User talk:HG1/workshop/Jenin redrafting

Good start
Definitely the structure is an improvement, as it accommodates multiple points of view much more naturally than what we have now. However I have specific problems with many of the statements made:


 * No other Palestinian deaths from the battle have been confirmed since this time.
 * Seems like original research to me, especially insofar as it implies that 52 is the "final figure", when Amnesty finds 54, and two people were apparently killed by unexploded ordnance resulting from the battle. I would be fine with, "no significantly different figures have been confirmed since this time" or something similar.


 * In general, Palestinian officials have spoken of significantly higher suspected (unconfirmed) deaths
 * 'Suspected (unconfirmed)' is redundant, and I'm not convinced that Palestinian officials have spoken of this since the camp was opened. I did find that Hamas website claiming "hundreds", a claim maybe worth attributing. Definitely have to distinguish between (probably good faith) excessive estimates made during and immediately after the battle, and persistent claims from after the dust settled.


 * Several investigations, described below, also explored the question of whether to describe the battle of Jenin as a massacre.
 * Frankly, I don't believe this is true. Both HRW and Amnesty treated the question of "massacre" as incidental, and I recall reading an Amnesty rep basically trashing the whole "massacre question" as unhelpful if not downright pernicious. It would be much better to say that Western and Israeli commentary on the battle focussed heavily on the question of "massacre".

All of this is of course meant as constructive criticism and I again commend the effort to repair this article to everyone's satisfaction. &lt; el eland  // talk edits  &gt; 17:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much, Eleland, for your thoughtful and measured response. All you suggestions sound reasonable to me, though of course we may need to hear from others one your points. HG | Talk 19:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My apologies, HG, I failed to spot this was going on - is there any point in sending you chunks now? PRtalk 09:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)