User talk:Gurch/Archive 7

Being an admin
THANKS! Your blocking of this bad guy made me happy--or am I allowed to say that? And your GurchBot looks fantastic: I'm jealous! Scoutersig 18:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
On behalf of WikiProject North Dakota, I thank you for your rapid cleanup and block of 165.234.100.1 today. -- AlexWCovington  (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * On a related note, is it possible to delete the vandalism from the edit history? I believe the vandal has been using revert features to speed their efforts.  -- AlexWCovington  (talk) 18:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism - An Apology.
On behalf of my sister, I'd just like to apologize for the pointless and immature edits made to the Wikipedia page on the Alps. She has absolutely no concept of where to click and where not to click, and thought it was harmless fun.

Thank you for reverting the page. 82.13.75.71 20:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Reblock of 72.21.etc.
Go to the site I've deleted from this IP's talk page and type in www.whatismyip.org and I'm guessing you'll forgive me for undoing your block and reblocking indef. RadioKirk (u|t|c)  21:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't get how this is supposed to work
You recently deleted my submission on David Burt. I have never submitted an entry to Wikipedia before. This submission on Burt was written for a class I am taking; I am required by the professor to post it here. Can you explain to me (without sending me to another link) what I need to do to get this back up? ThanksLarsdebo 21:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Devhook
I noticed you deleted a page I created entitled "Devhook". I don't have a problem with that, but I don't remember making the page. Do you happen to remember any specifics of the contents of the page that might jog my memory and help me make sure someone else wasn't using my account to make that page? Thanks. Unknownwarrior33 22:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC) Gurch wrote:
 * Hi. Sorry, I should have checked before leaving the message, as it won't mean a lot to you. I've checked the deleted history, what actually happened was you created a redirect at Devhook (to PlayStation Portable homebrew), months ago, which someone replaced with spam. I deleted the article, read your name off the bottom of the history and left the message, without noticing that you'd only made a redirect. So don't worry, your account hasn't been compromised. I'll notify the real author now (you can re-create the redirect if you want). Again, my apologies – Gurch 22:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it, but thanks for letting me know. It seems like whenever something big happens, whether it's big with the general public like the death of Steve Irwin or big with a specific community like the release of a new version of Devhook, the corresponding page on Wikipedia gets vandalized.  Obviously things like Devhook don't generate as much as more widely followed things, but clearly it still happens.Unknownwarrior33 22:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment from 89.241.131.95
hi, i didnt leave any message on that page. Actually i hadnt even been visitng any wikipedia pages for long time so stop accusing me mate!

Wikipedia need to change the way they allow edits because IP addresses are shared sometimes and blocking someone according to IP Address is not exactly fair when some plunker from someother place shares same IP as me and goes about vandalising stuff! – 89.241.131.95 00:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Investigate 9/11 Page
I apologize for not fleshing out the article I created on the Investigate 9/11 article. When I've gathered more resources, will it be alright to re-introduce information on this group? --Ozgod 03:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Global Volunteers
I'm glad you're satisfied with the rewrite so far. These nonprofit articles can be very promotional when they're started (as they often are) by an employee or strong supporter, but there's a lot of notable work that they do, so it's good when we can cover it properly. I appreciate your note on my talk page. It's really encouraging when effort gets noticed. --Siobhan Hansa 04:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment from 217.74.211.114
For Gurch: I have never edited, nor read, nor made plans to read the article on the flag of Morocco, so your message regarding vandalism needs to be directed elsewhere. – 217.74.211.114 16:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

fag
dont delete fantasy nerds – SWhalen07 16:35, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Alan Gillett
Thanks for the deletion and protection on this article. I see that the same editor created the article three times in the last 24 hours, and I was tired of reverting his vandalism. Now, to get all the images he posted deleted as well, and finally block him altogether. One step at a time. ---Charles 17:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Off-road vehicle
So how do you get copyrighted, Non-NPOV material removed from a talk page? I have tried to delete it, and it gets put back. I ask for a rational to keep and get the response that Wikipedia policies and guidelines don't apply. I talk until the other editor stops talking, then delete it again, and get threatened with being blocked for vandalism. I am confused, please help. Maybe I am just completely wrong but I thought that Wikipedia policies and guidelines applied to all of of Wikipedia not just articles. Jeepday 20:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response, It has been helpful Jeepday 22:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've responded, provided policy, later explained in detail on which policy to ref , and have responded to jeepday after he disregards my explanations. User will not give up until valid talk entries he disagrees with are removed (which user Loperco requested assistance on and talk was not deleted ). It doesn’t matter how I explain myself or cite policy, the user acts if I did not provide valid reasons for rv talk page blanking and then ref different policy while talking from the 3rd person . First the user changed Loperco's talk entry and added quote by adding bigot, then cited the talk entry was pov as if it was an article and then used his own suggestion as consensus for removal. Then it was sending to history (deleting)as if archiving , then its speedy delete and now that you have stated that discussion should not be deleted, the users current reason for talk page blanking is copyvio  and contends that I'm blindly rv his deletion under the premise that policy doesnt apply . Also, when did citing source and quoting a 30yr old letter to an editor in discussion become a copyvio? Or is it just another attempt to censor valid discussion that both jeepday and I disagree with but is valid nonetheless? For this reason I have rv the blanking just as I do on all my other vandal patrols. I'm sorry this has ended up on your talk page but this user will not give up and I needed to reply to his statements about me. Since you are an admin, I ask for help and guidance on this issue as its becoming exhausting. --I already forgot 01:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. No matter the outcome, it’s very much appreciated.--I already forgot 01:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Speedy of 338171
I had put for a reason, and you deleted before I had made the argument on the talk page. Please read there, and don't delete it again. Send to Redirects for Deletion if you don't like it. Fys. &#147;Ta fys aym&#148;. 23:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Flag of Morocco
This IP is shared by a number of random people from Eastern Denmark; if one of them has vandalised the flag of Morocco, I'm sorry, but I can't do anything about it. I always edit wikipedia as Complainer, never as an anonymous user (I am doing so now only so that you know what I am talking about). – 217.74.211.114 23:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi.
Hi. I decided to start the heading out with "Hi", because you did the same with me.

And before I do begin, don't forget to go to bed. It's 23. Humans need sleep.

I was messaged 2 before you did by a 37 year old man who calls himself "Charles". He messaged me, I assume, because he thinks I cared. He first requested that my article be deleted, and again for another one. I will confess that I did not read the "Stub" rules, but I had reasoning for why I created those articles. I created them to start them, rather than conceive them. I thought Wikipedia.org was about people editing articles, not 37 year old men named "Charles" who requests topics be deleted minutes after it was created. Therefore, I was rather angry. Not because I was just held down by a loser, but because I really, really saw no reason in the act being committed.

I am not complaining about him, I am simply asking why a certain amount of information was needed. I wish to know why one cannot create an entire article, then have someone break it down, rather than add to it and let the site grow a tad more. Please, tell me. – ExtregustheSubtle 23:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for user page devandalization
Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my user page. :) - Pingveno (  talk  |  contrib  ) 23:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Bigsister1306
Can you please take a look at this user's edit history? She has only created two articles today, but she has a penchant for removing speedy delete and prod tags from these articles. I tagged the article Drop Dead Records for speedy deletion, and then saw that she deleted the tag three times (it was placed again and again by two other editors). Now, I see that she has done the same on the Velvet Shadow article. I have placed a warning on her talk page, but I am not sure that is enough. If you have the time, can you take a look? Thanks. ---Charles 01:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick reply. I will keep my eye on her edits. ---Charles 01:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Oswaldo Koch
Please, let me know the reason for deleting my bio. from Wikipedia. As an engineer, scientist and creator of the Mastermoves system, I have contributed to the fitness and wellness of thousands of people.

Mastermoves, similar to Pilates or Yoga are techniques based on natural principles that require proper definition and clear understanding. Wikipidia is an exellent tool for achieving this goal. Please recondider my articles or let me know what are the changes that I need to consider for your approval.

I don't use Wikipidia to promote Matermoves. As "core training" www.mastermoves.com is top ranked with Google and most popular websites.

Thank you,

Oswaldo Koch

Thank you for your advice. I'll request to my lawyer to write and post my bio. Cheers, Oswaldo Koch – Oskoch 02:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

37 year old man named Charles here...
I was just reading your exchange with ExtregustheSubtle and, while I was amused by his comments, I really found your response quite impressive. I felt I should tell you that. Thanks for your great work. ---Charles 04:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

MUGEN NoE
Hi, I would like to ask you what specific changes I have to make in order wikipedia can publish the following content.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

Afantitis 10:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

MUGEN (MUGEN LSHG-CT-2005-005203) is a consortium of twenty four European organizations constituting a Network of Excellence on 'Functional Genomics in mutant mouse models as tools to investigate the complexity of human immunological disease' funding under the Sixth Research Framework Programme of the European Union, Coordinated by Alexander Fleming BSRC (Coordinator Dr. George Kollias). MUGEN aims to structure and shape a world-class network of European scientific and technological excellence in the field of 'murine models of human immunological disease', to advance understanding of the genetic basis of disease and to enhance innovation and translatability of research efforts. MUGEN's specific mission is to bring together different expertise from academic and industrial laboratories in order to study human immunological disease by integrating the participant's strengths in immunological knowledge with new approaches in functional genomics. In this way MUGEN expects to bring Europe a competitive advantage in the development of new diagnostic and therapeutic tools. In concert, MUGEN promotes training of young researchers and exploitation, dissemination and communication of scientific and technological excellence both within and outside of the network, to include all interested stakeholders in the area of human immunological diseases.

You think I'm a newbie
don't you? I specified its importance and it even has an article in another language. Many well respected contributors (and I'm one of them, being around since June) have edited that artice. Just google GahooYoogle. Please recreate it. It does meet those criteria. &#39;&#39;&#91;&#91;User:Kitia&#124;Kitia]] 18:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Casey Calvert prod
Thanks for help with the prod on that article. I tried to do one on J.T. Woodruff, but I wanna make sure that I did it right. Does it look correct?

Thanks.Human historian 19:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * ok. thanks. I forgot about that. Human historian 19:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Arbcom update
It's great; everybody loves it; but according to Doug Bell it doesn't work in IE; see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Vote. Thanks. Chick Bowen 19:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

you deleted my page 'Espresso Essential Scotland'
I would like to ask you how this violates your system? I clearly don't believe that I was trying to promote a company, as you said in your relevant message. Also, I wish to ask how you allow articles such as Kwik-Fit or Asda to remain, as I believe that is a company, isn't it? I wish you to take my comments on board and please reply me with an answer, because I am very annoyed and angry! – Jg gers906 20:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom tally
In case you haven't spotted it (it's not always clear), JzG has withdrawn from the ArbCom election, and your bot-generated table doesn't show this yet. If people update the page by striking through the candidate's name, will this mess up the bot, will the bot just write over it, or is it OK to do this? Carcharoth 15:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Please unlock user:Mr Lord
Please unlock this user user:Mr Lord for i want work to article Perry Rhodan and Atlan.I am very serious i want halp you to write a good article for Perry Rhodan dans this universe. You can contact me in fr:user:Mr Lord. Sorry for my bad english but i am french ;) Thx Mr Lord

ok thx you, i choose user:Gucky you are very speed lool. 193.55.175.15 15:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

i can't use Gucky :( but i take user:Perry Rhodan. Perry Rhodan 15:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you (again ^^) for your welcome in my user talk. You know a user who talk french and english? Because i am french (lol) Perry Rhodan 15:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment from Jg gers906
I disagree with you, and I am disgusted with your arrogance in your reply that you made to me. If the ASDA one doesn't violate rules, then what does? It still gives history behind ASDA, it still gives information where the first ASDA was, among other things. I want a second explanation, and this time, don't be an arrogant toad!

Also, who do you think you are, telling me what I did, and what I didn't do? You TOLD me that I was promoting a company, how dare you! I was just giving some information about the company, again, like the ASDA, or Morrisons ones! – Jg gers906 19:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: redirect
Yeah... You can kinda blame Tawker for that. He moved a userspace article to main namespace that wasn't even meant to be in main namespace, and I guess the redirect was an automatically-generated result of me moving it back. I'm deleting the redirect page (I totally forgot about it.) Thanks. -→ Buchanan-Hermit ™ / ?!  20:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Request
Come back! :-( Khoikhoi 06:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it was about IRC. I guess I see what you mean however. Please let me know if you change your mind. Khoikhoi 22:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem.
I didn't think it would stay, but it was worth a try :) Ral315 (talk) 01:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Radiant! needs to be struck, too. Ral315 (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for cleaning up the fun at my talk page, hehe :) - cohesion 06:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * And thanks from me, too. =) -- Gogo Dodo 07:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

New navbar template for Talk archives
Hello Gurch -- Thank you for the message you left on my Talk page re T:auto-taf-nav. I replied there, and have created a new template incorporating your suggestions. I would be grateful to receive your comments about it. -- Polaris999 07:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Luna...
Huh, looks pretty nifty. I should set one up for myself. ;) What "filter" are you using? Luna Santin 08:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

what are you on about?
you said that i edited a page and is going to be banned or something. It had something to do with to do with me apparently editing "blitzkreig" which i have no clue what on earth it is about.... hopefully it was an mistake – 203.27.156.146 10:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia
I was clearing the cache, the problem was more than one template was being vandalised. I didn't know which template was causing the image to display. I used a redirect as a preference to blanking the entire article, for the minute or so if would have taken to fix the template. Catchpole 13:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanx
Visit my site sometime and leave a comment —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GaryFrier (talk • contribs) 14:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Hrisi Avgi
I 'm sorry, but you haven't fixed the problem entirely. Three sourced sentences got deleted by SandyDancer, and you re-added only one of them. Thanks Mitsos 16:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Gurch, could you gain clarification from SandyDancer that these edits are uncontroversial and that deleting those "sourced sentences" was indeed an accident. Mitsos is on the opposite side to Sandy in an edit war. Cheers. -- Steel 16:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Good job
Wow, I just noticed... Good job. I'll probably put the Image: ones and maybe some of the Special: and MediaWiki: ones up on RfD at some point if they don't disappear before then. --Interiot 18:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Deleted page "Pipe Mania"
It seems from your comments that you thought the article was referring to one of the web based implementations of the game. It was actually supposed to be about Pipe Dream (video game). I haven't been active on wikipedia for a while so I don't remember if there was any content in that article that should have been merged, but at the very least I think that the page should serve as a redirect to Pipe Dream (video game).

If you weren't thinking about the web based implementations, then well... I fail to see how:
 * Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject.

is relevant in that case as a video game isn't any of those things.

Cheers -Aqua 01:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverted Edit
Cheers Mate, thanks for the revert of the dodgy edit to my discussion page.. LW77 04:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

AfD noms: Casey Calvert and J.T. Woodruff
I set up up AfD nom for both. It would be nice here your opinion on it. Click here for Casey Calvert and click here for J.T. Woodruff. Thanks. Human historian 06:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Hrisi Avgi
Please, are you going to fix the problem as I requested above? It's a question of WP's reliability. Thank you Mitsos 09:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I 'm sorry to annoy you again, but you placed the text in the wrong order. The paragraph you added goes together with the last sentence in the next paragraph, and it goes after the paragraph that appears next in the article as ot is now. Go to the article's history and see how it was before. Thanks Mitsos 10:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Instead of making a request, I 'm telling it to you. The last image in the Hrisi Avgi article is a cover of Hrisi Avgi's newspaper. Can you please write that it contains a quote by Ezra Pound (which is true). Thanks Mitsos 12:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Restoring sockpuppet pages
Can you please restore User:Braaad, since this user has been involved in sockpuppetry (see Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Braaad for details) --SunStar Nettalk 12:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Please restore the category as well, too, if you can. This user also had an RFC: Requests for comment/Braaad as well. --SunStar Nettalk 12:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My mistake suggesting the category was restored: he's already got Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Braaad, it was my mistake.

Thanks for the undeletion. --SunStar Nettalk 12:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Please also restore User: (talk • contribs) as well, this user is not just a vandal, but a community-banned editor too. Thanks for your work so far. --SunStar Nettalk 13:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Please also restore the talk page of this user too. Thanks for your help! --SunStar Nettalk 13:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It was only banned users, not vandal pages, thanks for your help! --SunStar Nettalk 13:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Real names
Well I think it's worth a debate. People often feel uncomfortable about things which longer discussion allows them to feel comfortable with. If the tens of thousands of wikipedians are mostly worried about death threats, I think there is a real problem. I have personally been involved in antifascist activity in France for twenty years, have regularly put my name and adress on leaflets etc, and I'm fine. I am concerned that a culture of automatic pseudonyms, which exists at present, has more negative effects than positive. We live in a world full of distrust, and I think it's good not to add to it; I am probably in a minority on this question, but perhaps I could found a category of "wikipedians who woudl prefer almost everyone ot use their real names." cheers Johncmullen1960 18:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:ELAC
Hi Gurch, you seem to be fairly knowledgeable about behind the scenes Wiki-Media, Wiki-stuff, and Wiki-details, etc., why don't you join our group? Your help would be appreciated. --Sadi Carnot 19:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi. I recognize this issue is an important one, and I appreciate the effort you're putting in. I'm don't really want to concern myself with article content or policy making, though; I tend to stick to administrative and maintenance tasks (vandalism patrol, speedy deletions, archive tagging, that sort of thing). Thanks for asking, though, and let me know if you need anything – Gurch 02:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I understand. Feel free to check in on us from time-to-time, your inputs are good.  I may come to you with questions here or there, if that's ok.  One question, for example, is what is the best way to find a couple of admins who would help in backing up (ELAC) long-article tag reverts?  This is a situation I've been in before. I'm interested in trying to streamline the process.  In other words, if an ELAC team member says “please don’t do that” but they repeat the action, it may then (depending on the situation) be helpful to have an admin say “please don’t do that”.  Some long articles are so tensioned up that, in many cases, the regulars can’t stand to see an extra-long article tag on their page.  This could potentially lead to a heated situation, which is what I don’t want.  Thus, say we tag an article (on the main page) that has been reported to us, but then the tag gets removed by an article regular per some random justification.  What protocols would you suggest to handle a situation like this? --Sadi Carnot 14:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If users persistently remove maintenance tags without explanation, despite being warned several times, this is usually considered vandalism; note this at Administrator intervention against vandalism and an administrator should take appropriate action fairly quickly. If users appear to be edit warring over whether or not the article should have a tag, try leaving a message at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents – Gurch 14:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, this sounds like a good plan. Talk later: --Sadi Carnot 14:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion requested ...
Hello Gurch -- I have posted a follow-up to our discussion re the navbar at User_talk:Polaris999. -- Polaris999 23:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC) Update: Please take a look at User talk:Polaris999/Archive 2 when you have a chance. Thanks! -- Polaris999 23:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S. The version you will see at the above link uses absolute positioning, but I have created another version that looks identical but uses relative positioning and I think that it will be preferable ... -- Polaris999 04:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

All complaints about the ArbCom vote summary table go here
Last update by GurchBot 2 was 11:52 UTC Jd2718 13:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You asked "Barely an hour and a half and I'm getting a message, do you guys just sit and watch it all day or something? and the answer is, something like that. I am grading papers, and when my attention starts to flag (once an hour or more sometimes), I check a number of things, including my watchlist. Lately yours and MathBot have sat on top, so when GurchBot was missing (I like the colors) I knew something was up. Or down. Whatever. Cheers Jd2718 15:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Radiant's entry in the bot table should be uncrossed. Still not clear if editing the table is all that is needed, or whether you need to adjust the bot as well. Carcharoth 00:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Several people have now tried to uncross his entry, and the bot overwrites them. Carcharoth 03:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sleep while the elections are on? :-) Thanks for making the change. Carcharoth 11:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Blnguyen has 36 oppose votes, but [the bot keeps counting 37]. Tintin (talk) 05:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Tintin (talk) 07:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Argh. This is stupid and provincial, but can you make your bot spell out the month when they do timestamps? I seriously read 11/12/2006 as November 12th, and couldn't figure out why it was so backlogged... -- nae'blis 17:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Bot has been down for a while. Ral315 (talk) 02:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Gurch. You are probably already on it but just in case, a heads up that ArbComElections bot has no updates since 06:37 13 December. Thanks in advance if you could please take a look. Susanlesch 19:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Gurch, Would it be possible to color all the columns, much as the last column is colored? Regards, Ben Aveling 08:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Apparently Crazytales has withdrawn from the race, so could you adjust the bot to strike him out? – Chacor 16:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

personal attack
Can I ask you how calling you an 'arrogant toad' is classed as a personal attack? I could have said a lot worse, and I do not feel that you are up to standards!

How can I report a Wikipedia user? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jg gers906 (talk • contribs) 17:07, December 11, 2006 (UTC)
 * "Arrogant toad" talks about the user, not the action; that's what makes it a personal attack. As for the attack part; it doesn't have to be a legal threat or threat of physical harm to be an attack; we encourage all users to remain civil and discuss issues, not people, in a calm and rational manner. -- nae'blis 22:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

verylongpages
I joined the group assuming the procedure would be only by persuasion. Perhaps your experience might help influence the group in that direction.DGG 02:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)