User talk:GordonScott

License tagging for File:Tally-Ho-Beken0001.jpg
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Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Tally Ho (yacht)


A tag has been placed on Draft:Tally Ho (yacht) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a clear copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from http://www.albertstrange.org/category/boats/betty/. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website or image but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:03, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

response
Yes, it's a very close copy because I am an administrator on the ASA website and the author and I agreed to put a modified copy on Wikipedia.

" Looks good to me, Gordon, although I don't think she ever made it to NZ. She was sailed from England by a Kiwi who took on a job shipping copra in the islands where she ended up on the reef, not doing the job or getting to NZ.  After repairs she went to Hawaii and then Brookings.

Thanks and Cheers, Thad "

Please note that Thad Danielson is the author. Dick Wynne, named on the ASA page is another administrator of the ASA website and not the author. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.127.155.63 (talk) 16:38, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Incidentally, the photograph mentioned further up has been publicly visible for many years. We have tried to get a copyright statement from Beken, but they never respond yes or no. One would think the publicity would be welcome, but they seem uninterested. Odd. Ho Hum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.127.155.63 (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Please see Donating copyrighted materials for how to release your text under a sufficiently free license so that it can be used on Wikipedia. Please note that even if the copyrighted material is released, to avoid deletion, the page must still meet the general notability guideline by showing significant coverage of the article subject in reliable sources. Patar knight - chat/contributions 03:00, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I tried to fill a gap in wikipedia. It was my first article and lots of this is confusing. I checked the box that said there was no copyright issue. I spent half a day putting together relevant information, rather than earning my living. The article was just deleted. No discussion, no request to 'donate the copyright', nothing. Just deleted. I'll not assemble it again. Waste of my time and money. Oh yes, I've now learned how to sign. First 'talk', too.

87.127.155.63 (talk) 09:24, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Except that, obviously, I have to have logged-in first.

GordonScott (talk) 09:25, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that you were given offense in this matter, though Wikipedia must take copyright issues very seriously. The other thing that is important here is notability; article subjects must be shown to meet the relevant notability guidelines.  It also sometimes takes time for new users to get their sea legs, so to speak, and learn how things are done here.  Sometimes that means initial contributions are deleted or removed.  You might want to read some of the introductory information for new users, which may help you.  There is also an area for new users to ask questions if you need assistance. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

It isn't so much offense as a wasted half day with no means to recover that. I _did_ state that there were no copyright issues, but still the article was deleted. No opportunity to donate the copyright, or anything else.

GordonScott (talk) 10:15, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry about you feeling that your time was wasted, and having your contributions removed is certainly frustrating, but it isn't meant as a personal sleight against you. As I understand it, it wasn't just deleted due to the copyright issue(though that was likely part of it) but also because the subject was not demonstrated to be notable with independent reliable sources. If you can do that, and address the copyright matter, your article would probably survive.  If you want, it is possible to draft your page so that it isn't removed while you are working on it, and have it reviewed before posting.  If you visit Articles for Creation there is a step by step process to help with article creation. Even doing that, though, you will need to address the copyright matter.  Such matters must be taken seriously, otherwise Wikipedia would be opened up to legal trouble. 331dot (talk) 10:23, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure it wasn't a sleight. It was however very heavy-handed. This was a draft copy awaiting approval and could have been revisited, as a draft, after comment and advice. Why delete it? It was a draft! I don't entirely understand what the issue was about 'notability' or independent reliable sources. This is about the boat to which the original link referred (Tally Ho, winner of the 1927 Fastnet race), and references to the skippers' own reports in magazines of the time.

GordonScott (talk) 10:41, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Now I'm offended ... the [expletive deleted]'s just done it again with the replacement page! Life's too short.

GordonScott (talk) 14:16, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

October 2016
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment; or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button (Insert-signature.png or Signature icon.png) located above the edit window.

Thank you. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 14:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Talkback
-- Patar knight - chat/contributions 14:48, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Um, I did. That's why there's a signature against my comment.

GordonScott (talk) 14:55, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Not in this edit. In any case, the talkback notice is more important. Patar knight - chat/contributions 15:38, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Lug sail
Hi Gordon Scott, Thank you for your contribution at Lug sail. Unfortunately, you did not supply a reference. I'm writing you in hopes that you can supply one so that your contribution can remain in the article. You may put in a bare link, if necessary, and I'll fix it, e.g. . Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 14:31, 16 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm not sure quite how one handles references in this context.  I sail a lugger, these are techniques I use and that I know others use.


 * Here's someone showing the Beer Lugger technique:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6WA3fmr_E
 * (from the town/village of Beer, not the drink)


 * Ah, as it happens, the next video shows the other technique.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGn7MWPOwx0


 * Gordon.
 * Thank you for those, Gordon. Unfortunately, YouTube videos don't qualify as Identifying reliable sources and personal knowledge is frowned on as No original research.
 * I noticed at Talk:Sail and here that you may not be familiar with how to sign your name on Talk pages. It's easy: just click on the ~ below the edit window or type in "~" . This will automatically generate a signature and date of entry.
 * Another helpful technique on Talk pages is to indent your comment with one more : (colon) than was used by the correspondent of the remarks above your new ones, as I have done to your previous remarks and mine, here.
 * Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 21:27, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Oral tradition
There are lots of techniques like these that may well even now be as much in the oral tradition than written down. I can't find on Wikipedia descriptions of things like "scandalising", "tricing", "drudging", "winding ship". I know what they all mean and ways to do them, but where might one find them written down? Bermudian rigged fin keel boats with engines don't need them. We don't want to lose the techniques just because we can't find them in a book somewhere. We need "unverified" or "citation wanted", but might never get them. GordonScott (talk) 00:33, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Gordon, you might look at the Glossary of nautical terms. "Scandalising" and "tricing" are already there. Typically a dictionary or nautical handbook entry would suffice to include such terms. Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 00:44, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I hadn't found that ... I'm not sure why not. The entries are very sketchy. Goodness only know why "ferry glide" isn't there though. I guess I should add some.

There's a fundamental issue here, though. For a long time I couldn't work out how the Beer luggers dipped. Obviously they must, but going forward to the bowsprit on a small boat in a seaway, to unhitch the tack of the sail made little sense. Difficult and potentially dangerous. One day, looking at a photograph, I realised there was a line going around the sail forward of the luff and a bit of thought with a bit of "is that even possible" gave the answer. It was several years later that someone else confirmed that I was correct and the only 'document' I've seen showing the method it is that YouTube video. Obviously sailors of Beer luggers do it all the time, learn from each other and possibly have never felt a need to write it down. I can't remember ever seeing it written anywhere.

Again I can show a picture that shows the arrangement: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-sailing-a-beer-lugger-boat-devon-england-uk-europe-23773336.html I guess mid-tack they're not so photogenic.

The other technique may be documented somewhere, though there are variations even then. I'll see what I can find. I'm on the boat and sans library at the moment. GordonScott (talk) 08:00, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
 * One thing to bear in mind, Gordon, is that, while Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places and things, an article should not read like a "how-to" style owner's manual, cookbook, advice column (legal, medical or otherwise) or suggestion box. This includes tutorials, instruction manuals, game guides, and recipes. Describing to the reader how people or things use or do something is encyclopedic; instructing the reader in the imperative mood about how to use or do something is not. Such guides may be welcome at Wikibooks instead. (WP:NOTMANUAL) Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 15:01, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi, yes, I've seen that elsewhere too. I puzzle a bit though where one ends and the other begins, particularly where there are different end. GordonScott (talk) 17:39, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Glossary of nautical terms
Took it upon myself to edit your definition of Ferry Glide. Please take a look. Thanks. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:38, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Looks good. GordonScott (talk) 17:27, 17 April 2017 (UTC)