User talk:Grant65/Archive Mar07-May07

football is a controversial word
Please see my recent discussion section before reverting the football (word) page. I think a trying to make the same point, but those two sentences were not helping.

Discussion?
Given your participation in the Nicole Kidman debate, I thought you might be interested in the discussion I started at Wikipedia Talk:Overcategorization. --Vbd (talk) 14:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey Grant, Thanks for contributing to the discussion! I initially became aware of the problem because of the constant back and forth about "Canadian Americans."  I didn't realize it was a more widespread problem until I stumbled upon the Nicole Kidman debates.  (I laughed when I saw that Kidman was categorised as both an "American Australian" and a "Australian American.")  Do you have any suggestions for a coherent, consistent categorisation scheme?  --Vbd (talk) 17:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007
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kalumburu
I am trying to get some consistency with the articles on aboriginal communities. generally when they are searched on the gazetteer site they are listed as 'Name Community'. This is why i moved it from kalumburu to kalumburu communityFancyfootwork 15:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe should split the article to better reflect the townsite content and the airplane contentFancyfootwork 15:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

When I google kalumburu community I get 44000 hits - I agree that people would not call it kalumburu community when they refer to it but simply kalumburu. This is the same as many aboriginal communities. However the site http://www.ga.gov.au/map/names/ states that the majority of other community places are known by Name Community (eg Bidyadanga, Kadjina, Yungngora, Djarindjin, Beagle Bay, Bayulu, Mowanjum, Imintji, Ngallagunda, Wah Dodnun, Pandanus Park, Ngumpan, Ngalingkadji, Djugerari, Tirralintji....) I do note that some have a choice of either Name or Name Community so perhaps there needs to be two articles - one to talk about the locality and one to talk about the community. I feel that this is a silly idea because there would generally not be enough to talk about for two articles. In keeping all the aboriginal communities distinct from towns in lists and such the adding of community helps.

I have no intention of adding the term community because the majority of people are aboriginal but being aboriginal communities they are all grouped together as such by having community after their name it makes readers distinguish easier.

Kalumburu will always be predominantly an aboriginal community governed by the community laws. I dont think it would be as easy to purchase a block of land in Kalumburu as would be in a town.Fancyfootwork 01:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Aboriginal communties are distinct from towns - the land on which they sit is classes as leases exercised for the "Use and benefits of Aboriginal People", services such as water and sewerage are funded by AAD and ATSIC and provided by service providers other than Water Corporation similarly power is also by AAD and ATSIC and not Horizon Power. Housing is similar. Generally the residents are proud of their heritage and are not concerned by being known as aboriginal communities. It is a totally distinct argument from muslim suburbs and Anglo towns. I and unless otherwise stated I expect the residents would not be uncomfortable in categorising communities seperately. None of the people I have ever spoken to on any communities seem concerned that the communities are not seen as towns but would stand corrected if this is the case. Should an airforce base be reinstated in kalumburu it would be a totally seperate entity from the community. The workable definition of an aboriginal community would appear to be more about the land use which in turn comes from its inhabitants. I am not nor ever intend myself nor my editing to be construed as racist. Fancyfootwork 04:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this discussion has moved way off track - I dont wish for anything to be politicised, merely to present an article which is reflected by its title and is grouped with similar articles. No more no less. To appease all I shall write another article and put it at kalumburu community, western australia which will reflect the content that it is written about an aboriginal community called kalumburu. Any objections?Fancyfootwork 10:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

List of Indigenous Australian group names
Hi, just curious why you removed the number showing Palyku were on the AIATSIS map as they are shown here? --Astrokey 44 10:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thomas Eastick
Thanks for blue-linking him, Grant - it's nice to know more about him. I've had Batu Lintang up for military history peer review but only had feedback from User:Kirill Lokshin, mercifully nothing too critical (apart I suppose from my heavy reliance on Ooi). I've got a few more books on order from Amazon (and one from Singapore), so when they arrive I'll add more to the article. After that I might put it up for FA. I've also got more info on the Ranau/Sandakan death marches which I'll get round to adding to that article at some point. Cheers Jasper33 08:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Edits to Battle of Savo Island
I appreciate your clean-up of this article, but I noticed you changed two of the images in the article. I know those two images weren't very clear, but they are actual combat photos taken during the battle, which I felt made them of value since there aren't very many "action" pictures available of the naval night battles that took place in the Solomons. Cla68 23:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Admin vote
Thanks for the support on the admin nomination. I don't think it's going to pass, but I appreciate the vote of confidence. Cla68 20:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested in..
Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Southeast Asian military history task force has just started up... SatuSuro 15:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Dr Taylor
Hi Grant, hope you had a good Easter. I'm very interested in Dr Taylor, as I think he may be the same Dr Taylor my grandmother mentioned in her recollections:

"Our only regular European visitor in the early 30s was the doctor - an Australian who lived in Jesselton and visited each estate once a week. We had a hospital with a dresser to look after patients.  The village men were quite willing to go and be treated but not so the women.  Sometimes a man would come and ask for treatment for one of his children, but generally he’d return and say his wife wouldn’t allow it.

One dresser we had was a Bengali. He used to have to come to the house and give Daddy quinine injections when he had malaria as he couldn’t take it orally (it always made him sick), and back then there was no alternative. I was, as usual, the perfect patient and took quinine with no trouble, but Daddy was a menace. The minute his temperature was over 102° he became delirious and had no idea of what he was doing, nor did he recognise anyone. When I arrived [in 1930] Doctor Taylor told me about his feverish antics and said I’d to get him to bed as quickly as possible (easier said than done) and get the dresser to give him injections of quinine four times a day. Unfortunately Daddy, not recognising anyone, objected to the dresser and used to lie in bed shouting 'Send the bloody man away'. So each injection meant a noisy battle four times a day. He had once been stopped by a friend (who was luckily staying there) as he was climbing out of an upstairs window; another time he came to himself to find he was sitting in pouring rain, propped up against a tennis net post, about three yards from our crocodile-infested river. I always knew when he was starting malaria as his eyes used to go funny and had a sort of glaring look and he recognised nothing and nobody. I found him once on the bedroom floor, crawling on all fours, picking up spiders he said."

I'd done a bit of research on him (he's mentioned in Ooi and Keith) - really for footnotes for my granny's memoirs than for the Batu Lintang article - and came up with "Dr J.P. Taylor, an Australian in charge of the Government Hospital in Sandakan [in 1942] was not interned initially. Following the invasion, he was involved in intelligence, providing medical and other supplies to prisoners at Sandakan, and he organised a fund to provide assistance to prisoners. He was held in Kuching goal, put on trial in 1944 and sentenced to 15 years’ imprisonment. (Chapter 25 of The Japanese Thrust by Lionel Wigmore).  Dr Taylor is referred to in TCH pp. 43, 99, 151, 207-8.  He and his wife survived the war." I'm looking forward to what you add. And sigh, now I'm just going to have to track that book down ... (I've already bought Bell, Darch and Lim - this obsession is getting expensive!) Jasper33 11:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I forgot to say, I made a page on Tatsuji Suga but don't know where to start to look to find out info about his military career. I'm intrigued by the fact that he had WWI Allied decorations. Jasper33 11:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for offering to keep an eye out for the book. I haven't tried it on Amazon yet (waiting for the next pay cheque first ...!). And what a small world about the Quartermaine interview, and what a shame it's not on the web. Survivors must be few on the ground these days - apart from those who were children, I suppose - though they would be in their mid sixties at least by now. I'm also intruiged by the photo in the Suga article - it looks like it's on an American boat (a PT boat, I've been told) - I'd love to know what had just been said or done to elicit the hearty laughs from all including Suga, considering he was probably either going to or coming from the surrender ceremony on the Kapunda, and knew his family were all dead. I'm also curious about what he studied at the University of Washington. One day maybe I'll find out (part of the reason I stuck the Univ of Wash category at the end of the article, to try to pique someone in the know's interest)... Cheers Jasper33 19:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Terminolo-folly
Just saw your entry into a debate long since finished (?) about the Indonesian Malaysian confrontation - the Indonesian project has been plagued by weird and wonderful 'outsiders' labels and titles for events - my favourite was the Indonesian Civil War - for the 65/66 events. It is now the Overthrow of Sukarno. Currently the project its trying to give a label to the historical events/process by which Islam foudn itself in Indonesia. My personal policy is we give the labels used most by the people inolved (as in x million indonesians cannot be wrong!) - which is a long way of saying I agree with konfrontasi! SatuSuro 04:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope we might catchup off wiki sometime - as the issues that we skirt upon need either a long coffee/beer or perhaps a very good quality red wine. SatuSuro 05:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Meetup
It would be difficult for me to get there and back, but I haven't entirely given up on the prospect. Hesperian 05:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Kormoran‎ photo
I agree with your comments in the edit summaries Grant. The photo's removal was pretty ridiculous. --Nick Dowling 08:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

George Wootten
Hi Grant. Fed-up with seeing his redlink in the BL article, I've made a very sketch stub on Maj-Gen Wootten. However, as I know diddly squat about military matters it's a bit of a cut-and-paste job and I'm sure would benefit from your knowledgable input if you have the time. I could have had a go at adding more info, but figured that someone would only have to re-write it ... Still, the stub's a start. There are probably loads of more appropriate pics of him out there: the one I used was one I had saved to my computer (but it strkingly highlights the difference between the corpulent Wootten and the skeletal POWs). Thanks for the additions to BL, by the way. I'm still on the trail of that one. Cheers Jasper33 11:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was quick! Fantastic expansion and pics, so thanks. I'm with you on the Old Guard. ... Jasper33 14:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

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Email
Please check :) Orderinchaos 07:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Indian Empire / East African Campaign (World War II)
Hi. I'm not going to push the point but the article Indian Empire (which redirects to Indian Raj) says that current usage is now typically British India (I suppose because British Raj sounds uncomfortable to modern ears and has baggage(POV?) and Indian Empire might be confused by modern uninformed readers as an empire of India rather than Britain. Anyway 'Empire' these days tends to have a rather perjorative inflection). The reason I changed it to subcontinent was to keep it slightly vague to allow the fact that a significant proportion of the troops were for instance from Nepal (Gurkhas) which was never under British control anyway. If you want to retain the more precise wording I think the modern usage of 'British India' should be employed (as it has been elsewhere). What do you think? Stephen Kirragetalk - contribs 16:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

"_____ actress"/"actress from _____"
Sorry, I don't really see the difference here in terms of Kidman being born in the USA(?) The only reason I prefer "actress from Australia" is simply because it is unusual (and I think ugly) to have footnotes in the middle of sentences, and the fn obviously needs to come straight after "Australia". Grant | Talk 16:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If the article says "from", a reader might wrongly think she was born there. Anyways, no biggie, cheers!--Tom 18:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Showa/Hirohito
Hi, I just read your message. I would like to know if you refer to a specific change or article or if it is a general comment for future changes.

--Flying tiger 01:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

P.S. OK, I have read your changes on Militarism-Socialism in Showa Japan; I understand what you refer to. So, you think an internal link to Showa era is not enough? --Flying tiger 01:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Carey
How ya goin'. According to two or three bibliographic sources, he did not use or like "Sam". S. Warren Carey is how his works are attributed, I believe. Your thoughts? Regards ☻ Fred|☝ discussion |✍ contributions  04:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought it sounded wrong too, I used to think he was called Sam. I was only able to find one citation for it, something about the war. There are a few different versions of those hilarious events (Townsville 'siege'), I believe the captain had steam coming out of his ears.  The only sure is Carey was sent to New Guinea immediately afterward! I can let you know what  find out if you like. He signed his theses and books as "S. Warren Carey". As that is the most common citation I went with it. I was going to cheat and just use Carey, but his brother was in the unit, Z-Cars or whatever. Cheers, ☻ Fred|☝ discussion |✍  contributions  05:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to create a sub-page on the P-40's role in the Desert Air Force
Grant, I have left the following message on the "talk" page of the P-40 article. "Due to the extensive and substantive information provided in this part of the P-40 story, I would propose that a new article entitled P-40 service with the Desert Air Force be created and that a brief connecting section remain in place on the main article. I am asking for consensus before making this change." I would be interested to hear your reaction to this proposal. The ultimate result would be to move the main body of text into a full article of its own but leave a significant overview on the P-40 page as well as a wikilink. Bzuk 13:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Grant65, your comment, "Perhaps an article focused on the Air war in North Africa, 1940-43 would be better(?)" may be an appropriate alternative as the role of other aircraft as well as the P-40, along with commanders, strategies and other battle factors can be fully explored. Bzuk 19:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Luxembourg
I posted a query on Lexbourgish Wikipedia for help. I suspect some of the dead were in the German Army. Lets hope they help us.--Woogie10w 10:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

HMAS Sydney 1934
Hiya. Regarding the image twice, I liked the caption from it and couldn't see how this would fit into the article proper, but I also needed an image for the infobox, but didn't want a long caption in there. I guess a new image is needed (as I said in the edit summary), and I haven't looked around to get one yet. Nomadtales 06:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi again
I've ordered Firkins from Hesperian Press, so thanks for the tip for that. Small world: I have a photo of Rosemarie Beattie as a child (labelled Rose Mary Beatty, but I'm assuming it's the same person) with her mother at the races in Jesselton, taken pre-1937. Could I ask you a massive favour, Grant? Is there any chance you could email me a scan of the article about Ivan Quartermaine? I know it's a bit cheeky - but if you don't ask ....! I will get round to adding my material about the Sandakan Death Marches at some point. I have the script of a radio play about the events that was broadcast in Australia knocking about somewhere, so when I find that I'll add the ref too. Cheers Jasper33 13:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

World Cup
Congradulations on your win, that ending must have been interesting to watch--Woogie10w 17:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Manfred von Richthofen
Regarding your edit here: As Justanother pointed out, you're welcome to reword it, but please don't just remove referenced material without explanation on the talk page. —AldeBaer 16:42, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the rewording by Justanother and you, looks good now. —AldeBaer 11:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Revert on 7th Division
I just want to point out my backing for what you reverted as as a myth. FACT: Wavell's headquarters instructed the censors to delete references to fighting in the Syria campaign from public releases. Fact: The Australian Official Historian stated that the reports on the campaign sent to australia stated there was "only slight and often no resistance". In the book "A Bastard of a place" by Peter Brune he says that the reason for the censorship, according to interviews with those involved, was that "the French must only be seen as a gallant ally under the heel of Nazi Germany". Maybe I could have worded the edit better but it is relevant and factual. Regards. Wayne 02:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thx for the quick reply. Peter Brune is a leading military historian and his books (including the one I mentioned) are used in other WP military articles so should be a reliable source. I will modify the edit as well by replacing "to remove mention of their actions " with "to minimise their actions" as it better reflects that not everything was censored. Cheers Wayne 11:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ozzies, ozzies everywhere
Just took a browse through some of your work - geez Louise, you know your military history. You've written some great articles - I learnt a lot reading through New Guinea Campaign and the battle links. Great work!

Cheers,

Paxse 10:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)
The April 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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P-38 Lightning in the Southwest Pacific
I made corrections to the P-38 Lightning article in reference to your removal of the paragraph and have created a discussion in reference to your edit on the discussion page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:P-38_Lightning#P-38_in_the_PTO.2FCBI -Signaleer 08:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Italy & Others
I agree with statement that Italy, Hungary and Romania were minor players on the Allies side of WWII. That being said, there were all Axis powers that switched during the conflict. Big contributions or no, I believe that makes them historically significant, and that they did move from Axis to Allis is an interesting and important fact. I am interested in you thoughts on what overshadows the historically significance that marks the beginning of the decline of the Axis bloc? Aarin 15:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Melbourne
I just noticed you added it to your user page. It was announced a week or so ago that its going to be the production base for The Pacific, the successor to Band of Brothers and most of the shooting will be done in other parts of Australia. From what they'e said, it looks like the story will focus on the 1st Marine Div.Grant | Talk 15:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I look forward to checking it out when it gets shown here on Japanese cable TV. I was in Melbourne on a work trip so I didn't get to see as much of it and the surrounding area as I wanted to. Cla68 22:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Tech Q
A definate A. manglesii, nice picture to you got any native flowers to add. I'd also recommend User:Hesperian for plant id he's way better at them than me, I always defer to his id's. Gnangarra 12:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Football (word)
Sorted it out for better English. Londo06 16:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the ball-in hand skill bit is relevant when used in the northern hemisphere to describe a players ability. Reckon that would be beneficial to the understanding of the term when used in the UK. Londo06 07:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Playing good football in the northern hemisphere relates to playing an intense game, fast with real depth in the attacking play, the guile mixed in with real skill. Some people not fully in tune with the British game may think that the term footballing skill when used in association with rugby league may be referring to the short or long kicking games of the teams. I believe it enhances the article, bringing an understanding to those who do not watch the game. Londo06 07:40, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

New Zealand
Why did you remove New Zealand from the Allied Leaders of World War II article? What do the other dominions have the New Zealand doesn't? I want you to put it back. If you don't want to, we can remove Australia, Canada and South Africa as well, right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Farkas János (talk • contribs) 23:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

State of Origin
Regarding your question: From an objective POV, how can SOO be a higher standard than Aus-GB test matches? I can understand why you'd ask that. It must seem strange. And I'm not disputing your edit. Even the Poms and Kiwis would probably admit that the NSW and QLD sides could beat their test sides (The Kiwis are currently much stiffer competition than GB by the way). Even though the Australian Kangaroos comprise the best of both the SOO teams, they don't usually have to play their best football in test matches, often cruising to victory in 2nd gear. Whereas for QLD to beat NSW or vice versa, they have to play at their absolute best, and usually do. This is obvious when you watch alot of rugby league and you see the SOO. I know there's alot of hype about how tough and spectacular SOO is, but it's not totally unfounded.--Jeff79 01:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I count five whitewashes against the Poms in the last 10 Ashes series against one in the last 10 SOO series. Play above themselves they might, but they don't often test the Kangaroos these days. New Zealand are harder to beat. Unfortunately, these days rugby league doesn't enjoy the same degree of international competitiveness that rugby union does.--Jeff79 06:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

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Strange behaviour by Orphanbot
Orphanbot is insisting on placing an "Image has no source information" at Image:Southwest Pacific Area.JPG, which I uploaded today. However, I used when I uploaded it. I have consulted Image use policy and can find no reason for what the bot is doing. Please advise. Grant | Talk 06:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


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