User talk:Groteth

Be careful
Do you want me to open an SPI on you? Article creation is a legitimate activity here, and your weird obsession with counting the volume on my subpages is really sick. You can easily get an indef block for your activities against me and criticism of my legitimate article creation process. Stay far away from me, both here and elsewhere. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 21:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Rabbit holes
Moved from Talk:Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections by Valjean. It's better to deal with this on a private talk page than derail the discussion there.


 * Valjean, what Giuliani rabbit hole are you referring to? I've followed this affair closely and don't remember any of them being fixated with any Giuliani developments except a one day Greenwald blitz where he corrected many stories that spread about a story that was retracted and he was correct, whatever his intent, in pointing out the error. On the other hand you have about 350,000 bytes with hundreds of edits on issues like Kompromat or pee tape. Would that qualify as a rabbit hole? Are you a conspiracy theorist? I'm not saying those aren't avenues worthy of exploration but it's curious how freely you dismiss others. You said, "That was a Trump operation to create fake news..." Would it be inaccurate to say pee tape was a, "a Clinton operation to create fake news." Was the idea that Trump in the pocket and coordinating with Russia a conspiracy theory? I'm not saying not worthy of investigation. For instance republicans fell for a conspiracy theory that Secretary Clinton sold us out by selling uranium to Russia. It wasn't that there was no basis at all to the story it just wasn't true their nefarious interpretation. She didn't sell out her country and that is commonly called a conspiracy theory. Groteth (talk) 20:06, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Groteth, let me stop you right there. Do not bring me into this. "Keep the discussions focused on the topic of the talk page, rather than on the editors participating." Seriously, I doubt you want to get blocked. Stick to the topic and not other editors and their interests.
 * Trump tried to deflect attention from the Russians and his cooperation with them by attacking Clinton and Steele, and then trying to pressure Zelenskyy in a quid pro quo attempt to create a fake narrative that would place blame on Trump's electoral opponent, Joe Biden. Giuliani was the main figure in those attempts, and he was easily played by Russian intelligence. Some of the agents are Giuliani's friends! The latest incident in that saga is the charges against an FBI informant who lied about Joe and Hunter Biden's ties to Ukraine and Burisma.
 * The Trump narratives are false and keep falling apart. Read these articles, as everything said by RS is found there:
 * Trump–Ukraine scandal (that led to Trump's impeachment)
 * Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory (a series of false allegations against Joe Biden)
 * Conspiracy theories related to the Trump–Ukraine scandal (Russia's and Trump's attempts to frame Ukraine for Russia's interference in U.S. elections)
 * Russia investigation origins counter-narrative (attempts to falsely blame the Steele dossier as the trigger for the investigations into Russian interference, when it was Trump's own, and his campaign's, actions that raised suspicions and got them into trouble)
 * The current United States House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family is a continuation of GOP efforts to gin up false conspiracy theories against Biden and blame anybody but Trump and Russia for all the misery. This kind of abuse of Congress happens when Congress critters live in fear of Trump (and all the dirty secrets he has on them) and believe Trump's false election fraud conspiracy theories.
 * One would think they would learn from what happened to Fox News in the Dominion case, where Fox paid $787 million to Dominion Election Systems for telling election fraud lies about Dominion. ALL the Fox people, from top to bottom, were shown (by discovery) to have nothing but disdain for Trump, did not believe him, did not believe he won the election, did not believe there was any election fraud, and believed Biden won the election fairly and squarely, yet Fox pushed the lies to stay in Trump's favor and keep from losing viewers and advertisers. Anyone who believes and defends Trump ends up going down rabbit holes.
 * Oh, lest I forget, that would be a big YES..... It would indeed "be inaccurate to say pee tape was 'a Clinton operation to create fake news.'" Clinton had nothing to do with the actual creation of the dossier. That's a conspiracy theory. The alleged pee tape incident was not a creation of Steele. His sources just reported an old rumor circulating in Russia that began its existence right after Trump left Moscow in early November 2013. Michael Cohen testified he learned of it then and told Trump, so Trump has known about the pee tape allegation all this time, and has just focused his ire on the dossier. Trump never told any investigators that he had known about that rumor for several years. There was a closed circle, with many people, who knew about the tapes and tried to find and catch and kill them. True or not, neither Clinton nor Steele had anything to do with the creation of that rumor. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 21:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)