User talk:Grant65/Archive Nov06-Feb07

Can you help please?
Knowing your knowledge of WWII as well as your neutral position I would be glad if you help to resonlve a conflict that occurred in Josef Stalin. User Encyclopaedia Editing Dude contiuously removes links to the Soviet archives, declassified in early 1990s from Josef Stalin, insterting links to an eyewitness interview made by BBC and other biased and/or non-reliable sources. He refuses to talk and removes my comments from his talk page. He also said that he will break any rules to restore his version. I requested RFC on this topic and in two weeks received only one comment (in favor of my version). I do not know what to do next with such behavior.--Nixer 17:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand your position. I guess the problem is that this person does not see the state archival material on the deportations as credible and/or a true reflection of what actually occurred. Another, independent source from a credible background (e.g. a western university) which backs up the archival material would probably resolve the problem. By the way, I would avoid using anti-orange.com.ua as a source if possible. I don't know Russian/Ukrainian but I find some things about it disturbing (e.g. http://anti-orange.com.ua/about/foto/ ). Grant65 | Talk 18:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * First, I do not think a western university would be unbiased in this case. The link to anti-orange site really could be removed. The main piont is the real order on the deportations from the archive, which is continuously being removed by Encyclopaedia Editing Dude. The link points to the order in English and the anti-orange site was added to give a link to a Russian version (which I agree is not necessary here). The third source is a direct link to a Russian archive (non-URL).--Nixer 18:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The question in my mind remains, "do the documents reflect what happened in reality?" I'm not saying a western university (etc) would be unbiased &mdash; no-one is unbiased &mdash;  but if you could find a credible non-Soviet reference, saying that events occurred as described in the Soviet documents, it would give you a rock solid case for their inclusion.  Grant65 | Talk 19:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not say the events occurred preciesly as it was ordered (it is probably impossible to prove now). My point is to present how it was intended to conduct and that some people contest that it was conducted preciesly as it was ordered (also with sources). By the way, it is important to point out specifically in the article about Stalin what he actually ordered as it can characterize him or give to him or out of him responsibility over the consequesces.--Nixer 19:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I know where you are coming from. These kind of debates very often take place in a historical/contextual "vacuum", which makes them appear quite different than they appeared to the historical agents at the time. The problem is that if the actual events vary significantly from the order/plan, then it is easy for critics to say that the order was worthless, disingenuous, cynical, (etc) and decide that it's not worth mentioning. I'm still thinking about this. Grant65 | Talk 15:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Axis naval activity in Australian waters nominated for FA status
Hi Grant. I have just self nominated Axis naval activity in Australian waters for Featured Article status. If you'd like to vote or make a comment, the nomination page is: Featured article candidates/Axis naval activity in Australian waters‎ Cheers, --Nick Dowling 22:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Changi Prison.
Sorry mate, it looks as though my vandalism reversion and your rewrite had a bit of a head-on. :-) My apologies. Johnmc 07:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Broome attack art
It might be out of order - but I have put in my copy of prime in the refs for the moment - I'll try to check further - I do hope you dont mind - SatuSuro 15:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you think they are diff? or was he getting people to print it with diff titles? SatuSuro 15:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Apols- shouldve checked first - the liswa/state ref cat has:-

Prime, Mervyn W. Title 	Broome's one day war : the story of the Japanese raid on Broome, 3rd March 1942 Published 	Broome, W.A : Shire of Broome [for Broome Historical Society], 1992. Descript'n 	45 p. : ill., 1 map, ports ; 22 cm. Note 	Cover title. Updated and expanded edition of W.A.'s Pearl Harbour, published 1985. Some copies include Addendum (April 2000)

Oh well now we know :) SatuSuro 15:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What I enjoy is it - always - leads back to the diamonds saga and smirnoff - and every journo and their dog sniff it out on such a regular basis! SatuSuro 15:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the PK AFV lead seems to hide the story rather than let on that you've actually done a good job on that as well! You should alert it more than that I reckon!SatuSuro 15:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Excellent response - the redirects should solve it very well! SatuSuro 07:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Dont get me started! I think the redirect issue one is important - I mean I dismantle some to become disambig pages :) and  I think of the stupidest combinations just to keep up with everything - but sometimes I forget to make them...   I  dont know if youve seen the australian history project proposal - or the australian maritime history one that moondyne has a thingo for - but I would be v interested in your response to either or their placing SatuSuro 15:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: New football collage
Hi Grant. Your new collage is definitely an improvement in many ways. It's a pity we haven't got better quality pics for some of the codes. The one suggestion I'd make is to ask whether you can fiddle the brightness/contrast/something in the American football part to make it the players more distinct at thumbnail size. Whether that works or not, I'd definitely suggest it on the talk page. JPD (talk) 14:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Freo jumper history
Grant, I think we should retain the jumper sponsor history. It is helpful in identifing old photos and I think a valid part of Fremantle's history. It is also the sort of thing that the club nor AFL will ever publish, as once a new sponsor jumps on board the old sponsors are erased from all memory! The jumper graphics were great, but I guess we need to check with Mero about having the copyright properly assigned. The-Pope 02:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Football image
Hi Grant, feel free to check out Rugby union images on the commons to look for a decent one. Hope that helps. Cheers. Cvene64 07:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good Grant. Glad to have helped out. Cheers. Cvene64 14:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Soccer templates
Hi Grant. We've a bit of a problem. Chuq has been creating new templates in an attept to breach the football(soccer) rule. AS I admit that the templates that are for the worldwide and Asian listings must say "football" the ones for our national team and for soccer in Australia, should read, "football(soccer)". Chuq has made the following templates, Template:AUS fb natteams, and Template:AUS fb general as just saying "football". Every time I edit it, he changes it back. The national football (soccer) team page was the agreed term, so I feel it should be the same with the templates. Please help. Urgeback 10:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Urgeback/58.x, please don't use talk pages to go around "recruiting" in this manner in private - if you want to discuss this naming convention, please do it at more public location, such as Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia) - which I have specifically set up for this purpose, and I have posted a link to on your (IP address's) talk page. Grant, if you haven't seen the page (I have posted a link to it on various football-related Wikiprojects) feel free to contribute there as well, of course.  Btw, I'm not sure what "football (soccer)" rule you are talking about, as there isn't one - that is the purpose of the naming conventions proposal. -- Chuq 12:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Chuq, see Talk:Australia national soccer team/Archive 1. I have to agree with Urgeback. There is a very good reason why Football (soccer) is the name used in Wikipedia. That is, there are several other codes of football around the world, and the followers of all of these use the word "football" by itself to refer to their games. In Australia, in spite of FFA's attempt at re-branding, "football" generally refers to Australian rules football or rugby league football. I think the templates should reflect that. Grant65 | Talk 13:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have read that discussion and many others, over and over. Hence the link above. (There was a typo in the link that caused it to appear as a redlink, I have fixed that now).  These templates will ONLY be used on pages about association football, so there is no confusion. -- Chuq 20:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My response is at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia). Grant65 | Talk 03:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you for the Barnstar. I look foward to continuing to work with you and everyone else in the future on the Pacific War articles. Thank you, also, for the comments on my proposed idea for the Solomon Islands campaign. Cla68 06:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Gernika
You are ignoring also several policies with this reverse move of Gernika-Lumo (official name) to "Guernica (city)". First of all, Gernika is not a city but a town (by charter and by size), second it is not such a relevant entity as to be worried about it. It's not Rome or Moscow, just a minor town of some 10,000 people. Third: I bet you didn't even worry to fix the links that I painfully fixed in the other direction. Fourth: you bypassed the WikiProject Basque. Fifth you are biased from your viewpoint of military history. Sixth: your opinion is just your opinion and nothing more. Seventh: Guernica (Spanish spelling) refers primarily to the painting of Picasso.

I would automatically revert but some further edits have been mad, so I will start a RFC. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sugaar (talk • contribs) 16:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

You are being a Disruptive Editor
If you have something to discuss, do it. But you can't revert a move that was done with full consensus. Next time I will have no choice but opening an RfC on your behaviour. --Sugaar 14:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Help with military history
Hi Grant65, I noticed you're involved in some military history articles here, so I'm wondering if you could help me with something. The Battle of Nui Le was the last major battle fought by Australian troops in Vietnam in 1971, I know that the Australian army suffered about 35 casualties. However, beyond that I couldn't find anymore information regarding the action, I would like to know whether you have any reliable sources which could help me? Thank you in advance.Canpark 07:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Australian maritime history
Hi! thought you might be interested to know about this recent project start SatuSuro 08:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Western Australia
More WikiProject spam! This is another new WikiProject. Want to be involved? Hesperian 11:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. Never too sure who I've told and who I aint: I am Snottygobble with a username change. Hesperian 11:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry I overlooked your contributions and standing. Glad hesp notified you.  New around here (WP) but similar vintage to yourself. Hope you can bring your experience to our new project.  Regards Fred.e 12:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Western Australia
As you are a member of WP:WA, I would like to invite you to add a userbox I created for the project. It looks like this;

Cheers!-- M  W  Johnson  23:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Image:Football4.png
hi, I change Image:Football4.png license PD to GFDL. Because Image:Football iu 1996.jpg Image:Rugby union scrummage.jpgImage:Gateshead vs limoux.jpg is GFDL--Shizhao 08:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Battle of Driniumor River
I found this article which appears to be part of the New Guinea campaign, but I wasn't sure where it fits in the overall campaign. Thus, I'm bringing it to your knowledgeable attention. Cla68 22:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I've started a stub for Lieutenant General Stanley Savige. Cla68 06:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Bougainville campaign
For the large Japanese counterattack, the sources, including Gailey's book, refer to it as either "Bougainville counterattack" as you point out, or "Battle for Bougainville." I thought Battle for Bougainville sounded better, so I was going to go with that title. But, I'm fine either way. Cla68 13:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. Cla68 22:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

re: Cowra breakout
Hi Grant. I think that a citation for the claim that it was the biggest breakout ever is needed. Personally, I suspect that the biggest breakout in modern history would have been on the East Front of WW2 in 1941 where the Germans couldn't deal with the huge number of Russian POWs they captured. --Nick Dowling 10:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Royal Historical Society of Victoria
This "fly by night operation" is now a 'stubbie', to support your position in future debates. Regards Fred.e 23:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * LOL? Not a T.L.A I'm aware of. Little gesture for vic wikers with new stub - might get that group involved. P.S. seen comic page at Signpost?  Fred.e 18:17, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

ancient history
Please see talk:history of football (soccer) Jooler 18:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Bounce Jooler 22:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Mob Football
An "inslut"? Seriously. Mediaeval Football refers to a time period. Mob football predates the Middle ages. This is my point. Think about it.

Reply to talk item
Is another email or two! SatuSuro 14:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I am just goint to put this here. Grant, you said obvious errors. You should have taken some time to look up things before you "corrected" them. The changes that were added to the WASP article included the correction of Little Ivies which is not used simply for Williams and Amherst (father and sister attended Williams and my father taught there for many years), but for the a group of schools in the NESCAC as well as for the "sister schools", of which only Barnard exists as a separate entity. This wholly informal phrase has been extended over time to also include schools such as Claremont schools in California, etc.

Secondly the reason why I stated that American institutions were began by this class is because they were- for example the cheif reason for the Ivy designation has to do with the fact that all of these schools started before the Revolutionary War except Cornell (I'm a Cornellian btw, Go Big Red). And again with your reference to legacy admissions as defining the New England boarding schools (also an Exonian) it is simply not true. While legacy plays and has played a role in admissions these schools are highly competitive, employed the first entrance examinations (which still exist today) and have had a harsh sink or swim mentality that has been the fodder of many a novel. And at least for the better part of a century these schools have offered scholarships and had minority enrollment when that could not be said of many other institutions of American society. Oh, btw, in these schools we play the whole gambit of sports, not just sailing. (WHERE did the author get that assertion from besides watching Gilligan's Island???)

God knows how you arrived at the idea that the term "WASP" was applied only in New England and that it only referred to "old money" (though money always plays a role, doesn't it). It is more of an issue of background rather than simply money. It is also important to not confuse that issue when one is speaking of marriage, social behavior, etc.

As long as you are referring to New England however- That most WASPS in New England have been Conservative Republicans is patently false. The Republican Party until the last few decades of the 20th century was the liberal party of America, and it has been the New England WASPS who have been seen as progressive or even radical in their stand on slavery, Native American rights (Harriet Beecher Stowe and Ralph Waldo Emerson come to mind), support for the rights of Blacks following the Civil War and affirmation of Equal Opportunity since. One might even remember the connotations of the term "Rockefeller Republican", as a progressive, fiscally conservative Republican (even if the example doesn't hold up to scrutiny).

I could go on here but I think the general point is made. It would be advisable to just correct my (admittedly horrible and unintended) mistake of changing a quote on the page and urge me to cite where other information comes from; especially as you don't seem entirely familiar with the subject. Perhaps you are extrapolating the Australian experience and applying it to the U.S. I dunno.

South West Pacific Area
You reverted some changes I made to the South West Pacific Area page (mostly corrections to factual errors where names or ranks or dates or all three were wrong) on the grounds that I had linked to the ranks to the main page on Generals - as is the way it is done elsewhere in the Wikipedia.

I feel strongly that abbreviations should not be used. It costs little to put the names in full and the abbreviations are confusing to someone without the appropriate background knowledge, which in turn they cannot obtain without the links. Moreover, the proper abbreviation varies from country to country. What is Lt-Gen in one country could be Lt Gen in another and LTG in a third.

If there is an agreed format for the Australian Military pages, please let me know. I will be happy to correct.

PS: I have merged the page with the new data. I hope that this meets with your approval.

Hawkeye7 02:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

North Melbourne - Kangaroos
I've started a discussion topic on the talk page of the AFL article on this subject. I'll be notifying the other editors of it as I think this does need to be sorted out properly and everything laid out on the table. CURSE OF FENRIC home talk usage 21:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Frank John Partridge
I am not saying you are incorrect but who were the other CMF/militia VC recipients? Thanks for your time. Albatross2147 08:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks - Rattey another forgotten hero (by most anyway) Albatross2147 00:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Project Invite
Hi there! Thought you might be interested in WikiProject Notability. We're currently recruiting help to clear a massive backlog (5000+ articles), and we need your help! If you have a spare moment, please join and sort an article or tell your friends. Diez2 16:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Zakisan5
Hi, I would like to know if you could refer me the name of a mediator who could stop the vandalism Zakisan5 is doing on the article Racism. Having tried without result to put his propaganda on Japanese war crimes, Zakisan5 is doing the same thing for many days on Racism. However the people who watch this article are not as well informed as you on the subject and I have to reverse each day his stuff about "Contrary to the evil Germans who committed the genocide of the Jews, Japaneses did not commit genocide but just fought war against their neighbors"... Thanks. --Flying tiger 01:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

British Solomon Islands Protectorate
I appreciate the effort to improve the article's accuracy. I put "United Kingdom" in the infobox because Martin Clemens, if I understand right, was actually born and raised in the United Kingdom (Scotland) and was acting as the UK's government official for Guadalcanal Island under the commissioner- William Sydney Marchant's direction. If British Solomon Islands Protectorate is a more accurate way of describing the situation then that's how we'll leave it. Cla68 05:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good start on the article. Perhaps there's a dusty tome out there somewhere that documents the organization and history of the British Solomon Islands military forces.  It might be in a book that documents the military or civil history of all of the UK's protectorates in the Pacific like the Solomons, Gilberts, etc.  I'll look around on the Internet to see if such a book is available.  I believe there's an old multi-volume history, published in the UK, that documents the UK's efforts in the Pacific War that mainly concentrates on the Southeast Asia theater, but perhaps it has some info on the Pacific area also.  I've found that there's some trial and error involved in finding the right book.  I ordered Eric Feldt's, "The Coastwatchers" from an online seller in the U.S. only to find out that all of the U.S. versions of that book are severely condensed.  So, I ordered the book from an online seller in Australia and had it shipped directly to my house here in Japan and it was the full version. Cla68 23:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Punk Rock
I've sandboxed the article to tweak the structure re your concerns. As you have suggested, a 'proto/pre punk' section is needed (ironically I've been a Pere Ubu for more yrs than I care to remember), but I want to balance it out with a broad survey of early/mid seventies scenes. I'll work on this for a bit, and get your openion before I move back to mainspace. There is no need for us to fall out over this; I'm as interested as you are in getting the chronological order correct, and I certainly don't want to prejudice against any particular scenes. + Ceoil 23:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Updated. Can you take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions. + Ceoil 20:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow
Just tagged the wp wa on the talk page of the manikins - I'm very impressed - we need more stuff like that- too many born after 1986 eds on the three areas of possible issue ( I really think we should put hidden text in w.a., perth, w.a. and music in w.a. to put their eds only  on the list of w.a. musos)   - hey we need that depth of knowledge - I know an oldie from those days and he is a bit sad when he talks about the 60s/70/s guys - so many dead from drugs :(  - I will have to trawl my stuff out about sid rumpo and bakery when I have my shed sorted ! SatuSuro 07:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah I reckon at least a mnetion - what do you think about the hidden text to stop serial 'i miust put my favourite into perth wa' idea? SatuSuro 23:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Football
Thanks for the note re reporting User:VNistelrooy9 to WP:AIV. I love his comment that the warning tag was "retarded". I don't mind him calling me retarded, it's water off a duck's back but there was no need to insult the poor tag! Malla nox  04:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Grant65, regarding your report on User:VNistelrooy9, I wouldn't call his edits simple vandalism, which is what WP:AIV is for. I suggest you take a look at Three-revert rule to see how to deal with this user - I believe this policy applies to this user. --Deathphoenix ʕ 04:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm aware of that, that's why I pointed you to Three-revert rule. It gives you the info for reporting 3RR violations (specifically, report them here). --Deathphoenix ʕ 04:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you referring to 3RR. Look closely at the history -- VNistelrooy9 has only reverted twice. There is no 3RR violation, but there are clear grounds for admin action. Grant65 | Talk 04:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the user was edit-warring, not vandalising. WP:AIV is for reporting cases of simple vandalism, and VNestelrooy9 was not engaged in simple vandalism. I might also classify his edits as a content dispute (see Resolving disputes for more information), but once again, not simple vandalism. --Deathphoenix ʕ 04:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, post to WP:ANI, WP:AIV is for cases of simple vandalism, when an admin can look at the page and immediately tell that it is vandalism. The fact that I looked through the contribs and thought it was either 3RR or a content dispute should show you that this is not a case of simple vandalism, and is therefore not a clearcut case that WP:AIV was designed to cover. --Deathphoenix ʕ 04:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hesperian has picked up on the latest revert - maybe you need to speak to him about all this! SatuSuro 05:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Salamaua-Lae campaign
In the Salamaua-Lae campaign, change the dates in the infobox. --Ineffable3000 07:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

British Empire Casualties in WW I
I have the 1922 and 1931 UK official reports with statistics on Empire casualties, there is plenty of data in these books for a seperate article on British Empire Casualties in WW I. The 1922 report has a serious credibility problem since the detailed schedules for the various theatres of war do not agree to the summary page listing 908,371 war dead. The 1931 report was prepared in a professional manner, the data was well organized, however casualties were listed for the Empire as a whole by theatre of war by year, losses were not broken out for the individual nations--Woogie10w 13:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Australian national football team
It seems these soccer fanactic just cant leave it alone. They've taken back the Australian national football team for themselves and changed it to theirs. It seems they just cant leave it alone and are convinced that the term football is just for them.

Sorry for late notice
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/WA Meetup. Hesperian 02:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)