User talk:Gwaza

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Sources please...
, since you seem to have a lot of material about the early history of Khoikhoi peoples at your disposal, could you please do everyone a favour and cite your sources? You have expanded the section, but it is still no better referenced than it was seven years before. Technically all this text should be removed pending demonstration of reliable sourcing. So please add some references... -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 22:05, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

I will add sources when I have time,I just couldn't bear to see this entry in such a bad state... there were no sources before I got to it and so nothing has changed except the quality of info. Please if anyone can add the sources I would appreciate, they are all available online somewhere I just have not had the time to refind them all. Thank you, kai gangans Gwaza (talk) 22:12, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If the problem is formatting, I can see to that. Just paste your sources here and I'll put them into reference form. Afterwards you would still have to place these behind the specific sentences that they apply to, however. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:42, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Sources pending
I will add sources when I have time,I just couldn't bear to see this entry in such a bad state... there were no sources before I got to it and so nothing has changed except the quality of info. Please if anyone can add the sources I would appreciate, they are all available online somewhere I just have not had the time to refind them all. Thank you, kai gangans Gwaza (talk) 22:12, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

!Ora people moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, !Ora people, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please follow the prompts on the Articles for Creation template atop the page. ... disco spinster   talk  13:34, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Languages of South Africa
Hello, I would just like to inform you that two of the minority Languages you listed are likely spurious. It appears that SiThonga is just an alternate pronunciation of XiTsonga (the Wiki articles shows that early missionaries used the two names interchangeably to refer to the same exact dialect. Meanwhile, I could find no references online to a SiLaNgomane language except for sites that cited the Wiki article itself. The best I could find is that Ngomane is a city in Swaziland and also a Zulu personal name. If you can give me sources showing the existnance of this language that would be helpful, otherwise I may remove them from the page. -MToumbola (talk) 11:26, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello, SiThonga is not Xitsonga, it is the language of the INgwavuma region, part of the Tembe chieftaincy, much has been written about this. See for example in Mesthrie et al "Language in South Africa" SiLaNgomane is the alternate name of SiNgomane, the language of the Ngomane chieftaincy, a language mistakenly called SiMbayi by standard Siswati speakers... These are a Mthombeni Ndebele derived chieftaincy and their language show that... There is no such "Zulu" surname as Ngomane, this is a polity directly descending from Mthombeni, and therefore from Musi, so predates AmaZulu by hundreds of years... Gwaza

Thank you very much for the response! Thanks to your clarification, I was able to find more information on this topic: 1. There is much onomastic confusion here. The terms 'Tsonga,. 'Thonga,. Tonga', 'Shangaan and 'Gwamba are often used interchangeably. Tsonga has emerged as thee label used for all of the various linguistic subvarieties as well as the name of the standardised variety used in South Africa (based on the Nkuna and Gwamba varieties). 'The term "Thonga", is reserved in this chapter for the linguistically related group residing in northern KwaZulu-Natal this form is generally taken to be Zulu, but is occasionally used by this group to name itself. The South African Thonga are a subgroup of the Ronga, itself a subdivision within the larger Tsonga group (S. W). (from Mesthrie et al.)

2.Pai (hiPai, as the speakers of the language refer to it, or siMbayi, as it is known by the Swati) is a language form spoken in the eastern parts of the erstwhile Transvaal Lowveld (presently known as Mpumalanga) of the Republic of South Africa, in the area adjoining the Kingdom of Swaziland, Eastern Mpumalanga and Mozambique. In order to understand the unique characteristics of this language form or language entity (clarification of these terms will follow, cf. par 1.5.2 & 1.5.3), the geographical placement and history of the speakers of Pai has to be taken into consideration. Source: THE PAI LANGUAGE OF EASTERN MPUMALANGA AND ITS RELATION TO SWATI by PETRUS CORNELIUS TALJAARD

1. So it appears that Thonga is related to Tsonga, but has become influenced by Zulu due to living in KwaZulu-Natal. This agrees with your statements. 2. SiLaNgomane/SiNgomane/SiMbayi appears to be the same language as Pai. Pai is traditionally classified as "East Sotho"-which is how it's listed on the Wiki, but according to Taljaard it is closer to Swazi.

Anyways, once again thank you for replying to my comment. Have a nice day :) -MToumbola (talk) 9:16, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello, thank you. I just want to clarify that HiPai is not the same as SiNgomane at all... Si(La)Ngomane is usually classified as a Tekela Nguni language whereas HiPai is an Eastern Sotho language. HiPai is very divergent. Speakers of SiTekela that is closest to Standard SiSwati tend to refer to SiNgomane as SiMbayi, because they have conflated the two groups... There is actually no connection between them...

Draft:!Ora people concern
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March 2021
Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. Thanks! Rsk6400 (talk) 07:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Alright thank you I will do so in future. Gwaza (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Kare or praise address
On Khoekhoe, you added the terms kare and praise address, but it isn't at all clear what those mean. A question about this has been on its talk page since 2019. Could you explain them? – gpvos (talk) User:Gpvos 15:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)


 * a kares or karetsanas is a praise song or praise address used to edify a person in the general southern african fashion (compare with "isithakazelo")... "Khoekhoe" is really just a praising name that can be used of anyone anywhere in the world if they are praiseworthy, it's only gotten some sort of vague ethnic meaning through a mistake of European scholarship Gwaza (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)