User talk:HandballHero

Sources - please read all before responding
Look, I am sorry if I am coming on too strong. You appear to have taken offence, when that is not my intent. This is a long reply, but please read it before flying off the handle with anymore tit-for-tat stuff.

You asre still struggling to understand the concept of what secondary, tertiary and reliable sources are. Since you are sourcing only official websites (primary sources) and fan blogs and sites (unreliable sources) I do wonder and are quite snarky responding it leads me to believe you do not understand.

Have you linked to any sources independant of the subject matter, like general news pages/papers?

If you haven't read WP:PRIMARY, let me summarise:

Primary: Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved. They offer an insider's view of an event, a period of history, a work of art, a political decision, and so on. Primary sources may or may not be independent or third-party sources. An account of a traffic accident written by a witness is a primary source of information about the accident; similarly, a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source on the outcome of that experiment. Unless restricted by another policy, reliable primary sources may be used in Wikipedia; but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them. Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source.

Secondary: A secondary source provides an author's own thinking based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains an author's interpretation, analysis, or evaluation of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources. Secondary sources are not necessarily independent or third-party sources. They rely on primary sources for their material, making analytic or evaluative claims about them. For example, a review article that analyzes research papers in a field is a secondary source for the research. Whether a source is primary or secondary depends on context. A book by a military historian about the Second World War might be a secondary source about the war, but if it includes details of the author's own war experiences, it would be a primary source about those experiences. A book review too can be an opinion, summary or scholarly review. Wikipedia articles usually rely on material from reliable secondary sources. Articles may make an analytic or evaluative claim only if that has been published by a reliable secondary source.

Tertiary: Tertiary sources are publications such as encyclopedias and other compendia that summarize primary and secondary sources. Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Many introductory undergraduate-level textbooks are regarded as tertiary sources because they sum up multiple secondary sources. Reliable tertiary sources can be helpful in providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources, and may be helpful in evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other. Some tertiary sources are more reliable than others, and within any given tertiary source, some articles may be more reliable than others. Wikipedia articles may not be used as tertiary sources in other Wikipedia articles.

Also from WP:GNG; If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.

"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material.

"Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media, and in any language. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability.

"Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected.[3] Sources do not have to be available online and do not have to be in English. Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability.

"Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent.

"Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject should be included. A more in-depth discussion might conclude that the topic actually should not have a stand-alone article—perhaps because it violates what Wikipedia is not, particularly the rule that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information.

If a topic does not meet these criteria but still has some verifiable facts, it might be useful to discuss it within another article.


 * http://www.ihf.info is a Primary source
 * http://taipramadani.net/ is a primary source
 * http://www.todor66.com/ is an unreliable fan page.
 * http://www.handballaustralia.org.au/ is down - no longer exists
 * http://www.sports-reference.com May be a reliable secondary source, however as it is just a stockpile of results, all it can be used for is the confirmation of results. It does not do anything towards notability for example.

Instead of tit-for-tat arguing with articles I worked on six years ago, how about working towards making these handball articles good articles instead of pleading "They ARE notable! I say so!".

Believe it or not, I am trying to help you. If I was trying to be destructive, I would have sent all these articles at Articles for deletion. As they currently sit, most would fail and be deleted. I am trying to help you get these articles to a position where they will be protected from deletion.

Do you understand what I am trying to say? --Falcadore (talk) 06:41, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I understand. And I have read the WP:PRIMARY and viewed it differently, but clearer now. The problem I have with Handball is that it's predominantly a European sport with massive coverage in many languages, not much in English. Here in Australia it's run mainly by volunteers. As they come & go, information gets lost etc. I have spoken to all the presidents of each states associations, most of which I played with in the national team, to see if we can get some solid info, score sheets, newspaper articles etc. As it's an Olympic sport, we get coverage the year of the Olympics & that's about it. We win the Oceania championships but that still doesn't generate a lot of coverage. We will get better info coming through, but it will take time & I'll update as it comes in.
 * Thanks for your support. --HandballHero (talk) 07:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * If it is a volunteer run sport in Australia, that suggests it might not be sufficiently notable for Wikipedia. The dotted line between professionals and volunteers is pretty close to what the cut off is for Wikipedia notability, regardless of sport or nationality. So while European handball would pass muster for Wikipedia inclusion, Australian handball might struggle. If you ever wanted a rough rule of thumb for sporting notability, that is it. --Falcadore (talk) 08:09, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Noted. I'll stick to the pro leagues (NSW, QLD & VIC), National Championships and World & Olympic qualifiers. Our top players earn good money in Europe. Our national & top states federations are very professional, but some states are quite amateur. Because its an Olympic sport, there is government money, so our most players/coaches/administrators are paid.--HandballHero (talk) 10:28, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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Usage of motorsport season template
Hello HandballHero. I've noticed you've used the Template:Motorsport season on a number of handball articles, i.e 2014 Queensland Handball League season, 2014 New South Wales Handball League season. There's nothing wrong with this, but please be advised the template has recently been modified, by removing the automatic addition of "season" in the title and the previous/next links, which has broken the links on the aforementioned handball articles. You may want to consider either using another template (Perhaps Template:Infobox international handball competition?) or modifying the "link" parameter on motorsport template, like I've done on the 2014 New South Wales article here, when creating future pages. Thanks! QueenCake (talk) 17:24, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 10
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 * 2016 Australian National Handball Championship season
 * added a link pointing to Victoria


 * Australian National Handball Championship
 * added a link pointing to Victoria

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Speedy deletion nomination of Queensland Handball League
Hello HandballHero,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Queensland Handball League for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions.

Dr Strauss  talk  11:12, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

2017 Brisbane Lions Women's page
I'm sorry that you're upset about what happened on the 2017 Brisbane Lions Women's page, but this is an issue that has already been discussed at WT:AFL, so having the page is actually against consensus in the project. Therefore, there wasn't a need to discuss it on the talk page as there has already been a discussion about it. You're more than welcome to bring it up again at WT:AFL with a good enough reason for why it should have it's own page; apart from that, the page didn't have a single independent source so there's issues with that too. Please see 2017 Carlton Football Club season, 2017 Collingwood Football Club season and 2017 Melbourne Football Club season as examples for how the women's teams are being done. I know it's not a great feeling having your work removed (and it's happened to me too) but as I alluded to in the edit summary there is already a consensus against this. Thanks, Flickerd (talk)
 * I don't agree. Then start the 2017 Lions page and add my work to it. Don't be lazy --HandballHero (talk) 10:06, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I gathered that you didn't agree, but like I said you're more than welcome to bring it up at WT:AFL. I also don't appreciate being called lazy as I actually do a fair amount of work in relation to AFL on Wikipedia and if you looked at my contributions or my user page, you'd see that. May I remind you about Civility, just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you need to resort to being uncivil. I've noticed the Brisbane Lions doesn't have a 2017 page yet, but there is a Brisbane editor who creates the page every year, and he hasn't done it yet for 2017, but when he has then it can be added. If it hasn't been created after a while, then I'll probably get around to doing it, but I have other priorities at the moment on Wikipedia. You're more than welcome to create the page if you wish, and it would actually be very much appreciated as we need more help in the AFL project to add more information and get things up to date. Flickerd (talk) 10:23, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Handball
Hey. I saw you edited some handball articles. Pleas visit the WikiProject Handball and Portal:Handball. You can also add you to the handball members list. When you edit handball article pleas add an assessment to the talk like:. --Malo95 (talk) 14:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of UTS-UC Hawks Handball Club
Please visit the discussion about the Proposed deletion of UTS-UC Hawks Handball Club. --Malo95 (talk) 18:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 18
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2019 Oceania Women's Youth Handball Championship moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, 2019 Oceania Women's Youth Handball Championship, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 09:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * User:CASSIOPEIA. As you can see by the date of the tournament, it has just finished. Most press from this tournament has been on Social Media, which we cannot use on Wiki. As time goes on,ie early this week, more articles will be written and added to the main page. KnobEnd. --HandballHero (talk) 09:51, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi HanballHero, Greetings. Pls see my message to you on the below and pls read the link I provided. When you find independent, reliable sources (secondary sources) (we need at least 3) then add them in (inline citations pls) to the draft and submit for review (click the submit button atop of the draft page). Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 09:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * User:CASSIOPEIA, do not be rude & condescending. As you can see I have been editing for some time. As I explained, I have been adding external links over the past few days, if you took the time to review the page properly. --HandballHero (talk) 10:02, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi HanballHero, What you have provided are sources associated with the subject which do not considered secondary sources but primary. What we needed are significant coverage from independent, reliable or verification sources where by the sources talk about the subject in length and in depth and not merely passing mentioned.  Pls note that sources from user generated sites, official web site, home page, press releases, sources associated with the subject,  interviews, and etc can NOT be used to contribute/demonstrate the notability requirements needed.  Source from major newspapers is considered good sources and sources can be in any languages. - see WP:GOLDENRULE. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 10:11, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

2019 Oceania Women's Handball Challenge Trophy moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, 2019 Oceania Women's Handball Challenge Trophy, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 09:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello HandballHero, greetings. Pls note that sources associated wit the subject, press releases, interview, official website, user generated site, trivial info such as results of the match, and etc can NOT be used to contribute to the subject notability. We need multiple secondary sources where by the sources talk about the subject in length and in dept and not merely passing mentioned. - Pls see WP:GOLDENRULE. Thank you.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;color:#FA0"> CASSIOPEIA</b>(<b style="#0000FF">talk</b>) 09:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Signatures
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), such as at Talk:2019 IHF Emerging Nations Championship, please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
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Thank you.--Malo95 (talk) 08:23, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Welcome. I've been on for 5 years #Condescending --HandballHero (talk) 01:24, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hey. I didn't want you to condescending. I didn't realize that you are on for 5 years. I only saw at Talk:2019 IHF Emerging Nations Championship that you didn't signed your post and so I used the Template:Uw-tilde.--Malo95 (talk) 08:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: 2019 Oceania Women's Handball Challenge Trophy has been accepted
<div style="border:solid 1px #57DB1E; background:#E6FFE6; padding:1em; padding-top:0.5em; padding-bottom:0.5em; width:20em; color:black; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> 2019 Oceania Women's Handball Challenge Trophy, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Missvain (talk) 22:33, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=2019_Oceania_Women%27s_Handball_Challenge_Trophy help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.


 * Ridiculous that it was sent to Draft. Poor editing by who ever did that!--203.45.30.254 (talk) 05:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: 2019 Oceania Women's Youth Handball Championship has been accepted
<div style="border:solid 1px #57DB1E; background:#E6FFE6; padding:1em; padding-top:0.5em; padding-bottom:0.5em; width:20em; color:black; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> 2019 Oceania Women's Youth Handball Championship, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Missvain (talk) 23:08, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=2019_Oceania_Women%27s_Youth_Handball_Championship help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.


 * Ridiculous that it was sent to Draft. Poor editing by who ever did that!--203.45.30.254 (talk) 05:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Oceania Youth Beach Handball Championship


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