User talk:Gurubrahma/Archive05

'''DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.'''

This archive page covers approximately the dates between 17 December 2005 and 29 December 2005.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to User talk:Gurubrahma/Archive06. (See How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. --Gurubrahma 05:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

José Limón
Hi, please have a look at Talk:José Limón. Thanks --Roland2 08:59, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help. --Roland2 09:34, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Jguk
If you check Jguk's contributions, you'd see that he was on a mass religioustolerance.org attack spree. I think that reversion is in order here. He did it twice, without consensus. Izehar (talk) 14:00, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * And I think he knew that his edits could be characterised as vandalism - on his first round User:Firebug told him that according to Vandalism deleting info you don't agree with is vandalism. So he has committed the actus reus if you like. The question is if he did it out of bad faith - if yes, those edits were mass vandalism, if no, then they were bona fide misguided edits. I'm not sure if he did it out of bad faith. The first time, it certainly wasn't, but the second time, when he knew of our objections and of policy and yet proceeded. Hmmm... according to WP:AGF we assume good faith in all cases except when there is evidence to the contrary. Is that second spree with knowledge that you are not allowed to remove info you don't agree with sufficient evidence? Izehar (talk) 14:12, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Anyway, it worked. Jguk is now using talk pages. Izehar (talk) 14:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not acknowledging your comment. Yes, I believe that the rollback button should be used to serve Wikipedia only and not my POV. If you check how I have used it, I have used it only for vandalism in RC patrol. I happened to think that jguk's case also warranted it's use. For edits I personally disagree with and are not explicitly condemned by Wikipedia policy, I always revert manually. Izehar (talk) 14:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

How should I title this?!

 * How much longer do I have to point it out for you to acknowledge that there is a serious problem on that page and with that person and some others on it?! "(cur) (last) 08:20, 16 December 2005 Deeptrivia (→Origins of the symbols - Al Khwarizmi is NOT Arab, Iranians will be disgusted)""(cur) (last) 15:53, 16 December 2005 Deeptrivia (→Spread of the numeral system to the West - Iranians will consider it an insult to call an Aryan arab)" When did it become acceptable in epistemological terms to reason, paraphrasing, Einstein is NOT German, Germans/Aryans will be disgusted and consider it an insult to call a jew German". Talk:Hindu-Arabic_numerals How much longer do I have to see verifiable content based on reliable and scientific sources that mentioned the Arab contribution to the numeral system removed because it didn't support their biased, distorting and offensive views? Talk:History_of_the_Hindu-Arabic_numeral_system Talk:Hindu-Arabic_numerals user:csssclll:csssclll (14:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC))


 * Hey Gurubrahma. He's taking me completely wrongly. I know many Iranians, and they constantly complain angrily about Arabs claiming Persian contributions as their own, of which this is a perfect example. Apart from trying to keep the article accurate I don't have much to do with the Arab/Persian problem here. Also, it is Astriolok who consistently keeps reverting the version to his own, and since I am the one who's doing the talking, I think he is venting all his frustration on me. I know it might be offensive to say Iranians will be disgusted, or will consider it an insult, but I said it quite innocently, since that's what I see happening everyday. deeptrivia (talk) 15:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

24.187.170.46
I've had a look at his contributions, and deleted/reverted some as blatent copyvios, but not sure I got them all. I left him a message. explaing that he needs to respect copyright. If bored you might want to have a look. Rich  Farmbrough. 15:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC) Dilawar Singh Babbar was so badly written before I edited it (ahem) that I doubt it was a copyvio. Rich  Farmbrough. 16:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I've read the history of the blocks, but I really don't want to wade through the massive talk page. These guys should be able to find a way forward if they try.  Rich   Farmbrough. 16:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC) -- this comment regarding User_talk:Rich_Farmbrough with deeptrivia and cssslll as the parties - similar to the thread above --Gurubrahma 16:14, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Need help
Hi, I goofed up while making a page move: I moved Tehri to Tehri Garhwal, but there is already a Garhwal page, and I don't know enough of the matter to be doing all this. I don't know how to revert a "move" -- is it that non-admins cannot do it? Please revert that move and if possible tell me how I can do it. Thanx, ImpuMozhi 02:10, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanx very much for the advice and the links. Remarkable that the other user reverted my mess before you got my message - probably thought me a vandal!!


 * Just as the link you sent me advices, I had actually tried to move the page right back to its original location, but the second move would not go through, because "there is already a page by that name". Strange, but maybe I will figure it out. One goofs up and learns. ImpuMozhi 05:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I Apologize
I would like the community, and especially you, to know that I apologize for posting controversial information on this website. I had no intent of intimidating that one user and have already apologized to him. If you must remove the Samual Overland article, then please do. I will discontinue posting on facts that are obscure. I will content myself with following the posting and editing rules of this website.

Sorry,

--67.188.240.163 06:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Hindu-Arabic numerals
Hi Gurubrahma - I know you've been involved in the Hindu-Arabic numerals debates. I recently got a little involved, but I see two problems that are concerning me that I want to bring to your attention:

(1) This debate has no direction or momentum: users are disagreeing about everything, especially on how to conduct it. Votes are taken and then considered illegitimate; consensuses are made, and then considered too small.

(2) And of course, the reverts...I recently moved the page back to Hindu-Arabic numerals after a user arbitrarily shifted it to Arabic numerals.

I was hoping that as an administrator, if you could structure/supervise the process, or end it all with a ruling of Wikilaws, it would be very much appreciated. I think the article needs like a week of protections from any edits, after a decision is reached.

I'm asking you or any administrator you know via you to do something about this, coz there is nothing much to work on or achieve in that talk section. The quality of that article will be indefinitely compromised if something concrete is not done.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama&#39;s Arrow 18:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A Belgian guy put in a good process of final solution here, so I take back my request.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama&#39;s Arrow 21:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Dosing
Can you suggest the best method seeing all the talks I had on this subject with various administrators?

--Dore chakravarty 19:59, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Csssclll
Hi Gurubrahma! User:Csssclll is back with his personal attacks and reverts. What can be done? Thanks! Also, look at Talk:Hindu-Arabic numerals. They have called for fresh voting for a third time! deeptrivia (talk) 00:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Ianbrown's RfA
Thanks for voting in my recent RfA. I was overwhelmed at the turnout and comments received. Ian &equiv; talk 07:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Merger comment
Please comment: Wikipedia_talk:Notice_board_for_India-related_topics I think it may be a good idea to de-merge and take a merger vote. --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 09:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Merging process request
Dear Gurubrahma I am trying to merge, or get someone to merge, the pages for chemistry resources, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chemicals/Data_book] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chemicals/Data], but I don't know how to to start it. and I can't even get the template to point the correct links, could you help me? or indicate me where to get some help? thanks! *Antrax 12:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Dose/dosing
Okay, fair enough; I think in the future they will definitely be merged (not by me), because the usage of the words is always in the same context. Similar words like Time and The Time may deserve different disambiguation pages, but in my opinion a noun and its associated verb do not. --CDN99 16:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Dosing
Thanks very much for solving my problem. Noted the correction made. Also noted your suggestion. Does this suggestion mean that I have to point to this page dosing if it appears in any article? Say in the case of article Injector the link to be for dosing. Have I understood right?

--Dore chakravarty 18:25, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

C-uploaded
To protect an image from the Commons you have to actually download it from there and upload it here at the same filename. Otherwise it's not protected. Then you can put on the c-uploaded template and protect the page (mprotected is redundant here). Thanks.--Pharos 19:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think you've misunderstood the utility of c-uploaded. It does not "get it uploaded fast".  It doesn't get it uploaded at all.  I know it's slow, but we have to download and upload it manually– there's no shortcut.  C-uploaded is just a notice that it has been uploaded and can be deleted once it's off the Main Page, really.  I created c-uploaded myself, so I'm pretty much an authority there.  Maybe I should give more instruction on its talk page.  Thanks.--Pharos 20:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Dosing
Thanks very much.

--Dore chakravarty 19:59, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

User: Freddie Mercury
Note that I reverted his edit on Nelson Mandela because I examined his contribution history and he had vandalised in the past. e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Altamont%2C_Illinois&diff=prev&oldid=31794747 Wikicrusader 23:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

In any case, I still would have reverted that edit because it was not a noteworthy addition to a Nelson Mandela article that some band wrote a song "dedicated to him." Wikicrusader 23:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

anon
have you seen the 'content' i am removing? You should remove it yourself--203.54.74.59 10:06, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

anon
prehaps this is a better solution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Dggst

anon
I guess you'll have to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Dggst&oldid=32086385 because of that disgusting feral Could you help?

Vizzy
Is the book "Tradition and modernity: A study of PVG Raju and his family in state and local politics" by Karanam Narayana Rao something that you have heard of or is it available in the market ? While asking around for information about Vizzy, someone suggested that I may look at it. Google gives one hit to a Hindu article which says that it was a doctoral thesis. Tintin 13:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Asked Vyzasatya, if it fails I'll try a bigger audience. As for DYK, it is lack of experience ! Tintin 00:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

My bad
I'll be happy to. =)

Thanks for all your good work over there! --Dvyost 17:57, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

malo's RfA
Gurubrahma, thanks for your support on my RFA. I was rather suprised at the overwhelming support I received. Thank you for your confidence in me. I hope that I'll live up to your expectations in the future as well. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 04:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

It would help
It would help if you can you take a look at this: Talk:Rajput. Unfortunately, an RfC has been filed as well... --Regards. Miljoshi | talk 18:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

CSDG1
Meh. Just as long as it gets expanded. It had also been originally deleted for A7 when clearly isn't A7. NSLE ( T + C + CVU ) 07:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

DSI
Sorry, I guess there is no harm in us adding it again but I should have deleted the old one. Have done that now. Tintin 13:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll expand Sharma a bit and add the infobox in a day or two, but I may not be able to a good job because I am out of station and the 3-4 cricket reference books that I have here are all old ones. I'll rework on it once again when I get back in a few weeks time. Tintin 01:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

More Arabic Numerals
Since you got involved before to stop the revert war, I'd like to direct your attention back to Hindu-Arabic Numerals where user Astriolok seems to again be intent on continually putting the page back to some other version. Not sure if there is much you can do, but it is pretty detrimental to the other discussions taking place and is constantly removing edits and corrections made by other users in the process. Thanks. Peyna 14:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

About Vijayanagara
I'm not really sure about the existance of Praudha Raya, as I have checked throughout all my sources and have not found anything. Im pretty sure that Virupaksha Raya II was directly succeeded by Saluva Narasimha Deva Raya, though Im not really certain about this. And by the way, I'll also be finnishing up the remaining Astadiggajas articles, though you may want to double check them. --TBC 20:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Gandhism, Indian nationalism
Hi Gurubrahma,

As you must remember, two main areas of disagreement were the articles Gandhism and Indian nationalism. You complimented my creating them, but stated you didn't agree with the content.

I would like to know what exactly you think the content should be like. In your view, what improvements are necessary?

Let me reiterate that all the references I've listed provide the data I've put into that article. However, if you do feel that references are the key problem, lemme know.

I will strive to improve the articles on the points you suggest. Even if we continue to disagree, I will make the effort to make my work in line with Wikipedia standards.

You can reply to this message on my talkpage whenever you have the time to focus on this question, despite my general request that no messages be left there. I want to improve such articles that I've created, in my period away from major activities. It shall be intermittent, but I'll keep working at it.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama&#39;s Arrow 22:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Miljoshi
Hey there.. Did't see you since three four days. Was wondering what is keepping you busy? --rgds. Miljoshi | talk 10:42, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Madhuri Guin
AFD, to my understanding, is for deciding whether or not to delete something. It appears that half of the participents felt it should be deleted and half felt it should be userfied, which is not sufficient consensus to delete. I'll gladly amend the closure as "userfy" to whichever user wishes to keep this article. Shall I move it to User:Mrhyde? Or to a subpage of your user space? &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  21:06, Dec. 23, 2005
 * It looks like you're offline, so I'll go ahead and move it to User:Mrhyde as he is the primary contributor to the article. If Mrhyde, you, or anybody else objects to that, I guess we will need to seek more advice. I myself am a neutral party and have no opinions on this matter. &mdash; F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  21:21, Dec. 23, 2005

Re:CSD
Hi, I generally delete-at-sight, but make an exception in cases where I have some doubts or reservations. -- Pamri &bull; Talk 03:00, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

ta
G'day Gurubrahma,

thanks for rvting vandalism on my userpage! fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 11:14, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The penis vandal
According to WP:BP: '' 'A user may be blocked by more than one administrator at a time. In this case, the user will be blocked until his/her shortest block has expired. For instance, if an administrator blocks a user for one day, and another administrator blocks the same user for two days, then the user will remain blocked for one day, assuming that the blocks were given at the same time.' '' So they'll remain blocked for 24 hours in this case. - ulayiti  (talk) 11:20, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Malwa
No comments from you on Featured article candidates/Malwa ?? Not good! --rgds. Miljoshi | talk 12:52, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your wishes and I also wish you a merry Xmas and a happy New Year. --Bhadani 16:28, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy holidays!
Merry Christmas and a very happy New Year to you!-- May the Force be with you! Shreshth91 ($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|) 14:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Once more - all the best to you. --Bhadani 15:37, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi, A verry Merry Christmas and happy New Year!! -- Pamri &bull; Talk 08:18, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy New Year
Aravind Parvatikar

WP:DYK
Hello, isn't it about time to update the template? My picture has become stale since Friday. On the other hand, there are nice nominations of articles created just 5 days ago that could become too old if the template is not updated. --Ghirla | talk 07:59, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Rue de l'Abbaye DYK
Hi, Thanks for letting me know - I'd have missed it otherwise. Gratifying to see that people appreciated the article. Dl yo ns 493  Ta lk  18:20, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Chetan Sharma
Expanded it, but it is a very average effort. I don't have any books about him at the moment and it looks like a description of his statsguru output. Please do some copyediting. I'll expand it a little more when I get home in a few weeks time. A few things which could be added are :

Tintin 19:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * He used to have the middle name 'Jagatram' but at the moment the only hit that I get it in google is from rediff. We need to find a more authoritative source if we want to override CI and CA.
 * There is little about his career outside Tests, especially about his early days.
 * He used to be called the fastest bowler in India for sometime in the eighties. But we need to cite a specific source.
 * There is a story that he took a wicket with a no-ball before taking one properly with his fifth ball in Tests. Don't know whether it is true.
 * Something about his injury. He missed half the matches of his career due to injuries. I think it was some trouble with his back but need a source to confirm.

DYK updates
Hi, I prefer to do the updates between 0:00 and 12:00 UTC- so we seem pretty well coordinated. There aren't very many high quality new articles being suggested at the moment- so I think it'll only need 2 updates a day over the new year. One thing that does need to be done is working out how to use Ally Unions bot to archive the old templates, he left instructions on the talk page- but I haven't been able to decipher them, so if you're after a challange you could try and work out how to use the bot :) Thanks for all your help. --nixie 00:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * On the new protection boxes, all you need to do is select the appropriate option in the Edit box when protecting or unprotecting and moves are done automatically, you shouldn't need to adjust the move box unless for some reason you want the image to stay protected from moves.--nixie 10:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Category
Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan was a cosmopolitan and do we need to catogorize him as tamil, telegu or kannada. I believe every state in south india lay their claim for his legacy. Lets not do the same here in wikipedia.. I have added the category people from karnataka.... But I realized that there already exists a tamil and telegu tag... so what to do? since he has spent many years in delhi we can also see a tag... people from delhi... Any thoughts --Aravind Parvatikar 10:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) Thank you for the clarification --Aravind Parvatikar 10:42, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Indian copyright law
According to Indian copyright law, copyrights expire after 60 years from the year it was first published. In other words: Pics published before 1-1-45 are PD. See this. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  11:05, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Laxmanrao Kirloskar
Shantanu Laxmanrao Kirloskar was the son of Laxmanrao Kirloskar The Kirloskar Group was started by Laxamnrao and the foundations of kirloskarwadi were laid by late laxmanrao.

The article shantanu Laxamnrao kirloskar states otherwise.

-- The link you can refer to

please advise --Aravind Parvatikar 16:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the follow up.--Aravind Parvatikar 17:30, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Hindu-Arabic numerals
Hi Gurubrahma. Someone has move the article back to Arabic numerals despite the clear verdict opposing that name. I moved it back to Hindu-Arabic numerals, clearly explaining the issue, but he moved it back to Arabic numerals, without giving any justification of the move. Please have a look. deeptrivia (talk) 06:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hey Gurubrahma, I reverted the name change because I thought it was vandalism. I was not able to think of any other reason why someone would change the name taking into account how the voting went, and from user RN's homepage, I couldn't make out that he was an experienced editor. deeptrivia (talk) 15:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that some editors have constructed an entire conspiracy theory, based on an "Indian lobby", etc, and it seems the whole problem is that they are not assuming good faith. I don't wish to spend more energy on this issue, but I want to tell you that I am highly unsatisfied with the way everything happened. deeptrivia (talk) 15:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Arabic numerals
Hi Gurubrahma,

At least from what I see before all this "voting" started the page was at Arabic numerals originally. My question is is this true, or is this the misunderstanding on my part?

My "ruling" was basically that there was no consensus for any moving in the first place.

Also, it has been protected from page moves ever since User:deeptrivia tryed to revert my change only two or so hours after I decided the result... (I almost protected it from moves right at the start...)

Anyway, I hope I we can settle this once and for all for the benefit of everyone :).

Thanks :)

WhiteNight T 07:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi! It was agreed between all parties that the proposal is to move the article to "Arabic numerals" from "Hindu-Arabic numerals." It was also agreed (though I thought it was very unfair) that:


 * Those opposing the move have the advantage that it won't be moved unless there's a 60% majority
 * Those supporting the move have the advantage that the person proposing the move can do the *short* opening statement.
 * For all the rest of the voting procedure both parties are equal. (quoting Francis Schonken from 21:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

I would definitely have preferred it the other way round, since I think an opening statement makes a major difference, since many people just read the opening statement and understandably don't bother with the discussion below the votes. The present situation was accepted with the agreement that the article will be moved to "Arabic numerals" only if more than 60% voters favored that title. In the present situation, I find the move to "Arabic numerals" ridiculous, besides being completely unjust and unfair. deeptrivia (talk) 07:34, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi again!

Thanks for your nice comment on my talk page!

I don't think many were arguing that HAN was not the scientifically correct name. The argument seems to be that AN was the one that had more common usage which is covered under the wikipedia naming guidelines, and as you probably know as one of the WP:RM maintainers I have to try to follow those naming guidelines. So, as I mentioned there seems to be a dispute over whether the common usage trumps the scientific usage. I should mention that sometimes the wikipedia conventions don't follow Britaniccas (sp).

So I guess my question is that, besides being the name chosen by Britanicca (sp), why should the scientific usage be preferred here?

(I don't care too much one way or the other, as I'm not supposed to get personally involved in these debates anyway :)).

WhiteNight T 08:07, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey Gurubrahma, it doesn't seem that User:RN is in a mood to correct his mistake, and what has happened is unbelieveable. What can be done about it? Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 02:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Nath
The exisiting article Nath gives only one dimensional view of the sect. I believe that the Nath Sampradaya is very vast and something which is not completely documented till date. Many people have done research on tantra and basic fact remains that it orginated from nath sampradaya. I believe you might be aware that Nath Sampradaya is still active in India. Many sadhu akhadas still do follow the rigid traditions and in any Kumbh Mela you would be able to find Kanpath Yogis. I had the opportunity of visiting Shri Gorakhnath Bekh Barah Avaduth Sampradaya's Math (Kal Bhairav Temple near Mumbadevi) here in Mumbai which is a sub-sect of Gorakhnath Math located at Gorakhpur.

I dont have a source, i belive the Raj Guru of Nepal Royal Family is also from the Nath Sampradaya...Just because many of these sects dont have online present doesnt mean that they dont exist. I think the article needs to be looked from all veiw points. Your Thoughts

--Aravind Parvatikar 16:25, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch for your help on the kirloskar issue. I am working towards gathering sources for the article Nath. I know this is going to take a while however... I am sure that atleast in next quarter i should be adding something towards it.

Bye and wish you a happy new year. --Aravind Parvatikar 08:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

COTW Tagging
Thanks for your messages on my talk page. Always good to see a "good work" note. Still got more work to do. I am working on a history table for the past COTW - Ganeshk 10:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Indian communists and family names
Hi, Gurubrahma. I started making a more rational list for articles on communists: since they kept being shoved into the amorphous and would-be immense category of "Communists", I started grouping them according to nationality. "Communists by nationality" leads to the category "Communists", as each national page does to its respective "[Country] politicians" (as in "Indian politicians"), so there should be no ambiguity there. I have further explained the details of this move on the talkpage for "Category:Communists", as well as in a debate on my Talk page (feel free to contact me there). The categories are pretty well established (for example, I explained on some page why there is no need for a "Russian communists" when we have "Soviet politicians" etc.), but I am requesting your assistance on matters which surpass my abilities: in case I have missed out on some Indian ones, and in case new articles pop up, could you direct them towards the mentioned "Category:Indian communists"? Also, could you please go to that category page and sort them by family name? I cannot get the Indian nomenclature(s) right, and for this I appologize. I think all of these moves would benefit a Wikipedia user, and would create a natural "flow" between articles. Many thanks.Dahn 01:28, 30 December 2005 (UTC)