User talk:Govercon/2021/April

Vietnam
It still is a summary, with some stuff added. At least leave Ltn12345 edits, they are sourced and they actually add interesting and encyclopedic stuff, like Vietnam being a regional and middle power. Also, why removing Soviet-Chinese help North received?

Article being infested with sockpuppeting (I suppose with "socks", you mean that) is another thing. Lone Internaut (talk) 21:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * – If you look at the articles of other SEA countries, most or none of them mentions it being a "regional" or "middle power", as it is merely just a point of view. It's best to leave the lead of the country itself as a summary instead of getting too superfluous, such as its geography, the organizations that is a part of, etc. If you wish to add material relating to geopolitical relations of Vietnam, the lead is not the place. Consider Foreign relations of Vietnam, United States–Vietnam relations, or China–Vietnam relations. Govercon (talk) 21:48, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I was undecided to where add the stuff I added initially, and was already thinking at moving that stuff in United States–Vietnam relations. Still we should specify Soviet-Chinese help North received in the lead, can we do this? Lone Internaut (talk) 21:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I believe the additions were appropriate. Here is the lead section in revision 1014491668: "Vietnam (sometimes written as Viet Nam, Việt Nam, ), officially the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (Cộng hòa Xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt Nam), is a country in Southeast Asia. Located at the eastern edge of the Indochinese Peninsula, Vietnam is divided into 58 provinces and five municipalities, covering 331,699 square kilometres, with a population of over 96 million inhabitants as of 2019, making it the 16th most populous country in the world. Vietnam shares its land borders with China to the north, and Laos and Cambodia to the west. It shares its maritime borders with Thailand through the Gulf of Thailand, and the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia through the South China Sea. Its capital city is Hanoi, and its most populous city is Ho Chi Minh City.

Archaeological excavations indicate that Vietnam was inhabited as early as the Paleolithic age. The ancient Vietnamese nation, which was centered on the Red River valley and nearby coastal areas, was annexed by the Han dynasty in the 2nd century BC, which subsequently made Vietnam a division of Imperial China for over a millennium. The first independent monarchy emerged in the 10th century AD. This paved the way for successive imperial dynasties as the nation expanded southward until the Indochina Peninsula was colonised by the French in the late 19th century. Modern Vietnam was born upon the Proclamation of Independence from France in 1945. Following Vietnamese victory against the French in the First Indochina War, which ended in 1954, the nation was divided into two rival states: communist North and anti-communist South. Conflicts intensified in the Vietnam War, which saw extensive US intervention in support of South Vietnam and Soviet and Chinese support for the North, and ended with North Vietnamese victory in 1975.

After North and South Vietnam were reunified as a communist state under a unitary socialist government in 1976, the country became economically and politically isolated until 1986, when the Communist Party initiated a series of economic and political reforms that facilitated Vietnamese integration into world politics and the global economy. As a result of the successful reforms, Vietnam has enjoyed a high GDP growth rate, consistently ranked among the fastest-growing countries in the world. It is a regional power in Southeast Asia and is considered a middle power in global affairs. It is a developing country with an lower-middle-income economy, and high Human Development Index. It nevertheless faces challenges including corruption, pollution, poverty, inadequate social welfare and a poor human rights record, including increasing persecution of religious groups and human rights advocates and intensifying restrictions on civil liberties. By 2010, Vietnam had established diplomatic relations with 178 countries. It is part of several major international and intergovernmental institutions or groupings including the United Nations (UN), the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum, Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), International Organisation of the Francophonie (La Francophonie), Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) and the World Trade Organization (WTO). The country has also assumed a seat on the United Nations Security Council twice."

Some of the changes (compared to the current one) were: And I think the lead is not that long compared to the whole page.( more than 314,000 bytes) --Ltn12345 (talk) 07:44, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Change "...a country in Southeast Asia and the easternmost country on the Indochinese Peninsula. With an estimated 97.8 million inhabitants as of 2020, it is the 16th most populous country in the world." to "...a country in Southeast Asia. Located at the eastern edge of the Indochinese Peninsula, Vietnam is divided into 58 provinces and five municipalities, covering 331,699 square kilometres, with a population of over 96 million inhabitants as of 2019, making it the 16th most populous country in the world.": add the number of subdivisions and areas, rephrase the sentence.
 * Add "It is a regional power in Southeast Asia and is considered a middle power in global affairs." This sentence (or some of its variants) is quite common in other country articles like Australia ("It is considered a regional power"), Thailand ("Despite comparatively sporadic changes in leadership, it is considered a middle power in global affairs"), Iran ("Iran is a regional and middle power, with a geopolitically strategic location"), Qatar ("For its size, Qatar wields disproportionate influence in the world, and has been identified as a middle power"), Saudi Arabia ("Saudi Arabia is considered a regional and middle power"), Algeria ("Algeria is a regional and middle power"), Egypt (Egypt is considered to be a regional power in North Africa, the Middle East and the Muslim world, and a middle power worldwide), Nigeria ("...identified as a regional power on the African continent, a middle power in international affairs, and has also been identified as an emerging global power"), South Africa ("The country is a middle power in international affairs; it maintains significant regional influence"), Brazil ("On account of its international recognition and influence, the country is subsequently classified as an emerging power and a potential superpower by several analysts"), Turkey ("Turkey is a regional power and a newly industrialized country—ranking very high in the Human Development Index; with a geopolitically strategic location"), France ("It remains a great power in global affairs"), Italy (" it is both a regional power and a great power, and is ranked the world's eighth most-powerful military") And I'm not sure what "articles of other SEA countries" you checked, but Thailand or Indonesia articles all mentioned "regional power" or "middle power". Others are not simply because they are not "regional power" or "middle power". The sources are from The Diplomat, Lowy Institute and a journal from Asian Survey.
 * Add "It is a developing country with an lower-middle-income economy, and high Human Development Index.": Again, it is very popular. Most articles all had this sentence.
 * Change from "It is a member of such international organisations as the United Nations (UN), the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum, and the World Trade Organization (WTO)" to "It is part of several major international and intergovernmental institutions or groupings including the United Nations (UN), the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum, Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), International Organisation of the Francophonie (La Francophonie), Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) and the World Trade Organization (WTO).": rephrase the sentence and add some organizations.
 * Add "The country has also assumed a seat on the United Nations Security Council twice": Actually, if you feel this is redundant, feel free to delete it. It is not too important.