merging stuff just redirect the old title to the new one like you originaly did. The exception is categories, redirecting them doesn't quite work as expected so we delete those. It helps to use a more spesific deletion template though, either db-catempty, or something like or whatever to make it more clear why it should be deleted. Tagging it with a template that says it's an article with little context is just plain confusing ;) --Sherool (talk) 18:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Note: I thanked Sherool back.

syncing work
Goldenrowley, we step on each other's work. If you can, please use  . I've already almost wiped out your edits. Would hate to loss good work. --meatclerk 07:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Goldenrowley, don't worry too much over the syncing. Use the tag when you can please. Also, not too many appoligize either. My work in a grocery store gets me many appologize for things people never should appoloigize for; sometime it irriates me.

On Ishi, we should just forget about that until I have time for the bio on Kroeber and Merriam, sometime next year. BTW, Milliken does a brilliant job of avoiding many subjects, population, hunter-gather as examples. Nonetheless, still very good material, a cut above Margolin.

On other issues, I have had some sleep now, so I'm better. My typing might show it. Today, I need to finish some things before I get to the topic of hunter-gather. This includes two (2) flats on my bicycle. --meatclerk 17:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The normal fashion...
When something's been tagged for deletion via one of the "*FD processes", it'll be deleted (or otherwise) by someone working their way down the process page. If you remove the *FD tag, and replace it with a "speedy" tag, it gives the impression it's not been through the "process" at all, which will cause untold confusion when an admin dealing with "speedies" sees it, on the basis of that categorisation. At which don't they're either likely to conclude it's not speediable, i they don't look at the history, or wonder why someone is removing *FD tags, if they do. (And SFD is a relative "quiet backwater": if you did that at AFD, you'd be speedily lynched.)  So in short, don't.  Alai 16:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What we say on "speedies" is probably neither clear nor consistent, since the only "official" CSDs we have are those for categories, and for "nonsense". But under no circumstances does it make sense to change the tagging of something to a "speedy" after a SFD nomination has concluded, which is rather to graft one process onto another, in a rather misleading way. (If you want is to gently poke an admin into completing the closure, you can list the affected template/category in the "to delete" section, if it's already been closed, and you've completed the "emptying" process.)  Alai 16:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Note I encapsulated the above instructions, in newbie language, and proposed it on the Stub instruction page discussion page today. Goldenrowley 21:35, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Ohlone, current work
GR, I see you working at a fever pitch. Just a few notes. In the opening paragraph, "40 different tribal names" is difficult to support, especially when you are adding all the names. As you might have noted, I try to stay clear of such numbers. Hence, the reason I challenged Bruce on 1300 years. It may be true, but no one we know was around 1300 years ago. Anyhow, I should buy you a beer, or coffee, or fruit juice (in case you are Mormon), because you do such a nice job on my sloppy writing. --meatclerk 05:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You know I just feel I am organizing things, if nothing else I put things in historical date order. Then at least we have an order. Goldenrowley 05:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Placement of Traditional Narratives
Hi, Goldenrowley.

I'm in the process of contributing sections on traditional narratives for all of the California groups. Initially I had thought of making them separate articles, but because I don't anticipate that they will contain extended discussions of the contents of the narratives (at least for now), their content seemed a little thin to stand alone. So I decided to go with sections in the general articles for the ethnic groups. Because I'm keying them through a template in the general "Traditional narratives (Native California)" article, it's probably desirable to be consistent, one way or the other. I'm open to discussion as to which way would be better, and I'm willing to change the ones I've already posted. Let me know what you think.

As to the title, I think "traditional narratives" is preferable to "mythology". Many of the narratives involved (for instance, many of the trickster stories) technically aren't myths; they're tales or legends, in the terminology of folklorists, anthropologists, and Wikipedia itself....RhymeNotStutter 03:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * oK thanks its not a bad idea to separate religion from folklore here. I am thinking it over, and mythology pages I imagined were going to cover religion, spirituality, the creation myth and stories of the world order... the basis of the group's philosophy and religion. I can't call them folklore and narratives, thats downsizing them, but I did not do a good job of it yet. i.e. The Miwok belived Coyote created the world, so did the Pomo so to them coyote is "ancestor" and a "creator god" not just "folklore".  However I read the article your referring to and its very good. what I suggest is you add the narrative sections as new material but don't overwrite the headings of mythology, just add the topic narratives as a new topic....does that sound good?   Goldenrowley 04:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if you're going to continue burying these listing in one article after another, I guess I'll have to start moving all the discussions of traditional narratives out of the main tribal articles and into separate articles. I really don't think you understand the purpose of presenting these sources -- they're not citations for purposes of documentation or recommendations for further reading. I also think you may be missing the nonlinear character of an on-line encyclopedia -- users aren't necessarily expected to read an article from top to bottom, but they need to be offered a clear flow leading them on to related information. RhymeNotStutter 00:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Rhyme! I respectfully have to disagree in some respects,   See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout .  Goldenrowley 01:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I've put the traditional narratives material in separate articles now. I haven't deleted redundant material or put in "See also" references in the articles you're actively editing (Bay Miwok, Coast Miwok, Lake Miwok, Valley and Sierra Miwok, Miwok Mythology, Ohlone, and Pomo). Feel free to do so, or let me know if you want me to do it.RhymeNotStutter 16:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Ryhme! I like the new pages it works for now and for any future expansion. Sorry I did not explain myself very well the other day, what I've been is using the ethnic templates as my guide for the native groups in the Bay Area Region, also using the Wikipedia style guide, and the A+ article called Mandan as an example for these pages. I will make a short summary sentence and link to the new narrative pages. Here is a good category you could put them into: category:Native American culture Goldenrowley 19:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Abandoned at my young age
Hey what's up. Just teasing you. Are you done, for now with Oholone? If so, that's okay. Just checking. You see: I add, you edit. :-), but if you are on to other things, that is fine too. --meatclerk 06:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Since, I did not hear from you, I assume you went to bed. On the intro, I started over. Here is the general outline.


 * The three (3) terms (Costanoan, Ohlone, Muwekma), past, current confused and future.
 * Condensed article.

Encyclopedic forms start with a condensed paragraph, not always, but mostly. Please look into this.

Done:
 * Archive of most old conversations.
 * Archive unresolved issues.
 * some notes to book reviews and research aids.

Off Thursday, first task: get CHSQ article on A.S. Taylor, and write wikiarticle. That's it. --meatclerk 08:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Take your time. I'll be working on my version of wikipedia on my personal machine. --meatclerk 03:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Going to bed early, if you have something. Message in the next 10 minutes please. --meatclerk 04:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll admit I made up the word. I thought it existed. As in, ethologist, ethnolinguist, etc. I assumed that a general term had to exist for all these people doing the same thing. That's what I was writing. --meatclerk 04:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Watch your edits
I've fixed a variety of things you've somehow "rubbed out" or distorted (by accident). For instance, Ohlone in the current introduction is distorted; three or four times when you've moved things around the footnotes break and you've distorted titles of books and article by reducing the original. Anyway, I fixed some. --meatclerk 06:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I also note your are not wholey familiar with HTML and floating dialogs. So, may I suggest that you not make any fancy layouts on the page. You may note, mind are simple. Intentionally so; for instance Native words lines up nicely if the browser is at full screen, but if the browser window gets reduced in size, then the Legend disappears below the text. One solution is to create an invisible outer box, the top holds the visible table and the bottom holds the legend; which now never floats away under some text.

In closing, I don't want to discourage what you are doing, but for try not to get too fancy. :-) --meatclerk 07:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

As you can tell, I can't sleep (two nights in a row). BTW, here are my notes on salmon myths, so far.

http://www.didgood.com/community/historic/books/2%20-%20RWC%20Library%20-%20Historical%20Room/TheNativeRaces.html

--meatclerk 08:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Response is: Thanks for the sources you don't happen to have Theodore Kroeber Almost Ancestors do you? I need to verify the creation myth. I am curious why you decided to take out the quote from Brown on the burnt fields after you spent so much time researching it, it is specific to the Ohlone, did notyou want it? Also curious why you felt necessary to put back Cook's quote. Cook was a generalist. In any case I'll leave it up to you (but I suggest the Brown quote is specific to Ohlone and interesting while Cook quote is generic).Goldenrowley 04:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Travelers' Accounts
Goldenrowley, as you know I make notes in the library and if I find anything interesting you are welcome to it. My notes on this article are for my use, but I did note that the traveler did take accounts of religion, traditions and myths. My notes may be of no use to you, but you might take note of the volume and title. Here it is. --meatclerk 22:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

On Theodora Kroeber, I only have Ishi and it has no index, or TOC.

On Cook, I believe that his quote noting "white men" as the culprits was important. Your right; as soon as a California Indians article is written I will move it over. Till then it needs a home, perhaps a shallow home, but home none the less. But also on that, might recall one of my message about over trimming, or editing. On that, I see this as thrashing on an article that if far from complete. Bruces actions on this are about the same.

On Brown, I have removed the quotes (perhaps more than one) until the article settles. Currently, there is quite a bit of thrashing, especially the intro (perhaps my fault on that). But really I don't recall removing a quote, if I did. In any case, if I see something majorly wrong I will speak up.

More on overediting. I'm currently cleaning up my database and book collection. I have perhaps 50 books that need entry so I can track them. I have perhaps just as many notes in electronic format. So, on one of the last editing points, where you added my reference(La Penninsula), but I did not have my notes in order, I needed to spend 2 hours to fix my notes for online viewing. Note: I am not complaining or critizing your actions, it's just that I need to put my notes in order - Which is what I am doing tonight. --meatclerk 06:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for proof reading A.S. Alexander. I will always appreciate it, as writing is not my strong point. I was always better at reading and math, but writing was a chore - perhaps because of my MSG intolerance. Anyway thanks. meatclerk 07:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Population of Native California
Excellent work. Feel free to move the quote over. If you don't have time, I will get to it in a few days. Thanks to both of you. --meatclerk 07:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

More pointers to myths
I'm cleaning up my notes and I see more notes on myths. The Notes are here. Take note of '''4. Myths and Legends, pg. 297¥'''. The scanned page is linked. Once you see what you want go back to the main page and on the top half you'll see Literature cited. From there the links (or scanned pages) are the Bibliography for the book. Lastly, I need to add the minerals for Ohlone to the list. Right now it is just San Mateo County. --meatclerk 11:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you /re Cook

Hi thnak you for the new myth notes, is super organized of you. On giving a full citations on the Ohlone page starting with Cook: are you taking the initiative on that one, or should I? Goldenrowley 21:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

New team Member
I going to revert the article (Ohlone) again. But before I do, I thought it would be useful to write why I am doing so.

For this person I have left two (2) message (See User_talk:Aleventh) Both message acknowledge the good work and accuracy of the citations. However, if you look at the contributions, you will note, as I have, this person has only added to this article. Likely, this person is closely related to the Ohlone. How so, I am not sure. Even so, additions show more recognition of the subject than we do. However, this person's knowledge of wikipedia is poor - as shown by the edits.

It behooves us to teach this person how to make proper edits, else we will be making corrections - without communications, and possibly errors in our corrections. If you have a counter-point, I will reduce my position to reflect any possible alternatives. --meatclerk 03:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I found some of the additions trying to help us fill in on our requested citations. I was going to let the new persons today's edits in, and only delete those truly uncited and detrimental. Since I've already put an hour into it I'd suggest you just seehow it looks a little later in the evenint (say around 9 pm?) Goldenrowley 04:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Acknowledging your good work, the additions will stay; I will not revert. Any suggestions on how to communicate with this person? --meatclerk 04:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Aside from user talk pages and article discussion pages, there is no other way you could get a new person's attention. I did however just send the new person the same greeting and instructions I received when I joined. Goldenrowley 05:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay. Also, looks like you are done for tonight. As such, I will check off any completed sections. --meatclerk 05:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Our mutal friend is continuing to make additions without citations. Luckily they are beyond the sections we have checked. I also see you are still editing. So I have made no marks tonight. Your suggestions on our friend? BTW, this page is on my watchlist. --meatclerk 07:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * On our mutal friend and any others, time is not the issue for allowing any person to fix, contribute or modify. The issue is when we are gone. That is, when our time is up, you and I will no longer be around to fix anything. We just won't be here. Hence, politely nugging a person is the correct path, but sometimes you have to step on their feet (not toes) to get their attention. Then say, as nicely as possible, we are working in the same direction.


 * From the contributions our mutal friend is making, it appears (s)he is better informed and likely to make better entries than we could, given similar circumstances. As such, the idea is to support the actives.


 * For instance, in your case, you drive me nuts making constant changes, but stopping you would be counter productive. In addition, your entries seem clearer than mine, given similar time constraints. As such, I see it beneficial to let you do what you want, then cleanup behind you. The errors you leave are minor, and in many cases you return the favor by correcting articles I work on exclusively. This last part (your corrections on my articles) is more valuable than any ego point I might have in Ohlone.


 * So if its not clear, while you drive me nuts, at times, and our mutal friend is likely to do the same, then it is in our mutal interest to accomidate(sp?) each other. But this accomadation(sp?) can only happen if we communicate in an explict manner; not implict is as is happening when 'mutal friend' adds, but thrashs Wikipedia convention and guidelines. Even then, allowing this person to thrash might benefit us in an unknown way.


 * Respectfully, --meatclerk 22:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, It looks like your a little exasperated with me please forgive that I copy edit so much, writing is a hard and laborious process for me, at times. It is of course not my intention to "drive you nuts" this is only an attempt to write and finish the article in the most thorough and professional English. In my defense I think I am adding a lot of good research here, I've got my four books checked out from the library and read them, mostly cover to cover. I added some topics I thought were basic to a cultural/historical discussion, and have pretty much reached the end of my goal.  I've been writing slowly, and carefully from the sources (although I can be blind to some of my own errors) ...On new people, I don't understand where a convention was trashed by new person, I actually liked their additions this week... You've said a lot more and concluded we should accommodate each other's work... and on that, I can agree. Respectfully, Goldenrowley 03:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Great work

 * Thanks! Even though I don't use userboxes :P I would love to part of the project. I have a great love for mythology of all kinds...as it is very interesting. If you need my help or want me to do something please let me know. Cheers!__ Seadog ♪ 23:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :)
Hey, thanks for the Barnstar for Mythology! I haven't been working on it much lately (end of semester craziness) but hope to get back to it soon. It's a long-standing interest of mine and I've learned SO MUCH from working on the hotlist topics. --Bookgrrl 17:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Triple deities
What was it that you wanted sourced? The article is really just a pointer to articles on more specific topics that (I hope) source their details. I don't think the article is providing any "facts" that need to be sourced (I guess it could source that triple deities even exist in myth at all, but that seems kind of pointless given that each of the articles it refers to will/should already provide such sourcing. It's just a list, really.  Maybe it should even be renamed to List of triple deities]] .  Maybe you can tell me what you're after, and I'll see what I can dig up. &mdash;  SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 13:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, in answer to your question, I think this article has a lot of potential to be popular (and highly used) under the categoory of religion and mythological archetypes and could be expanded. Where did the trinity/triune definitions come from? That could be the source for the introduction. What souce said this is a "mythological archetype" (if any)? This is to enhance and validate the article. Thank you! Goldenrowley 02:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ojibwe and Algonkin
I noticed you removed the merge tags on Michabo and Algonquin mythology. These articles are part of a larger discussion we're having at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Anishinaabe. I'm of an opinion that the word Algonquian is really only useful in linguistics, but it is often confused with Algonquin, which is a specific tribe that lives in Quebec and is part of the larger group of Anishinaabe peoples along with the Ojibwe(Chippewa). I wouldn't support an article on Algonquian mythology as the differences between Cree and Powhatan, Blackfoot and Abenaki are too vast. However, Chippewa mythology and Algonquin mythology could conceivably come under the umbrella of Anishinaabe mythology. I invite you to comment at this talk page. Leo1410 04:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for letting me know. I have just paused on making the Algonquin mythology stub and responded to your team on their talk page. One mythology article per ethnic group works very well in California, while I am not that familiar with Canadian First Nations. Goldenrowley 05:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject mythology
Don't know how/why I didn't get my name onto WikiProject_Mythology when you invited me on my talk page a few months back, but now I'm there. Belated thanks, and looking forward to continuing to spread mythinformation ;) --Bookgrrl 00:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Beowulf
Dear Goldenrowley, I disagree with you labelling Beowulf mythological. The other characters surrounding him are held to be semi-legendary or semi-historical. If you call him "legendary" I would not oppose it.--Berig 09:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * About category selection: I don't understand why he can't be both a legendary king and mythological king at the same time? I think he is also a mythological king of the dark ages as he went beyond legend of an ordinary man to become the allegory of 'kingship' who faught with monsters and dragons. I just read a chapter on Beowulf in the book "Storytelling & Mythmaking: Images from Film & Literature" by Frank McConnell: McConnell who gives Beowulf as the example of the epic King and mythological king because of the allegorical performed to the people making the world safe from chaos. I put this on the talk page for people to discuss. Goldenrowley 19:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, if you insist on categorizing him as mythological, you can do that. I am not impossible. My reasons for objecting to it is the fact that Scandinavian kings from the 6th century and onwards enter the realm of semi-historicity. Hygelac is widely accepted as based on a historic figure, and the contemporary Swedish king Ohthere is often called the "first historic king of Sweden". You can find older scholarship where Beowulf is held to have been a historic figure as well. Moreover, AFAIK, legend is distinguished from myth due to the fact that legend takes place in real world settings, and was at the time it was composed held to be almost historical if not outright historical, like Beowulf.--Berig 19:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok I am not impossible either so I like to give it time for thought before doing more. Historical people and events can become mythological, see King Arthur. On kings, there are going to be grey areas between legend and myth. Goldenrowley 19:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Looks like you've become popular enough to have your user page vandalized... I reverted it for you. WHeimbigner 21:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

List of Libyan children in HIV trial in Libya
Out of courtesy, I'm advising you that your Speedy Delete and my Hangon were deleted from List of Libyan children in HIV trial in Libya. Simesa 23:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ceramics stub
Hi. A very new user, Theriac, has interpreted the connection of the Ceramics-stub to Ceramics (art) in a very literal way, and is gleefully removing it from all articles relating to factory-produced ceramics, on the basis apparently that ceramics of artistic merit cannot be produced in factories (up to and including Chelsea and Sevres...). Before going any further with it I wanted to check with you what your intention was when you proposed the original stub - I presume, from the articles on which you have placed it, that it was wider than that, and was intended to refer to a broader range of china, but I'd be very interested to know which articles it was meant to cover? Thanks, HeartofaDog 02:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi HeartofaDog, I highly appreciate your asking for help to the original "ceramics stub" author, what an honor...! On the Ceramics the stub the parent category is decorative arts not regulated just to FINE ART. Ceramics and pottery can be both ornamental and functional. I believe factories can produce decorative art, Wedgwood comes to mind, Pottery as a subset of Ceramics can be factory made. I would have you put back some of the stubs if they are currently unstubbed ?Goldenrowley 03:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem - I am always cautious with stubs. I agree entirely with what you say about this one. The problem arose because the definition on the stub page links only to a rather poor article on Ceramics (art), which looks as if it was thrown together without much thought to make a distinction from industrial ceramics. Yes, I'm happy to put them back - better still if the remover ca\n be persuaded to do it!HeartofaDog 00:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No need - I've already reverted the affected ones. Also, although the user name is new, this is in fact NOT a new user, but someone with a track record under their IP address.
 * The article Ceramics (art) is truly awful as it stands, and needs a re-write to cover all non-industrial ceramics applications. The definition page for "ceramics-stub" also needs a good overhaul, as the present misunderstanding is a very natural one given how it presently reads. Happy to give a hand if you would find it useful? HeartofaDog 01:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, I could use a helping hand, if you know how to fix the article "ceramics (art)" or create a broader article...and want to do it! I did not plan to do it myself, I am more of a painter but sorted all the art stubs last fall into basic categories and check them once in a while. I just added "pottery" to the top of the stub category which should help immensely to clarify. THANK you again!! Goldenrowley 01:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I saw your change to the stub category - as you say, it should help. As for the article, no problems - I'll have a go at it, on the basis that whatever I do to it can only be an improvement on what was there already. I've re-written it as a stub for now, to indicate the lines I think it might take - please take a look and do jump in if you think it's going off course.HeartofaDog 02:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello GoldenRowley, I have just found your page by tracking back through the discussion on the ceramics stub. I think discussions are best held on that page but I could you explain you comment above. You say "Also, although the user name is new, this is in fact NOT a new user, but someone with a track record under their IP address." What does this mean? Until last week have read Wikipedia but never written for it. ThanxTheriac 13:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello Theraic, I did not start talking about your IP address I have no idea how people do that and did think it is NOT necessary anyway your obviously have a good point of view. I think you must have mixed up my words with those of HeartofDog? Goldenrowley 18:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, Theriac, it's important to note that sometimes, more than one person may share an IP; for example, computers in libraries, schools, internet cafes, and some households and workplaces are shared and edits made from two or more different people on those would share an IP; so too might edits made from different computers on the same connection (I've noticed, at any rate, that my IP address changes on my laptop based on whether or not I'm using a dialup connection or a free wireless connection like on campus. I'd imagine that the IP there would be at least close to the ones of any other person using that same wireless network). Runa27 15:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Kerlin Gallery
I don't like to be pedantic, but Dublin isn't in Scotland... It is in Ireland. Tyrenius 08:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for point out the right country, I was mistaken. Thank you. Goldenrowley 08:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Easily done! You might want to check out the cats again, as I reverted to the original ones. Tyrenius 09:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi :)
The holidays took a bigger toll on me than I expected. I will be editing next week again. Right now I am staying low. I logged in to check for message, like yours. :-) I should also let you know that I am writing history article for a new local magazine. This was part of my plan. So, I expect it will be published in Feb. or March. It's a new magazine, only 2 issues so far, and is free. In any case, the working title is High time before 1849. It's a collection of items I found interesting, but haven't had a format to write to. I just hope this magazine works out.  --meatclerk 05:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Eagle-small.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Eagle-small.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — BigDT 23:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Bison-small.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Bison-small.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — BigDT 23:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

French folklore
Have you looked at List of fairy tales for French ones? Goldfritha 03:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No I did not know about that really nice resource... thank you Goldfritha!Goldenrowley 03:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Overstubbed... Hmm
Hey, I appreciate your concern about the number of stub categories in the Gyorgy Kepes article I created, but actually I wonder if removing the stubs is really necessary. After all, the fact that I included one or more of those stubs was what brought the article to your attention, right? -- surely it's helpful to acknowledge that articles fall into many categories, and that people do check the stub list for areas in which they have an interest, and to which they might be able to contribute. I realize that it might look a bit ridiculous to have a stub in five categories, but this is (I would argue) an implementation issue, rather than something that's semantically unacceptable. I don't mind, but I get a feeling that you may have a "firefighting" attitude here towards dealing with the overwhelming number of stubs that get created in your particular field, which I think is counterproductive in this case, and maybe even a questionable approach in general.

But I mean this in a friendly way! I hope you can see where I'm coming from, and I'm quite a new user so do let me know if there's a policy somewhere about this issue. So I can discuss it. Theoh 21:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I could not think of a better way to type it but all I mean by over stubbed is there is a hierarchy, if an item falls in a subcategory for example of Ireland you do not not stub it both as an Ireland topic and an "Ireland structure" topic at the same time. The more specific category is listed in the larger categories... that's all I mean, and I wish you very well in your work here. Goldenrowley 23:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi again, I took specific look at your article "György Kepes" you refer to see what I was thinking on that item in particular and think it is a bio article about an artist. the artist stubs are the correct stub when it is an artist, not "art history". I removed the "art history stub" because that section does no cover all the artists in history, rather it covers periods of art. Design I think is for designed things, not for designers... isn't it? I sometimes make mistakes butin this case I think we've got it categorized correctly with 3 stubs. Goldenrowley 06:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight redirect
The redirect you created The Outlandish Knight that points to Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight is up for deletion because it is not understood how these are related (The Outlandish Knight appears to also be a 1999 book by Richard Adams). Would you please comment at Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 January 23 how they are linked and expand Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight to include this link as well? Thanks! Cburnett 22:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks cburnett I've expanded substantially and added two sources. The full ballad and variations are all online at the source mentioned. Goldenrowley 03:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Printmaker categories
Please try to remember to add these where applicable; for example this was a very short stub but had plenty of references to his printmaking.

Since you seem to do most of the category work on art & printmaking, I'll ask if you know if there is a grand plan for printmaking categories? I find them pretty confusing at the moment. Some obvious parts of the scheme are missing - eg no German etchers category. As you no doubt know, dividing by technique is not really a good way to go, as very many printmaking artists use several (quite often in the same work). By nationality is slightly better (although it creates problems like Belgium), but personally I think the ideal would be to divide by period, and then by nationality. The periods would be:


 * Early (C15)
 * Renaissance
 * Baroque
 * C18 (or C18 and romantic)
 * C19
 * C20 (or Modernist to say 1960)
 * contemporary

- obviously a few people might have to go into two groups, but overall it would make much more sense.

It doesn't help that the EB 1911 uses what was even then the outdated (now definitely incorrect) "wood-engraving" for "woodcut", and also often calls etchings engravings, just out of sheer carelessness I expect. Johnbod 00:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Johnbod I appreciate the confidence in me to talk about printmaking, an art-form and skill I admire although I am not an expert just an art lover in this category. We all share in Wikpidia equally so your opinion is just as valid as mine what to do with printmaking categories. I like the division by style.period the best.  I'd Look at art movements to see what the styles are called in C15, C18, C19 perhaps. Goldenrowley 04:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

ok, thanks. I'll refine the proposal & post it at the visual arts talk page & printmaking one. Johnbod 02:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

CHICOTW GAonhold
TonyTheTiger 23:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Category:Manuscript stubs
Can I ask that in future, when, or ideally before, you make any proposals on categories falling under the Visual arts project you advertise the proposal at the talk page there, and other relevant pages also? Really you should put it up for discussion there first. The stub-sorting project is hardly a place where you are going to get a wide or informed debate on the issues.

I must say I can't see the point of this category at all. Of course most articles on individual manuscripts are fairly short, and are likely to stay so for a very long time. Many important manuscripts are only of importance for a few illustrated pages - sometimes just one. The assertion in the debate (if it can be called that) that many of these have literary importance seems extremely dubious to me - the great majority of illuminated manuscripts contain standard religious texts (or sometimes standard secular ones), and most of the rest of the category seems to me to consist of Biblical texts or legal documents.

You obviously put a lot of time into stub-shuffling and marking, but I'm afraid I can't see the usefullness of much of it. At the moment the stub project seems to be in a little bubble of its own. Johnbod 20:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The art and literature stubs were rather full of stubs to sort between and illuminated manuscripts were placed in art history, but that did not seem quite right. Now they have a perm category under literature: manuscripts. Goldenrowley 20:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Art history is exactly right for the vast majority of illuminated manuscripts, and literature wrong, for the reasons I just explained - how many illuminated manuscripts have literary significance? I am minded to propose this category for deletion, unless you can come up with a useful justification for its existence. Johnbod 20:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I am sorry I did not know you or anyone of the Wikiproject Art group would want to review art stubs in advance, and now want an explanation, and you would express such lack of interest in having a manuscript-stub category. But please do not go petitioning to delete my new stub. I am not finished yet maybe you'll see the usefulness when I have finished identifying more manuscripts.  The manuscripts are still under art history stubs, go to art history stubs, then notice how easy it is to find all the manuscripts because they are all in one place categoruized as manuscripts, under art history.  Honestly, like paintings, They are works of art, not really about art history. I am interested in this genre enough to group them as a set. AND The art stubbing area was and still is very large and broad category. Inventing  subcategories stubs help people find what they are looking for easily and quickly under art.  Lastly, if you are an active art project member, I may suggest the art project should send people into stub sorting to watch proposals on a regular basis, 3 art proposals passed this week (only 1 was mine, and on the others I voiced my thoughts loudly, since I am on both projects)Goldenrowley 01:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I think I am over-reacting, and I misunderstood that that you not changing the category structure as such, just reflecting the existing one. So I won't apply for deletion - but I still can't see much utility in the category. All the illuminated manuscripts were already in that category, and most of them are stubs. People interested in illuminated manuscripts are generally not the same as those interested in other types of manuscript (except in the case of musical ones, which have their own category already).  Art history is the right parent for them, as that is where other historical periods and types of art are put.    Johnbod 03:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes I expect you will find only a few that aren't stubs; but remember in many cases only a few pages are really of interest - even a short article may be more than encyclopedic, so I think you should tend not to stub them if in doubt - I don't have a problem with the stub/not-stub of any I have seen so far. Johnbod 03:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay I am reasonable person what I think is missing is the "art" manuscripts were going to get jumbled in with all sorts of manuscripts over time. I just proposed the following at proposals (*that we do one just for illuminated manuscripts*) When stubs are proposed, the meeting is open for 5 days and you and the art team are all welcome to come: [ ] Goldenrowley 05:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ceramic (art) & ethical pottery
Hi Goldenrowlely, I just wanted to say that I think both articles are progressing well. Nice work! ThanxTheriac 12:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Aztec codices
Are you sure the Aztec codices really count as illuminated manuscripts? --Ptcamn 07:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes... I think that Aztec Codex are illuminated manuscripts PROVIDED they are illustrated. The Wikipedia definition is: "An illuminated manuscript is a manuscript in which the text is supplemented by the addition of decoration or illustration, such as decorated initials, borders and miniatures. In the strictest definition of the term, an illuminated manuscript only refers to manuscripts decorated with gold or silver. However, in both common usage and modern scholarship, the term is now used to refer to any decorated manuscript."Goldenrowley 16:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The thing is, all Aztec codices are illustrated. The pictures are their primary means of written communication — they didn't have alphabetic writing until the Spanish came. Rather than "text supplemented by the addition of decoration", it's pictograms supplemented by textual captions and explanations. I think illuminated manuscripts as discussed in the article is referring to a particular European tradition of manuscript decoration. --Ptcamn 01:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Invitation
Hello – Based on your significant contribution to one or more San Francisco Bay Area-related articles and/or stated interests on your homepage, I thought you might be interested in this project:

Peter G Werner 04:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * PS – I have no idea why the "Collaboration of the week" has made its way into the above template. Anyway, you're invited to joine Wikiproject SFBA in you're interested. Peter G Werner 04:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Manuscript names
I think it it is best to follow the practice of most articles (all except yours perhaps) in the category, & not use just the catalogue/shelf ref as the title of the article. Either the name of the Library or some descriptive phrase should also be included. Also in some, you don't actually say which Library they are in. Cheers Johnbod 15:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * PS I'm also a bit dubious about using a German plural form and an umlaut in Category:Fechtbücher. Normally you can add redirects for -buecher & -bucher, but not with a category. Is there no English term?   Johnbod 15:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I am sorry I did not understand your comment to me, maybe it is meant for someone else, since I never wrote a single manuscript article...so I won't know what libraries they come from or anything.Goldenrowley 16:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * So sorry - this is not you at all (dbachmann mostly). Apologies - my carelessness! Cheers Johnbod 16:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * NO problem. Goldenrowley 16:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

China-road-stub
Just to notify that I have responded to your comment. :-) &mdash; Instantnood 11:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Myth academia
I've noticed you've done a lot of work on mythology. Would you please read and tell me what you think? Thanks --Ephilei 01:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I applaud you. It is on the Myth project "to do" list to elevate myth articles from being fun/curious to sacred and symbolic. It takes pateince and work. The main mythology page has many definitions formyth some in the sacred category. All you need are references. References help to keep things from being deleted and protected. Goldenrowley 04:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Category error corrected
In The Lighthouse in Economics you had added Category:Lighthouses. This seemed to be an error. I removed the category. Jerry 16:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But don't we file lighthouses under the category of lighthouses? Oh well I'll let this one go.Goldenrowley 17:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Architecture stubs
I'm a bit concerned about edits such as this. Architecture, as a fine art is distinct from construction. It is useful to maintain architecture tags on architecturally important articles for this reason - I'd have no problem with both tags being added, or even a russia-arch-stub being created - but now those articles will have architecture lumped together with Arkansas cell phone mast IV and others..... Would you mind restoring the tags or doing something that satisfies these concerns? Many thanks. --Mcginnly | Natter 12:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * PS the arch-style-stub is a good idea - perhaps a mention at WP:WPARCH might be a good idea? --Mcginnly | Natter 12:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just following existing guidelines already existing: "buildings and structures" are filed with "building and structures" >often by country. Please refer to this Wikiproject architecture page which goes over the guidelines: [lasthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Architecture/Stub_categories WIkiproject Architecture stubs]. Or go to the main stub table of contents page. These categories are formed and agreed upon by consensus.   Goldenrowley 15:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Please use valid examples, there is not such Arkansas cell phone mast IV article when I checked, and Arkansas things would not lumpled in with Russian buildings. Goldenrowley 15:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I was using an extreme example to make a point - Rugby transmitting station is not architecture - it is construction, so gets filed under buildings and structures in England (Or warwickshire, wherever it is). The Imperial War Museum North however is both construction and architecture - it has some art about it so gets filed under deconstructivism and daniel libeskind categories that are all subcats of architecture. It clearly is no longer a stub - but its useful to the project to be able to distinguish between construction and architecture. There's no guideline that suggests replacing one with the other - where have you read that - the stub category page simply lists possible appropriate stubs because the architecture wikiproject serves as an umbrella project for civil and structural engineering - as well as architectre - Please don't be defensive, it's no problem - but can we restore the arch-stub tags - if you want to have both arch-stub and struc-stubs, then thats fine. --Mcginnly | Natter 17:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I spent some time researching your request. Yes I have been sorting architectural stubs this week (as there are many errors in those stubs). If an article says a building has artistic metic I will leave the stub on for now, simply as I do not want to take a stand its not my "project". I think the "architecture" category treee is rather circular, it has "buildings" next to "architecture" on one tree and below "architecture" on another. In any case it claims all buildings, everywhere in the world, are architecture. It lumps buildings already. The link I meant to show you is [WikiProject Architecture stub categories]. Goldenrowley 02:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The category stucture is circular, but that's fine - please read WP:CAT, this is because the structure reflects the idea that a building can be both construction and architecture at the same time. The best analogy I can offer is perhaps the difference between literature and the telephone book - both contain writing but one is simply utilitarian. Defining architecture as 'not utilitarian' can be confusing as well however, because it is one of the few fine arts that also has a practical purpose. Returning to your edit of Gosprom (which clearly is architecture btw) it makes no mention of being artistic and so, by your reasoning, won't get the architecture stub tag and will be lumped in with Druzhba pipeline. Whereas, before your edits, people could identify the architecture stubs from the 'other' stubs, now they can't - this hasn't been a change for the better. So, please, for the third time of asking, please revert your edits that removed architecture stubs. Thanks. --Mcginnly | Natter 14:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * ok when I get time off, I will work on this request. I am at work right now so just acknowledging. Goldenrowley 15:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks G, much obliged. --Mcginnly | Natter 15:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Thanks for putting the arch-stub on Gavi Gangadhareshwara Temple. We are doing a series of articles on Indian architecture and want to avoid POV wars. Sincerely, Mattisse 23:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Welcome
Peter G Werner 16:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Criminology-stub
Dear Goldenrowley, Thanks for the criminology-stub comments. I think the parent category should stay as it is, criminology is definitely fit to an umbrella term for many categories, still, it's better to seperate forensic science and medicine from the criminology category. Of course, criminology stub could be used as a secondary stub for those articles, including articles deals with forensic psychiatry and psychology, even criminal law, though criminology often acknowledges the descipline is the non-legal aspects of crime. Still, there are many divisions of arts and science criminology tag perfectly fits into, like victimology, correctional administration, police science, penology, law enforcement, criminological psychology, research on crime etc. Thanks for the supporting views.--Cyril Thomas 02:41, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay with me. Goldenrowley 00:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Did you know?

 * Thank you that is very, very nice of you !! Goldenrowley 20:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Spectrum analysis
Hi, do you think that spectrum analysis, as a physical concept, is part of the Electromagnetic spectrum or Optical spectrum? If so, why? tpikonen 22:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tpikonen. I do not profess to be a physicist but This was the physicist type study of matter before they could weigh atoms. I think it falls within the categories of both. I Looked at your page of interests and I think it is something like the scattering theory where material can be studied by its waves. Look at the title of Dr Alter's paper "the properties of the combustion of metals" and his conclusion "study of gases of stars, that would be a study of electromagnetic spectrum, no? It would emit a prism of colors so it is in the optical spectrum but the larger field of waves are electromagnetic. I understand electromagnetics are energy waves and to the human eye some

are colors and some are outside our vision. Goldenrowley 01:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe I should add it to scattering theories "Scattering, absorption and radiative transfer (optics)" what do you think? Goldenrowley 01:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * My point was that these categories (EM and optical spectrum) contain articles about the different wavelength regions of the spectrum, not about the methods of studying them or using the spectra for obtaining information on materials, atoms etc. I think the article should anyway be merged to emission spectroscopy, which is a more descriptive and modern name for the technique. The material in spectrum analysis at the moment would make a good "History" section to emission spectroscopy. These techniques have nothing to do with scattering though, I think the categorization to "spectroscopy" suffices. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tpikonen (talk • contribs) 10:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Of course I defer to the source materials at the bottom of the article, but would like to keep more than one categoy for wider applicability to more than one field of study, and readership and applicataion. It is the study of spectrums after all so should remain in the spectrum categoriesGoldenrowley 15:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me repeat: Please take a look at the categories in question. There is not a single article in either Electromagnetic spectrum or Optical spectrum which does not refer to a specific wavelength region, except the article in question. This is because methods dealing with spectra in a more general sense are not wavelength regions, but instead they are called spectroscopies. Also, Optical spectrum happens to be a subcategory of Electromagnetic spectrum so having both makes absolutety no sense. tpikonen 17:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OK you seem to know what you are talking about. I would not however not merge with the article emission spectroscopy until published sources and scientist names are given for emission spectroscopy (do you have some?) saying one led to the other my docs said it laid to Quantum Mechanics. If you want to add sources, or give me sources to read and compare I am reasonable. Goldenrowley 18:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As the source in the spectrum analysis article (Retcofsky2003) states, quantitative analysis of light emission from hot gases is usually (maybe somewhat erroneously, as claimed in the reference) credited to Kirchhoff and Bunsen. The phenomenon was discovered by Ångström, after whom the unit for wavelength of light is named. Spectrum analysis thus really refers to analysis of emission of light from elements, which is currently known as emission spectroscopy. I would really appreciate if you could merge & redirect spectrum analysis there, since the spectroscopy articles in wikipedia at the moment are a horrible duplicated mess. Anyway, I'll remove the categories shortly, and maybe contribute to the articles as well, if I find time. tpikonen 21:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Notes to myself for later:
 * proposed by TPikonen: Spectrochemical Analysis  merge to emission spectroscopy: similar but chemical component, intended applications and premises of the scientists would need researching Goldenrowley 16:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Les Dames Blanches
I'm not entirely sure if it should be singular or plural. Typically the convention is to do singular wherever possible, see Naming conventions (plurals). The french article (which I linked in, you might want to check it out if you speak french... there's quite a bit of info, but none of it is sourced) also has a singular title. Calliopejen1 02:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * it's at http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_blanche_%28l%C3%A9gende%29, or you can click in the link in the lefthand sidebar of les dames blanches. Calliopejen1 16:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of New technology in indonesia
An editor has nominated New technology in indonesia, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 19:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

autobot
Your recent edit to Bill Hudson (guitarist) (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // MartinBot 01:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks autobot. KNow you aren;t human but it was to merge with a duplicate article. Goldenrowley 18:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Witte Wieven
Great work on Witte Wieven! I have been working on the articles Norns and Dísir and I had no idea of how closely related the Dutch and the Scandinavian beliefs were (although, I should have anticipated it, both being Germanic).--Berig 15:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Berig. I am glad they're coming together. Goldenrowley 03:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Elves
I saw in retrospect that you have done some work on Light elves and Álfar, which I had redirected. I hope you don't mind my making them into redirects. Álfar is simply the Old Norse word for elves so it is already covered more fully in the Norse mythology section of Elf, and "light elves" only appear in Snorri Sturluson's work so there is virtually nothing to expand with unless there is some treatment of it in the fantasy genre. Best,--Berig 21:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I kind of disagree with this one. I put about 2-3 hour of research I put into getting all these references together, not covered on the "main elf" page.  The elf page is very broad I think we need to have an Eddic elf section, especially as "light elf" is the Proto-elf of all elves and parellel to dark elf (so people can toggle back and forth between light elf and dark elf). Goldenrowley 00:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * IIRC, only Snorri Sturluson makes a distinction beteen light elves and dark elves and some have suggested that he was inspired by the Christian distinction between angels and demons. If you think that the article is needed, I will not object, though.--Berig 05:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Berig. I can see your concerns of duplication, and tried to expand. I put a link to "elf" as the "main" article. The elf race splitting between light and dark, and possible angel-ness is quite notable in Snorri mythology. I like the idea of people being able to look up light elf (and get only the things about light elves, not every thing else).Goldenrowley 05:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That is a good reason to keep it in my book.--Berig 11:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Alcis (gods)
Hi Goldenrowley, I see that you continue your good and interesting work on Continental Germanic myths :). I only thought that you might be interested in the Haddingjar who have been connected with the Alcis (gods).--Berig 09:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your kind words. I made an article named Odin's Hunt and then I discovered that there was a similar version of the wild hunt in the Netherlands. Perhaps, it is something that could be used to expand the article.--Berig 10:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. On the new article, were you aware of this existing article Wild Hunt? Goldenrowley 16:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was, but I didn't want to spoil the generic European approach of the article with a large section on Scandinavian folklore. If you think they should be merged, I can do that.--Berig 17:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok I beleive in a separate Skandavian folklore article, just as I beleive in the separate elf articles for each culture, just making sure you knew it was there for you. Thanks I look forward to it. Goldenrowley 19:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * On second thought, the information may be more fit as a subsection of Wild Hunt. I will merge it into the Wild Hunt article.--Berig 20:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Troilus
Thanks for classifying the article and for correcting some of the typos and the other improvements. I've spotted a couple more typos myself. Apart form correcting those, do you have any suggestions on what to do to boost the article up another grade. Regards --Peter cohen 11:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd make the pictures bigger and add at least 1 table or diagram (per what makes an A article). You can compare it to some of the myth A articles,  to see if you covered the main topics of mythology. If and when you feel its finished, submit for a "good article review" to go higher than B. Goldenrowley 18:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Redundant cleanup category
You recently created a new cleanup category and added several articles to it. Unfortunately, this new category seems to be redundant with an existing one (Mathematics instead of Math) that already contains many more articles. Could you instead replace the tags you added with  so as to merge the contents? Then we can delete the new category or redirect it to the old one. JCarlos 20:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. I simply did not notice "Mathematics" under science. I put a copy of Mathematics in the main table of contents. The "Math" is emptied if you want to delete it. Goldenrowley 02:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Good idea, recategorizing it. The organization of those categories is a bit arbitrary at the moment. JCarlos 03:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's okay. When I began to "organize" the scheme this weekend, hopefully have helped just a little. Goldenrowley 23:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thanks for taking a look at those articles I mentioned. I appreciate it. Also, I like your "info box" idea. You'll need to work out the delicate matter of an "official" scholarly definition of "myth", since there seems to be little consensus among scholars on this point. However, I think this info box is exactly the sort of thing we need to help (partially) quell religion-vs-mythology arguments.

By the way, might you be able to get your hands on a book called Sacred Narrative by Alan Dundes? It contains a number of articles that discuss the issue of defining myth. (For instance, see an article called "The Forms of Folklore" by William Bascom.) I remember seeing the book before, but I don't own currently own it, and it isn't available at my local library. If you find it, it might help you with the info box. --Phatius McBluff 06:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. I was able to find the key quotation from Bascom's article online (here): "tales believed as true, usually sacred, set in the distant past or other worlds or parts of the world, and with extra-human, inhuman, or heroic characters". As far as I know, this is the "official" folklorists' definition of "myth". This definition may be slightly too restrictive for our purposes. I suggest defining myth simply as "traditional story" in the info box, citing Princeton's Wordnet entry for "myth" (here), and then mentioning (perhaps in parentheses) Bascom's more restrictive "official" definition. --Phatius McBluff 06:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Info box slogan
Here's what I came up with for the slogan (I also posted it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mythology): That last, perhaps too obviously disclaimer-ish sentence could be removed from the version of the info box that's being put on articles that don't discuss "living" religions; it could be added to the info boxes for articles that discuss "living" religions. For instance, the box for the Mythology article would look like this: Meanwhile, the box for the Christian mythology article would look like this: I think we should add a little logo picture -- maybe a dragon or something? --Phatius McBluff 21:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Corrected a little problem: Reworded this way, I don't think the box needs that last disclaimer about "not labeling these stories as false". --Phatius McBluff 21:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Very helpful, thanks Phatius! We could use the dragon icon. My response is on Mythology Wikiproject for wider readership and consensus. Goldenrowley 17:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Old myth template
Thanks for letting me know about the discussion! I'm sorry I haven't been present on WP lately so soon after I started with the myth project. --Ephilei 00:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes to Religion and mythology
I added some citations for the "opposition to calling religious stories myths" section, which definitely needed citations. I also restructured the article a bit and added some more info. It was a moderately large-scale edit, so I thought you'd want to know. (Also, I added some facts explaining exactly why so many religious practitioners object to the term "myth". You might be interested, considering your "info box" project.) --Phatius McBluff 06:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Aw shucks. The feelings are entirely mutual... its good to have such hard working people on board! Goldenrowley 15:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey
how are things going? I've been busy. If you recall, I've been unable to update Ohlone because of work and the book-selling business. Anyhow, two new books came into my collection via channels. I think you might want to borrow them. Here are the ISBNs: ISBN 0-8070-8529-4 ISBN 0-385-42253-9

meatclerk 06:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Glad to see you're back. For a week or so I'll be pretty busy with real life and planning a trip to Europe. I appreciate your thinking of my interests in North American mythology. Goldenrowley 18:57, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Islamic mythology
I've posted some concerns about the Islamic mythology article on the Mythology Wikiproject's discussion page. I think that you in particular should see them. --Phatius McBluff 23:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Roots music invitation
I thought you might be especially interested in light of the discussion about the Child Ballads and Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight currently going on.

-- TimNelson 11:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invite Tim! I'll take a look but although may have much to offer on the music end, I am more into the mythological themes the song preserved. Goldenrowley 04:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Ohlone
Hey! How's it going? Book sales are leveling off, and I'm getting back to the Wiki. This week I plan to finalize my History of the Name of Redwood City. After that, I'm back to working on Ohlone stuff.

I'm writing to say hi and to let you know I have a personal copy of Names for Plants and Animals Among California and other Western North American Tribes by Clinton Merriam. You are free to borrow it, if you need to, or would like to. I'm cleaning up my collection this week (before the weekend when I have to go back to work.)

I'm not sure where to start. Any suggestion? I'm thinking ohlone salt or one of the villages?

06:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi! Nice to hear you're feeling motivated. I've not heard of Ohlone salt is it notable? The 8 pages on Ohlone subgroups are pretty short particularly Karkin if interested. The main Ohlone article holding steady with Good Article ratings. The other Bay Area people Esselan, Salinan and Yokut suffer less attention and could use a hand. Thanks for offering a book, however, I will be going to Europe this month, so better not borrow any thing right now. Goldenrowley 06:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi! On the Ohlone salt, it is not notable in the sense of world politics, but there are two or three well documented native battles. One is over salt, the other is over the Almaden quick silver. The general convention by the natives was to ask for permission before getting shared or community resources. There are a few stories on acorns, a few on minerals (like obsidan), and a few on salt. These are the things I have been researching, but have not had time to follow up on. In any case, I do note that there is a gap around the Pious Fund. This fund was used as a funding source for the 1769 expedition, Anza's movement of settlers to SF and the general funding of missionaries and soilder to settling California, both baja and alta. meatclerk 21:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi! Sounds notable and involves neighboring cultures. Good luck Goldenrowley 04:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Troilus
Thanks for the congratulations, Goldenrowley. I'm slowly working through the comments by the GA reviewer for further improvement and am also working through a book with coverage of the fragments of the Sophocles play and its background. My hope is to move the article from one of the nineteen best mythology articles to one of the eight best by the end of the year. In other words, get it to A-class.

Did you actually re-assess the article? In that case I would be interested in any ideas for what it lacks that is needed for A. If you haven't reassessed it, then I'll just wait until I've finished my current work and put it up for reassessment at that point. I'm assuming that I should satisfy you on its being an A before going for external peer review and FA.

Thanks, again. --Peter cohen 08:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. I did not re-assess it you can get that name if you check the history of the page's talk page. ^but I'd be happy to read it again^ Goldenrowley 15:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cologne Cathedral
About the window... Amandajm 14:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks interesting, and I'm glad to know it's there, but it's a bad photo. There are lots of pics of Cologne to chose from and that one is so bleached out. it doesn't show what it's supposed to show
 * solution 1. Take the shot again on a very dull day. one problem is its the South window, so it gets a lot of daylight.
 * solution 2. Take it again using flash. It often works on very brightly lit stained glass.
 * solution 3. Digitally drop the tone and enhance the colour. You'll find the pic has actually recorded more info than it appears.
 * Also, that gallery was carefully arranged. Shoving St Kit down, instead of putting your window pic with the other window pics!
 * I've cut your caption to 4 lines, the same as the others. If you can get a decent picture, then you don't need to write that its a coloured collage.
 * If you are not in Cologne any more and you can't come up with a better pic, maybe there is an editor in Cologne who could take one. I'd like a better look at that window.
 * I agree its not the best one, however it is the MOST current news. Maybe it would sit better outside the "gallery" in a current news section. I unfortunately am not in Cologne any more to take a new photo. Goldenrowley 15:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way I may be unaware of the significance but I moved the ST Kit statue down because I thought pictures of the catherdral itself should come before pictures of statues inside it. It wasnt "shoving" it so much as trying to put the cathedral above statues. Goldenrowley 17:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, new stuff ready
Hey, just finishing vacation. Have some new stuff ready.


 * Rancho de las Pulgas
 * Talk:Ohlone/salt will post about 10am

Mythopoeia
The text of this poem on Wikisource has been flagged as a potential copyright violation. It looks like you were the user who contributed it. If you know more about the publication history of this poem, that might help. John Vandenberg 01:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually you could be right about copyright. I first moved the poem that was originally on Wikipedia, to Wikisource, because it was out of place on Wikiedia. Then I began to research its history and learned it was in a published magazine in in 1931. Goldenrowley 05:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Morini
To answer your question: you're right, there should be more references. The problem is that there are very little references, as very little is known about the Morini. The article is a collection of bits and pieces I found in various articles which often are about different but probably related subjects. E.g. the fact that the Morini, like the Bataves build small hills to live upon. Those 'hills' (2 meter) are still found in the region and are the origin of the word 'polder'. But, the information about 'polder' is in my Dutch Etymology Dictionary and I saw those hills on a local television program. The Germanic character of the tribe is solely derived from this one little word in Zosimus's text, and Medieval maps. It's known that after the Roman Empire the region was known as to be Frankish (again: Germanic), but also that this region did not contribute in conquering Gaul under Clovis. In fact, Clovis annexed the region at the end of his life, long after the conquest of Gaul. The tribal region itself is derived from the presence of the specific West-Flemish dialect. I could not find a complete text about the Morini and moreover, there is a lot of confusion about nearly all the Belgian tribes, their location and their language. The reason is politics. French historians will claim a 'Gaulish' character of the region (like they do for most of Belgium). As the Morini are not a 'hot' subject, I added this coloured map where I situated not only the Morini, but also other Belgian tribes. French maps will give you a completely different view. So, it's very difficult to give good references. My website is: proto-english where I again break all the rules. There, I do have the same problem: how to give references when I state something completely opposite to what is widely accepted? I hope that someone will add references, one never know. --Michael042 (talk) 11:02, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking the effort to contribute. I hope you take requests for references in only a positive light that it will strengthen and be a permanent record. You mentioned "The article is a collection of bits and pieces I found in various articles" - those are your references. However you also mentioned confusion about Belgic tribes, if the French argue a Ghaulish character, then it behoves one to mention that as wll in the article in a neutral way and present both opinions. Again please take me comments only as another editor very interested in the region, interested enough to see references. Thanks Goldenrowley (talk) 04:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for correcting the text. --Michael042 (talk) 11:21, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Likewise, thank you for the excellent work recently and reference additions! Goldenrowley (talk) 01:59, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Nuptial act, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add  on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself.

If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Bearian (talk) 19:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't write it so my feelings aren't ruffled. Its too minor a point to have its own article so I had the phrase moved to Wiktionary, then merged it into the article Catholic teachings on sexual morality where it was largely covered, already. Goldenrowley (talk) 02:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Tammukan
Thanks for your edits to Tammukan, California, wow how my stub has grown!W-i-k-i-l-o-v-e-r-1-7 (talk) 07:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * no problem it was interestng topic, thanks for contributing it. Goldenrowley (talk) 02:14, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note:I am not sure we should do an article for each Indian ghost village, research indicates that would be 100s in the bay area alone, in this case it was described as a place in old books, so it could be considered notable enough. Goldenrowley (talk) 02:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Category:Decorative arts
Hi,

I have moved your nomination of Category:Decorative arts from User categories for discussion, whose scope covers only categories for Wikipedia editors, to today's Categories for discussion log page. The nomination can now be found here.

Cheers, Black Falcon (Talk) 03:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Boy I am glad you did, thanks. I was wading into unfamiliar territories. Goldenrowley (talk) 03:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Ohlone GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed Ohlone and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. In reviewing the article, I have found there are multiple issues that need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left this message on your talk page since you have significantly edited the article (based on using this article history tool). Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix with the assistance of multiple editors. I have also left messages on the talk pages for other editors and a few related WikiProjects to spread the workload around some. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 05:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey Goldenrowley, if you need some help on fixing this, please message me. meatclerk (talk) 15:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. I am hesitatent to lengthen the Intro, but it seems there is little choice. As such, how would you like to start? Would you like me to write the first draft, or an outline, or would like to give it a stab first? meatclerk (talk) 00:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As we are both hesitant we might look for a way out of this in the rules, for example if a majority of editors think an intro should be short, why should it be made long... the other idea is to select a main point from each of the sub headings and write a sentence on that sub-point for each.Goldenrowley (talk) 14:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay give me a week to look over it. After that, we should discuss which of the two methods you've outlined we should take. In the meantime, I'll make some notes on the 'Ohlone page. Thanks. meatclerk (talk) 18:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Christian mythology and Comparative mythology
Sorry to drag you into another one of these endless quarrels on the Christian mythology talk page. But I'd like your 2 cents on an issue that I've raised regarding one contributor's recent edits. You seem to be one of the most dedicated contributors to that particular article.

By the way, while I'm here, I should mention that I think Comparative mythology could benefit from a new quality-scale review. (I'm going to leave a message to that effect on the Wikiproject Mythology talk page.) I seem to remember you giving quality ratings to a number of articles. --Phatius McBluff (talk) 03:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Phatius always a pleasure to hear from you a tireless writer. I will look at your comments on the C. myth. talk page. I cannot rate Comparative mythology as I think I am one of the writers so maybe we need to look for someone outside our little circle. But I will read it. Goldenrowley (talk) 14:38, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Beatrice
Thanks for your great edit on Beatrice; the second or third glance convinced me that my focus on distinguishing Dante's two of them had got me "all tangled in my underwear" (as my love likes to put it -- well, never mind that), and you cut what had seemed to me a Gordian knot. I'd also argued myself into treating the Princesses and Stains [heh!] as marginalia adequately dealt with by lks to the respective Dabs, but your expansion of those was something i'd have felt was worthwhile if i hadn't been so thoroly Beatriced up to here. I usually make a point of reasserting that "People" means the same as "Historical persons", but many flowers blooming actually facilitates many eyes. You might be interested if you take a peek at what i'm gonna do with sorting the people, and i'm sure la comtessa di Dia's final state was something you didn't intend, and talk to me if you like about my "tersifying" entries and removing 2nd blue lks, but it's certainly been a pleasure working with you! --Jerzy•t 08:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. My main concern was to bring in the great historical and living people named Beatrice, which the dab page sorely lacked. Goldenrowley (talk) 18:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area roll call
Hello from WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area!

As part of a recent update to our project main page we are conducting a roll call to check which members are still active and interested in working on bay area related content. If you are still interested in participating, simply move your username from the inactive section of the participant list to the active section. I hope you will find the redesigned project pages helpful, and I wanted to welcome you back to the project. If you want you can take a look at the newly redesigned:


 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app Community Help.png|25px|]]Main Page
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app Login Manager.png|25px|]]Talk page
 * [[Image:Broom icon.svg|25px|]]Cleanup listing
 * [[Image:Template icon.svg|25px|]]Template list

As well as the existing pages:
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app clean.png|25px|]]Assessment
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app kedit.png|25px|]]Article Worklist
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app kdict.png|25px|]]Watchlist
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear action editdelete.png|25px|]] Deletion sorting (California)

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page, and add it to your watchlist, if it isn't already.

Again, hi! -Optigan13 (talk) 07:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello Goldenrowley

My name is Brandon I'm a Senior in Illustration at Massachusetts College of Art in Boston, MA, working on my senior thesis degree project. My topic is the Krampus monster, a pagan figure in folklore/ Alpine tradition.I noticed you contributed a large amount of information to the Krampus main page and others, I was wondering if it was possible to interview/ask you some questions about the Krampus, it would help out my project a great deal. feel free to email me back or respond through this thread, thank you for your time.

Brandon Gorski graniterobot@yahoo.com

Research Project
Krampus

Hello Goldenrowley

My name is Brandon I'm a Senior in Illustration at Massachusetts College of Art in Boston, MA, working on my senior thesis degree project. My topic is the Krampus monster, a pagan figure in folklore/ Alpine tradition.I noticed you contributed a large amount of information to the Krampus main page and others, I was wondering if it was possible to interview/ask you some questions about the Krampus, it would help out my project a great deal. feel free to email me back or respond through this thread, thank you for your time.

Brandon Gorski graniterobot@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.43.98.10 (talk) 19:12, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Brandon. Thank you for asking me I feel very honored however I am afraid I only know of Krampus as a name, when working on Perchta. I suggest you use some of the references I listed at the bottom of Perchta as they appear to be from the same region. Goldenrowley (talk) 05:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Image:Chileanplate-small.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Chileanplate-small.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk ) 04:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Resistance distance (mechanics)
Hi...thanks for transwiki'ing this article. I'm unfamiliar with the process, however I see that you added a template to it. Can we instead add a template and leave it at that? That way it can be categorized and linked. Thanks again. Wizard191 (talk) 13:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

That would be fine with me, doing it now. Goldenrowley (talk) 04:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot! Wizard191 (talk) 13:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Mythology
When you get a chance, your comments on some recent edits I made to Mythology would be appreciated. See the talk page. Thanks! --Phatius McBluff (talk) 04:51, 1 February 2009 (UTC) I am sorry having a hard semester at school and not able to read it yet. Goldenrowley (talk) 07:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Skier Days
Wiktionary would be good... --Bubblecuffer (talk) 23:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Per agreement, "Skier Days" has been moved to Wiktionary. Goldenrowley (talk) 20:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Myth box
Template:Myth box has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. ViperSnake151 23:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Transwiki bot
That should be possible; I'll add it to the list of future updates. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 05:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Aww, but it's the same as mine. :-( Ok, I'll log in and make it a bit simpler. As for the date thing, that is odd; I think I've fixed it now, but I'll double check on the bot's next run. Apparently as far as Java is concerned, January is the 0th month and not the 1st. I should have the updates loaded soon - I'm streamlining some of the other code as well to prep it for working on other projects. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 19:11, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I've had to remove the disambiguation stripper you requested; the import API doesn't allow the bot to specify a separate target title (other than changing the namespace), so the bot ends up importing the wrong article, as it did with wikt:Transwiki:Mala.
 * In other news, the bot should be able to do some more cleanup soon - I'm adding a function to have it strip out red links and templates (except citation templates) in the imported article. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 20:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * On the first, awww too bad but I understand. On the second, that's another nice addition, thanks! Goldenrowley (talk) 01:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of The Green Serpent
A tag has been placed on The Green Serpent requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. —  Dæ dαlusContribs 09:19, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not an admin who can restore it. Can you prove how it is notable?—  Dæ dαlusContribs 20:10, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

If I remember correctly it is a French fairy tale of some literary significance, shouldn't have been deleted for the reasons given (it is not a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.). Yes if restored I can add notability (if its not already there). Should I get an admin to help me? Goldenrowley (talk) 00:11, 29 March 2009 (UTC) .... I've just gone to the person who deleted it and asked him or her to restore it. I've also begun to discuss its notability on its still existent talk page. Goldenrowley (talk) 00:20, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Transwiki
The ManualTranswiki template provides the instructions, but I can make that clearer. The list of terms for gay unfortunately needs to be taken care of with a manual copy/paste, though - it's too big and has too many revisions for the bot to handle with import. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 04:21, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi.
Couldn't sleep so fixed some wikipages. On Ohlone, user 206.110.235.13 on 26 February 2009 vandalized in two places, now fixed. BTW, ohlone were in Marin County, but we have no direct references. Also removed a book added to "further reading" as we have it listed in "references".

That said, when the first missionary settlers first settled they fired the customary cannon salute -- scaring all the natives in the area across the bay (east and north). Many other reports of native coming and going to north and east bay, but as I said, there is **NO** historian note, book or direct reference. So again, in the first section "CULTURE", we cannot say for sure that they "lived" there, they may have visited relative, or in-laws (so to speak), but not "lived". Your removal of said added note has my support. Cheers. meatclerk (talk) 10:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Good to see you are still keeping an eye on things. Goldenrowley (talk) 20:49, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I Am a New Contributor to California Indian Ethnography Articles
Dear Goldenrowley:

I am a new contributor, only a few days old. I see that you have been working to improve the "Ohlone" article since September of 2006. Central California Indian ethnography is one of my few fields of expertice. You will notice a bunch of edits and references I just contributed to the "Ohlone" article. I apologize for not doing summary statements for most of my edits. When I started, I did not know I was supposed to do that. Then, even after I learned that I should, and made some summary comments, I continued to forget just now. I will get better.

I hope you agree that I sharpened up the "Language" section. If I goofed up, I know what to expect.

Regards, and thanks for all your work, Middle Fork (talk) 23:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the greetings. I'll look forward to seeing what someone in this field has to say. I've worked on the native California articles out of interest and tribute to these great people. My present work has been on one of their leaders Pomponio if you care to see that article as well. Goldenrowley (talk) 01:00, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

However I Can Help
Hi, Goldenrowley! You are one of the Wikipedia shamans to me. Sorry I squashed some stuff that should have stayed in. I just read Andrew Lih's book "Wikipedia Revolution" and learned that one of the major rules is "be bold". Howeve, that may not be fair to workers in the trenches this many years down the road. So I am quite ready to be beaten into place. BTW, I really like your Ohlone stuff. But I thought that the Bay Miwok stuff felt like an afterthought.

Did I remove any Kroeber or Levy? I thought I removed George Emmanuel and Charles Bohakel. I have known their works since the 1980s. They are not at all scholarly. Its like they took Kroeber 1925 and ran with it, dumping in their own ideas. It frightens me that school kids and teacher would be handed off to their work. I did not think that was what Jimmy Whales had in mind for Wikipedia at the start. I hope you go read their work, and reconsider, if you did put them back in. The classic works on Bay Miwok are Beeler, Bennyhoff, and Callaghan, with stuff about individual local tribes (not villages) from Milliken.

Anyway, I will be hanging around, doing some pruning. In the end, I think you will be gland. Middle Fork (talk) 02:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Admittedly I found it tough to find good sources on the Bay Miwok so it could have seemed like an afterthought or just "slim pickings". Thank you for adding new ideas and having some new sources to them. As quality updated and sources are added, it will make the whole encyclopedia better. Goldenrowley (talk) 03:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Bay Miwok Recommendation
Hi, Goldenrowley.

I want to revisit the Bohakel and Emmanuel references in the Bay Miwok article with you. I just read the "Wikipedia:Reliable Sources" and I quote: "This page in a nutshell: Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." Both Bohakel and Emmanuel were self-published. Both men were eager well-intentioned amateurs who did not live in an intellectual world of peers. Neither had even heard of Madison Beeler, discoverer of Saclan as a Miwok language, or James A Bennyhoff, the dean of published Bay Miwok ethnogeography, when they wrote (or of the Bay Miwok language for that matter, as they thought Saclan was a Costanoan language, per Kroeber 1926). Neither reference supports any point made in the article, as far as I can see; I think they are "legacy" citations from some article writer that preceded you. I hope that you will remove the two references. Middle Fork (talk) 19:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If what you're saying is true that's fine go ahead to remove them. There is only 1 sentence attributed to them by citation to question: "... forms of the Kuksu Cult were shared with other indigenous ethnic groups of Central California, such as their neighbors the northern Ohlone, Maidu, Patwin, Pomo, and Wappo.[3]" This citation can be changed to Kroeber who said about the same thing (or one of your sources). As an aside Kuksu was misidentified as a "cult" by Kroeber and I am trying to work around his labels. Perhaps in the ethnography field, cult has no negative connotations so my concern may be misplaced? If you have resources discussing religions prior to the development of Kuksu that would be a great contribution. Goldenrowley (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Need Help with Understanding References Mark Up
Hi, Goldenrowley. I struck Bohakel and Emmanuel, per your agreement. Now I have a question. As I cruise around in various articles, I see that many Notes will have an "a,b,...n" after a given note number (for instance, in notes in the Mount Diablo article). Yet I see no indication of a series of subnotes, either in the note or in the reference point in the body of the article. Can you point me to a Wiki Help page that will explain the "a,b,...n" to me? Middle Fork (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think they are automatically generated each time you use the same citation. Citation styling is like so then anything after the first time you do that is marked Codename is something you make up. I hope that helps, open one of my recent article ^contributions (Indian termination policy)^ I was doing this recently look at my code. Goldenrowley (talk) 23:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I will do that. Also, by looking at this text in edit mode, I think I have learned that the "nowiki" trick is available for showing markup language without activating it.Middle Fork (talk) 13:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Introduction to Ohlone Article
Hi Goldenrowley. I just made some structural changes and important etymological explanation changes in your introduction to Ohlone article. I defend the changes over at the Ohlone discussion page.Middle Fork (talk) 16:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am so glad someone decided to help with the intro, it was one thing I felt stuck or brain dead on (as someone requested us to expand on the talk page before and I could not thing of anything). Thanks ! Goldenrowley (talk) 21:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I responded at the GAR. Please take a look at the my comments. Once they are fixed, I'll support it being relisted. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Please Return the Goerke citation to the Chief Marin blurb in Coast Miwok
Hi, Goldenrowley. I note that you removed the Goerke reference that I added to the Chief Marin blurb. I also note that you retained the far less scholarly "Teather" citations. The Goerke book is very important, and should be seen by people who may not choose to click over to a separate Chief Marin Wikipedia article. Please return the Goerke reference to the page.Middle Fork (talk) 18:22, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am running out the door right now for an appointment... but wondered if you notice the reason I removed it was because it is now on the new Chief Marin biography page in its entirety? It seemed a little tentatively worded to be a main point? Anyway after you check out the Chief Marin page do what you feel best. I look forward to hearing what is actually in Goerke. I'll be fine either way. Goldenrowley (talk) 18:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Goldenrowley. You will see that I changed Marin to something different than either of the last two. I'm fine if you rechange it, I only care that the Goerke signpost remains. Speaking of change, I note that a GAR reviewer really likes the way you put citations at the end of paragraphs in the Ohlone article. I know I put them immediately after the sentence in question, and did not change mine after you told me your rule. I actually prefer a third system, due to familiarity. Its the anthropological literature tradition, where the text citations are like (Bennyhoff 1977:44), with no need to click to a note to get a sense of the source. In that tradition we reserve notes for some discussion point that might be pretty esoteric. Would you like me to go back systematically through my Ohlone, Bay Miwok, and Coast Miwok additions and move my embedded notes markers to the ends of paragraphs?Middle Fork (talk) 02:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note also that I wrote an alternative idea in response to yours over at the Eastern Miwok Narrative... discussion.Middle Fork (talk) 02:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OH BOY, what a weekend... just getting back! I hope you had a nice weekend. I think we should stick with the Ohlone style for now on that article only, there's been a consensus already on it but don't think we should change other articles to be similar. Ohlone was unusually long and the footnotes went on and on, before we did that. It's the one reason we condensed, and other articles don't seem to need condensing. Goldenrowley (talk) 04:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Transwiki 2
Reply to: ''Transwiki's new import bot hasn't been importing anything since April. Is it ok? hopefully so. I just finished 2005 and had to tell someone... :-) Goldenrowley (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)''


 * The bot's just fine, as far as I know... I haven't run it recently because I haven't been around for the past month. I'll try to run it later today or later this week; don't worry, you'll have plenty more to do soon! Hers fold  (t/a/c) 16:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha ha ha! Ok thank you. I just worried too much. Take care Goldenrowley (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Modifying Notable Ohlones Page
Hi, Goldenrowley. I read Cirt's criticism of the "Notable Ohlone's" list and I agree with you that there is no reason to move it onto its own page, when it is a logical subsection of the Ohlone article. However, I want to change its membership, and explain why first. I feel it was built by someone, you perhaps, who had just read Alan Brown's 1973 La Peninsula article; this makes it too heavily loaded with Mission Dolores people, when in fact there were "first converts" and relatively famous people in every mission group. I think we should keep the "Ohlone Notables" list to no more that 12, and make them the 12 most interesting people for illustrating large themes, firsts, lasts, and ethnographic consultants. I am going to move Chamis, Mossues, and Andres Osorio to a Notable Ramaytush page (and repeat others as pertinent). Then I am going to add Lorenzo Asisara of Santa Cruz and Baltazar of Carmel to the main page. I strongly believe Pomponio, a known Coast Miwok, does not belong on this list, but I know he is dear to your heart, so I will not touch it. I petition you to remove him yourself. PS. I peaking behind the "green curtain" of Wikipedia mysticism and found that you are a top editor, number 1,441 on the list (over 19,000 edits). Wow! Congratulations and thanks for your dedication.Middle Fork (talk) 15:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You are so diplomatic, I am really grateful. Most of my edits come from being a stub sorter, which does not take so much work, so it's not that impressive. :-) My opinion is a little different from yours I beleive in having all notable Ohlones on the list, with less summarization if needed on each. On many other pages notable people get a link and nothing else. By notable, notable enough to make it into print. Who are we to judge the most superb out of notables? Next topic, Pomponio is an interesting man, but I care about truth more. I personally don't have evidence to support his background. I found claims from three different nations. I suspect the answer is in his baptism record. If a record proves his birthright, he can be moved from Notable Ohlone section should go into "see also" section so those who think he's Ohlone can at least find him. Goldenrowley (talk) 17:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Pomponio. He was Mission San Francisco Baptism 2546 (January 2, 1803), at age 5. His father was a Huimen Coast Miwok (Richardson Bay) and his mother was a Guaulen Coast Miwok (Bolinas Bay). Alan K. Brown, a great man and scholar, first found these entries and published a great accurate story about Pomponio in a obscure magazine called The Argonaut which I put in the Wikipedia citations someplace. Brown combines accuracy with beautiful writing, so I hope you can find that article. Later, I independently reached the same conclusion about Pomponio's identity. Finally, Betty Goerke has the same identity, and a few more pages about Pomponio, in her new Chief Marin book (encourage your local library to purchase that book).Middle Fork (talk) 22:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Goerke and Chief Marin
At Your Service, Goldenrowley! I added and tinkered with Chief Marin. Now you can tidy it up. By the way, you write: "Of course I know you are busy with much larger issues." That's what I think when I see you working on the local Indian stuff, that a man with 19,000 edits is probably also keeping the "Iliad" page clean and fighting vandals off of the "Obama" page :-). Sadly, its too bad few people care if we get any of this stuff right.Middle Fork (talk) 21:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha ha ha ha... I think I touched Obama only once! Goldenrowley (talk) 19:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Snark always brings Trouble
Sorry I offered up that "space ships" line. Everyone in this Wikipedia world has their favorite topics and their own ideas about what is "obvious" and we seem to have touched a sensitive place about 'written language" in Geometryguy. By the way, the 1996 Handbook of the Indians of North America volume on Language (1986) does have quite a section on a number of special alphabets that various groups have developed (not just Cherokee) since European contact, usually having to do with translating the Bible.Middle Fork (talk) 21:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It is hard to convey the obvious (i.e. we think there were no spaceships at that time, but a UFO conspiricist may disagree). Goldenrowley (talk) 21:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

HaHaHaHa. You are correct, sir.Middle Fork (talk) 23:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Motto of the Day
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FYI
There's a discussion on my talk page you may be interested in: User talk:Hersfold Hers fold  (t/a/c) 20:12, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, so considered. Goldenrowley (talk) 04:32, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Removal of PROD from -eşti
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Articles for deletion nomination of List of giant animals in fiction
I have nominated List of giant animals in fiction, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/List of giant animals in fiction. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 17:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Transwiki bot
I need to make some updates to the bot and haven't had a chance to work on it yet this year. New messages aren't a huge problem, just a slight inconvenience when trying to run the bot. The issue you pointed out on the talk page is one thing I need to look into, though. Sorry for the delay; once it runs again you'll have more words than you'll know what to do with, we're getting a bit backlogged. :-/ Hers fold  (t/a/c) 17:16, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Super 301
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Old stub mark
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Once upon a time you stub-marked Parcae. Is your opinion that the stub mark still is valid, or could it be removed? JoergenB (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Re-visit stub designation for Navajo Mythology
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Islais Creek
Hi, I wonder if you could take a look at the "Indian villages in the vicinity..." statement at the Islais Creek article. I am recalling that it was your work that pinned down the location of the five Yelamu villages, two on Mission Creek, two in Visitacion valley, and one near the Golden Gate. Is there evidence of an Indian village near Islais Creek? SaltyBoatr get wet 14:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for thinking of me. The sources I know of for Yelamu villages are in the article List_of_Ohlone_villages and Yelamu. Other than what's in those sources, that there are five villages in the SF area, I can't say. I'd suspect lots of small habitations and camps (that is, do the sources for Islais Creek have evidence of 'habitations', if not 'villages'). Goldenrowley (talk) 16:24, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I will try to turn my attention to fixing this sometime soon, but I have the distinct impression that the "villages" in the vicinity of Islais Creek are actually a reference to a shell midden CA-SFr-15 near there. When I count up the five villages, one near the Golden Gate, two on Mission Creek, and two in Visitation Valley; I don't think there is documentation of a sixth village on the Islais Creek.  (At least in a near-prehistoric Yelamu time frame.)  SaltyBoatr get wet 20:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

MOTDs (This space for rent)
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 * I wish you wouldn't have elected these icons. These are very useful stub symbols. Goldenrowley (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with Latvian mythology
Hi Goldenrowley,

A few other editors and I are involved in a discussion at Talk:Latvian mythology about whether Latvian mythology (and, by extension, other Baltic mythology articles like Lithuanian mythology) are deserving of their own articles or whether they should be merged into Baltic mythology, which should be written to explain the similarities and differences between them?

You seem to be involved with WP:Wikiproject Mythology and your knowledge of writing mythology articles could be a great help in our discussion.

Kind regards, Matt (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * In this case I do not know enough to vote, but I'd think everyone would want to keep them both and to compare/contrast the similarities and differences. Goldenrowley (talk) 19:12, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, Goldenrowley. We're not looking to vote on anything. We're just discussing ways to improve the article and I figured that you might have insight you could share because you have expressed interest in mythology. Do you have an opinion on how mythology articles should be organised on Wikipedia? Should we have one article covering all of Baltic mythology with sections describing the differences between Baltic mythologies like Latvian and Lithuanian mythology? Or do you believe that they might be distinct enough to warrant having individual articles? I don't know anything about Latvia or mythology. :) Your interest in mythology might give you some insight to how Wikipedia's mythology articles should be presented. Kind regards, Matt (talk) 02:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

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Move request on Thomas Keightley (historian)
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 * continued in her studies and later studied Pomo basketry with Pomo master weaver Elsie Allen (1899–1990) at Ukiah and several others. Julia belongs to the Miwok Pomo and Federated Indians of
 * * Julia F. Parker b.

Speedy deletion nomination of Siats


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Native American mythology
I'm curious why you focus on creating and working on pages about Native tribal nations in the U.S., using non-Natives as sources to cast Native religious beliefs as mythological? I checked Wikipedia's entry for the Bible, and the word myth is not referenced once. I am a journalist, and I check and then present all sides of an issue to the reader. I contributed to an American Indian encyclopedia, and this type entry would be unsuitable. For the sake of accuracy kindly include statements from tribal leadership as to whether their tribal members believe their religious beliefs are myths. Present both sides of the issue. I await your reply. Thank you. Hochungra (talk) 16:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC)


 * It has been a while since I have written or edit anything so currently not writing... you have a good idea to include statements from tribal leadership. The hard part would be finding those persons and quotes and published sources (since we can only use published sources to support Wiki... do you think a oral statement handed down 200 years but then published in a book written by a non-Native is a bad source? Because it is not a native who published the book?
 * The words mythology and myth in my case are respectful, just as used for "classic mythology" about Zuess etc... a myth does not take away from the fact there could be a religion associated from it. Make sense to you? Goldenrowley (talk) 19:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Europe 10,000 Challenge invite
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Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/The 50,000 Challenge
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Proposed deletion of White woman
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 * 1) [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&action=edit edit the page]
 * 2) remove the text that looks like this:
 * 3) save the page

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You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions.

T P  ✎ ✓ 15:18, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Wakanda


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Nomination of List of giant animals in fiction for deletion
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September 2018
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from PathSolutions. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. ''Nothing has been done yet to further establish the notability of the company. The addition of a list of attendees at a convention from a press release and a release from a podcast that regularly hosts the CEO doesn't add any more support for a finding of notability.'' Largoplazo (talk) 18:24, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
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Proposed deletion of File:PERU01-small.jpg


The file File:PERU01-small.jpg has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:00, 26 May 2019 (UTC)