User talk:Golem88991/Archive3

City College Ring
for use on BCC related articles

What Vandalism?
What the hell are you talking about? Don't you ever come to me accusing me of vandalism, with NO PROOF. There is no way that the FACTUAL INFORMATION about the LENGTHY DISCUSSION we had on BCC's TALK PAGE can in any way, shape or form be classified as vandalism. You only chimed in once, without any input before hand, and now your coming to me as if your some kind of administrator. It's obvious there are a lot of editors think that Barringer is the third oldest, I was clarifying, and there really wasn't a place for it since you and the other editors kept taking it of the initial paragraph. This is what I'm going to do, I'm going to revert the edit, and put it in it's very own section, just like I did Barringer, and if you, or an other editor decide to keep reverting my edits, I'll see to it that you get your accounts banned and editing privileges stripped.-- Thx2005 19:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Review and comment requested
Could you review the following exchange between contributors to the City College article and help us resolve a dispute? Please post any comment on the BCC talk page, thanks.67knight 11:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Adam, I removed the Barringer High School information as well. It seems more suited for the talk section rather than in an article about the school. As you mentioned, there is a debate going on about the status of which school is third oldest in the country. A debate, as you well know, is talk; but not a part of the school's history.67knight 23:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The stuff I put on the BCC page was pure fact and nothing more, and it is notable enough to be included in the article, and there's no reason why it shouldn't. Quit reverting my edits, unless you plan to bring an administrator into it.Thx2005 00:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The "stuff" as you refer to it has nothing to do with the history of Baltimore City College. It may be pure fact but it is irrelevant to the school's history. When you debated in high school, did your debates add anything to the history of the subject about which you were debating? We are simply saying the same thing. Debate about an article belongs on the article's talk page. I will ask the particpants of the WikiProject Baltimore City College for their opinions and have them posted over the next few days, please join the debate if you have any concrete reasons why the Barringer info should be retained.67knight 11:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR BCC
I don't give two squirts of duck shit if you're offended by my frustration. I grew up around people that went to City, and all their ever worried about is upping their school all the damn time. I'm "offended" that you and the other BCC assholes expect me to believe that including that one part about Barringer (which Poly and other schools continually talk about) would hurt the schools reputation and that it's in "discussion". I'm disgusted with the whole thing, and I've stopped editing the fucking article, because all of my improvements are either being reverted, or remanded.

It doesn't take a genius to see what the fuck you and the other editors are doing. I'll bet money the only time you ever even glanced at another high school in the BCPSS (which all have pages thanks to me by the way) was when I was editing the Digital Harbor article, because your name is on the change log. None of them (or you) give a shit (like in real life) about any other school either (you see there's no "BCPSS WikiProject).

Besides that it's not "one instance". City's stink is all over Wikipedia. Check it out, if ANY OF THEM put half as much effort into finding some background information about a school like Forest Park (for example) as they do into finding the fucking foundation year of a school in New Jersey, we'd be better represented here on Wikipedia, but NO, they only care about themselves. Like I said, (once more time in case you didn't understand me)...


 * I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE BCC, OR ITS PROJECT. IT YOU WANT TO MAKE IT A PAMPHLET, GO AHEAD, BUT I WON'T BE APART OF IT.

Thx2005 05:13, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration
Okay!67knight 04:07, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Or not
FYI, I left this note on User:Bcc07's talk page:
 * ''Info Box Change
 * I recently noticed you changed the info box template, on the City College page, to a University template. If there was a practical reason for doing so please let us know.  Generally a major change like that should be discussed within the project first.  The new info box is no longer consistent with those of the other Baltimore City public schools, some information did not make it through to the transfer and IMO the page looks bland.''  Discuss.67knight 21:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Barn*tar
lol, I already gave you a barnstar, its on your user page.Marylandstater 21:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * oh yeah, that section on Gender integration could use some help. It seems to me it came after 3 million dollars was spent renovating the school and during the renovation, City's classes were held at P--y on North Ave.Marylandstater 21:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Baltimore City College
Okay, I will work on the sports section and get new sources for it. What is the time frame?Marylandstater 12:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to have the article ready to be nominated by the end of next week. Golem88991 14:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You are a mean one Mr. Grinch. Marylandstater 15:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I can not believe you never saw the movie: How the Grinch Stole Christmas! He prevented a major holiday by stealing presents from the children and there was a line in the movie (or book) "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch" anyway, I was kidding about the extra work you are forcing upon us poor souls who are slaving away on the City College brochure(as THX2005 calls it.)Marylandstater 17:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Castle_on_the_Hill.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Castle_on_the_Hill.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Abu badali (talk) 18:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

History of Baltimore City College
Hi Golem88991. You are off to such a great start on the article History of Baltimore City College that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. The Main Page gets about 4,000,000 hits per day and appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Also, don't forget to keep checking back at Did you know suggestions for comments regarding your nomination. Again, great job on the article. --  Jreferee  (Talk) 21:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Shutup
Stop dictating what looks good in that article. You and the other BCC editor are really making that article look disorganized. I've made a lot of articles for schools, and trust me, they're not supposed to look like that.

I din't know who died and made you and three other editors the kings of the BCC article, but you need to cut it out because it's definitely not fair to keep reverting people's edits. And if you keep doing it to me, I'll pull an admin on you to make you stop violating the Three revert rule. The changes I made would make sense on any other school page, but you haven't even taken any examples from other schools pages, you're stuck in your own little "City College" box.

Who cares...bottom line, stop reverting my edits.Thx2005 14:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Congrats
I saw it there for the time it was up. Good job!!Marylandstater 03:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Alumni for women?
You recently changed the titled of the graduates of Western high school to alumni. Western, being an all girls school, has no alumni. I have added the latin for your convienence: 'An alumnus (pl. alumni) according to the American Heritage Dictionary is "a male graduate or former student of a school, college, or university." [1] In addition, an alumna (pl. alumnae) is "a woman graduate or former student of a school, college, or university." I took a look at the naming conventions as suggested in your summary and could find no reference to alumni v. alumnae. Every all girls school I could find refers to their past graduates as alumnae. (see: Wellesley College, Nightingale-Bamford School, Springside School, Spence School, Canberra Girls' Grammar School, Miss Hall's School, The Ellis School, Brearley School, Sydenham High School (UK), Emma Willard School, Albany Academy for Girls,  Ursuline School )  Please explain why you think the male plural should apply to female graduates?Marylandstater 14:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I did not change it from alumnae to alumni. I agree with you that alumnae is the right term for females.  The edit I made to the page was making alumnae lower case instead of upper case as per Manual of Style (headings), which states in part "Capitalize the first letter of the first word and any proper nouns in headings, but leave the rest lower case." Golem88991 14:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * sorry for the confusion, I apologize.Marylandstater 14:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Jacob Beser
I noticed that you placed an assessment template on the City project page and that most of the City-related articles are unassessed. However I found that the Jacob Besser article does have a start-class assessment. Is there a way to place it in a different category or did a bot do the search?67knight 16:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure who did the assessment of Jacob Beser, but as a participant of WikiProject Baltimore City College, you are welcome to assess or reassess the article. To add an assessment simple insert the assessment into the WikiProject template, e.g. . Golem88991 17:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I changed the status of a couple of the unassessed articles, moving them up to stub or to start class but the numbers don't change on the project page. Its a template that cannot be edited to I figured the numbers would automatically change when pages were moved or added. Comment?Marylandstater 18:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You are a  genius really on top of things.Marylandstater 18:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

BCC History Page
Good work leading this--Bcc07 15:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

FAC Nom
If you are going to nominate the History of Baltimore City College then you need to complete the process as outlined on the WP:FAC page. Golem88991 17:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. I guess I figured why not go ahead with it + perhaps it will be a springboard for some additional criticism and improvements to the page --Bcc07 18:15, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I already took care of it check the page if you dont believe me--Bcc07 18:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

No Problem Mr. Grinch lol j/k--Bcc07 18:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Well that was my intention and I guess we will see how effective this step is in a very short time but check out History of Michigan State University it is the only history of an institution designated as a featured article and its pretty good --Bcc07 18:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

btw Baltimore City College is a national historic landmark the list that you checked out on nps website has not been updated since early 2004 before city recieved its designation.

Ur right my bad--Bcc07 16:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Possible improvements to Alumni page
I am working on creating a table-type-list for the alumni page. The advantage is that it would be sortable. A researcher could take a look with all entries sort it alphabetically, or by Category or by year of graduation. I have done about a fifth of the names, but before I continued i wanted to get your input on whether you like it, what headings you might change etc. anyway here it is:

Each emtry can be shaded but so far I have only shaded the two polticians using a political-shading-template of blue for democrats and pink for republicans. Also, when you click on the knobs you can see how the table sorts it self. Of course, I will have to get the years of graduation for most of the folks, I already knew of schmoke and anderson cause they were in my class. Also it gives more flexibility when entering a new find because you dont have to stick to the rigid categories like putting a record label owner in the television section; and it isnt hard to edit, just copy the last name once you have gone to the edit page and replace the appropriate information from the newly found notable. Hit me on my talk page with comments. 67knight 06:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I will continue using my talk page as the sandbox. It should take two or three days, you can monitor my progress there.  When I am finished, I will notify the group and request it be substituted for the current alumni list.67knight 14:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Editing Alumni Page
I have finished the sortable table and placed it on the alumni page. When you edit you can use the following (click edit page first to view):

I think it looks good and editing should be a snap. I will continue to get years of graduation to fill in those blanks. If you know any of them already just fill them in. 67knight 22:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Alumni page suggestions
When I first suggested the idea, I asked for input. I still welcome the input as it was just my idea to make the table. I only put the shading in to break it up a bit so that it was easier to read and I found the political shading on the List of Current members of the Maryland House of Delegates. Again, if its too bizzare I do not object to it being removed. I do want to work on getting the citations right and the other years of graduation so we can submit it as a featured list. This is a collaboration and none of us can do it without the others, your suggestions are always welcomed. 67knight 22:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Just thought about this. Should we add a seperate column for any thing else?  Like date of death or something.  and do you think we can get enough images to fill the space to the right. 67knight 22:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If you take a look at the talk page and the history page of Current members of the Maryland House of Delegates you will see that three editors basically got the article over the hump in about a month. It looks like they also got suggestions on how to improve it from the featured list people and one of them even pitched in to alphabetize the table by last names. I am not saying we need to kill ourselves (I don't want to be a grinch) but with some steady editing over the next couple of weeks I think we could at least nominate it. 67knight 23:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The names should be in alphabetical order; and should be the first item/category on the list. I have no problem doing it just want to know what you folks think. The current table is a bit confusing especially to those with no connection to school, and therefore no idea what catagory the notables are in b/c they have no idea who graduated from the school. So my suggestion is:

Alumnae(us)[in alphabetical order], Category, Notability, Year of Graduation.

Also I think the color scheme is a bit confusing, as it is designated for republicans and democrats but to rehash Golem88991's point the page is by nature "not political". Perhaps we could designate colors for the categories (i.e. red for the arts, blue for politics and so on.) Or we could go with no colors at all but the fact that some are with and others without colors makes it confusing. But overall I am impressed with the efforts to improve this page we should be a featured list in no time. Please let me know what you think and whether you approve the suggestions--Bcc07 19:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

67knight's response

 * Okay, let's loose the shading, it wasn't that important, I just liked it on the other list I saw (See featured list: Current members of the Maryland House of Delegates) and thought it would be good for us.
 * With regard to the order, the purpose of a sortable list is to have any order the viewer wants. Click the tab next to alumni and the list is ordered A to Z, click it again and the list is Z to A. Click on year and you get the first notable graduate(assuming we get all the years in) and click on year again you get the last notable graduate in terms of when he graduated.  The order that the list defaults to is simply the order I edited.  If you want to change that order, it should be a simple cut and paste (rearranging all the whole entries), but to change the order of the categories, it would take a monumental effort because you would have to change the category in every entry as well.  I do not object to any of this.  I will continue getting dates of graduation and conforming the cites to wiki conventions.  I am just happy you like the idea.   If you do change the categories, let us know so we don't edit the page while you are working on them, those edit conflicts can be a b*tch.  Also you may want to make the changes you suggest on your talk page and transfer the whole thing when you are finished.  Your changes could take two weeks or more based on how long it took me to create the table.67knight 19:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I have just read your comments but I disagree. Several sortable tables would defeat the purpose of having a homogeneous list of all the alumni. With a click, you can browse it by category, with another click you can see which notables graudated earliest or latest, or what class years had the most notables. With a final click they all are sorted in alphabetical order. I have really listened and thought through your concerns and I am still not convicned the page is that far from being great. why don't we wait until 95% of the years are in before making any changes. 67knight 20:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

War Plaque Image
No Problem it looks fine I'm also working on adding a box list of the principals i'm going to place it under recent history but feel free to move it where u think its best on suited--Bcc07 19:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Awesome check it out give me feedback its the Michigan State Format which we can edit more also you may want to fix the tower image next to it--Bcc07 19:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

No b/c I still believe that it should remain on the main page as well. How do you feel about that? is it neccessary both places?--Bcc07 19:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Extracurricular Activities
No problem do u mind doing a little editing of it. --Bcc07 14:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Marching Band picture
You recently reduced the size of the picture that I placed in the band article. Before I ever created an account I read about editing and working with others in the various wikipedia articles. It seems that editors try to work to get a consensus when working on a particular task. I do not think your unilateral action of downsizing a picture another person has put on a page is very polite. You could have first asked me or discussed why I made it the size I did. You also cite the manual of style which if read in a cursory manner might support your downsizing. I believe that the picture supports the section it is in and should be larger because it is a picture of more than 100 people. In fact the size I selected takes up roughly the same size as the 180px default because the caption runs on one line instead of two. Furthermore the MOS is not mandatory: "Specifying the size of a thumb image is not recommended: without specifying a size the width will be what readers have specified in their user preferences, with a default of 180px (which applies for most readers). However, the image subject or image properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article" . A person with average vision cannot read any of the writing in the picture at its currently reduced size. Please return it to the size that is more appropriate. Knightgal 17:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There are many other people with information about City, but if you treat them the way you did me I am sure they would not want to contribute to your article

specific image width to enhance the readability
In your last message you conviently left out the rest of the manual of style exceptions, specifically: "However, the image subject or image properties may call for a specific image width to enhance the readability or layout of an article". At least one high school and several major university bands have taken advantage of the exception carved out in the manual of style. The following have pictures well in excess of 180px and no MOS objections have been raised there: Stanford University Marching Band (300px), The Ohio State University Marching Band (250px), Coral Springs High School (350px), Pride of Dixie Marching Band (500px), Purdue All-American Marching Band (250px), Cornell Big Red Marching Band (260px), Dartmouth College Marching Band(400px), Kansas State University Marching Band (400px) and the UCLA Band (300px). Since there are clear exceptions to the authority you cited, I am going to change the picture back to 280px. The way it is now, the words on the banner are not readable, the faces aren't seeable. A larger picture clearly enhances the section. Knightgal 02:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit of this section
I made a prelim copyedit of this section, but it's on my user talk page. I didn't want to commit any changes before getting specific names for more of the clubs, as well as some feedback. Please have a look and let me know what you think. --WriterThesp77 20:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Pending list
Okay, I will put him back, but I think he graduated from Southern high school.

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