User talk:Gwinva/Archive 4

Dude! New article!
May be up your alley to make some contributions. A bit modern for your tastes, but nonetheless, you have done related research: Horses in World War I  The writer is also a non-native speaker so a little grammatical help may also be welcomed. Seems to be VERY nice editor. Montanabw (talk) 22:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Good to see you around again. :)

– ⊥ ¡ɐɔıʇǝo  N  oetica! T– 21:41, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Two weeks' absence has wreaked havoc across my watchlist.  Makes me wonder how WP survives without me... Gwinva (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, yeah, per Rouncey, et. al., the template thing was the thing I was talking about on that other thing (wink) ...you know who only removed the template from over 400 articles without asking anyone.  Montanabw (talk) 21:29, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Serial edits
Thank you for your contribution to Horses in World War I. I especially appreciated the way your editing unfolded across a span of serial edits. The changes evolved in a fashion that I could grasp quite readily. If my writing does manage to improve over time, I suspect that it will be due, in part, to the cumulative effect of helpful edits like yours. --Tenmei (talk) 23:30, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXV (January 2009)
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Why
...does it seem that your words are not your own, re: a recent "undo" on the jack harkness page... almost seems as if mods. gang up on editors to get their own way !!!

W —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.90.137 (talk) 01:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVI (February 2009)
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Help needed
Byzantine navy is running for FA here, but there are some problems. Do you have David Nicolle, Medieval warfare source book/2 at hand and can quote a bit about the transfer of maritime technology from the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean and the Muslim settlements in the Levante that served as marines. Another issue is the rise of the crossbow as weapon of the marines and the introduction of high boarded ships with few marines. Thanks a lot. Greetings Wandalstouring (talk) 10:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The technology transfer from the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean as highlighted by Nicolle needs some backup and there were Yemeni used as marines and settled in the Levant. Thanks a lot for helping. Wandalstouring (talk) 10:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

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smile
Glad to amuse, and thanks for your thanks! BrainyBabe (talk) 11:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Castaway depot

 * This is easily one of the most interesting articles that I have ever read on wikipedia. Thanks for teaching me something new. Great work!--Dincher (talk) 01:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVII (March 2009)
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Yes, still on about Broad Arrows!
Hi, thanks for the New Year wishes. I think I've forgotten how to use Wikipedia! I've been away for a few months grappling with leukaemia but things seem to have come right now and Im back at work and finally doing that article on broad arrows! Do you still have that milestone image you took in the UK? And my email? Hows the Mary collection going?! Mhicaoidh (talk) 02:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Not yet, but it's in the stack
Oh dear, Gwinva. Confession time. I did read the first page then fell victim to John le Carré Syndrome. In other words, it didn't grab me by the heart and soul immediately (not that I realistically expected it would), so I allowed other matters to assume higher priority in my life. I have it in my stack of reading - purely as a matter of deep principle given that I'd prevailed upon you to send it to me across the waters, so I owe you at least that much - but it keeps getting pushed further down as newer and more exciting reading material arrives from parts near and far. It's still in pristine condition, I assure you. Thanks for the reminder, and I will use some "spare time" over Easter to give it another go. I assume the Easter bunny will have brought me some delicious chocolates with which to remove the otherwise ordinary taste in my mouth occasioned by the reading of the works of said Hugh Desmond. Best as always. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Update. The Easter bunny did not - repeat, not - show up.  How's that for 21st century progress!!  I have started on the required reading, but I find I can't get through more than a half a chapter before I fall asleep.  I will persevere, though.  I have my suspicions about the culprit, and I want to know if I'm right.  Or not.


 * Further update: something is winging (or sailing) its way to you across the waters as we speak. --  JackofOz (talk) 01:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, can you tell me if you know any more about Richard Farrell than I managed to glean from online sources? I'm a classical piano nerd from way back, but have to admit I'd never heard of him, until last week when I came across his name while doing research for Alexander Sverjensky.  He sounded interesting enough to spend a little time checking out, and apparently he was way up there.  He seems to have become all but forgotten since his very untimely death, but his recordings were re-released on CD last year, so maybe he'll be a little better known from now on.  --  JackofOz (talk) 21:48, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Amazing how such prominent people can become so totally forgotten after their death, isn't it.  But at least he left a recorded legacy.  No such luck with Alma Moodie.  --  JackofOz (talk) 08:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Alexander Turnbull images on Commons
Awesome, and thanks for the leadership

Lanma726 (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

NZ patriot needs calming hand...
See Talk:Phar Lap. One of your compatriots needs to chill out a bit. Montanabw (talk) 02:42, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

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MASH episodes.`
Two years ago, at Talk:List_of_M*A*S*H_episodes_(Season_1), you made note of the failure of most episode article to meet notability and of problems they had. In the intervening two years, nothing was fixed. I stumbled across this mess and nominated a long list for deletion. Your input, as the 'original' noter of the failures, would be welcomed. Please look in on this, it's become a horrible mess. ThuranX (talk) 03:41, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Horsey article
Gwinva, if interested, take a look at Kaimanawa horses. Needs photo and more info if you can find it, or send on to a fellow NZ-er who may be interested. Montanabw (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

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Crathilinth
Thanks much for your work! I've offered another comment (but not a question) that you might find interesting. Nyttend (talk) 03:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * More thanks. My final year in college included a class on "History and Theory", frequently getting into the very questions that we're getting into with Buchanan et al, and this is the first situation of any sort that I remember using that.  Hopefully I can also use it in a more academic setting :-)  Nyttend (talk) 12:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

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John Jack
Hi,

Glad you liked the photos!

I just created a page about John Jack but somebody deleted it, I suppose I must have breached some rule due to my ignorance.

We have a lot of information about him as his son wrote some articles in the 1860s based upon his experiences in the Peninsula and one of my distant relatives wrote an article about him for a local family history journal.

I was aware of the article you mentioned and I contacted David Webster who turned out to be a relative who was descended from Charles Jack, John's brother. He has a letter from John's son who mentions that his father is unwell as 'he has the cold of the camp on him'

I'll research how to create pages that don't get deleted and have another go. If you can offer me any advice, I'd be grateful.

Regards,

Andrew —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andygm (talk • contribs) 22:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your kind note! I was feeling a bit bruised. .

The article I wrote was a skeleton to which I was going to add more details once I got all my documents out of the attic. I take your point about whether he justifies an article on his own although he was one of very few soldiers who had 12 clasps to his General Service Medal and I believe that there are very few Peninsular War veterans for whom we have a photograph.

How will I know when the article will reappear and how would I access it?

Andygm (talk) 11:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

John Jack
Thanks for getting my entry out of jail!

I've spent part of today scanning some of the documents I have just unearthed from the attic. If you want to give me your email address, I can send you copies and perhaps you could give me some advice about where to take this.

Regards,

Andygm (talk) 22:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

John Jack
Some years ago I was browsing through a book about medals of the British Army and under the 52nd Regiment of Foot I found a reference to the 'very rare group of medals awarded to John Jack'.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact title of the book.

There was also an article published about him in the Aberdeenshire Family History Society Journal back in the 70s I think. I have a copy of it.

Andygm (talk) 23:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi here's some basic information about John Jack:

John Jack volunteered from the Aberdeen Militia on 5/ 5/1805 to the 52nd Regiment of Foot. The 52nd (Oxfordshire) Light Infantry, one of the three finest regiments in the British Army, were among the light troops trained at Shorncliffe camp under Sir John Moore. Every man was taught to cook and tailor and lived in war conditions. They were trained to act as the forward screen of the army.

CORUNNA John Jack served in the 2nd Battalion under Sir Robert 'Black Bob' Craufurd. My other information concerns the military career of John Jack of the 52nd.The following is from the muster rolls in the PRO:

He volunteered from the Aberdeen Militia, date 5 May 1805.Jul-Sep 1805 Shorncliffe. Nov-Dec 1805 Hythe Barracks. Dec 1805-Mar 1806 Captain Edward Gibb's Company. Mar-June 1806 Broburn Lees. Dec 1806-Mar 1807 Melazzo, Sicily. To June 1807. Aug-Dec 1807 at Canterbury. To June 1808. June-Sep 1808 Estremoz. Dec 1808-Feb 1809 Spain. Mar-Apr 1809 Deal, Kent. Jun-Sep 1809 Portugal. To Sep 1810 and to Mar 1811. Mar-Jun 1811 Lanara, Spain. To Dec 1811. Sick, absent Mar-Jun 1812. To Jun 1813 Spain. Sep-Dec 1813 France. To Jun 1814. Jun-Sep 1814 Chatham. To Dec 1814. Dec 1814-March 1815 Lepines, Flanders. To Jun 1815, when 52nd was in Paris. To Dec 1815, then Clargu, France. Mar-Jun 1816 Thoumene, France. To June 1816, then Lampneur, France, to Dec 1816. Chelsea records WC 117-2 don't give much that we didn't know already.

John Jack, 52nd Foot. Invalided 13 Dec 1826 age 47 after having been a private for 21 years and 6 months. Total service 23 years 8 months. Pension raised from 1s 1d to 1s 6d 30 Oct 1860. Cause of discharge: wounded and worn out. Born Montreath (sic!). Height 5ft 7 ins., fresh complexion, hazel eyes. Trade, labourer. (These last two items don't tally with his discharge papers). Medal Roll WO 100-7 is as we know. Military GS Medal with 12 clasps(as we have). Served in Captain Rowan's Company. WO 100-15/1 Awarded Waterloo Medal. Served in Major William Rowan's Company. Prize Money awarded. WO 164 - 561/332/405/362: Period 13 March to 16 May 1811: 6/3½d awarded on 11 May 1816, paid to Greenwood and Co. Further payment on 11 May 1816 : 7/6d to Greenwood and Co. Period 13 January to 5 April 1812 ) 14 May to 21 Oct 1812     )  6/4d to Greenwood and Co. 1 Jan to 10 Apr 1814, all paid on 11 May 1816: £1.14.3½d. For Battle of Waterloo 1815: £2.11.4d paid 4 Sep 1817 to Paymaster Clarke, also for capture of Paris.

Here's a description of him by his grandson written in the 1930s or 1940s:

A 52nd. VETERAN. By His Grandson.

My grandfather. John Jack, died when I was a boy of twelve, yet I can vividly recall the old veteran, his hair then whitened by the snows of ninety years and his figure, shaken and palsied as it was by the burden of his age still retaining a measure of soldier-like erectness. His voice when in old age, had a vigour and volume which was in strong contrast with his physical weakness, and its accents were not those to which one is accustomed in an Aberdeenshire village.

Of his career as a soldier he has left little which one can tell. Unwilling to provoke the scepticism with which tales of some old warriors are received, he was reticent regarding the stirring experiences of his twenty three years of service.

Apart from his medals, the only record of his service which is now in existence is a certificate granted by the Secretary and Registrar of the Royal Hospital, Chelsea, on 30th. October, 1860 when his pension, which up till then had been 1s.1d. was increased to 1s. 6d. per. diem. From this document we learn that John Jack late of the 52nd. Regiment of Foot, was admitted an out-pensioner of Her Majesty's Royal Hospital at Chelsea on 13th. December 1826. It further notes that his eyes were grey, his hair brown, his stature 5 feet 9 inches, his age (in 1860) 81, and that he had served 23 years 8 months.

I understand that he joined the militia in 1803 as substitute for a farmer who did not covet military fame, but when or where he, a Scotchman, joined the 52nd. Regiment I have not been able to find out. He must have done so not later than 1808, for he was at Corunna (January 1809), and often spoke of the terrible hardships of the retreat under Sir John Moore and of the exhausted condition in which he and the remnant of his company reached England. He was still with the 52nd. when as part of the Light Division it covered itself with glory under Wellington. At the assault of Ciudad Rodrigo he was a "volunteer in the leading column of attack," and for his services on that occasion received a medal from the officers of the Regiment. At Badajoz he was severely wounded by a shot which passed through the left side of his body. His life was saved, he said, by a comrade who dragged him to a place of safety. There was once, I have been told a list of twenty engagements in which he took part, but this with other records has disappeared. The Peninsular Medal, granted him in 1848, bears twelve clasps. Finally he was with the 52nd. when, in June 1815, it helped to give the finishing touch to Napoleon's career, and for this he got the Waterloo Medal. In 1826 he was discharged, "a good soldier and an honest man." On returning to Scotland he settled in the little village of New Byth, within a very few miles of the spot where he had been born in 1779. There he married and worked at the trade of shoemaking, which he had learned before enlisting. The even tenor of his life was broken only by the periodical visits which he and a gradually diminishing, band of old soldiers used to make to Banff on pension days, when the stirring scenes of former days were rehearsed and old battles fought anew.

In 1870 at the ripe old age of ninety-one, he died, and was laid to rest in the parish churchyard of Turriff. He was survived by his widow (since dead) a son and two daughters. John R. Jack. [My great grandfather, a headmaster in Aberdeen]

And here is something from another family member. (This is the article from the Aberdeenshire Family History Society Journal):

JOHN JACK, 52nd REGIMENT

My great-great-grandfather, John Jack, and his twin sister Janet were born in the farmtoun of Cairnhill in the parish of Monquhitter, where they were baptized on the 19th of March 1780. John's first job on leaving school was with the Rev Alexander Johnston, minister of the parish, at £3-10-0 a year plus his keep. Seeing little future as a farm servant, he went to Turriff and learned the trade of shoemaking, which he later practised in Aberdeen. In that city he joined the Aberdeen Militia* in 1803 as a substitute for a young farmer who did not seek military glory. In 1805, when his regiment was in Edinburgh Castle, a recruiting party arrived to seek volunteers for the experimental brigade, which Sir John Moore was forming. Attracted by the prospects, John enlisted in the 52nd Regiment (later known as the Oxfordshire Light Infantry), and proceeded to Shorncliffe, where a period of rigorous training followed. His first spell of overseas duty came in September when the 1st Battalion of the 52nd sailed from Plymouth bound for Sicily, part of the force which was sent to pre-empt any attempt by Napoleon to occupy the island. The regiment returned to Portsmouth on the last day of 1807, and early in 1808 it embarked for Sweden as part of a force designed to protect that country. They were soon recalled and in the summer sailed for Portugal to face a much sterner test, which ended in January 1809 with the retreat to Corunna and the death of their beloved general, Sir John Moore. John Jack's skills as a cobbler were much in demand during the appalling conditions of the retreat; the lst/52nd was one of the battalions that covered the rearguard from Sahagun to Corunna, and the value of their discipline was shown by their loss during that time of only one bugler and 92 men. The British army was back in the Peninsula (which John pronounced with the accent on the SUL) by June; the l/52nd together with the l/43rd and the l/95th formed the Light Brigade under Robert Craufurd. During the next six years John Jack took part with his regiment in twenty-seven engagements, culminating in Waterloo. John was a volunteer in the Forlorn Hope at the siege of Ciudad Rodrigo, and was severely wounded at Badajoz when a musket ball passed through the lower part of his body. He was dragged to safety by a comrade, and survived. Countless tales could be told of his experiences. After Waterloo his regiment was in the army of occupation till November 1818, when it returned to the UK. In 1321 it moved to Ireland, and from there sailed to Nova Scotia in 1823. It was at Halifax S.S. that John Jack was discharged on the 19th of September 1826, "worn out", after serving for 23 years and eight months. He returned to England and walked back to Aberdeenshire, where he married Barbara Innes and settled down as a shoemaker in New Byth. He was granted a pension of 1/1d per day as an out-patient of Chelsea Hospital. In 1860, at the age of 80 he decided to ask for an increase, and wrote to the Duke of Richmond. His letter arrived on the night of the Duke's death, but his son passed the letter on, and shortly afterwards John was delighted to learn that his pension had been increased to 1/6d a day. The authorities nay have thought that he would not enjoy the increase for long, but the old man lived on for another ten years, and only towards the end could he no longer go to Banff on pension days, but was confined to his chair, deaf and almost blind, but with his voice still strong and vigorous, its accents (as his grandson recalled) "not those to which one is accustomed in an Aberdeenshire village." We are fortunate in the family in having his medals, a rare group consisting of the Military General Service Medal with twelve clasps (for Corunna, Busaco, Fuentes D'onor, Ciudad Rodrigo, Badajoz, Salamanca, Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nivelle, Nive, Orthes and Toulouse), the medal given by the officers of the regiment to the members, of the Forlorn Hope at Rodrigo, and the Waterloo medal. We also have a photograph of him (see below) taken in his old age, wearing his medals. There are, of course, many portraits of officers who served in the Peninsula and at Waterloo, but there are few likenesses of private soldiers of that period. From his discharge papers we learn that he was 5 feet; 9½ inches tall, and had grey eyes, brown hair, and a fresh complexion, and a paper signed by his captain testifies to the fact that he conducted himself always as a gallant soldier and good, honest man." This document also reveals that the 52nd during these six years suffered 1309 casualties (187 killed and 1122 wounded), not counting the numerous victims of disease, fatigue, and hardships. John Jack died at New Byth on the 12th of May 1870, at the age of 90. A brief notice in the "Aberdeen Journal" says: "Deceased had probably left none who have taken part in so much active service, he having been in no fewer than twenty-seven engagements, from Corunna to Waterloo. He lived and died much respected by a wide circle of friends." He was laid to rest in the parish churchyard of Turriff.

A D MERSON

I also have some stuff which his son wrote for a local newspaper in the 1860s but I'd have to transcribe it and so it would take a bit longer to get to you.

Andygm (talk) 08:15, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Still transcribing, but have found this reference (on page 4) http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/downloads/jindex.pdf Andygm (talk) 15:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Castaway hut picture
Hi!

Did you make the picture of the castaway hut on the Antipodes Islands? Then I would like to have contact with you.

130.241.163.249 (talk) 14:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. The image was uploaded by commons user LawrieM, in March 2009.  You could try contacting him on his talk page, but he has not added anything to commons since then.  He also has a WP page at User:LawrieM, but again, he does not appear to be around still. If you log in, you should be able to email him.  Gwinva (talk) 00:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for this quick response. I put a message on his talk page.

Natan

130.241.163.249 (talk) 17:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi I am LawrieM. I took the photo of the Antipodes Island Hut - you can contact me at lawrie@access-applications.co.nz Ta Lawrie LawrieM (talk) 02:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLI (July 2009)
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Medal images
Not a problem - let me know if you need something similar in the future. Shimgray | talk | 12:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

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The psychology of far-right politics
I found your responce to my question on the Humanities page very interesting, and illuminated my own experience in an aggressive working-class organisation. Do you know of any research or books where I could read more about this "I am inheritantly superior so I deserve something without working for it" idea please? 89.242.93.112 (talk) 11:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

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Cleanup task
Howdy hi! Somewhere along the line, some of your links went dead in Horses in the Middle Ages and are now flagged for cleanup. When you have a chance, may want to swing over there and fix. FYI! Montanabw (talk) 03:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Kaimanawa horse
You are a New Zealander, and Dana is working on the article Kaimanawa horse, she wants some input from the locals. I know you aren't a horse person, but you are closer to the herd than we are... can you peek and offer any comments if needed? Thanks. Montanabw (talk) 04:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

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Anzac Day
Cheers, Gwinva. Fascinating how customs vary, isn't it. 11 November has long resonated in the Australian psyche: Ned Kelly was executed on that day; WWI (which included the Gallipoli campaign) ended on that day; and the political events of 1975 culminated on that day. The poppy was the order of the day on 11 November from 1918 onwards. Anzac Day started slightly later, and it has its own culture, such as the "traditional" playing of two-up (of which I have never played a game or even seen one played). The poppy was always accepted if someone wanted to wear one on Anzac Day, but it just hasn't been the general custom, mainly because they simply aren't sold except around Remembrance Day, so they'd have to use one they got the previous November. Wreaths are different: poppies have long featured in wreaths on both Remembrance Day and Anzac Day. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting! The first NZ Anzac Day commemoration was in 1916!  Official public holiday from 1921 (and still is: it's has the strictest retail/work restrictions of all).  Are you sure Aust. had poppies from 1918?  Most sources say they were first adopted (by Americans) in 1921.  Found an interesting note about the choice of Anzac day for poppies here: the boat was too late for November 11th, so they saved them for Anzac Day.  Gwinva (talk) 08:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

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