User talk:Gonzonoir/Archive 5

re: BLP sourcing
Thank you for the kind note. I admit that I'm doing the bare minimum sourcing in most cases (just one or two references that support notability), but there are so many unreferenced footballer articles that I feel I have no other choice. The next step in this process will need to be adding more sources to the lightly sourced articles, but that will have to wait for another day.

I see that you have also done a great amount of work on sourcing. Well done and best regards. Jogurney (talk) 16:54, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Angelo Vaccarezza
Hi Gonzonoir, I'm actually having some trouble with the Italian version of wikipedia and I didn't want to modify your page. On the contrary you have been really accurate and quick, I was expected to translate shortly but you impressed me... you've been faster and I thank you for the good job you did.

Actually I didn't published Angelo Vaccarezza's page, because I'm trying to align his page with the previous President Marco Bertolotto. The problem is that he has been dismissed and replaced by Mario Scanu an interim president without Wikipedia's article. In particular I mean the fields "Predecessore - Presidente della Provincia di Savona - Successore" to get a flow into the presidents of Savona's Province.

For this reason I was unable to create a link between Marco Bertolotto and Angelo Vaccarezza, I think I'll modify both as soon as I'll fond some free time.

Anyway I'd be very glad if you'll translate both Angelo Vaccarezza and Marco Bertolotto, because you translation was perfect.

I know Angelo Vaccarezza personally and I'm sure I can thank you on his behalf.

Just one thing I'd like to know: where are you from, where do you live?

Regards, Luca —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucamasio (talk • contribs) 11:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Luca - glad I could help. I've created a translation of Marco Bertolotto to help with English Wikipedia's coverage in this area.
 * I see that in Italian Wikipedia you have added a succession box showing the links between Bertolotto, Spanu, and Vacarezza - we could add a succession box to the articles here in English Wikipedia too.
 * To answer your question - I'm British and I live in eastern England. Gonzonoir (talk) 14:15, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Agaravarisai page
Hi I noticed you proposed this article for deletion. I've removed your template because I requested speedy deletion for this page a few hours ago and the page author promptly removed the speedy delete template. I've replaced your deletion template with the speedy delete one I put up earlier. MrRandomPerson (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough - I don't want to edit war over it, especially since a Google search has convinced me that the subject is not notable and the article has no long-term WP future, but I'm not convinced by the CSD rationale: I think the text identifies the subject as a specific movie by a named director on a particular subject. I will leave it up to you whether you are happy with the tagging (an admin deleted a previous, shorter version of the article per the same rationale earlier, even though I had prodded it, so I guess consensus is not with me here). Gonzonoir (talk) 16:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Final discussion for Requests for comment/Biographies of living people
Hello, I note that you have commented on the first phase of Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

As this RFC closes, there are two proposals being considered:
 * 1) Proposal to Close This RfC
 * 2) Alternate proposal to close this RFC: we don't need a whole new layer of bureaucracy

Your opinion on this is welcome. Okip  02:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Brad Pitt
Hey Gonzonoir, how you been? Oh, Happy late New Year, I know, I'm so late. Listen, if your offer still stands, is there a way you can copy-edit Brad Pitt's article? IDK if you remember, but, the user who I ended up asking to do it, recently finished. I was going to notify you after he was done, but you were on break. Now that you're back, I hope you are, can you do it? I mean, there's no rush, really. Whenever you can get to it it's what matters, you know. I would appreciate it a lot, after the great job you did on Ethan Hawke's article. If you can't do it, no hard feelings. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  17:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi ThinkBlue - I'd be very happy to do the copy edit. I'll get on it tonight. Gonzonoir (talk) 14:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Gonzonoir, I really appreciate it. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  15:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much, I appreciate it, and everyone else. I'll take care of your concerns that you left in the talkpage soon. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  21:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! It was an interesting article. I ended up respecting the guy more than I did before :) Gonzonoir (talk) 22:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Plexio2 response
I created this article (Plexio2 (talk) 10:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)).
 * OK, assuming you are responding to my question here and you mean "I am removing sections from Drago Boskovic because I created that article", then:

I am going to create a sockpuppet investigation report about the use of this account to evade a block. When you get unblocked as User:Daznam, please read our editing policies thoroughly so you can make positive edits to Wikipedia that won't get reverted, and please don't create any more socks - it will just result in escalating blocks, which doesn't do anyone much good. Gonzonoir (talk) 10:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying, but you are saying you are blocked User:Daznam (who created the article), which means that you are using a sockpuppet account abusively (to evade a block);
 * You should read WP:OWN, which sets out that no user - even the one who contributed it - owns an article, and all edits need to comply with Wikipedia policies;
 * A user who created an article can request deletion by blanking the page, so long as there have been no significant contributions to the article by other editors. But all the sockpuppeteering has made this so confused I think we're beyond that stage.

Indopedia
I got a response last night from oversight, suggesting that there's not really very much that they can do. I'll forward it to you in a moment, but I'll also contact them again to ask what they recommend in light of the fact that there's been no response. Bearcat (talk) 17:45, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

"A Rugrats Passover"
Hey, Gonzonoir! Long time, no see, eh? Anyways, I'm planning on bringing the above article to PR then to FAC, but before that it needs a copyedit. Mind performing it? Cheers!  The Flash  I am Jack's   complete   lack of surprise 17:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Flash - I'd be glad to. I'm probably not able to get to it til Wednesday night UTC, though - is that OK? Gonzonoir (talk) 09:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Definitely!  The Flash  I am Jack's   complete   lack of surprise 01:47, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A day late and 73 euro cents short, but it's done :) Gonzonoir (talk) 16:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * lol, Thanks! :)  The Flash  I am Jack's   complete   lack of surprise 17:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

re: Putting_yourself_in_the_picture_-_the_common_sense_money_guide_to_effective_budget_planning
hi i have checked the links and article writer info and the taged copyright is the the orginal and the person that wrote the article is my brother but im new to this and dont know how to get the ok for it, do you think you could help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Russell daems (talk • contribs) 15:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Russell daems. We have a page explaining how copyright holders can donate to Wikipedia, and what donating that material means (what rights you give away, and what others can now do with the information). However, I believe that the page you created is also eligible for deletion on the grounds that it does not satisfy Wikipedia's inclusion criteria: it is an essay that attempts to give advice, while Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. I have therefore also added a proposed deletion template to the article. Please have a look at our guide What Wikipedia is not, and our alternative outlets list for suggestions on other sites that could host your article.
 * Does this answer your question? Gonzonoir (talk) 15:42, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

BLP sticky PROD
Hi !. Every attempt to rescue a Wikipedia article is a noble gesture. However, there may be occasions when, with the best  will in the world, it  is just  not  possible to accord even a minimum of notability to an article or stub, or find a proper source for it. Most regrettably, even the most  dedicated inclusionists will have to concede that  the article may  have to  go if the creator or major contributors cannot  justify their work. For new and recent unsourced BLPs, some users are now working at  WT:BLP PROD TPL on  the development  of templates that are designed to  encourage contributors to source new BLPs, without  scaring away the newbies who  might  not  be aware of the rules. This template is certainly not  another  a licence to  kill for the deletionists, in  fact  the very idea of it  is to  ensure that  you  are not  fighting a losing  battle. It would be great if you  could look  in  at the prgogress and maybe leave a word of encouragement. The workshop page is essentially a template development taskforce, and is not a place to  engage in a hefty  debate on  incusion/deletion  policy. See you at WT:BLP PROD TPL?--Kudpung (talk) 12:49, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

progress
Hi ! The template workshop has now split off most of the long threads purely on policy to a new discussion page so that policy can be established while technical  development  of the template can continue  in its own space. When the template functions are finalised, the policy  bits can be merged  into  them. If you intend to continue to  contribute your ideas to  the development  of the template or its policy of use, and we hope you  will, please consider either adding  your name to the list  of workshop members, or joining  in  with  the policy  discussions on the new page. --Kudpung (talk) 06:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Shinsei kamattechan
In January you PRODded this and I deleted it. A user has now requested its return, so per WP:DEL I have restored it, and now notify you in case you wish to take it to AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 10:02, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know - I'll take a look at the article in due course. Gonzonoir (talk) 11:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Meetup in Cambridge, 27 March
See Meetup/Cambridge 6 - much as before. We'd be glad to see you. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Welcome thing
Oops, thanks, see User_talk:Chzz  Chzz  ►  06:41, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation...
Thanks for taking the time to explain the deletion process.

I've been reading up on the guidelines, and I would say that hanggliding.org may fit ... or it may not.

Hang gliding itself is a relatively tiny slice of humanity and a web site (even the number 1 web site) serving that community is probably in the gray area. So I'm undecided myself.

Should I begin to add content to "make a case" or do you think that would be a waste of time? I know that's not a commitment either way (you can quote this later if I forget!), but it might be a helpful guide on using my time.

Thanks again for all the work that you must do keeping these articles in good shape. I've been using Wikipedia for a few years now, and I've always been impressed with the content.

Sincerely, Bob Kuczewski —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob Kuczewski (talk • contribs) 10:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, and I'm really glad to hear Wikipedia's been useful to you. Whatever happens next I hope you'll keep using the site.
 * As for whether it's worth your time expanding the article: I'd say, ask yourself how you're planning to expand it. Would you be adding stuff you just "know" about the site, e.g. from using it? In that case, the information would not be sourced, and might not be verifiable - so another editor could in good conscience come along and take it out again. That certainly would have been a waste of your time. But if you have a stack of New York Times articles that cover the site, and you're planning to expand it by quoting from them, or if there's, say, a published book listing major websites with a page-long entry about hanggliding.org that you'd like to reference, then you should go ahead: that would establish that the site is indeed notable, and should stay in Wikipedia.
 * All of this is to say that it all comes down to notability, which is a fairly narrow and straightforward criterion: we need to know that reliable sources have covered a thing in some detail before we can say it merits a Wikipedia encyclopedia article.
 * It's worth remembering that Wikipedia is not the only wiki. There are other sites out there that don't share our inclusion criteria. You could look at a list we maintain of alternative outlets, and see whether any of those appeal instead. Gonzonoir (talk) 11:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Excellent and well-explained response. Thanks very much. It looks like I've got a week to look into it, and I have contacted the site's owner about any objective references to its notability that he might have. As for me not using Wikipedia because my article was rejected ... that wouldn't make sense. After all, if the bar here is higher than I can meet with my first article, then that means there must be a lot here for me to learn!! Thanks again for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob Kuczewski (talk • contribs) 11:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Isabel Maria da Gama
Thanks for the message on this article. Unfort, I don't even remember doing an edit to this article. It must have been back in my earliest Wikipedia days when I edited things randomly without noting my sources. I've completely forgotten what source I would have used back then. Markwiki (talk) 14:03, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Responded at User_talk:Markwiki. Gonzonoir (talk) 14:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Communication with those who make comments, help desk
Thanks for your help. I amy have a little figured out. At least I got this far. You will have to understand that this is a little strange to me. I am working on it.

Elkmilok (talk) 16:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You're doing fine - you've managed to comment here so it looks like you're getting the hang of it. Just let us know (you can ask here on my talk page, or at the help desk) if you need anything. Gonzonoir (talk) 07:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Re:My RFA
Hey, I am reviewing all the recommendations the editors at my RFA gave me and I have a question about one of yours. You said that I needed more experience at ANI, but how do I get experience at ANI? By posting more incidents? Or by commenting on already posted ones? My question might sound ignorant, but I just don't see the use of a non-admin commenting on this page. Feed back  15:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't sound ignorant at all - thanks for following up.
 * There's two sides to this: one, if you list AN/I as an area where you want to work, as an admin, those who contribute in your RfA will be looking for evidence that you're familiar with it. Making relevant reports will let them see that you have a solid grasp of the board's remit. Good reports will probably also involve your asking for a specific admin remedy: that will let others see that you understand what an admin can and should do in the circumstances you're encountering. So yes, making more reports there is probably going to be important.
 * Secondly, if you spend some time watching at ANI, you'll probably see that many requests there receive non-admin commentary, and many are amenable to non-admin assistance (even if an admin might be needed to finish the job). Sometimes people will want opinions, advice, or extra sets of eyes: anyone can respond on those. Chipping in where it reduces an admin backlog (and where it's appropriate) shows your willingness to work in this area. Besides, just spending some time around that board will give you an insight into what kind of work admins there are doing, the kind of situation they have to deal with: and you'll start to get a sense of how they respond, the judgement calls they make. All good experience to have.
 * The caveat on all of this is that I'm very seldom to be found on AN/I! It's just not my cup of tea :)
 * Lastly, I hope you are not too downcast by your RfA outcome. As I said over there, you clearly have a great attitude toward the project, and that you're now looking to learn from this experience also shows you in a very good light. All the best. Gonzonoir (talk) 16:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I definitely will try and help more out at ANI in the upcoming months. I'm not dispirited by the RFA outcome, I knew there was a great chance of rejection, but in both the cases of rejection and acceptance, I knew I would still be able to continue to learn. Feed  back  16:20, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Just so there's no confusion
The way I responded here wasn't intended as a correction to anything you wrote, but a response to Mikey's comment that DRV is not what he wanted. However, as you point out, there doesn't seem to be a case there, so I agree that contacting the admin makes sense.-- SPhilbrick  T  12:18, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheers SPhilbrick - you made a good point, though, and caused me to understand DRV better (I hadn't realised archived cases were so easy to retrieve), so I think it's all to the good! Gonzonoir (talk) 13:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Immunize (talk) (talk) 14:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Sanjay Puran Singh Chauhan
Dear Gonzonoir,

This is with reference to your post on the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_puran_singh_chauhan for deletion due to unavailablity of references. I have put some references for your information. Please check and undo the request. Please let me know if you shall require anything else.

Regards

Vivek K.
 * Hi Vivek - yes, those references look good. Thank you for adding them. I tagged the page with the new tag for proposing deletion of unreferenced biographies of living persons, under which articles created after March of this year must include references if their primary subject is a living person. This is a new policy that applies to all articles; I didn't mean to single yours out. Thanks for your contributions. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Gary Critchley
I moved a comment of yours from that now-deleted talkpage to the relevant usertalk. It is good advice you give, and I hope they heed it. Regards, - 2/0 (cont.) 13:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC) Thanks 2/0 - glad you think I was along the right lines. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:58, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you(Mahlon Houkaraw
Thanks for the help, it was a little difficult finding information on him, appreciate it.--Equd (talk) 18:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Cambridge meetup
The next Cambridge meetup will take place on 29 May. Hope to see you there. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Can i please have some advice?
Can Cobras21 please have some advice on how he could stop his pages getting deleted. I would greatly appreciate if you could give me some..and please do it on my talk page. There should be a link here! Cobras21 (talk) 08:45, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Cobras21. I tagged an article you created, Adam De Maria, for speedy deletion under criterion A7, which means that it was a biographical article that gave no claim about the importance of its subject. To stay in Wikipedia, pages need at the very least to make a plausible claim about why their subject is important. If I remember correctly, this page said that its subject played for a junior football team and was friends with a given list of people. This didn't supply enough information to let other users see why that person was important enough to merit an encyclopedia article. Above this basic requirement, articles may still be deleted if they don't supply references to substantial coverage of the article's subject in multiple, reliable sources - that is, if they don't meet our notability criteria. You can read more about that by clicking on these blue links. You might find it useful, when creating articles, to use the Article Wizard or read the guide to writing your first article, both of which guide you through the steps you'll need to create an article about a notable subject that can stay in Wikipedia.
 * Does this answer your question? Feel free to ask again if not. Gonzonoir (talk) 08:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Re Alberto Celli
You caused an Edit Conflict with your correction. Could you please let me edit the article and make corrections when I am done in about two hours? moreno oso (talk) 13:40, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. If you put an template on the article other users will be able to tell that you're working and avoid problems like this. Gonzonoir (talk) 14:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Most times when an editor is posting cites as I indicated in the AfD debate, other editors don't jump in like you did. If I thought someone would have been as bold as you, I would put the tag up which I ended doing. moreno oso (talk) 15:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I caused you inconvenience, but when I made my edit (at 14:20) I had actually looked at your contrib history, seen that since your 14:13 edit on Alberto Celli you had moved off to the articles on Clara Alonso, an IP talk page, and your own user talk page, and assumed you were done with Alberto Celli for then. Gonzonoir (talk) 15:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I appreciate your comments and review of my contribs. As a Page Patroller, I don't like keeping my head buried too long in any article as one of "vandalistic" reverts was major. Some gal wrote something terrible in a male actor bio (don't know if that's the one you were looking at). Then, doing the Google Translation are tricky because I was working with languages that aren't my own. The Cite Web function works great sometimes in picking up the foreign article title but sometimes doesnt'. Then, I have a particular way of formatting my "ref names" that I saw another editor do. Basically they take the form of the root website and either date of publishing or date of retrival. As a Page Patroller, I see lots of these futbol stubs being created. I will usually help the editor by doing the article talkpage. And, I am familiar with the notability requirement that if the individual spend one day at the highest pro league or a national team that they are considered notable. I don't quite agree because the WP:OTHERSTUFF like actors should apply - if they have one role in a major film, the actor is notable. moreno oso (talk) 18:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. You've obviously put in a lot of work on this player, which I respect. I'm still !voting to delete in this particular AfD, but we can discuss that over on the relevant AfD page. Gonzonoir (talk) 07:38, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Reg : Optimus Global Services WIKI
Hi , I have added the WIKI Page as optimus global services I can see the message as Speedy deletion of the page. But is about legal content of the company. So Please Update me the status. Thanks Hitesh
 * Hi - I tagged the page for speedy deletion because it's written as an advertisement for the company. Look at the places where the terms "we" and "our" are used, for example, and the tone of the language used: "Over the years we have gained a wealth of experience and knowledge"; "At Optimus, the personnel-oriented environment encourages individuality and creates leaders who have what it takes to grow an enterprise from strength to strength". The article sounds as though it is trying to promote or sell the company. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so as well as being non-promotional its content expected to be neutral. To meet the standards of encyclopedic content, I believe this article would need to be completely rewritten.


 * So that's why I tagged the article: I should tell you too about some related concerns. One is that, even if the article were written in a completely neutral and non-promotional tone, I believe its subject might fail our notability inclusion criteria. To have an encyclopedia article, a company must have been the subject of substantial coverage in reliable, independent sources like books or newspapers. A quick search of Google News Archive is not showing that kind of coverage. Thirdly, you should be aware of our conflict of interest policy if you yourself are affiliated with Optimus.


 * If you're looking to promote the company, this list of other outlets includes some directories and business listing sites that might let you host your material away from Wikipedia.


 * Does this answer your questions? Gonzonoir (talk) 10:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and as for the article's status: it is currently awaiting review by an administrator, who will determine whether the page indeed meets the speedy deletion criteria. It will then be deleted if so, or the deletion tag removed if not. Gonzonoir (talk) 10:05, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Grab some glory, and a barnstar
Hi, I'd like to invite you to participate in the Guild of Copy Editors July 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive. In May, about 30 editors helped remove the tag from 1175 articles. The backlog is still over 7500 articles, and extends back to the beginning of 2008! We really need your help to reduce it. Copyediting just a couple articles can qualify you for a barnstar. Serious copyeditors can win prestigious and exclusive rewards. See the event page for more information. And thanks for your consideration. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 14:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for signing up for the July Backlog Elimination Drive! The copyedit backlog stretches back two and a half years, all the way back to the beginning of 2008! We're really going to need all the help we can to get it down to a manageable number. We've ambitiously set a goal of clearing all of 2008 from the backlog this month. In order to do that, we're going to need more participants. Is there anyone that you can invite or ask to participate with you? If so, we're offering an award to the person who brings in the most referrals. Just notify ɳorɑfʈ  Talk! or  Diannaa  TALK of who your referrals are. Once again, thanks for your support!  Diannaa  TALK 02:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank spam!
TFOWR 21:30, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Reviewer granted
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. – xeno talk 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Vlatko Ilievski
I thought he'd turn out to be a "MySpace musician", but it seems he's actually kind of famous in Macedonia. I was amazed to find sources. You moved his bio from the Slavic version of his name; it'd have been good to include that version of his name in the article when you moved it as searching under non-English alphabets can greatly improve the chances of finding sources - all the sources I found were in Macedonian. Fences &amp;  Windows  18:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, nicely done with the sources. Apologies for making it harder by vanishing the Cyrillic version of the name. Looking back over that article, I didn't really do it justice: I took off the CSD tag per the claim of importance, but I was rattling through new page patrol faster than probably necessary so I added the BLPPROD and left the creator a note. Should've taken some time to add sources myself. I'll keep this in mind with non-English names in future. Gonzonoir (talk) 08:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

RfA
Thank you very much for your contribution to my Rfa. I have made a comment about it at User talk:JamesBWatson which you are, of course, very welcome to read if you wish to. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:48, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Backlog Elimination Drive Has Begun
Hello, I just wanted to take a moment and announce that the July 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive has started, and will run for a month. Thanks for signing up. There's a special prize for most edits on the first day, in case you've got high ambitions. Enjoy! ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 03:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

William Rhodes Davis
RE: Your edits on new William Rhodes Davis page. You are confusing what you describe as "original research" with stating the obvious. I was assembling well documented, previously reported facts, sourced and cited to firmly support all of the information displayed in the original William Rhodes Davis wiki page. This is the same process that takes place in the creation and expansion of any well cited and supported body of information displayed on any wiki page on any topic or subject.

It is fact, supported by court records, NY Times marriage announcement details of the marriage of Doris J. Meyer to Joseph Graham Davis, and by Doris Meyer Morrell's obituary, that she and Joseph Graham are the parents of Gray Davis, aka Joseph Graham Davis Jr., and that Joseph Graham Davis, father of Gray Davis, was the son of William Rhodes Davis. It is fact, by virtue of these reliable records described above, with or without the citation of any other description of these familisl reltionships. The facts dictate the obvious relationships between these fsmily members. William Rhodes Davis was infamous, some called him a traitor and a murderer. I documented thst ss fsct. Doesn't it stand to reason that Gray Davis would endeavor to disassociate himself from sn infamous grandfather, with the cooperation of a compliant U.S. press?

The facts are that, three months after the August, 1941 death of Nazi Abwehr agent C-80, William Rhodes Davis, the NY Times reported that Joseph Graham Davis, son of the late William Rhodes Davis, married Doris J. Meyers, daughter the late George H. Meyer. In October, 2006, this notice of Meyer' death appeared in the NY Times.:

"Published: October 8, 2006

MORELL--Doris Meyer of Juno Beach, FL died on October 1, 2006 after a long battle with lung cancer. Daughter of the late Anne & George H. Meyer, she was born in Buffalo, NY on June 2, 1923. She graduated from the Convent Of the Sacred Heart 91st St. NYC cum laude and attended Marymount College in Tarrytown, NY. She is survived by her loving husband Armand M. Morell and devoted children; Joseph G. Gray Davis, Jr. and his wife Sharon;..."

The Doris Meyer in the death notice, above, was also the daughter of George H. Meyer and the notice further states, the mother of Joseph G. Davis Jr. Also on October 8, 2006, the San Diego Union Tribune published a death notice stating that former California Gov. Gray Davis was her son.:

"DORIS MEYER MORELL, 83: The mother of former California Gov. Gray Davis, who actively campaigned for her son during several key elections, died last Sunday at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center in Florida of complications from lung cancer, Davis told The Associated Press Monday. He said he was with his mother when she died. “My mother was a remarkable woman, very strong but with a big heart,” Davis said in a telephone interview from his Los Angeles home. “She was the source of much of my inspiration, much of my motivation.” Born in Buffalo, N.Y., Mrs. Morell was attending Marymount College in Tarrytown, N.Y. when she married her first husband, Joseph G. Davis. The couple had five children and lived in Los Angeles from 1955 to 1963, when they divorced and she returned to her home state. Mrs. Morell later married Armand Morell ...."

This record from a court in New York state confirms that Joseph Gray Davis, the man NY Times articles in November, 1941 state was married to Doris Meyer with his brother, Currie Boyd Dsvis as his best man, was in fact, the son and heir of William Rhodes Davis, and that Currie Boyd Davis was a son as well.

"Davis' Will, In re, 219 N.Y.S.2d 533, 31 Misc.2d 270 (N.Y. Sur., 1950) .. the Executor of theLast Will and Testament of William Rhodes Davis, Deceased, and for the Judicial Settlement of the First Intermediate Account of Proceedings...

..Bleakley, Platt, Hart & Fritz, New York City, for Joseph Graham Davis and Currie Boyd Davis; Charles L. Brieant, Jr., New York City, of counsel..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruidoso (talk • contribs) 15:50, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

On a web page devoted to a recently published book on the life of Sam Pryor Jr., a man described in the prior books of several authors as knowingly facilitating William Rhodes Davis's efforts in 1940 to provide Wendell Willkie with csmpaign financing from the Nazi regime in Germany, George HW Bush posted an endorsement of the Pryor Jr. biography, and these comments are attributed to Karl Rove.:

"If anything, Make it Happen underplays Sam Pryor's role in the 1940 Republican Convention and nomination of Wendell Willkie. Pryor was the pivot on what so much turned in those quick and important months."

Rove and Bush are claimed to have made positive comments about Pryor Jr. by the author of his biography, his son, Sam Pryor III, an attorney. The Rove and Bush comments were made despite Pryor's background.:

Time Magazine Monday, Jan. 06, 1941 "WAR & PEACE: Exquisite Befuddlement"

"...Organized hastily three weeks ago in Iowa was a new isolationist group (No Foreign War Committee) headed by Verne Marshall, editor of the Cedar Rapids Gazette, a dark, hard-bitten veteran of World War I and of numerous local crusades. (In 1936 Marshall and his Gazette managed to have 31 Iowa State officials indicted, and the Gazette was awarded a Pulitzer Prize for "most meritorious service to the community." Same day the Iowa Supreme Court dismissed the indictments on technical grounds.) Marshall moved to Manhattan, took luxurious headquarters (recently Willkie's) for his committee, at once paid $41,000 for full-page advertisements in 60 papers in 51 cities, asking for money to fight interventionists. Another ad was set for this week in 79 papers in 57 cities.

Marshall, who once described himself as a "rabble-rouser" of the first World War, planned a St. Louis mass meeting soon after Jan. 1, to be addressed by Colonel Lindbergh.

A melodramatic tinge to the Marshall confusion developed this week when Marshall, urging a peace conference of belligerents, named the U. S. spokesman he would send to it. His candidate: steely-eyed Promoter William Rhodes Davis, "mystery man," who has made spectacular fortunes in mining, rubber, cheese and oil. In 1939, Marshall said, Davis brought back a "just and honorable peace proposal," initialed by Davis' friend Hermann Goring. It would have ended the war in ten days, Marshall said, but Roosevelt refused to look at it...." Mystery man: William Rhodes Davis, American Nazi agent of influence Dale Harrington - 2001 - 276 pages They had been discussed at the Marshall-Davis meeting at Sam Pryor's house in October and Marshall later went to Davis's office asking for more information about the plan. Marshall told Davis he needed the facts for a speech he would be ...

Mystery man: William Rhodes Davis, American Nazi agent of influence Dale Harrington - 2001 - 276 pages Marshall, Verne — Isolationist newspaper editor. Major backer of Willkie and in 1940 leader of a militant isolationist organization that was funded by Davis. Morgenthau, Henry — US treasury secretary under Roosevelt. Pryor ... Ruidoso (talk) 15:37, 1 July 2010 (UTC)ruidoso
 * My concern is that no reliable source has written about the relationship between the two. That's what makes this original research, by the Wikipedia definition. The page you've just quoted here says "I can find nowhere else, the documentation that I have provided that makes a persuasive case, IMO, that William Rhodes Davis. Nazi agent and moneyman, supplier of oil to the Nazi war machine, allegedly "removed"....murdered....by British spymaster, Stephenson, aka "Intrepid", is the grandfather of recently recalled California governor, "Gray" Davis.". Now, per my understanding of our original research policy, Wikipedia can't be the first place to publish a claim like that, which is a controversial claim about a living person. Our notability and verifiability policies intend to ensure that the content in Wikipedia can all be backed up by existing publications. You seem to be implying that there's a deliberate press blackout on this subject - if that were so, it would be a shame, but it would unfortunately mean that there's likely to be nothing much Wikipedia can publish on it either because all our content needs to be traced back to a reliable source.
 * If you disagree with my interpretation of the original research policy, you can request a third opinion here. Gonzonoir (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I did not quote that sentence, "I can find no where else..." it is my own comment. I've offered enough citations to show without a doubt that Gray Davis is the grandson....it is obvious. This is not original research....sources existed, I display them, link them, and state the obvious. If you err this severely on the side of caution, at least reinsert the well supported sentence to the effect that Rhodes Davis's son was Joseph Graham Davis Sr., father of former California governor, Gray Davis. The court record, marriage announcements, and Doris Meyer obit in San Diego newspaper prove it as fact....Ruidoso (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:38, 1 July 2010 (UTC).

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