User talk:HJ Mitchell/Archive III

The Bill

 * Why thankyou. For the barnstar and for all your efforts at The Bill. I honestly think there are not many reviewers who would have had the patience you did. HJMitchell    You rang?   02:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Brad Pitt
Listen, if you're too busy to get Pitt's article it's understandable. I can ask someone else to do the copy-edit, no worries, really. That way you can go back to with your other tasks, before I came in to "add more" to your life. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  17:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No it's fine, honestly. I've got a lot less on my plate now- the GA nom I was working on passed and I've finished my review of one of the articles I was reviewing . Sorry it took me so long but I'll be able to help you out now. I'll start working my way through it this evening and it'll probably take me a day or two. Does that suit you? HJMitchell    You rang?   19:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ...Only if this doesn't bother your schedule. If it does, no hard feelings, really. But if it doesn't, then please continue with your work. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  19:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not at all, it's nice to do something a little different, it's fine. I've got no plans for the evening anyway so I'll be on it in about 10 minutes (one last thing to check then I'm all yours). HJMitchell    You rang?   19:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't want to interrupt you. Alright, as long as the article isn't interfering with your other work, then please continue. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  22:04, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fine. I'm working on it now. Bit of a gap since my mother phoned me (joy of joys) but I'm on it now. While you're here I have one or two points:

Drop me a line if you want to query anything I've done so far! HJMitchell   You rang?   22:38, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * When you talk about his early jobs in LA, can you find a better way of phrasing it than "ranging from chauffeur to dressing up as a chicken for El Polo Loco"?
 * Do you have a date (or just a month) for his role in Growing Pains?
 * can you be more specific than "moved to the adriatic" (which is a sea- a country or "the Balkans"/ "south east Europe"?
 * Originally, the sentence read like this ---> "While struggling in Los Angeles, he took a variety of occasional jobs, ranging from chauffeuring,[10] being a delivery man,[6] and dressing up as an El Pollo Loco chicken, to pay for his acting classes", see here. But, the "being a delivery man" was removed. Growing Pains appearance (first one) was in November 1987, (second appearance) was in February 1989. The last one IDK, really. Your doing good, keep it up. ;) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  23:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I might see if I can tweak that. I'll look at ading the date for his fisrst appearance in, too. The rest (IMO at least) aren't really crucial, it's just context. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Be my guest [on both]. I trust you to make them both read good. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  23:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll do my best. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:52, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I know you will. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  23:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I just looked at the Fight Club article, and it doesn't really say when the DVD was released. I did a Google search, it looks like it might have been in 2000, so, . Wait, what box office performance? Are you talking about Fight Club ' s box office? I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not good at paraphrasing, so. Well, if you can, please help in anyway you can. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  20:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest you add that in then- just for a little context. Oh, yeah, Fight Club's box office performance- I just chopped and changed bits of the sentence round and can't remember if there was a ref attached to it that I might have misplaced? I gathered as much from reading the comments at the FAC- I've done one or two of the quotes that I could do quickly, I'll take another look later on. I'll see what I can do. Any problems with what I've done so far? HJMitchell    You rang?   21:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Has been added. There was a ref. there. Alright, if you can do that, I applaud you, cause I can't. I've tried doing it, but it's just too hard... damn too hard. Two things, please be careful with the comma settings, (I had to fix it in the Critical success and 1999-2003 section), also please be careful with overlinking, you linked Julia Roberts in the Ocean's 11 part, even though her name is already linked in The Mexican sentence (same section, same paragraph). Overall, you're doing great. :) -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  21:24, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey you.
Hey another Brit, while Viriditas and Drolz is having their little nerd war could you check out my new article, Black Week (Hawaii). —Hawaii Samurai (talk) 06:14, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, there's a few of us on here though most of the people I meet are from t'other side of the Atlantic. What gave it away? Anyway, your article, it looks fine to me- though it'd benefit from a few dates in the prose (not just the infobox). If you need any help round here, just drop me a line! Oh, and keep up the good work!  HJMitchell    You rang?   12:45, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry I took long to respond, the bio of your article says you are and British-English speaker. Actually, I am a poi dog (you can probably determine the other ethnicity by my screen name) If it is not much trouble I would like our opinion of some other articles I made.


 * 1895 Counter-Revolution in Hawaii
 * Hawaii Democratic Revolution of 1954

—Hawaii Samurai (talk) 10:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries! Wow, you like your Hawaii articles, don't you? I'll take a look in a minute. HJMitchell    You rang?   19:54, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, 1895 Counter-Revolution in Hawaii could really do with a few more inline citations, especially for any facts that are likely to be challenged, though I'm guessing from the relative obscurity of the subject (that the article itself admits) that they might not be too easy to come across.
 * As for Hawaii Democratic Revolution of 1954, the [WP:LEAD|lead section]] could do with a little work- it's supposed to concisely summarise the article, rather than provide an intro and, again, it could do with a few more refs but other than that, they look fine. If you create an article with an interesting little "factoid" in it, try nominating for DYK. HJMitchell    You rang?   20:43, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Hiya
Just thought I'd pop by and say hello! How's things been with you since we last spoke about The Bill? Been out today bought myself a new computer keyboard, the key signs were coming off the old cheap one that I had so went out today and bought myself a nice swanky Microsoft one!

Decided to leave the Dale Smith article for just now. I will still do work on it to get it up to GA status, but I'm going to be very busy over the next month what with work and Xmas and I'm also working on getting the Neighbours article up to GA status as well. I can only handle so much!

Have you seen the edit warring that's been going on at Lauren Branning's page? I mean, seriously! I actually had to request for it to be fully protected on Friday night and in my 18 months as an editor I've never needed to do that before! One person got blocked initially for a day I think but he's had his block extended because he chose to attack the person who blocked him. Another editor has been reported for breaching the 3 revert rule, what's happened to them I don't know, but I've never seen anything like it before.

Other than that I'm looking forward to the X Factor finale tonight, and of course to The Bill returning tomorrow. Only thing is now I'm going cold turkey with Neighbours as it's off for it's winter break from Five until 4th January! How are you though? --5 albert square (talk) 18:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, nice to hear form you! Sounds like you've got your hands full. What on earth was all that about? I see you've been having trouble with The Bill as well (writing as of 2010 when it's mid December. Seriously???). I've still got it on my watchlist but you always beat me to it! I bet some passing idiot will get the urge to vandalise it when it's back on air. I've been making the odd excursion to Wikinews, reviewing John Barrowman for GA and, of course, the good old new page patrol and copyediting Brad Pitt. Have you got a reviewer for Neighbours yet btw? How's wiki-life treating you in general (minus the edit warring!)? HJMitchell    You rang?   18:43, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, besides as The Bill is an on-going serial drama, it doesn't really have series as such. Just sometimes it may disappear from ITV's schedules for few weeks due to other scheduling commitments from ITV's side, not The Bill's fault!


 * As for Lauren Branning, that all kicked off when the character temporarily left EastEnders on Friday after her parents split up. The actress has only taken time off to concentrate on her GCSE's or something, yet people were saying she'd left for good, others were saying she was returning in 2010 and some were even saying she can't count 5 Albert Square as her home anymore even though the rest of her family still live there!  Tedder semi-protected it but one editor continued his own wee war and got blocked as a result.


 * Oh guess what? Out shopping yesterday and I bumped into one of The Bill's stars!  I bumped into Siobhan Redmond who I think plays one of the crime scene investigators!  Now why is it sod's law that I couldn't have done that a month or two back, might've saved us some time!  Bumped into her in the ready meals bit at Marks and Spencer!  I'm more annoyed at myself for forgetting that she was also in EastEnders for a few episodes as I've got another editor bothering me at Talk: Laurie Brett to find out Laurie Brett's date of birth.  Google and IMDB have the wrong info so they're no good.  Of course the actress she acted alongside in EastEnders would have to be Laurie Brett so she would've been the best person to ask for the answer, and I go and let her get away without giving me the blooming answer!


 * Other than that life is fine ta lol --5 albert square (talk) 19:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah well, "I asked her in M&S t'other day" is probably not a good source anyway! I never understood edit warring- it seems even more pointless than vandalism to me. Have people not got better things to do? I could think of a dozen things off the top of my head that are more useful to the wiki!
 * It'll be disappearing left right and centre next summer for the bloody football so make the most of it! Have you got a reviewer for Neighbours yet? HJMitchell    You rang?   22:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha, no it would probably not be a good source. Nope, no reviewer for Neighbours yet.  That reminds me, I was going to set up a Wikipedia page for part of it's set, something still on my 'to do' list which always seems to get longer, not shorter!  --5 albert square (talk) 22:36, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha! There's always something needs doing! I'll take a look at it for you at some point- see if I can do anything useful. I suppose I could do the review since I'm not involved with the article. How long has it been waiting- I don't want to give an appearance of impropriety but if you've been waiting for bloody ages, I don't see the harm. What do you think? HJMitchell    You rang?   22:51, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh tell me about it! It's been waiting since about October time.  I just looked at the cast section and it's a nightmare, repeated information, templates that no longer worked, you name it.  I've just made some suggestions at Talk: Neighbours about how it can be improved.  Yeah that would sound good!  --5 albert square (talk) 23:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're happy with that then, I'll do it. Normally I wouldn't do it for an editor I "knew" (I think you're actually the most frequent editor of my talk page after me! Haha!) but hey, you've been waiting way too long really. I'll create the review page now, but then I'm going to bed, I've been up for nearly 30 hours. I'll make some comments in the morning. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:54, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --5 albert square (talk) 00:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Meh, for you, it's no problem. I've created the review page and updated WP:GAN. I'd suggest you watchlist the review page but I'll drop you a line when I've done my review. I anticipate this might not be totally plain sailing but I'm hoping it won't be as hard work as The Bill was! We'll see, anyway. Goodnight, HJMitchell    You rang?   00:13, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

{undent}It's now added, I'll also post on all the regular contributors talk page and ask them to start contributing to it's good article status! --5 albert square (talk) 00:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Good idea. I'm happy to discuss any points with anyone here or on the review page (ye, I'm still up, I caught a G12 in the new pages!). HJMitchell    You rang?   00:28, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon Pearl- Action Reaplay Codes (North America)
Hello. I am here to talk to you about the article I made. It says it will be a speedy deletion soon. It is not promoting any sites. I am only saying where the codes where from. I also made some of them. And I was going to add the picture of the game box with all its info later. I had spent 2hrs making the article so I needed a little rest. Then I wanted to see how it was doing and I see the notice.

Can you please not delete it?

IiDevil (talk) 19:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC) (iiDevil or IiDevil)


 * I hope HJ doesn't mind me posting a passing comment on his page.


 * I just noticed your message Li Devil and notice that the page has already been deleted. If you contact one of these admins they may be able to userfy the page for you.  However this will depend on the actual page itself.  Hope this helps :) --5 albert square (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry it took me so long to respond, and no 5asq, I don't mind you answering on my behalf, especially since I was offline briefly. IiDevil, if you follow the link 5 albert square provides, you can ask one of those administrators to email you a copy of the page. The reason it was deleted is that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia of notable, verifiable topics not a place for people to post game codes (whether they're yours, someone else's or whatever). I don't mean to sound condescending by this, but try publishing them on a blog or somewhere, but not Wikipedia. Don't be put off editing though- no self respecting editor hasn't had a page deleted- it's happened to me twice! HJMitchell    You rang?   22:40, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

OK I wil contact one of those Admins thanks :3 IiDevil (talk) 22:50, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Neighbours
Hi there, I've just seen that you'll be reviewing the Neighbours article for GA status. Just wanted to say hi and that me and 5 albert square are bracing ourselves for all the things the article may be pulled up on. I'd ask you to be gentle, but I don't think that's how it works. :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 00:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries. I worked with 5asq on The Bill's GA bid and I think we understand each other. If there's a problem, I'll hold it open for as longs as it needs and I can help you with copyediting issues. I explained to 5asq above that I'll start the review "proper" in the morning and drop you both a line when I've made my comments. Feel free to discuss anything here or at the review page, which I'd respectfully suggest you watchlist. I'll look forward to working with you. All the best, HJMitchell    You rang?   00:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Have just seen your review and I don't think what you've said came as too much of a surprise, to be honest. I raised the issue of the Locations and Awards problem's last with 5asq. I guess I'll get to work then... :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 19:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, don't be too disheartened, it's all doable. At least it's not a surprise to you. Have fun and just drop me a line if you need anything explaining or clarifying! I'll be on and off for most of the rest of the day. Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   19:41, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I'm just going to try and work through the list starting with the lead, I'm using Eastenders and The Bill as a template for this. I'll be waiting for 5asq to come online and see what he has to say. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha, another one that thinks I'm male!


 * If I'm quite honest, none of the review is a surprise. I've made a couple of minor edits meantime but I'll have a proper look at it later --5 albert square (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry 5asq! I suppose that's karma for thinking I was Australian. :P
 * I was just wondering when you have a minute, HJ, if you could have a look at the new lead for the article. I've edited and hopefully improved it. I know you mentioned that references shouldn't be included, but the Eastenders article uses them when it mentions awards, so I've done the same. However, they can be easily removed if necessary. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha, June that's ok, HJ thought the same once too!


 * Anyway, I've made quite a few edits tonight, merged some sections together, when you get a sec could you please take a look let me know what you think?


 * Also, you say that the table is quite long. I'm going to be removing the cast section at some point and placing it on another page so quite a lot of that will be disappearing soon.  I think I'm going to do it like EastEnders do theirs where there's reference to the template in the infobox but nowhere else --5 albert square (talk) 23:47, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, 5asq, you know better than anyone how much work went into The Bill before it was passed. If you and JuneGloom put as much effort into this as you did there, you'll have no troubles. At least you've got someone you know! Oh, and why don't you say you're female on your user page if everyone thinks you're male? Haha! I've never had the problem personally, but I am male (and English if anyone's wondering)! HJMitchell    You rang?   01:18, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I hope I don't have that sort of work again! I'm actually watching our old friend The Bill just now.  And there's not a Wiki template that says "this user is female!" that I could find!  I put that I like chocolate everyday (found a template for that), that should be a giveaway!  --5 albert square (talk) 01:26, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * 5asq, I have a 'This user is female' box on my user page. I think it was the Albert in your user name that made me automatically think you were male. Right, I'm going to bed, I'll get back to work on the awards page tomorrow. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just welcomed them and asked them if they'd kindly refrain from adding that in to the article. Hopefully that'll solve the problem. I'll have a look at Neighbours in a mo and see how it's coming along. HJMitchell    You rang?   02:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi. I've been working on the characters section for most of the day. I've moved the cast lists to a seperate article, except for the notable and guest characters as I wasn't too sure what to do with them. I've now decided to follow The Bill's example in displaying the notable cast members and I'm currently working on that. I was just wondering how many notable cast members would be appropriate to have on the main article? The list currently contains 22 actors and characters and I was thinking of cutting it down to about 13 and placing the rest on the newly named/created List of characters from Neighbours. What are your thoughts? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 18:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're on the right lines, definitely. I'd suggest you copy The Bill's format:

Actor played character from Year X to Year Y (or present)[ref]. Actor has appeared in...[ref]. Leave plot and character information (except for the reason for a character being written out) for the actor's and character's entry respectively. Keep it to a nice concise summary and keep the list as short as you can without omitting anyone important and put at the top of the section. How's the rest of it coming along? Keeo uo the godd work and drop by if you need anyhting (I'll likely be on here or Wikinews until the early hours!). Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   19:09, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I've been following that method and it's going well. I would say my only problem is with actors like Russell Crowe who played a character who isn't notible enough to have their own page and only played them for a few episodes. The actor is more notable then the part. I'll try and work with whatever info I find, I guess. I think the article is going okay so far. I've mainly been working on the awards (Neighbours has won more than just Logies, it turns out) and the character sections. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 20:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well if the actor is notable but not the character, I'd be inclined to say he shouldn't be included in that list. What I suggest you do for that kind of thing is create (another) new article- something like List of celebrity guest appearances in Neighbours for that kind of thing and, underneath your main article hatnote, put and put a little prose in there about the actors (again, I'd suggest following The Bill) and a sentence or two about the celebrity guests. Any help?  HJMitchell    You rang?   20:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * That's been a great help, thanks. I have 10 more notable cast members to complete. I'm just debating whether to add Alan Fletcher and Jackie Woodburne to the list. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 00:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

(undent)Hi, don't worry, I was in the middle of editing Neighbours: Celebrity Guest Appearances when you messaged me! It's just that Wikipedia has a habit of logging me out after a while so I kinda created the page, dumped the names, saved it and then went looking for another template to use! Anyway it's taken me all night but the template on it should be looking ok now. Meanwhile I'm off to do some rollbacking before bed! --5 albert square (talk) 00:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * (June)Glad to be of help. I'd consult with 5asq with that because I don't know anything about Neighbours! If you think their role was significant enough, add it in.
 * (5asq)No worries, it does that to me randomly, too! Bloody annoying if you're in the middle of editing! I'll have a look and see how things are coming along. Have fun rollbacking. Let me know if you see anything particularly amusing! I'll be on the new pages for a little while if you want me! HJMitchell    You rang?   02:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha, nothing so far, I wanna go to bed but I just ain't tired!! Last night I did come across something interesting though, someone stating on their talk page that they wanted to murder someone.  Needless to say that I suggested that they were blocked and their talk page wiped!  Oh and our little friend has been back at The Bill's pages.  He only got unblocked yesterday from the last vandalism he carried out on the factual info we have on Dale Smith!  He's now blocked again but this time for 3 months.  Needless to say I'm expecting sockpuppetry to happen --5 albert square (talk) 03:13, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do people bother? Where was he this time? Might be worth checking the WHOIS report. If you get more trouble, just revert 'em and take it straight to AIV or (for more eyes and a more complicated situation, ANI). It never ceases to amaze me what people write on here!


 * Ha, yeah this time he was active on List of The Bill episodes/19. That editor never ceases to amaze me.  This time he invented a police constable called William Race, when I reported him I just included a link to The Bill's official website and told admin to look on that if they thought it was a good faith edit.  Admin can't argue with facts!  --5 albert square (talk) 03:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * WTF? And yes, they can argue with fact! If you've ever weighed in at ANI or AfD...! Haha! Anyway, I'm now going to bed because it's getting on for 4am and I have real world things to take care of tomorrow. I'll be on here and WN when I get up and in the evening so say hi if you need anything! HJMitchell    You rang?   03:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Finally, you have a blue bar from me. :P - JuneGloom07 (talk) 17:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

moved below HJMitchell   You rang?

Coming down the pike...
User:Viriditas/John Barrowman - It's gonna take a few days. Feel free to help out if you have access to the sources. Some (possibly many) appear to be online. Viriditas (talk) 11:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do! I had a look at copyediting it yesterday. Keep up the good work. HJMitchell    You rang?   16:59, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know how much of a sleuth you are, but if you can find this interview anywhere, it might help: "Wayne, George. (Nov. 1995). "Johnny Handsome: Central Park West's fresh prince". Vanity Fair; Conde Nast Publications, Inc. Issue 423, p.169. ISSN: 0733-8899. No biggie if you can't.  Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I found this, but it's onlly an abstract. I'll keep looking, see if I can find anything of more use. HJMitchell    You rang?   03:13, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not a big deal, it just seemed to have some info that could help. Don't sweat it.  I though maybe you might have someone in your family who had access to Vanity Fair from 1995 or a library.  :) Viriditas (talk) 03:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of, unfortunately. 1995 is going back a way! I also stumbled across this while I was trawling through the web. Don't know if you've already seen it? HJMitchell    You rang?   03:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's listed as the first reference in the link I gave you above. What you linked to is an old bio from 2002 (v.43). I have the new one from 2009 (you should be able to find it if you look hard enough, it's v.92) I can't find the US magazine article either. Viriditas (talk) 03:36, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, never mind. I just bumped into it while I was looking for the other interview, I'll swing by the article alter on. I'm just in the process of writing an article on Wikinews atm. Keep up the good work. HJMitchell    You rang?   14:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello!
Morning! (just) Sorry I havent been around, Been doing things like this Alan_Thompson_(swimming_coach) --220.101.28.25 (talk) 11:56, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well good morning! Nice to hear from an old friend! How's things down under? Glad to see you're still around! HJMitchell    You rang?   12:09, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Some good, some a bit iffy. Got very involved in the famous 2009 Whitehouse Gatecrash Incident. Which happened, as things do, just as I wanted(needed) to go to bed. Got reverted for 'recentism' yesterday here Geoffrey_Edelsten. Started a real bunfight by asking an 'innocent' question here Talk:Animal_testing. Worked on a bio here Alan_Thompson_(swimming_coach) expanding it from 2 lines to MUCH bigger. (Some 'funny business' allegedly going on in Ozzie Olympic swimming coaching) Otherwise, been all over the place. Take a look if you like, especially the Animal Testing 'discussion'. I think well sourced BLP are much safer! Getting late, may not be able to reply till tomorrow, if then. Regards --220.101.28.25 (talk) 13:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, that's the trouble with trying to have a conversation with someone on the other side of the world! People do get a bit fussy about "recentism" on here because, obviously, an encyclopaedia is supposed to represent things in historical context. I might take a look later on, I'm on wikinews at the minute. It's a lot quieter on there than WP- they've got a dozen or so regular editors, compared to WP's several hundred and flagged revisions which is... different! I don't much like it myself, but then, with ~5500 edits here, I'm not used to it! Anyway, drop by tomorrow! It's always a pleasure to hear from you, HJMitchell    You rang?   14:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Bonxy


The article Bonxy has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * States that it is WP:MADEUP.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Gosox5555 (talk) 22:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Erm, nice template, but I didn't create the article. I've just moved it to the creator's userpage since that seems to be the intention of it and tagged for CSD R2 as a cross namespace redirect. Thanks anyway, HJMitchell    You rang?   22:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... That appears to be a case of WP:Twinkle-gone-wild. Did you see the CSD template on the page?  Article namespace pages can't (or shouldn't) redirect to the User namespace.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gosox5555 (talk • contribs) 22:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I put it on. WP:R2- a redirect from mainspace to any namespace other than template... Yeah, I know CSD almost by heart. If it was Twinkle, it will have notified me because I'm the only contributor (since the history is at the new page location). Anyway, it was speedied as an R2 so problem solve. If I may, though, I'd suggest you check the page history before whacking the twinkle button because it's quite a potent tool that has the occasional tendency to f**k things up! It is useful, though! Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   02:24, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I have a question! Please HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi there, HJMitchell

Is there any pages that you would like me to write? I'll do my best. I promise. I've learned my lesson.

Faithfully, --Julia Howard 02:03, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Merry Christmas! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dottyslurp (talk • contribs) 02:03, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, WP:Requested articles is a good place to start- pick a topic that interests you, find an article title you can handle and do a little research. If it's notable, create it to a decent stub (or better if you can) with a few decent references (google news and some of the pages on my subpage might be able to help. Or, if you're looking for something to kill a few minutes without getting committed, you can have a look at the recent changes and look for vandals (you might want to install Huggle or Twinkle (the one I use) to help you) and just revert them, warn them and, if you have to, report them. Alternatively, you might like to go to WP:GAN and review an article for good article status, then ask me or someone else to check it. If you get stuck or all of that just looks boring and you want more suggestions, just ask! Oh, and when you contribute to a talk page, you should sign your name with ~ (you can change the look of your sig in your preferences. Merry Christmas!  HJMitchell    You rang?   02:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Me (220) again
Isn’t it time you got some sleep? (Probably are by now. I am too SLOW writing back.) Don’t make my mistake of falling asleep over the keyboard (like me last night)! Noticed you had a look at the Swimming Coach article. Better than the stub it was! Another Ozzie Olympic coach (Terry Buck-deceased 2005) has no article at present, one was created but deleted about the 9th as it was an attack page. He competed in 1964 Olympics, but has now been publicly accused of more than 'innapropriate' behaviour towards his students. I have collated info. on him & references here on my talk page, including pro and con reports.
 * 1) Is Terry Buck a suitable topic, at this time, for an article?
 * 2) When I leave a message like this do you get a “notification” box come up on your screen? If yes, easier than using the “talkback” thingy.
 * 3) Do you know anything about radio, RF, etc? Or know an editor who does and can explain things simply? I need help simplifying related articles that are written in such a technical way (or so poorly by non tech savvy (or POV) editors) that I can’t understand them. And I am/was a Radio Technical Officer by training. If I can’t follow them, how can the average reader?

Wow, OK, one thing at a time!
 * I'll have a look at that material for you and give you a yay or a nay in a mo
 * If it was zapped as a G10, then it will raise an eyebrow if it's recreated. I'll find the admin who deleted it and drop them a note.
 * You'll have to be careful to source information about those accusations and writing neutrally about them
 * Yes, I get a big orange bar that says I have new messages that doesn't go away til i click it. I believe you get one, even though you don't log in?
 * I don't know anything about that sort of thing. I'm sure there's someone on WP who does, but i can't think who off the top of my head. One of these templates might be helpful in the meantime.

I'll be back in a few minutes and I'll tell you if he's suitable for an article and answer your other questions! Guessing by the hour though, you've probably gone to bed. HJMitchell   You rang?   15:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

If you have the time
Here is one thing I have re-written and left on the articles talk page for comment. It’s about the Thing (listening device/BUG) that WAS found in a US Embassy. See if you can follow it. Text below line is NEW text by me that I need to cite, though I KNOW it is correct, and this section is not cited in the article anyway. I went back to the references (#3&4) that are used and found the current text does not follow it. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 06:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Still here, shouldn't be. Need to get some sleep. Was up collecting info for Second Sydney Airport Yes I do get a message bar if someone puts a message on my talk page. Found out it worked that way when I logged onto my page from another physical location/IP. Thought the tallback 'thingy' was the only way to do that.??
 * Not too fussed about the swimming coach thing. I was able to access a cached version of the deleted article, but not any more. It was all negative. But I have his Olympic stuff as well. Have more important things to do actually which I am neglecting. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 15:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I was about to leave you a "talkback" but you beat me to it! I had a look at the stuff you've collected and I think there's enough there to write a decent article. If you want somewhere to keep it without crowding your talk page, feel free to stick it in one of my subpages- User:HJ Mitchell/Sandbox is empty atm. I don't mind people editing them, and it gives you more room on your page. If you want to do that, I can just create it for you (you need an account to create a page) and leave you to it. I'll let the admin who deleted it know first, though (there's a good chance it's someone I know, I'll check the log). Isn't it past 3am there? I thought only I edited WP at that time in the morning! HJMitchell    You rang?   16:13, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes it is past 3am. I'll think about the Terry Buck article. Not too worried about the space it's taking unless there is a limit to my talk page usage? I can, well I have already haven't I?, write the article ready to be 'dumped' onto the Article page as soon as needed. No deadline, and I need to check what is happening with the allegations. Many people swear they shared a room with him and nothing happened. There are also business dealing mixed up in it so maybe the accuser has another motive? BUT these things happen. Just last 24 hours some guy got busted here for going up to kids in different McDonalds'and kissing them!! Teddy tells me its time to sleep. Bye!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 16:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No, there's no limit. I just thought you might want somewhere to put it but if you're happy with it there. Fair enough, let me know when you want to do it and I'll just create it for you. Probably sensible! Drop me a line when you're online next. HJMitchell    You rang?   16:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Terry Buck
Sure, go ahead and re-create it. You may want to "sandbox" it first, and add while you're at it. Bearian (talk) 16:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thankyou. I believe 220 is working on it on his talk page to put into article space as and when. I just thought it was worth letting you know my plans since you deleted it and especially since it was deleted as a G10 rather than an A7 or something. Best,  HJMitchell    You rang?   16:57, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, this was about the coach who had some sex scandal, right? It needs to be reasonably balanced and properly cited. Bearian (talk) 17:19, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, as should any WP article. From what I can see, he's notable for being a swimming coach who happened to get himself into an abuse scandal, as opposed to being notable as an alleged child abuser who happens to have been a swimming coach. It's definitely something I'll keep an eye on, though I won't myself have a lot to do with the article besides that and formatting. Thanks for your help, HJMitchell    You rang?   17:30, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

← HJM if you are reading this in real time it's late! ZZZZZ time!. I just checked and, at least, there is no other "Terry Buck" on Wikipedia. I checked WWW previously and I recall that there ARE others on the Internet. Need to ensure they are not mistaken for THIS Terry Buck. (hell there are heaps of me on the Internet and VERY notable people too!!! More famous than me anyway.) Buck does get a mention HERE and HERE. He was HEAD Coach of the Ozzie OLYMPIC Swimming team. Apparently only person in Oz to compete, coach, manage at Olympic/International levels. So notable yes. Will have to see how the allegations pan out, if others come forward. There was mention of a list of 29 people given to police by the original complainant. Would need to be named “Terry Buck (Swimming coach)” to disambiguate, and consistency with other existing articles. All in good time, no deadline! Now, I have to go and do real world things. Later!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, since there's not other individual of the same name currently on WP, I believe the MoS says we we go with just the name. If it matters, we (or I) can create a Terry Buck (disambiguation) later on but there's little point if it's full of red links. If a more notable individual comes along, it's easy to move it to a less ambiguous title (or it is for me, with an account, 2 clicks). What are the others notable for? I can create them for you if you want to write about them, but I'd suggest one at a time!! I'll not be on much today (my birthday) because I've got a 12 year old single malt in my cupboard! Drop me a line, though, and we'll sort something. As you say, there's no dealine. HJMitchell    You rang?   11:52, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Trigger-happy
In what way? Don't you do that when you patrol articles? Deb (talk) 22:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. Yes, I do. I spend a considerable amount of time patrolling new pages, but I give them a few minutes before I start adding tags unless it's so dire it needs to be deleted, for the same reason Special:NewPages advises against tagging articles with A1 or A3 "moments after creation". I personally feel it's better to wait a few minutes and see what the creator does next because nobody can create a Featured Article in one edit. Regards, HJMitchell    You rang?   22:43, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you notice that I also fixed the references section? Deb (talk) 22:43, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I did, yes. Thankyou- I actually got an edit conflict with you attempting to do it myself. I've created a fair few articles and every time I forget to add reflist in my first edit. HJMitchell    You rang?   22:47, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, in time you won't. The thing is that, when I'm patrolling new pages, I'm going through them very quickly and I don't spend time checking whether the contributor is new, I just flag them up if appropriate, so that someone else sees that they need work.  There are contributors who look out for that, and you'll usually find that an article with the uncategorized tag doesn't stay that way for long!  You might argue that I should do it myself - and sometimes I do - but there are so many new articles that I just like to whip them off the list as quickly as possible.  It's nothing personal. Deb (talk) 22:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I know where you're coming from. I personally use popups to tell me about the author (it gives you their rights, first edit date and edit count). I know it's nothing personal- it's hard to make it personal when one patrols hundreds of pages, though I did have someone vandalise my user page earlier because I marked their page for CSD. I still think it's worth waiting a few minutes before tagging brand new pages, but I suppose everyone has a different approach to new page patrolling. Thanks for your help and for replying. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, you're right, I should get familiar with that facility. Deb (talk) 12:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, one of the beauties of WP is that there are all sorts of things to make things easier or quicker. It's all just a matter of preference. Nice talking to you anyway- it's good to know I'm not the only one on the new pages! HJMitchell    You rang?   15:25, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

This STINKS!
Dear HJMitchell,

Jauerback keeps telling me that I edited a message when I didn't. Oh, how do you change your username? I'm very curious about how Wikipedia works. It's the best!

---Julia Howard 01:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and happy new year of 2010! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dottyslurp (talk • contribs) 01:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Neighbours II

 * The awards section (List of awards and nominations received by Neighbours) is pretty much done, at last! I just have to add some more refs and add an 'Other Awards' section and it'll be complete (hopefully). I'll try and start work on some of the other points on the list tomorrow. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:08, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've been looking at the 'Video Game' section and I'm not sure it can be expanded beyond what it is. There isn't much info about the game online (I struggled to find the current reference for it). I was just wondering if we could get away with combining the section with 'DVD releases' under a new heading like, 'Home Media'? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

No offence, but that's a horrible phrase! Besides, I think it's probably OK where it is as long as it has essential information and a reference. It's not that important in the scheme of things so I'd advise leaving it there. The characters section is definitely much improved- aesthetically and in terms of content. I'd suggest that you stick with only the most notable, though- those who have been in it for a considerable amount of time (are there any who've been in it since the start?) and actors who are well known for Neighbours but have had other notable roles (Kylie, Donovan?). HJMitchell   You rang?   17:06, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right, that was a horrible phrase. Okay, I'll leave the video game section as it is. There aren't any characters who have been in the show from the start. Paul Robinson appeared in the first episode and is currently still in the show, but he left in 1992 before returning in 2004. Lou Carpenter is the currently the longest serving character, having been in the show since 1992. I have listed them both at the bottom of the notable cast members list. Kylie and Jason are also included in the list. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha! The video games section is good- it inspires you to go hunting for more info to make it appear longer in order to impress the GA reviewer, meanwhile, if more info is released in future, someone else might be inspired to add it in. That's the beauty of Wikipedia! As for the cast, are all those characters notable? I'm sure most of them are, and I'm aware that The Bill's is quite long, but if there's any that could be removed, it might be an idea. HJMitchell    You rang?   18:24, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've removed Radha Mitchell from the list in the Neighbours article to the main notable cast list on the List of characters from Neighbours page. That leaves 10 notable cast members listed in the Neighbours article, is this still too many? I could probably delete one or two more. Should I try and cut down the main notable cast list on List of characters from Neighbours? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 18:35, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If they can be removed without the list lacking something, go for it. As for the last, what we did at List of characters of The Bill was to duplicate the list of notables, List the current cast and upcoming changes and then list all past and present cast in alphabetical order with all the character and plot info there (spread over four different list articles!). It was kind of thrust upon us because there was a mass AfD and listifying long before I signed up to WP but it works! HJMitchell    You rang?   22:20, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, I was just looking at the list of things to do for the Neighbours review. I'm a little confused, you mention for the locations section to put it prose and not in a table.  I'm not sure what you mean by that though as it's not in a table?  Also you say under the broadcast schedule that the prose needs a little work, I've looked up WP:PROSE and to be honest I can't understand a word of it!  Nor can I see how it's relating to any of the Neighbours article, therefore am really struggling to understand what's needed  --5 albert square (talk) 01:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed I do. That is strange. Just ignore it until I can figure out what I meant! Haha! Are you working on that section? I have some concerns about it that I don't think I articulated properly in the review. I think there's a lot of fluff in there and some of it may be OR. That may be one of our biggest hurdles to GA but if it can be shortened to include only the most relevant inforamtion (remember we're an encyclopaedia not a fansite and many people reading the article are likely not to give a flying f***!). Sorry for the confusion there, I'll let you know if I figure out what I meant! Any other issues you've come across? Btw, I saw you reverted the edit I flagged up on The Bill. HJMitchell    You rang?   01:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha I'll leave that to you then. With the article I'm struggling with the parts that are needing work on WP:PROSE as I really don't understand a word of what that page says!  I don't see how any of it is relating to Neighbours, particularly the storyline section.


 * With The Bill, I reverted it because the only evidence I could find to state that it was on 3 times a week was some sort of fansite for Sean Bean! I certainly don't remember it being on 3 tmes a week unless STV screened it twice a week and ITV screened it three times a week.  However even that wouldn't make sense as ITV would be 'gaining' 1 episode per week making them 'gain' an extra 3 months of episodes per year, STV would be left trailing way behind if that happened!  --5 albert square (talk) 02:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't read that page (frankly, I have better things to do! I've read the "front page" of the MoS and the more important style guidlines but even as a copyeditor, I've not read them all!) but basically, a GA should be "relatively well written" which means, in terms of prose, that sentences flow neatly into one another, it doesn't jump around the place and makes the point concisely. It doesn't have to be as "engaging" as a FA but it should be pleasant to read. For example, "the cat sat on a black mat and later proceeded to put on a hat" read a lot better than "the cat sat on the mat. The mat was black. The cat then put on a hat." Basically?
 * avoid short sentences where you can combine a few to make one better sentence
 * write it for the readers (sounds daft, I know). Try to engage them with your writing.


 * If that's no help, I'll try and help you out in the morning. I'll be around for an hour or so but I'm working on something else so I can't really commit but I'll offer advice here as and when you need it so don't be afraid to query anything! HJMitchell    You rang?   02:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

(undent)Hi again HJ, I've re-worded the storylines section so hopefully it should now be more prose. The 2000s section was originally split into 4 sections, I've now merged that and made it two sections. I didn't really see the point in splitting it up so much, however I've left the 25th anniversary as it's own section. The fact that Neighbours are going to the bother of revamping the set and the theme tune for it obviously means that they're going to make a big deal of this and it's going to be notable so therefore in my opinion it merits it's own section. Could you please take a quick look over this later and check everything is ok? --5 albert square (talk) 03:24, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Will do. I agree with you on all of that. It didn't need to be split into that amny sections- there are quite a few section headings that could easily be taken out if you ask me. The 25th anniversary stuff can have a separate heading- as I recall we did something similar with the live episodes of The Bill. That's where the good prose comes into play- if you can flow between related topics easily, it makes it much more engaging to read. I'll take a look as soon as I get chance and then again when I get up to make sure I didn't miss anything as frequently happens when one edits at 4AM! You're doing good work. HJMitchell    You rang?   03:48, 18 December 2009 (UTC)




 * Hi again, ok it would appear that despite the fact I WAS working on the storylines section to make it more storyline like, one editor has decided that it's not worth putting in the article and has deleted the entire section! Does the article still look ok to you or would you rather that the storyline section was re-inserted?  --5 albert square (talk) 12:14, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd be inclined to say that's an editorial decision. I think some of the information is useful but we don't have a "storylines" section in The Bill as such. It might be better to reinsert small bits of into a history section or something. It might be worth starting a thread on the talk page and inviting the other editor to discuss it with you. It's not my place to dictate how it should be laid out- I just tell you what you need to do to get it to GA. How you do it is up to you but, as a friend not a reviewer, I'd say that if you're going to revert, raise it on the talk page. Have you asked June Gloom 07 she thinks? Any help? HJMitchell    You rang?   12:41, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's ok I spoke to the editor concerned, he just hadn't looked at the talk page before making the edit tsk tsk! only kidding!  It was a good faith edit so I asked the editor to join in with the GA stuff and I can see he's quite happily tapping away at his keyboard as we speak!  I was going to see what needed done just now but I think June is also on the article at the moment and you know what they say about too many cooks!  --5 albert square (talk) 21:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Can't hurt to have another pair of eyes on it but you don't want to be getting edit conflicts- there's nothing more annoying! I've just added you a couple of sentences to the awards section- I don't have time but could you add some of the refs from the awards article to it. HJMitchell    You rang?   21:35, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, sure I'll do it later on once everyone's stopped editing. Quite a few of your points, if not all of your points now covered on Neighbours!  --5 albert square (talk) 21:54, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Danny F II
Hi, I've created the MV Danny F II article, and noticed you'd created the Sinking of the Danny F II article. I feel that the best option here would be to redirect your article to the article on the ship which I created. What do you think? Mjroots (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Go for it. Fell free to merge or cut and paste anything in mine that's useful. I've nominated it for ITN, but it's easy enough to change a link. Probably best to keep it together- no use duplicating content and if the sinking gains further notability (unlikely, but I've done a few of these and you can never quite tell) we can always split again. I'll change the relevant links and help out on yours since you've got the aesthetics (I'm no good with infoboxes and similar fiddly things!). Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   08:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

ITN for MV Danny F II
Dear, HJMitchell

How do you change your username?

Sincerely, --Julia Howard 23:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dottyslurp (talk • contribs)

VANDAL !
Hmmmmmmmm, Whiskey. Oh sorry, I have detected a Vandal! User_talk:130.49.31.57 used a naughty word innappropiately ie pedophile (or more correctly paedophile in HM The Queens' English) in the Quebec Winter Carnival article HERE. Was there for 4½ hours too!
 * I have deleted said foul slander &
 * Threatened said miscreant with Hellfire & Damnation for Eternity. Well actually just a slap on the wrist.
 * WHOIS gives "University of Pittsburgh"
 * Guy made the mistake of fiddling with the Arbeit macht frei article. Might, be an idea to protect this as good faith dopes editors keep adding that the sign was stolen, even though it is already in the article. And I've now removed the redundant info 3 times!
 * Anything else I should do? --220.101.28.25 (talk) 09:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing more you can do. I have my own opinions on what we should do with mindless vandals (not all of the though, some of them make me laugh so much I struggle to hit the rollback button!) but WP policy doesn't allow it and I'm not clever enough to make computer viruses that say "if you vandalise WP again, your computer will explode. The scary admins and rollbackers know where you live!" but if the WHOIS comes back to a residential address, they tend to get scared off when you address the warning to them by name!
 * Protection wouldn't do much because I'm sure a fair few of them will be autoconfirmed and thus able to edit through it (unless it's fully protected so only admins can edit it, but that's rare). You like editing on subjects in the news, don't you! I'm the same- you might find P:CE (you have to be autoconfirmed to edit the page itself but the dateboxes are fine) or WP:ITN/C interesting. Both only have a small number of editors who keep them ticking over. Are you going to want me to create that article for you any time soon? Not that we're in a rush. HJMitchell    You rang?   16:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Just as I woke up after nodding off over my keyboard (seriously I did AGAIN!) I got your message.Yes, this person is a goose, looks like they tried to 'cover up' by linking a few terms in the article before disappearing. (Forever? Hopefully!) I'll have another look at the article before I dissapear for a few more hours rest. Interesting article on the MV Danny, mainly as here it didn't rate the slightest mention on the news, so I was surprised to see it. That other article we've been discussing can wait for now. Indeed it can, but if you're bored (or WP is missing something), you might like that portal and project page I linked. I'll keep an eye on him. Unfortunately, you generally have to no fewer than 4 warnings to report them which can be frustrating, though sometimes fortunate. I'll hover on their contribs if they reemerge. If it's a university IP, they probably will but the trouble is it could be a different person. As fro your question, I take it you mean the light emitting objects contained in electric lamps? It's a lightbulb in British English (which is an ironically American term). As for the Danny, MjRoots can take the credit for that- he had the article up and running long before I read about it. I just nominated for the main page. Odd that it wasn't mentioned. The Sydney Morning Herald tends to have some useful info about those sorts of things. HJMitchell   You rang?   22:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC) Hi,
 * Question on terminology came up on a talk page, very important, do you say 'light globe' or 'light bulb'? Thanks!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 19:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Where is the clipboard?

Sincerely, --Julia Howard 19:17, 19 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dottyslurp (talk • contribs)

Neighbours III
Hi, a new editor has joined in editing the Neighbours article. One of the (many) edits they have made is to add information and pictures on the different Neighbours opening titles over the years. I feel that this information shouldn't be in the article, the Eastenders article doesn't seem to contain information about opening sequences, but The Bill does have a section about them. I was wondering if the information should be removed or changed. I'd really like your opinion on this. Thanks - JuneGloom07 (talk) 16:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, The Bill's theme tune is (or was) quite iconic and attracted a lot of attention when it was changed earlier this year which is why I decided to give it a section in its own right. I don't think Neighbours needs anything like the level of detail we went into in The Bill because it's not as iconic and hasn't received the same kind of coverage in the sources. It probably gets undue weight as it is in The Bill, but that's not really an issue for a GA review. I suppose the problem is we don't have a precedent since none of these are FA class and are, frankly, unlikely ever to be, especially while the series are ongoing. If I was an editor at Neighbours, my personal preference would be to give it a mention, but I think you ought to establish consensus (and not just you and 5asq v the other editor, have a sensible, editorial discussion) on the talk page, on your own talk pages, or here if you like. I don't personally think it merits its own section, but it's good to give some information on it. A word of warning though- value all the help you can get- every editor brings something new to the table and, who knows, something I raised in the review might be their area of expertise. HJMitchell    You rang?   17:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your reply. User:Abgreen posted a message about the titles section on the talk page, so I'll take up the issue there. Please don't get me wrong, I do value other editors and their perspective(s) on the article. I apologize if it came across that I didn't. In fact I was very happy when I saw User:Abgreen had added a new titles picture (I prefer it to the other one). I don't know how to upload pictures, so they came in very handy. Thank you again. :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 17:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't quite mean it like that, things always translate badly to text! I just meant that, if you decided against a new section, you didn't want to leave the other editor feeling isolated or "ganged-up on". If you haven't already, might be an idea to drop by their talk page and introduce yourself since the three of us know each other pretty well now and a lot of discussion is taking place in the user talk space (mainly because it's far too long to swamp the review or talk pages with!). Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   17:56, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see what you mean, I got a little confused there! I have already introduced myself and told Abgreen about the article being up for GA status, where the review can be found and thanking them for their contributions. I have also added a reply about the titles section on the talk page. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 18:10, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, like I say, always translates badly to type! I saw your message- I just went to introduce myself and point them to one of our talk pages if they need a hand. I'm just about to take a look at the article now and tweak anything I think needs it, then I might have some more comments on the review page. HJMitchell    You rang?   18:17, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm looking forward to reading the new comments you have to make about the article. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 18:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ I've made some more comments- don't be disheartened by the quantity though, most of them can be fixed with half an hour or so spent on each. I'm going to contact an editor who knows more about fair use images than I do and get back to you on the screenshots. HJMitchell    You rang?   19:50, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the new comments, I'll get working on some of them and I'll let the other editors know. I also had a few concerns about the fair use images after I saw the editor had been warned about images they've uploaded in the past (I hope I don't look too bad for checking their talk page history) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 20:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. As I say, with some hard work, we'll get there. I'll much in as and when I can. I hate edit conflicts though (nothing more annoying) so it might well be some absurd time of the early morning. And no, it doesn't make you look bad! I use popups which takes about 10 seconds to tell me someone's rights, first edit and edit count! It's a crude barometer of someone's experience and you get to read part of their userpgae without having to click on it (slow internet!)! HJMitchell    You rang?   20:25, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I was just wondering what your suggestions are for the theme song section? I'm aware that it is long, but I'm unsure how the information should be presented. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 22:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * A good question. I'm pondering creating a separate article which, I think, would solve most of the problems, especially since it's a song in its own right. Either that, or take all the subheadings out and consolidate it all to three or four paragraphs about the song. Any preference? HJMitchell    You rang?   22:40, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the first option would work the best, as you said it is a song in its own right. We can add a few sentences about it in the Neighbours article and then direct readers to the theme song article, like the awards section. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 22:51, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, have you got an idea in mind for a title? I've also asked WP's resident non-free image expert for an opinion on the images. The new article will still need some work, but it can wait until afer the GA review. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think either Neighbours theme song or The Neighbours theme would be okay. I've been working on a few of the new points raised, I even managed to find another ref for the video game and the name of the man who created it. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * How about Theme to Neighbours? That is handy- the more info we can add to it, the better. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:48, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Saw the new pictures were gone, so I came to see why and read the new section below. I've re-added the previous Neighbours logo picture, which I hope is okay, and I've removed the boxes where the other pictures used to be. Yep, I think Theme to Neighbours is fine. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 00:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

(undent)Hi HJ! With regards to the history section, I was going to say that I did add some info to that the other day. I added that the series was created by Reg Watson, started in Australia in 1985 on Seven Network and was bought by the BBC and started screening in the UK in 1986. This was all in addition to the other info that's already there. This was removed by another editor though! Is this the type of info that you're looking for? If it is I'll re-insert it though I may not be overly active on the Neighbours page for the next couple of days as I'm not feeling too well --5 albert square (talk) 23:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good evening. Hmm, that would fit the bill for the history section. It needs some work though- it needs to cover most of the significant milestones in the series' history etc like we did in The Bill. That's a shame. Hope you're feeling better soon. I'll be around and about but I'm in other places atm (mainly in and around WP:ITN/C) but drop me a line if you need me. HJMitchell    You rang?   00:14, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

This might sound like a stupid question, but what kind of information should be included in the history section of the Neighbours article? I've had a look at Eastenders and the history section there is split into a seperate article. I don't think Neighbours' history warrants a seperate article though, so I was just wondering what should be in the section? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 17:16, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Quick question. In the info box the list of Executive producers is quite long, all the people listed have been exec producers of the show, but only one (Susan Bower) is the current exec producer. Should I remove the others? Looking at the info boxes for other soaps they only list the current exec producer. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 19:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll deal with those one at a time!! Right, your question sounds stupid when you say it out loud but it's actually a very good question. I'd suggest you need a general outline of the show- who started it, when, did it start as a year-round soap, notable events, controversies etc. An overview of how the series has changed over the last 24(?) years.
 * As for the infobox, frankly, it doesn't matter that much but make sure all the facts in the infobox are also mentioned in the body of the article so if you want to take out previous directors, go for it. It might be worth mentioning some or all of them in the article but I would advise strongly against just a list of X was director from Y to Z if you know what I mean. Hope that's helpful.
 * Also, on the images, as you can see from the thread below this one, all the images (except the photo of the street) were deleted (F9), but Fastily was kind enough to restore the one in the infobox on the condition it was appropriately tagged and given a rationale (which I've done). HJMitchell    You rang?   19:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you, that is helpful. I might see if the notable exec producers can be put into the article somewhere. I've taken out the ratings info from the History section and placed it in a new section, Popularity and viewership. I've also moved the UK broadcasts to the international broadcasts. I'll get working on history section again once I've made sure this user - 86.155.131.20 hasn't added anymore unsourced information to soap opera pages. They've been very busy this evening and I've had to warn them 4 times. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 19:50, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Glad to be of service! Have fun with that! I'm being accused of edit warring by someone with an aversion to edit summaries! If you find another vandal edit after the 4 warnings, take it to AIV. I've not seen them on my watchlist but if they crop up I'll give the rollback button some exercise! Best, HJMitchell    You rang?   19:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought 86.155.131.20 had stopped making edits since they hadn't edited any articles for just over an hour, but they're back. Luckily another editor reverted their edits. I might have to take it to AIV as per your suggestion. Hope you get your own problem sorted soon. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 21:16, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If they've had their 4 warnings, take it to AIV- the worst that can happen is an admin determines they haven't been sufficiently warned or something, but even then, it gets them noticed and admins and rollbackers might well keep an eye on them. I'll do it if you want- it takes me about 20 seconds with Twinkle! HJMitchell    You rang?   21:31, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I reported them and they've been blocked for 31 hours. Thank you for the offer though! When you have a spare minute will you have a look at the Neighbours page and check everything looks okay now that I've changed a few things? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 21:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Afternoon, I've just been reading the Picture tutorial and the Images page, but I can't see the answer to my question, so I thought I'd ask/bother you. I was wondering if we can add an image to the Neighbours article from another (related) Wiki article? I've found a picture in Storylines of Neighbours that I think would look good on the Neighbours page in the characters section. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You don't have to worry about bothering me- my talk page is always open. Check the image- if it's free (released under creative commons) or public domain (no, I don't know what the difference is, but I'm told there is one) then I'd say go for it as long as it's appropriate, obviously. However, if it's non free (fair use), I'd say be very careful- the last lot were deleted and it's only by asking Fastily nicely that I got the main one restored so you can use it. If you're not sure, give me a link and I'll take a gander. HJMitchell    You rang?   15:28, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, the image is File:MadgeHarold88.JPG. I thought it could be used to illustrate the characters section, both of the characters are listed in the notable cast members list. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 15:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the image is non-free, but at least it's tagged as such. I honestly think you'll struggle there. It probably fails non-free content criteria 1, 3 and 8 so my advice would be strongly against its use and, indeed, it probably needs to be marked for deletion because I doubt it will meet any of those any time soon because WP insists on having free images and only the bare minimum fair use (whatever you think of the policy). You can get a second opinion from Fastily (he's the expert on NFCC) if you want because it's not my area of expertise.
 * Btw, I'm probably lighting your watchlist up atm since I've just created the article for the theme tune (I went with Theme to Neighbours) but feel free to move it if you can think of a better title!) and I'm just having a quick tidy up of all the supporting articles and templates. HJMitchell    You rang?   16:06, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking a look at it. Theme to Neighbours is fine with me. I'm trying to work out what to do with the 'Titles' section, I saw you had cut it down, I'm having trouble finding refs for any of the info that isn't from Perfectblend.net. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 17:58, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. I'm afraid I've actually put a tag on it disputing the fair use rationale so it'll likely be deleted in a week (seems to be the file space equivalent of a prod). I just removed the section headings- which were unnecessary. That had the happy side effect of drastically shortening the contents table which is now a respectable size. The theme tune article will need some work but it's not so shabby atm that it can't wait til after we've bashed is 'parent' article into shape, but it's starting to look like a GA. HJMitchell    You rang?   19:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's starting to look like a GA - everybody's hard work is paying off. :D I'm currently typing up the info and finding refs for the History section. I'm trying to find an interview or Q and A with the creator of Neighbours (Reg Watson) that might give me some more info, but the only one I can find is on Perfectblend.net and I don't think I can use a fansite as a ref in the article. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 20:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

<-- It is indeed- there's work to be done yet, but we're certainly getting there. As fro perfectblend, it's a tricky one. Te irony is if the info there was recirculated in a reputable newspaper, for example, it would be perfectly useable info! If the information is relatively uncontroversial and you cannot find it anywhere else, you might be able to get away with it but keep it to the absolute minimum. Also, if you have the patience, an advanced google search and a google news archive search might throw up some good material. For example, try a google search for "neighbours" or "Neighbours tv" within a few newspaper websites (guardian.co.uk; telegraph.co.uk; smh.com.au, etc) as well as bbc.co.uk, news.bbc.co.uk etc etc. HJMitchell    You rang?   20:43, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, still recovering from the cold but have at least managed to get on here tonight even if I'm probably not going to do anything to the Neighbours article tonight. Anyway was on the Neighbours talk page tonight catching up with what's been happening.  I notice one sentence that you've put that nobody seems to have dealt with and I don't actually understand what it means!  You've put (about the lead section I think) "It should summarise the contents of the article (as per everyone's favourite part of the MoS! Or not!)".  Can I ask what an MoS is? --5 albert square (talk) 20:53, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good evening. The MoS is Wikipedia's Manual of Style and the single least interesting group of pages in the project space. Thinks like WP:LEAD (to which my sarcastic comment was directed) are part of the MoS- it's a guideline on how to present and lay out articles (good to know if you're a copyeditor) and some parts of it, including WP:LEAD, have to be complied with for GA status and most (if not all) have to be followed for FA status. I think the lead is looking pretty good atm, but there a few touches it needs. I'll be off-wiki for an hour or two in a minute, but I'll be back on later. HJMitchell    You rang?   21:10, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for suggesting I should search google news archive! I found quite a bit that I can use to help me out. I've just added some info about Neighbours being branded 'too white', that's the most controversial story I can find about the soap, other then the recent teenage pregnancy. It's time slot restricts the type of storylines it can broadcast, so that's why it's more cheerful then Eastenders. lol. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 00:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've uploaded some more information to the history section, I haven't quite finished it, but I think it looks better then it did. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You're quite welcome- glad something I suggested was useful. That's interesting- especially since it lead to the introduction of a new character. It definitely looks better than it did, it's really taking shape. Make sure you've extracted every morsel of useful information from your sources and since the gnews archive search paid off, you may want to consider my suggestion of searching within news sites (gnews can be haphazard and it doesn't index every news page on the internet with those words in it). You never know what you might find- the stuff in The Bill about Galloway suing them was just something I dug up by chance searching news sources! HJMitchell    You rang?   02:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, OK from my sickbed today I've slightly re-worded the lead into Neighbours after looking at Wikipedia MoS. However some of MoS seemed to be more to do with copyediting, as you're more experienced at copy editing could you please take a quick look at it?  --5 albert square (talk) 13:32, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The MoS is worth a read, but as long as you follow the basics, you don;t need to be unduly concerned about it. It comes into play when there's a dispute about how something should be formatted or at FAC, but, to quote the Good Article Criteria, ".... Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style is not required for good articles." I've read most of the important parts of the MoS and I can tell you there are no major issues with it on Neighbours. I took a look at the article today (I fixed a small formatting error in the cite template) and your biggest problem by a long way is that titles section. I think it's being given undue weight and it's completely unreferenced (hence the tag I put on it). HJMitchell    You rang?   18:13, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * In regards to the titles section, I don't think they're that notable to have that much information included. Do you think it would be okay to cut the information down (a lot) and try and find some refs for it? I've also just edited the lead a little, as I realised that the fact Neighbours was cancelled is/was mentioned 4 times in the article. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 22:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Re:Sorry to bother you...
Hi HJ Mitchell. No, it's fine, I don't mind reviewing images. Mkay, well, to start off, File:Neighbourstitles.jpg is a non-free image, but it is listed as a free image. It actually qualifies for speedy deletion under criterion F9. As for File:80's titles.JPG, File:90's titles.JPG, File:00's titles.JPG, these are, well, put it bluntly, a mess. These files were tagged as being licensed under cc license, which already immediately qualifies them for a F9 deletion. Even if the files were tagged as non-free content, they would still be eligible for deletion on the grounds that they blatantly fail non-free content criteria 3a and 8. On top of that, those files were user-created derivatives of non-free works, files which users are generally discouraged from uploading to Wikipedia. Apart from those issues, the only other file, File:Neighbours Pinoak Court.jpg checks out. That being said, feel free to carry on with the review. Best,  F ASTILY  ( T ALK ) 00:09, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your time, Fastily, it's much appreciated. I'm not surprised by any of that, it must be said, but I wanted a second opinion and, well, you're the expert! However, I have just a couple more questions! Firstly, is there any way that the use of the various titles in the "through the years" theme could be acceptable or will it always fail the "minimal use" requirement? The second pertains to File:Neighbourstitles.jpg. Obviously I can't see it because it's been deleted but was it just a simple mis-tagging? If so would you be open to restoring it so it can be tagged more appropriately (Non-free television screenshot??) because, as a screenshot, I believe I'm right in saying it is acceptable to allow for critical commentary and identification. Thanks again for your help, HJMitchell    You rang?   00:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem! Alright, well usually, titles images like that are unnecessary in the first place. Unless there is a significant amount of critical commentary on the images themselves in the article body, then there really is no need to retain/use such images (per WP:NFC).  But if the article covers those images (in a detailed manner), then I'd recommend perhaps uploading just a single title image (per WP:NFCC), unless there is some real contextual significance of all the images collectively.  As for File:Neighbourstitles.jpg, It's usually common practice to upload a logo instead of a TV screenshot.  But I'll restore File:Neighbourstitles.jpg anyways so you can have an opportunity to look at it or fix it as necessary.  If you don't need the file or have a replacement, let me know and I'll delete the file again.  Hope that helps to answer your questions.  Regards,  F ASTILY  ( T ALK ) 00:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, cheers! That saves me some hassle. I'm sure the images were uploaded in the utmost good faith but I'm not surprised they had to go. As for File:Neighbourstitles.jpg, I've put the relevant tag on it and added a fair use rationale rather than wait for one of the other editors to fix it. I wonder if you'd mind taking a look when you have time just to check everything's in order. Thanks a lot for restoring it. HJMitchell    You rang?   16:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, no problem! Just happy to have been able to help. I took a final look at the article and can see no further issues with any of the images.  Everything looks great!  Cheers,  F ASTILY  ( T ALK ) 05:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks- one less thing to worry about. HJMitchell    You rang?   15:06, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

220
This message will self destruct after 5 seconds. 3 - 2 - 1 boom Fizzer! --220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC) This meassage will hang around to keep the other one company. tick, tick, tick, What's that, ticking? RUN --220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Good Result ↓

Merry Christmas --220.101.28.25 (talk) 00:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Noticed you were busy. Silly me I'm 24 hours early! And I thought I was being clever Bit too warm to think clearly! Need a cup of tea. Talk here is now about floods in NSW from cyclone. I voted for the Gävle goat! Cheers --220.101.28.25 (talk) 00:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:WIKED
I just closed that AN3 report as no violation with no action apparently needed at this time. As a side note, I do not know if you use any scripts in your editing besides rollback, but I find that WikEd has a very useful diff comparison display. It shows moved text as moved text instead of a deletion and an insertion, and deals with newlines much better than the default interface. Good luck, - 2/0 (cont.) 03:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for closing the report and for the suggestion, I'll take a look at that. Much obliged, HJMitchell    You rang?   12:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Cyclone Laurence ITN
The article has been updated about the damages Cyclone Laurence caused and with an associated press source. Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a  message on my talk page. 20:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Very good. I've moved the item up the page so it gets a bit more input and added my support since there's no reason I can see not to put it on ITN.  HJMitchell    You rang?   23:08, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The Climb
Hi. I've reverted your reversion of my edit in The Climb (song) article. Your rationale that the article is written in American English is right, but is irrelevant where series/season is concerned; American television has seasonal programming (i.e. "the Fall season", "midseason", "the off season", etc) whereas British television just runs for a shorter series of episodes. Changing "series" to "season" just because the article is written in American English would be like, say, writing "Tony Blair, British Labor Party Prime Minister" in the George W. Bush article for the same reason. 86.179.67.134 (talk) 21:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know. HJMitchell    You rang?   22:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Neighbours IV
Hi HJ

Thought I'd start a new section as the old one was verrrrry long lol!

I'm looking for clarification on something. On the Neighbours review you say that everything mentioned in the lead should be mentioned in the main section and that the awards particularly sprung to mind. The awards are mentioned in the main article in their own section so am just wondering what you're meaning? I intend to crack on with this once Xmas is over and once I'm feeling better! --5 albert square (talk) 22:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice. You even followed the roman numerals! I like roman numerals! Haha! Anyway, it might be my fault, but the examples of awards used in the lead differ from those in the "awards" section. Ideally, just add the awards mentioned in the lead to the relevant section and cut and paste the refs while you're at it! To quote the meerkat, "simples"! Hope that helps! No rush- nobody expects you to be working on it over Christmas! HJMitchell    You rang?   23:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * That's now done! --5 albert square (talk) 23:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's totally unrelated to Neighbours, but I thought I'd put this here. Merry Christmas!! Have a great day. :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 00:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Just thought I'd pop on to see what was happening. Congratulations on your Admin nomination! I definitely support you as I think you'd make a great admin. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 22:43, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Erm, yeah, my talk page kind of doubled in size in a few hours! Ah well, it's all very flattering. Must be the Christmas spirit in the wiki-air! Is there any help you need on Neighbours? Obviously I'll be in and out as I can. Other than that, feel free to comment in the RfA and drop by any time (might be an idea to start a "Neighbours V" thread at the bottom though!). All the best, HJMitchell    You rang?   22:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think I need any help with Neighbours at the moment. I still need to add a little more info to the history section. The titles section is the only problem, Abgreen left a comment about the section on the talk page, which (hopefully) I answered. They also asked if a sound clip of the theme song could be added to the main article, but I told them that any sound clip should be added to the theme song article. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:05, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright then. I'm glad to see Abgreen is still around despite the problems with those images which were, unfortunately, deleted. The theme tune article is definitely the best place for that. I've seen it done a few times in GAs I've reviewed, though I've no idea how to do it! Obviously, you need to be careful with the copyright stuff, but take a look at (or point Abgreen in the direction of) The Climb (song), which uses an audio clip. That's a GA (I should know, I passed it!) so it's probably a good idea to follow that example. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:15, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Quick Q, can I add my support for your admin nomination or is it only admins that can do it? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:18, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Admins serve at the pleasure of the community, so it's only right that that community should have a say in who serves them. Any editor (with an account) can !vote in an RfA and, actually, the majority who do aren't admins! That's a long winded way of saying go ahead! HJMitchell    You rang?   23:24, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I've just added my support. Good luck! :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:32, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that means a lot. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:37, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, am back from my Wikibreak! (I am not always on them by the way, just very busy this time of year!).  What else needs to be done to Neighbours?

Oh and congrats on your nomination for admin. It's something I'd love to do for Wikipedia one day but personally I'd rather get more experience under my belt first of all. I've only been seriously editing Wikipedia since just before I nominated The Bill as a good article. This week I've learned a heck of a lot more about sockpuppetry thanks to an active sockpuppet on the Lorna Fitzgerald page. I'm about to see though if I can add my comments to your nomination for adminship --5 albert square (talk) 17:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Cheers. I saw your comment- thanks! I'd be surprised if it passes the way it's going but it would be nice to make myself more useful around ITN and places. It'l be a close one and I can't say I envy the 'crat who has to close it! HJMitchell    You rang?   21:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Awwww it really would be a shame if it didn't. Some people can be so picky though, especially with CSD nominations as sometimes articles nominated can come under a couple of the sections.


 * Vandals are annoying me tonight. I reverted some vandalism on Ross Kemp's page before and posted a polite welcome template on the offending IP's talk page.  Next thing the IP vandalised my user page by calling me a "Neighbours, EastEnders and Deal or No Deal turd".  Uh, whatever!  That's the thanks I guess that I get for trying to be helpful and friendly lol.


 * I'll have a proper look at the Neighbours article again tomorrow. What I'm thinking of doing though at some stage is setting up a separate page for one of the locations - the General Store.  Discussed it with June, she thinks it's a good idea.  I'm only doing it for that one location though, thought it would be a nice idea as it's been there since the very start (albeit under many guises!) and it has seen it's fair amount of action --5 albert square (talk) 22:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, I've been having a look at Neighbours tonight. As usual I couldn't stay away and wrote an intro for the storylines section.  I think this was the only thing outstanding from the to do list.  Can you take another look at Neighbours when you get a second please?  --5 albert square (talk) 23:07, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good idea as long as it ticks the usual boxes. Like I say, I'd be surprised, extatic but surprised if it passed though it might just scrape through if people actually look at my work around the main page which is where I'd use the tools) and not CSD. But even there, how many attack pages have I incorrectly tagged? I'd wager a guess at zero! It's daft that I have to go through all of that just to be able to make a few edits a day to a template!I'll take a look at Neighbours in a mo. Bear with me... HJMitchell    You rang?   00:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Any thoughts on the Neighbours page? Hopefully it's not requiring as much work as The Bill!  --5 albert square (talk) 02:02, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No further comments on it? --5 albert square (talk) 13:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I took a look last night (might have been early this morning) and made a few edits. We're definitely getting there. I'll have a more detailed look later today and make some comments on the review page if need be. Oh, might be an idea to start a new thread here- this talk page seems to be getting a lot of traffic at the minute and I didn't realise you'd dropped by until I checked the history! HJMitchell    You rang?   13:32, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings
 Happy Yuletides! 

Seasons Greeting.-- yousaf465'  03:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Hello, nice to see your message. Remind me when we have worked together before--I hae a sense we disagreed about something--your name seems really, really familar. Nice job on the new page patrol! Ikip 17:36, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it was the bilateral relations, though it was a while ago and my memory's a little fuzzy! Cheers, keep up the good work. All the best, HJMitchell    You rang?   17:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh of course, who can forget that mess! Thank you so much for all your help in that. I think we really did good in that case, despite the strong oposition. Now all the less notable articles are merged... That project is probably one of the projects I am most proud of--you should be too! Ikip 17:48, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers, it did turn out well, all things considered, and I think a lot of people learnt a lot of things about far away places (I never knew Pakistan and Argentina had relations!) which is the purpose of Wikipedia! HJMitchell    You rang?   17:55, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow! I'm flattered. Thankyou. What an unexpected act of kindness. Feel free to drop by any time you need anything and a very merry Christmas to you. HJMitchell    You rang?   20:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

A star for your tree
Or, you know, a medal to hang on it =]
 * Well thankyou! I do my best to keep things ticking over, since you guys are doing such a good job at gearing it towards an eventual FA. I'm flattered by the award. I'll keep dropping in now and then to see how it's going, but let me know if I can do anything useful! Merry Christmas to you. HJMitchell    You rang?   09:03, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

RFA
Just wondering, have you thought about running for RFA? --Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 11:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've considered it. May I ask what prompted you to ask? Merry Christmas, btw! HJMitchell    You rang?   11:10, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I've been looking around for someone who I thought should get the bit. I've seen you around quite a few times, and I haven't seen any reason not to nominate you for adminship. I'll probably email you a few questions to make sure you're ready if you'd like me to nominate you. --Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 11:14, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Go for it! Assuming you decide I'm ready, it would be January before I'd feel able to run since I have 2 quite complicated GA reviews on at the minute. You can email me from WP if you want (it's linked in the editnotice) and feel free to check out my contribs or anything else that's useful. Thankyou for stopping by. Another pleasant Christmas surprise! HJMitchell    You rang?   11:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Quite understood, I sent you the email. Cheers, Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 11:33, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I read the email, I think you understand quite well what you need to do, I'm also happy you'll be working near the Main Page, as we definitely need more admins there. I'll nominate you whenever you want, I'll start making the RFA now, so you can accept it when you're ready. --Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 13:16, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks, that was quick! I'll have a discussion with the editors working on the 2 GA reviews and get back to you when I'm in a position to give the RfA my attention. Obviously I don't want to be focusing on that when my advice might be needed elsewhere but I expect I should be OK in a week or so. Thanks very much for your time. HJMitchell    You rang?   13:29, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I created the nomination. Once again don't worry about accepting it until you are ready. --Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 14:31, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

 Coffee would like to nominate you to become an administrator. Please visit Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then [ contact Coffee] to accept or decline the nomination. A page for your nomination at Requests for adminship/HJ Mitchell. If you accept the nomination, you must state and sign your acceptance. You may also choose to make a statement and/or answer the optional questions to supplement the information your nominator has given. Once you are satisfied with the page, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.
 * Do please let me know when this goes live - I just spent some time with your most recent contributions a few threads up, and it certainly looks like you would be a good addition to the corps. - 2/0 (cont.) 17:44, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well thankyou. That's unexpected and flattering. I'll be sure to let you know! HJMitchell    You rang?   17:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And I see you are completely up front about that particular matter - always a good idea, in my opinion. Please feel free to direct people my way if they want to know more about what I was thinking when I closed that. - 2/0 (cont.) 17:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * :) - 2/0 (cont.) 17:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well from my knowledge of RfA, I'd say it's pretty much bound to come up and I'd rather get it out there that it was a misunderstanding that got blown a bit out of proportion. HJMitchell    You rang?   18:11, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

You're the type of editor who will make a great admin, and I'm glad to see you were nominated. Viriditas (talk) 06:52, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Enjoy the season!
  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

May this season bring you joy and cheer HJ Mitchell! --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:black 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 11:15, 25 December 2009 (UTC)



Thank you
Dear HJ Mitchell - thank you. I have now resubmitted the edit with an explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrace101 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw you blanked it again with an explanation. Thank you for explaining. However, if the material is indeed copyright there are a few other things you should do:

OR
 * If it was just added by someone, point out where to me and I'll restore it to the version before the copyright material was added for you
 * If the whole page is a copyright violation you can put at the top of the page
 * If (and only if) it has always been a copyvio, you can mark it for deletion under CSD G12 with . Best,  HJMitchell    You rang?   13:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 17:01, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

RE:A7
I'm using Twinkle... just discovered there's more buttons when I scroll down... oops. Thanks. :) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 19:43, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries. I use Twinkle myself- it's excellent for that kind of task (makes it so much quicker!) there's a whole array of buttons if you scroll down. As I say, if you can use the most specific template available, it makes it that bit easier but, FWIW, I agree it's an A7! All the best, HJMitchell    You rang?   19:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy Holidays from the U.S.!!!!


Happy holidays, merry Christmas, happy New Year's & Hanukkah & Quanza!!! May this holiday season makes all your dreams come true, best regards ipodnano05  * leave@message 20:01, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow, thank you! Merry Christmas to you as well! Nice to hear from you. HJMitchell    You rang?   20:09, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. -- ipodnano05  * leave@message 21:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Greetings
Well at least it's the right day this time! I smell roast chicken, turkey, ham, pork, baked potatoes, gravy, Christmas puddin', rum sauce and Kiplings Fruit Mince pies. And you're here 'working'? What is going on? (and you'll be 'glad' to know its been raining here since about Christmas midday!). And I have a new 'header' on my talkpage, rather clever I think! --220.101.28.25 (talk) 20:27, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * HA! Rain! Serves you right! Hmph! I'm not doing anything laborious! Just browsing around, patrolling the recent changes etc. I have to say, I'm quite overwhelmed by the number of kind editors who've dropped by to say merry Christmas! I've also been given 2 barnstars in as many days and nominated for adminship! Not bad for a day's work! Besides, it's a distraction from the large amounts of turkey, meatloaf, roast potatoes etc currently working it's way through! HJMitchell    You rang?   20:38, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've been skulking around and noticed what's been happening. (and I got a first P:CE entry on the Pope getting 'biffed'!) Time for me to get some horizontal sleep. Later! --220.101.28.25 (talk) 20:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw that, I didn't realise it was your handiwork, though- surpising since it's on my watchlist (I created today's subpage [and yesterday's for that matter! And I'll probably create the next one at 0000!])! I've seen you on ITN/C a few times as well! Horizontal sleep is overrated! Damn these time zones, eh? HJMitchell    You rang?   20:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Can't get around it, beside the WWW would be rather slow if we were ALL on it at the same time (theoretically). Noticed your daylight hours there are REAL short, I think ≈7½ hours?. Here it's now more like (guessing) 14? Light from ≈6am to ≈8pm. But have to go. See ya! --220.101.28.25 (talk) 21:15, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

It's me, Julia
Hi HJMitchell,

This is me, Julia Howard. My username is not Dottyslurp anymore, it's Lyrebird Lover. Just wanted to let you know!

---Julia Howard (talk) 21:02, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I can't private talk with you. Wikipedia won't let me.

RfA
I think you really handle your CSD nominations poorly, but not as poorly as your friend is handling your RfA nomination. I won't hold either against you in the long run as I think you have other things going for you in the pluses department. Please do re-examine your CSD nominations and interactions with newbies writing new articles whether you succeed or not in this bid for adminship. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 01:46, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you don't beat around the bush. As for the CSD nominations, they are a minority (if a sizeable one) and not my primary area of contribution to the project. As for my interaction with newbies, I was on here on Christmas Day patrolling the recent changes and, in doing so, welcomed several new editors and informed a few more of policies on removing info from articles or adding controversial material (particularly to BLPs) and one of them even came to thank me for putting him on the right track. I'm also involved in a discussion with a new editor who, after introducing a variety of pages and causing herself a little trouble to the point of getting a final warning, is now (in part due to my efforts) on her way to being a fine editor. That aside, I actually have more interest in the Main Page (particularly ITN) than in CSD and, if you take a look at my last 100 edits, almost all are to WP:ITN/C (or related pages), WP:ERRORS and WP:ANI. While I doubt you'll change your mind, and you have a valid point, I'm not a mindless CSD tagging robot and a quick look at my talk page and archives shows I'm willing to spend a lot of my own time helping less experienced editors- for example, look at some of my GA reviews. Kind regards, HJMitchell    You rang?   02:05, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did look at your record rather thoroughly, and because of what you state immediately above, I had to ask myself seriously if I should oppose you or not because you seem to have a lot going for you. I think, though, that you are acting against the spirit of wikipedia with some of your CSD nominations. This is enough for a strong oppose vote. I consider it a serious issue that you ignored the content of particular articles when nominating for CSD because of the impression this gives to newcomers who appear to be potential serious and valuable contributors to the project. I think you ignored the greater good with your nominations and, right now, this type of action by established editors is hurting wikipedia. That's my opinion. Apparently your nominator is going to tear me to pieces for voicing it. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 02:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, as far as I'm concerned, you're quite entitled to your opinion and you're entitled to !vote oppose based on that. I don't disagree with many of your points. However, I wonder if you'd consider asking an uninvolved admin to have a look through and comment on my record with G10 (attack pages, G11 (spam) and G12 (copyvios). Personally, I'd like to see a reform of A7 and possibly A3 and G1 because many experienced editors struggle with these, so what hope for a humble rollbacker who spends most of his time in mainspace or project space? But that's a discussion for another venue. If I were !voting on a similar RfA, I don't think I would go with a "strong oppose", rather a "weak oppose" or even "neutral leaning towards oppose" based on expressed intent to use the tools elsewhere than CSD and the record (barnstars, GAs, ITN, DYK, clean block log, lengthy civil talk page and archives) but, again that's your opinion and nobody, least of all me, should seek to prevent you from expressing it. I think it was Barack Obama who said "I will listen to you. Especially when we disagree". HJMitchell    You rang?   02:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought about it, and it is one instance in which a strong oppose was earned, imo. I don't think anyone would have paid much attention to it, if Coffee hadn't brought so much to it. But I'm comfortable with a strong oppose in this case for the reasons stated. Possibly I should have been clearer in the beginning, but, again, I didn't think anyone would pay much attention to the vote, and because of your generally good record in most areas, I didn't think I would elaborate as strongly as Coffee eventually forced me to. I hope you do consider what I'm saying when you interact with new editors who have the potential to be good contributors to wikipedia. The vast majority of articles at CSD are not going anywhere. But, when they are, they need help, not deletion. IMO. Take care, --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 02:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well thank you for stopping by and for being civil- I can't ask much more. I apologise for the rough ride you had from Coffee who, sometimes, might benefit from a little less caffeine but I hope we bump into each other in happier circumstances in the future. As I say, I have, I am and I will continue to review the way that I am with speedy deletions, especially if my RfA passes. However, often there is little that can be done except explain the policies and guidelines (which I do, and I offer my assistance if they need more help) but if someone wrote an article, for example, about me, I'd be flattered but I'd still mark it with db-person because I'm not the slightest bit notable (or "significant" if you want to get into semantics) and it's unlikely I will be in the foreseeable future. I agree though, that I should take more time to examine possible claims of notability/significance before tagging an article and will do so in future, even if no other good comes of the RfA. All the best, HJMitchell    You rang?   02:54, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Struth! It's gone a little cockeyed it seems! Did you notice this, "...with only 4-5 months of editing I cannot see how the editor can be up to speed on enough of the minutiae of wikipedia to be an admin". What the $&#*?. If you have the time this may cheer you up HERE Turkey demolition goes wrong. Chin up Guv! --220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Meh, when you've participated in a few RfAs, you come to expect it! They're full of drama. Horrible, horrible things. I know why people do it though- because it's bloody hard to get rid of admins who abuse the tools. That said, the number of them actively "administrating" has dropped massively over the last few months and there are less than half a dozen who work in places like ITN on anything like a regular basis. You're free to make a comment if you like- you can't !vote properly because you don't have an account (despite the fact you could set up an account and make you first edit to an RfA and it's all fine!). Anyway, thanks for cheering me up! HJMitchell    You rang?   11:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) If I may share some advice - HJMitchell, I spoke to coffee over IRC about the responses, and I think that you should retain your current status. I know how it feels to start losing your hold on an RfA (I've failed 2) and I think you should wait 3-6 months and run again. You shouldn't be discouraged, as I said in my support !vote; you should probably have waited 2-3 more months. You're doing a wonderful job here, it's not that you're not good enough, but there are just enough problems for the people in the oppose section to not support. Personally, I think you have excellent qualities which should make them overlook faulty taggings, but I guess some of them just aren't convinced.

Please don't think that you're not doing things right - in fact, most people would be envious of your status as of now. Just pay attention to your CSD work and perhaps not be so "trigger-happy" in the future. You will notice the difference! Best,  ceran  thor 13:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for stopping by. That was a very considerate thing to say. I'm just on here to do what I can to help the project and it seems that I would be more use if I had a few extra tools but if the community disagrees, there's nothing I can do about it. I know the RfA's going downhill but I'm still holding out some hope, though I'm not overly surprised considering I've only really got 5 months active editing and under 6000 edits(I've seen RfAs bomb out with much more experienced editors), I was actually surprised when Coffee offered to nominate me but I wouldn't have accepted if I didn't think I was up to it. Unfortunately RfAs are getting more and more away from whether an editor can be trusted not to cock things up but, as I've said before, it is bloody hard to get rid of an admin who does which may explain the reluctance of people to support many candidates. I hope this changes soon, for the good of the project because it'll only take another few hundred admins to go inactive over the next year and we'll be losing them faster than we can replace them. I must admit that I was considering a self nom a few months down the line (probably March or April when I had 12 months under my belt) and hey, if this one goes to pot, I might try it.
 * The only thing that surprises or disappoints me about the RfA is the lack of focus (a few thoughtful supporters excepted) on what I would do with the tools (keep the main page running) and excessive focus on mistakes with CSD tagging. I wish somebody would analyse my contributions to ITN/C, WP:ERRORS and ANI rather than my limited work in CSD, but such is life and such is the way of RfA. As I say, I hope we get some more admins soon or the project is in danger of relying too heavily on a very small group of editors (never a good idea). It would be nicer still if somebody bothered to look at all the nice friendly welcoming messages (or the nice friendly "don't add defamatory info to BLP" messages I left on user talk pages on Christmas Day since I'm being attacked for apparently biting newbies!
 * Anyway, thanks for dropping in, it's always nice to be appreciated. HJMitchell    You rang?   14:05, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I do agree that your other qualities seem to have been overlooked - and the current RfA zone isn't a very friendly climate - but I think you'll be fine in a couple months. Maybe I can even nominate you next time around, I'm absolutely willing. :)  ceran  thor 14:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see how this one pans out first before I start thinking about another one. It's not impossible that, in 2 or 3 months, another few admins will be working in ITN and I'll have no real use for the tools. Of course, it's not impossible that ITN is left with fewer admins than ever by that time. Thanks for the offer though, I'll definitely consider it if things turn out that way! HJMitchell    You rang?   14:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would just like to say that I think the idea of admins running reconfirmation RfA's every year is interesting but mathematically unfeasible. With 1700 current admins, we would be having 33 reconfirmation RfA's every week.  -- <B>Soap</B> Talk/Contributions 01:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I agree that it would be unfeasible, but I stand by my point that admins should not have guaranteed tenure, though obviously there is some way to go before we can implement any of the procedures being talked about, but, whether my RfA passes or not, it's something I'd be interested in exploring further and, should it pass, I'd list myself as open to recall. Thanks for stopping by, anyway- it's an interesting issue. HJMitchell    You rang?   01:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Allo' Allo'. Good moaning!. You may like this link HERE --220.101.28.25 (talk) 02:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Morning? Well, I suppose it is. Kind of. I'm tired and I have an eye infection. Joy of joys. What you trying to say, anyway? Eh??? HJMitchell    You rang?   02:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably that Adminship may be a two edged sword. But you are getting a lot of support! ≈70% by my 'vote' count. Bet you're tired. RfA on and  doing all your normal wiki-work. Take care, your eyes need a rest! Have to go Off-line soon, so see you later mate!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 02:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I just checked, it looks like 69% atm and I think you generally need at least 70 for an RfA to pass. I'm surprised though- there's a lot of editors for whom I have a lot of respect in that support column, the opposers, for the most part, are civilly raising valid concerns and the whole thing hasn't turned into a dramafest. As long as that continues, passing or failing seems a background concern. It was early but not premature IMHO and I can always run again in a few months if need be. HJMitchell    You rang?   12:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, "It's Alive". Have a good rest?. How are the peepers?. I've been off bothering people on the science and computer ref desks.;-) And I put an entry in the "in the news/Candidates". Lots of upheaval in Iran (just on the news) Some "well connected" guy got killed in a protest. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 12:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. It was pleasant, though the eye seems to be getting worse rather than better. I shall go and support that in a minute- I've not been on ITN/C since I archived it just after midnight. I've been asked to open an RfC on global warming. This is going to be fun! Dramafest! Not what I need right now but they seem to have a valid point. Do you remember when people were complaining about archiving the talk page too soon at Fort Hood Shooting? I think it was in between all the idiots trying to convince us he's Osama Bin Laden! HJMitchell    You rang?   13:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

'Chapter' break
I recently used eyedrops called "Bleph-10" which is 'over-the-counter' here, or if that doesn't work see your doctor and something called "Chlorsig" may be the trick. Of course "I Am Not Giving You Medical Advice!"(just suggesting) And don't rub it! Noticed the bit about RfC, and for the record, I look more like Osama than Hasan does (a LOT more!)--220.101.28.25 (talk) 13:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've got some penicillin free (allergic to it!) ointment stuff which is horrible but I have to take it for 5 days and hopefully it'll get rid of it! It looks like the people at Global Warming have a similar problem to the problem people thought we had at Ft Hood but it seems to have escalated into something comparable to world war 3! HJMitchell    You rang?   13:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thread move
Even IP wanted that discussion moved to the talk page, I'm not quite certain why you want it back as it distracts from you. --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 20:40, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, then feel free to move it back. My point is that you're being overly aggressive, especially with IP69 who, for the most part, has provided a civil, valid rationale for his oppose and your edit summary in response to DC was quite hostile. That said, I do appreciate all you're doing for me- just try to keep it civil. Thanks, HJMitchell    You rang?   20:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * True, two wrongs don't make a right. I tend to get a little to involved in things where I feel strongly that a person should have/shouldn't have the bit. --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 21:12, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I know. I've participated in my fair share of RfAs and what I saw there (I'll take WikiGreekBaseball as an exception, because that whole thing was just stupid) is that you have high standards and strong opinions, which is why I was surprised you offered to nominate me. I think the RfA may be a little early (though not premature) and some of the opposers raise very valid concerns. Anyway, I appreciate your help, but if you could try to keep cool, I'd appreciate it even more! My experience is, that although RfA is horrible, the community generally makes the right decisions. Eventually. If they feel that a few mistagged CSDs means I shouldn't get the tools, it's their decision to make. Of course, you or anyone else can challenge opposers (I try not to, because it looks bad in my experience) but try to have a discussion rather than an argument. Sorry for the rambling! HJMitchell    You rang?   21:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

ITN/C Archiving
Thanks for archiving WP:ITN/C. I had the self-inflicted duty of archiving it nonstop for a few months. Recently User:Arsonal took up the task. He is currently on holiday and I am filling for him. On a second note, I see you are fairly new to ITN, am I right? I hope it is a place where you decide to stay, as it is under resourced. Good look with your RfA, Cargoking   talk  10:31, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I seem to be the only one active on ITN at stupid times of the morning to create the new days on the portal and ITN/C and I noticed from the history you've done a lot of the archiving so I thought I'd give you hand. I've been around there for probably just under 2 months now and I decided to go for the RfA because it frustrates me not being able to do anything when you see an item that needs to go on but the timer turns yellow. Then Red. Then it's 28 hours since it was updated and there's no sign of an admin! We definitely need another admin there and I hope the community will allow me to help you guys out. Btw, I saw your oppose to the rage against the machine thing a week ago and was reminded of it when I archived it. That made me chuckle! Thanks for stopping by! HJMitchell    You rang?
 * Funny, I joined Wikipedia six days before you, we're both rollbackers and have around the same amount of contributions. Cargoking   talk  17:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That is funny. I hadn't noticed! Perhaps we're the next generation or something? I would be nice if they'd let us edit ITN since between the two of us and Candlewicke there are three editors who obviously know what they're doing- probably more so than some of the admins who make "drive by" updates when it's overdue! Ironic really! HJMitchell    You rang?   15:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think a new semi-admin might be useful. A person then wouldn't have the full admin powers, but would have some privileges, e.g would be able to edit protected pages or delete pages. Numerous people have asked Candlewicke if he wants to go up for adminship. He has always said he was too busy. He said he'd have time in December now that I think of it. I think I will drop him a note now. Cargoking   talk  17:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea. We definitely need someone who knows what they're doing at ITN and Candlewicke fits the bill. HJMitchell    You rang?   21:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * He said December is nearly over. He'll have time in the summer. Cargoking   talk  23:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Global warming RfC
I admit to being in a rather bad mood when I proposed an RfC for the Global warming page, I had just had my complete discussion deleted from the talk page, however, I think there is still a strong case for an RfC with what you called a 'nice, neutral, drama-free title' on the subject of the way the page is controlled. I wonder if you would be willing to propose such an RfC or suggest someone who might be willing to do so. I have had no response from 2/0 so far. Martin Hogbin (talk) 12:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay then, I suggest you email me (to avoid on-wiki drama) with your concerns which, I understand, concern overly aggressive management and archiving of the talk page? Include a few diffs if you could and I'll weigh it up and consider opening an RfC for you, though I'll discuss it with 2/0 first because his concerns were, from what I saw, quite valid. You can email me form WP- it's linked in the editnotice here or in a userbox on my userpage and I'll let you know (hopefully later today) what I think after consulting 2/0. Sound fair? All the best,  HJMitchell    You rang?   13:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not replying, MH - I did not see anything further I could say there that would advance towards a solution. My concern with the RfC title could, of course, have been solved by retitling it, but that would not solve the issue that the discussion was focused on editor behavior rather than improvements to the article. Based on the comments to the AN/I where I requested review of my early close and to the talkpage discussion it spawned, I think it might have been better to retitle, collapse the sniping, and attempt to focus the discussion based on the few remaining comments. I think I disagree with both Ikip and Ludwigs2 more often than I agree, but they in particular have made good comments.


 * HJM - I would be happy to see you (or anyone) open a neutrally worded mediation discussion with the aim of reducing the adversarial atmosphere, but the venue needs to be appropriate to the issues. Several editors there have expressed concerns with the MedCab process, so WikiProject Environment (perhaps after creating a dedicated taskforce) would seem a good place to discuss organization of the whole family of articles, and RfC/U or ArbCom would be good for discussing editor conduct. There have already been a number of RS/N, NPOV/N, and BLP/N discussions of related issues that could probably be exhumed for background. I have some hope, though, that the recent infusion of fresh blood might work out a solution without escalation.


 * That said, I would not close the discussion you propose - the strength of the collaborative editing model lies in seeking and acting on consensus rather than acceding to the rationations and whims of any single editor. - 2/0 (cont.) 20:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply. I've yet to decide what I'm going to do, I'll have to discuss it further with Martin Hogbin. there seems to be a need for discussion on the issue and I fear RFC/U might be a little to narrow in its scope and ArbCom something of an extreme measure. I'd rather try to facilitate one last attempt at civil discussion with the input of other editors before this escalates and ends up at ArbCom's door. I'll let you know what I decide, anyway. Thanks again, HJMitchell    You rang?   20:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I find it difficult to see how civil discussion can operate with the level of interference going on. I've explained my position on Martin's page and immediately had a sinking feeling - this level of open-ness often doesn't pay. MalcolmMcDonald (talk) 09:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Although I am a AGW sceptic I fully agree with Malcolm. Any scientific theory, even very well accepted ones like evolution, should be able to stand up to continuous scrutiny.  Whether a 'dissent' section is the best way forwards I am not sure, this is something that should be discussed.   If somebody could mediate with the regular editors to allow free discussion round the subject on the talk page and ask them to use more appropriate edit summaries ('Delete unencylopedic and poorly sourced material' rather than the uncivil and provocative 'Remove vandalism') so that others can follow the action more easily, I would be quite happy. Martin Hogbin (talk) 10:35, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to be confronted by aggressive editors who, amongst other outrageous Talk Page practices, re-factor the comments of others.
 * However, if the rules state that we have to put up with such people, we can still insist that this topic be treated like others and a portion of the article be put aside to document dissent. MalcolmMcDonald (talk) 22:35, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, Gentlemen, I have one simple question: what do you want me to do? If you think it would achieve something, we can try another RfC or another venue, in which I'd be happy to act as an informal mediator and facilitate discussion as a neutral third party. I need to lknow what your complaints are- one at a time- the content of the article or the management of the talk page? HJMitchell   You rang?   23:32, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I am a newcomer to the page and would be happy for you to try to broker some kind of understanding concerning the talk page, edit summaries and general behaviour by the regulars.  May be some of the older hands will see this as a lost cause.  Martin Hogbin (talk) 00:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

thank you!
<div style="padding: 10px; background: #000000; border: 1px solid #0000FF; font-family: Batik Regular, sans-serif; font-size: 95%;">

 smithers  - talk  -  sign!  16:15, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Neighbours V
At your request!

Lol! Any more comments on Neighbours?

Vandals are getting on my nerves tonight! Neighbours, EastEnders and The Bill all had subpages attacked numerous times, all my favourite soaps, how dare they!! Inventing character for the lot of them, though The Bill's I did find funny as the person was so insistent that the character was introduced, yet said the character was introduced when the programme wasn't even flipping airing. However I'm gonna keep an eye on the IP that did it, it really wouldn't surprise me if it was a sock of the guy who kept insisting that Dale Smith was not arrested and charged with murder, despite me providing a ref saying otherwise! --5 albert square (talk) 21:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay then, sorry I've not been able to get back to you earlier. Neighbours. You know what I'm going to say (or at least June does)! There is not a single ref in that entire Titles section. It's also too long and probably gives it undue eight, but that can be dealt with later. What I suggest you do is find all the refs you can for it (try searching google news archives, websites of Australian and British news sources- smh.com.au; guardian.co.uk spring to mind amongst others- search via google with "Neighbours tv site:en.wikipedia.org" replacing WP with the site you want to search). Once you've got your refs, it'll become clear what can't be referenced and that can be removed. There are a few other issues but they're not big and could probably be dealt with in a few hours further down the line. HJMitchell    You rang?   22:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, that's ok. You were in the middle of typing that, I was in the middle of referencing it lol!  It's PerfectBlend that's the reference but that's the only reference I can find apart from fansites and Youtube I'm afraid.  Care to take a look?  --5 albert square (talk) 23:53, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * For you, of course. I had a previous conversation with June about Perfectblend and I think I'd be willing to let it go as long as it's only being used for fairly uncontroversial facts. I'll get back to you in a mo! HJMitchell    You rang?   23:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Right then, I've taken a look and it certainly looks better than it was. Ideally, I'd like to see that information drastically shortened (by at least half) and the subheadings out. Is there no reference at all you can find for theses things that isn't Perfect Blend? HJMitchell    You rang?   00:02, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi HJ, I've looked on Google again, I've managed to find another reference for 2007 but I simply cannot find anything other than Perfect Blend for the other years. I've tried Google, I've tried smh.com.au, I've tried Google Books, I've tried British Newspapers, I've tried the Herald Sun, I've tried Google News, you name it I've tried it and there's nothing else.  Sorry --5 albert square (talk) 00:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright then, I'll let that one go. Try and trim the information- the titles are not that important in the scheme of things and only really need a paragraph or two. If it were trimmed, I'd be a lot happier with the sourcing issues. HJMitchell    You rang?   00:32, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi again, I've done what I think that you were meaning. Can you take a quick look?  --5 albert square (talk) 00:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Excellent, yes. That's exactly what I meant. Can you try and get it into continuous prose rather than subheadings for the decades though? Then at least it would be within one screen. If you could condense it any further without removing important information, by all means do so. It's looking good. I'll take another look in the morning (might be the day after, thinking about it, real world and all that...) and give you what I hope will be tips for the final touches before I can promote it! HJMitchell    You rang?   01:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure thing, will do that just now. Looking forward to getting the final comments!  --5 albert square (talk) 01:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

(undent) Hi HJ, sorry to hear about the RFA.

June's expanded the storyline section today and added some refs. I spent quite a lot of time on the Neighbours article last night and carried out quite a lot of the work that you suggested. Everything is now ticked off. Can you take a look please and see if it passes? --5 albert square (talk) 20:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, thank you for the thank you note regarding your RFA. :) As 5asq mentioned above, I have expanded the Storylines section. It still needs a little work I think, so I'm working on adding a little more info. I still have some worries about the titles section though, do you think it should be trimmed down further? - JuneGloom07 (talk) 22:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I've not checked all the points I raised last night but I will do soon. I have looked at the Titles section and the Storylines section (good work, there! Much better!). To be honest, minus the Titles section, I could probably get away with promoting it now. However, I can't do it with the Titles section as it is. It could still be trimmed but my main concern is the refs- I can deal with dodgy sources for uncontroversial facts but the section (for something relatively minor) takes up a huge chunk of space and there are whole paragraphs that aren't referenced. See what you can do with it, I'll be around til the early hours so drop by if you need help. HJMitchell   You rang?   23:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I'll get working on the titles section now. I almost feel guilty for having to cut down the info that another editor added, but if it's going to stop Neighbours getting GA status then it has to be done. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 23:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just done some work on the Titles section, I've added a couple more refs which now means that the Titles section should have at least 11 references for it. I've tried to use sources other than Perfect Blend but in some cases where I've exhausted all other possibilities I have had to cite them.  I would hope though that 11 references would be sufficient for this section though --5 albert square (talk) 00:48, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not about having certain number of refs, it's about having a ref for every fact that isn't common knowledge (per WP:V). You don't need to cite that the sky is blue (there's an essay in project space somewhere to that effect) but anything that isn't obvious should be cited. If you can't cite it, it'll probably have to go. I'll take a look anyway.  HJMitchell    You rang?   00:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * In the next minute or so I'm going to edit the titles section. I've pretty much removed all of the information and have typed up something different. I've been lucky and I've managed to find some good references for the info too. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, I've changed the titles section. Have a look and let me know what you think. - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * BRILLIANT! YES! Exactly what it needed! You've just made me a very happy man. Now I can promote it and archive my talk page! It still needs work- a few more refs and a bit of a tidy up but there are no major issues now. Might be worth adding a small number of Perfect Blend refs back to support what your new sources don't (as long as it's not controversial). Right, I'm going to list at WP:GA before i can find a reason not to! HJMitchell    You rang?   01:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * WOOHOO!! By the way HJ, do you know how we can issue barnstars and get one of those notice things that says "this user helped promote such-and-such to good article status"?  --5 albert square (talk) 01:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, WOHOO about sums it up! Most barnstars are listed at WP:BARN- just copy and paste the template code and add your message. For the userbox, I think it's or if you just want the little icon at the top (like mine) just nick it from my userpage (I copied it from someone else!). HJMitchell   You rang?   01:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yay! We've managed to make Neighbours a GA by the end of the year. I'm glad you're happy HJ, thank you so much for all of your help. :D - JuneGloom07 (talk) 01:47, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Good job. Really. I'm impressed we managed to get it done before it got to the top of the GAN section (my other review is up there atm!) and before the new year! What are you going to do next? Any more GAs planned? HJMitchell    You rang?   02:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think I want to help bring another article up for GA status for a long while. :) - JuneGloom07 (talk) 02:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow! Another one! Thank you! It's quite humbling the number of them I'm racking up! You both did a grand job- even if it took bloody ages and hundreds of edits and 5 very long threads on my talk page! Of course, you could both help out at WP:GAN which is semi-permanently backlogged if you wanted. Generally, it's not that difficult! I need a wikibreak after that RfA so I might not be on for a few days. I'm sure I'm entitled since I was reverting vandalism on Christams Day! Haha! The things we do for this encyclopaedia....! HJMitchell    You rang?   02:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Sock puppet policy' in a nutshell (re:John254)
"This page in a nutshell: The general rule is one editor, one account. Do not use multiple accounts to mislead, deceive, or disrupt; to create the illusion of greater support for a position; to stir up controversy; or to circumvent a block. Do not ask your friends to create accounts to support you."

A banned user creating sock to nominate articles for deletion and create flagged bots is not, under any policies, allowed. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 22:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I did consider WP:CLEANSTART and other legitimate uses of secondary accounts but my brief brush up on WP:SOCK etc tells me that, if the first account is banned or blocked, cleanstart doesn't apply. HJMitchell    You rang?   22:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally I think wikipedians go overboard on sock puppet accusations. But in this case User:John254 was just having a little school's out fun, and there was no attempt to hide the fact that it was a John254 sock puppet. Some of his are clever, and some are throw-aways. This one was a throw-away, and the community is more familiar with his socks than I am, so it was not necessary for me to give the kind of details that convince anyone else of the sock puppetry. So, you ran into a long-standing sock puppetry case in which a lot of folks were in-the-know and not all the information was at the AN/I. So, no problem you were a bit confused. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 22:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries. I spend a fair bit of time at ANI and it happens every now and again, especially when an issue re-emerges that was before the time of many of the current rollbackers and some newer admins. At least it's sorted, anyway. I agree people are often too ready to shout "SOCK!" (see the first neutral in my RfA!) and it can be damaging, but it seems you were correct in this instance. Good work. Sorry about the rough ride you've been having at my RfA btw. HJMitchell    You rang?   22:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorrier for you at your RFA. It doesn't have impact on me to have someone advocate for you by saying to me, "You're a newbie, you're stupid." It just reflects badly upon the speaker and, unfortunately, because it's gone overboard, upon you also for being nominated by a member of the community who would make such a comment in your active RfA. I left to RfA to remove myself as a target of Coffee, in the hopes that he would stop attacking me and making you look badly for it. I think you need work before you become an admin, and I think you're not really considering that, but, I'm not going to work against you other than having my say in the process. You're not going to sink the ship if you become an admin, even if you're not ready. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 23:18, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for the not-quite-vote-of-confidence anyway! You're entitled to express your opinion and, as I say, I'm sorry you had a rough ride for it. You and others raise valid concerns and, regardless of the outcome of the RfA, I'll work on those. I agree the nom was early but not, I think premature. Thanks for stopping by, anyway. You're always welcome to drop in if you need something. HJMitchell    You rang?   23:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

RFA
Hey man I suggest withdrawing the RFA, I struck my nom per your comment on WP:SOCK. Sorry, I hate to make you look bad, but it does seem like you need just a tad (I mean a small tad) bit of more experience. I'll re-nom in 6 months gladly. Sorry again, I hate to have put you through this. --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 03:02, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No need to apologise, you've been brilliant and you've done more than enough for me. I was actually about to post to the crats when I got the orange bar. In hindsight, perahps it was a little premature, but I learnt a lot. One last thing- how do I send thankspam? There are a few comments I'd like to acknowledge. HJMitchell    You rang?   03:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * MOst people use AWB because it makes the process of automating a very large number of edits easier. -- <B>Soap</B> Talk/Contributions 03:27, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry to see you withdraw. I think you're a good user, but it seems you still have some learning to do, as most newer contributors (myself included) do.  Looks like you're on the right path though.  I expect to see you at RFA again in 2010, and until then I'll see you around ITN.  Good luck and Happy Holidays ~ DC (Talk&#124;Edits) 03:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it wasn't going to pass and after that badly timed weighing in on a discussion I knew nothing about and poor reading around the issue, I thought I'd save everyone the trouble of striking their support! If ITN doesn;t get another admin, I might try again in a few months. Thanks for your kindness. HJMitchell    You rang?   03:31, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Bummer.[[Image:Sad-tpvgames.gif]] I've barely looked at all these policy/guideline/rule things. Just head down↓ bum up↑ maintaining things and adding where I can for the last 3½ months. Is it true that Wikipedia is losing LOTS of editors? (I have a link to story on my talkpage) --220.101.28.25 (talk) 03:32, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey I created a cute little card for you here's the code to use it: . And a lot of people use AWB for this process. --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee  //  have a cup  //  ark  // 03:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This RFA has been a tough go, HJ Mitchell. You've handled it quite commendably and proven yourself to have a head on your shoulders. I would have withdrawn by support wrt the comment about socks/John645, but I still "moral support" in spirit. I can tell you're a good guy, reasonable and honest. Stick around and get more acquainted with the stuff, and I think many will be supportive of a future RfA. Jamie  S93  23:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

break
I've archived it and completed all the general maintenance associated with it. Sorry to see it turned out that way, and best of luck for next time. Happy holidays, regards, – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries, thanks Julian. See you next time hopefully! All the best with your RfB. HJMitchell    You rang?   03:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep your chin up. You seem like a good egg; a little more experience should do it.  Best wishes,  Durova  390 03:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I appreciate that. Can you tell me how I send thankspam? HJMitchell    You rang?   03:42, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 04:11, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Techical question
How'd you put the message "welcome to my talk page..." on the edit form. I'd like to have something like it for mine. ~ DC (Talk&#124;Edits) 05:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Take a look at WP:EDITNOTICE. Cheers, --<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;"><big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  ark  // 06:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks ~ DC (Talk&#124;Edits) 06:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
 Lourie Pieterse  07:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

RfA
I'm sorry that it turned out the way it did, but I know you'll do much better the next time.  fetch  comms  ☛ 18:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Good luck next time...RfA can be rather negative sometimes which is why I am scared of putting myself forward! Francium12 20:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I mean this in a light hearted way, but some of my fellow Irish people get really annoyed with 'God Save the Queen'. There is some history to the matter. Good look in six months with Rfa .2 :P Cargoking   talk  23:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)