User talk:Handley Willoughby

Mary Fisher (AIDS)
Please do not overwrite an existing page with another article. I have moved your information to the above link, but PRODded it. Boleyn2 (talk) 18:03, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

January 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from. If you wish to work on an article about this particular Mary Fisher, please do so at Mary Fisher (AIDS). It is inappropriate to overwrite existing articles or "disambiguation" pages with new articles. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:32, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Mary Fisher (AIDS)
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Mary Fisher (AIDS), but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a copy from http://www.sedona.biz/mary-fisher-abataka-sedona0108.htm http://www.maryfisher.org/news.htm, and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), versions 1.3 or later then you should do one of the following:


 * If you have permission from the author leave a message explaining the details at Talk:Mary Fisher (AIDS) and send an email with confirmation of permission to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
 * If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or that the material is released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:Mary Fisher (AIDS) with a link to where we can find that note.
 * If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:Mary Fisher (AIDS).

It may also be necessary for the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and to follow Wikipedia article layout. For more information on Wikipedia's policies, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at [ this temporary page]. Leave a note at Talk:Mary Fisher (AIDS) saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

General feedback
Hello. You seem to be a new contributor running into some situations with which you may not be familiar. I'm sorry if you're finding the process frustrating. I know that getting started on Wikipedia in such a major way can be complex!

The first problem that you ran into came from your overwriting an existing page with new information. We do not overwrite existing titles, but create new ones, "disambiguated"--that is, with a parenthetical note distinguishing them from others of existing name. The page you were editing is a "disambiguation" page meant to help all searchers find individuals named Mary Fisher.

The second problem is that the contributor who tagged your article for "proposed deletion" did not feel that your content amply demonstrated the notability of your subject. Usually, articles are not immediately tagged for deletion for this reason (unless they give no indication of significance at all; the best basketball player on his middle school team probably won't meet our notability guidelines). Usually, a "notability" tag is placed inviting you to add reliable sources, unconnected from the subject, to verify that she (in this case) has been the subject of widespread attention. Anyone, including the article's creator, can remove a "PROD" tag, but it's a good idea to provide those sources to prevent the article being deleted through other processes.

The third problem, unfortunately, is a slightly larger one in that some of the material in this article has been copied from previously published sources. As the "form letter" above points out, we can only use previously published material if it is released under a license compatible with GFDL (the license we use) or if it is public domain. We would need permission from the copyright holders to use it unless such a license is noted at the site. The tag above gives you directions to follow in verifying that permission. Otherwise, the material will need to be rewritten in your own words to remove the infringement.

Please let me know if you have any questions about this. I am watching your talk page, but you are also welcome to approach me at mine. Thanks. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:48, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Two additional notes: I have challenged the PROD. While this article needs reliable sources, I think it was premature to propose it for deletion since its subject seems plenty notable. That means that the article will not be automatically deleted, although it will still need reliable sources added to it eventually. I am also disinclined to think that "Mary Fisher (AIDS)" is a good title for it. I would think "Mary Fisher (author)" or "Mary Fisher (activist)" might be better. After the copyright concerns are worked out, we can figure out in which field she is best known and move the article to an appropriate name. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Your note
Hi, and thanks for your note. I'm glad you weren't discouraged completely. It is complicated for a newbie; I remember the feeling well. :) The first thing we should probably work on is either verifying permission to use the previously published text or revising it. A good place to work on that revision, if you choose to go that way, is here. There are some "style guide" issues that don't matter too much when you're first working on establishing an article, but if you want to know more about them see Manual of Style (biographies). We try to write in an encyclopedic fashion here, which is not as colorful as regular journalism, but a little more succinct. For instance, a biographical article would start out like this: "Madeup Person (born December 7, 1943) is an American author. Among his works, #1 best-sellers Madeup Title and Madeup Title: The Sequel are particularly well known, both having been adapted for major films." We start by saying who our subject is and then what makes him or her important. In this case, you might have something like: "Mary Fisher (born April 6, 1948) is an American author, artist, activist and philanthropist. She is best known for [notable accomplishment or two; perhaps several sentences, as she is active in so many fields.]"

After the Lead, you'd start a new section using subheaders as described at Layout. (Two equal signs gives you a major section; three equal signs gives you a subsection to that; so on. It's usually better not to go too deep in subsections.)

As to retitling it, that's easily done, but I think we should do it after the copyright issue is resolved. What we'll do is move the article to its new title. You won't be able to do that until you've been registered and active a little longer—surprisingly, a fair number of vandals to Wikipedia think it's fun to move articles to stupid names, and as this is a strain on resources the developers have limited that access to users who've been here at least a little while—but if it's ready before you've reached that point, I can easily move it for you. What title do you think would be best for this? It's a little hard when you have somebody who is active in several fields. Is she best known as an activist or an author? A philanthropist? That's where it should go.

After we know the name of the new article, it will be easy to link her up from her father's article. We'd go to Max Fisher and wikilink her. If we were wikilinking to her current location, that markup would look like this: Mary Fisher, which would render in the article like this: Mary Fisher. Readers won't see the "disambiguation" text; just the highlighted name. Since the link includes the "disambiguation" text, it's probably better to wait until that's settled before linking the article, particularly as it won't be much to read until the copyright question is resolved. :)

Again, you're welcome to respond here or at my talk page. And thanks for not giving up. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Your note
Thanks for your note; good to see you back. You have a reply. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)