User talk:Handspup

Griggsville Landing
Okay, please don't accuse me of misleading anyone, the information I put in this article was referenced and to the IDNR. (See WP:AGF) Second, please provide a source for your material, I have reorganized the article a bit, but you need to add some sources to the talk page. The second part of your addition appeared to be a word for word copy from a book, or other publication. This is fine if the work is in the public domain but you need to provide evidence it is, because I can't find it on Google Books, or anywhere on the web for that matter. Just post the sources to the talk page and I can add them. Thanks.IvoShandor (talk) 15:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Please point out the false information you say I have added, because, frankly, that's nonsense, and it angers me that you would make such an accusation, especially considering the only material I added is still in the article, and it is NOT contradicted by your addition. IvoShandor (talk) 15:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't want to argue, but it is not conducive to collaboration when you go around making unsupported accusations in edit summaries. Let's work together to improve the article. IvoShandor (talk) 15:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how to reply to the message you sent me other than putting a message in here like this. Don't be angry about my edit. It's not worth getting emotional over. Simply put, I grew here in Griggsville and have tons of printed material about this town, Valley City, Pike County, and the history of Illinois from original books dating as far back as 1819. My ancestors settled this territory. What you have published is nice but inacurate. Acemdemically you may feel you are truthful but only from an outsider's point of view, not accurate to what events occured here. Unfortunately when anyone does a search on the internet for Griggville, IL now Wikipedia pops up first. The information of misleading and harmful to children who don't understant that Wikipedia is an unreliable source of information.

As to my credit due to the author of the Geneology from the Stead I included that in my first posting which somebody deleted. I gave the author credit without including the date of print but everything else was included.

My only concern with pages put in Wikipedia about this area is that if you are not from here, you have no real knowledge of the area and by putting superficial state government information on the web page misleads readers about criteria pertinent to the subject. The fact that Ray Norbut Wild Life and Fish Area is something the state implanted on the area has nothing to do with the history of Pike County, Griggsville Landing, Griggsville, IL, Flint Township, or anything remotely close to what this area is about.

I don't take the willingness of someone unrelated to the area putting up web pages about the town or the town's history lightly given that what you have published is grossly misinformed. If you are a resident or a native of Pike County I appologize but somehow I do not believe I know who you are or where you reside. It's not necessary to explain where you live however you should at least give someone with intimate knowledge about this area the opportunity to present informative, accurate, material to help the educational goals of Wikipedia rather than insert material you find on the internet as factual complete history.

I will attempt to make other Wikipedia pages that offer facts unrelated to something coming out of Springfield, IL as the only definitive source of Illinois history.

What you posted was o.k. I don't mean that it was completely wrong, but you don't have enough information about Griggsville Landing other than what the state put out once they came in and bought up the land putting their stamp over everything, everyone, and all the history of these people and places.

My insights tell me that maybe your feelings of people actually from here are that we are all inbred hillbillies with no educational skills equal to those people not from here. If I am anything, I am qualified to make accusations about the incorrect presentation someone (maybe you) provided to Wikipedia regarding Griggsville Landing.

I have ample books with complete documented history of everything I have spoken about but I have doubts that even if I presented them they would remain posted on Wikipedia since anyone can edit the page as you did when you removed everything I put simply because you were insulted. I guess you felt you owned the site, the page, and the material. Rather than let anyone offer anything, you destroyed what I posted.

This is why Wikipedia is unreliable.

I don't know what else to say. I can offer a far greater amount of information but somehow I imagine this would offend your sensitivites about who is smart and who is not smart.


 * My insights tell me that maybe your feelings of people actually from here are that we are all inbred hillbillies with no educational skills equal to those people not from here. If I am anything, I am qualified to make accusations about the incorrect presentation someone (maybe you) provided to Wikipedia regarding Griggsville Landing.

What are you talking about, you have no idea what I think. What I do think is that you are probably not familiar with the relevant Wikipedia guidelines governing article content. WP:V, and others. All I am asking for is source material. I don't doubt the veracity of it. I never said I did. You assume way too much.

I didn't mean the state was the end all of end alls for sources but they certainly aren't considered unreliable. Just because an article doesn't have all relevant information doesn't mean it is false, it just needs work. I think you are missing the point of Wikipedia as a collaboration.

People can post short articles in the hope that someone who knows more or has access to more info can expand it later. This is what I am hoping for with that article. As I said all I wanted was sources. I asked for them on the talk page of the article, where I had removed the largely unreferenced sections you added and asked for a source. You ignored this, reposted the material and then attacked my credibility in the edit summary. This is annoying, and unnecessary, not to mention hurtful. But I suppose you don't care about that, since I don't know anything about the topic and am obviously unqualified to read books like you. IvoShandor (talk) 17:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Man, you're a piece of work. I didn't destroy anything. I put it on the talk page until it could be verified, and I have even fixed up some of what you posted. Sorry buddy, but your assertions are not a reliable source. Wikipedia isn't unreliable because of people like me, I demand sources because an encyclopedia needs them to be reliable. If you add some sources I wouldn't have a problem with anything you posted. Since you cannot seem to be civil at all, and jumped to all sorts or erroneous conclusions about me and my motives I will no longer be interacting with you. I only wanted verification. IvoShandor (talk) 17:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Btw: This: Griggsville Landing, Illinois is a former town site on the Illinois River in Pike County, Illinois. The town was a steamboat stop which began sometime in the 1830s. There was a lime kiln there that was part of a commercial lime operation prior to post Civil War industrial intensification in the lime industry.[1] The town at Griggsville Landing was home to a boat yard, a grist mill and a hotel in additon to the Griggsville Landing Lime Kiln, built around 1850, which is still standing as of 2007. The town was eventually abandoned, rendering it a ghost town. is all I ever posted, its called a stub. It is not misinformed, just not very detailed, and its still in the frackin' article. Your details practically supported everything there. Before I came along there wasn't a single thing on Wikipedia about the place. Unbelievable. The things you have said are lies and hurtful. I have to say, I loathe you. IvoShandor (talk) 17:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What the heck is UTC? Some college?


 * The reason the landing was put on the national register of historic sites was political, not historical. The IDNR wanted to keep the property available for themselves and their buddies for hunting and river access. The land for years was privately owned, used as a boat launch on the river until a few years ago.  The only way they could keep control of the property was to designate something historic and keep control over who uses it.

That crap about the kiln is just jibberish used to legally operate within government to control grounds along the river. All that other crap about it's historic value is grossly overstated and misused for the state of Illinois employees who have dibs on the hunting and fishing rights they now oversee. It's typical of how politicians in Illinois manuver around laws. I understand if you are unaware of Illinois politics or maybe you are a state worker. Who knows? I doubt you would explain your true intentions for creating this web garbage about the kiln as truth.


 * Alright, so as I mentioned prior, you are way too emotional over your mistakes.

On your page you have Valley City listed as a ghost town in blue. There are many people still living in Valley City as of today, Nov. 27 at 2 p.m.  They never abandoned the town. There are many people who would laugh if I told them I read on the internet that Valley City is a ghost town. Why would you put that on a web page? What possessed you to do that?


 * My second point to your corrupt informatoin is that Griggsville Landing or Phillips Landing as it was called (because the man who built it last name was Phillips, his descendents still live a couple of miles from the site) was not in Valley City but close by. The ground where the landing was placed was low enough for larger boats (steam boats) to navigate in the deeper water.  Valley City the town was about one half mile further up on higher ground because it never flooded there which is why the settlers built homes, businesses, hotels, and churches.  It was on the higher ground until the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers built the levees.


 * The photo graph I posted to the Wilipedia web site was given to me last week by one of the members of the Griggsville Geneological Society so I could illustrate what the landing appeared like, not the town of Valley City some half mile away.


 * My grandfather (born 1901) who was born in a house next to the Phillips house grew up in Valley City attending school in Flint township. As children they used to play in the knee deep river during the summer when it was hot.  In the winter they would go to to Ice House in Valley City and get ice off the back of the horse drawn carts that pulled the ice wagon up the hill four miles to Griggsville.  These are first hand accounts from my family who I love dearly.  For you to demand some book reference is idiotic.  You don't respect intelegence or not intelectually suited to appraise yourself the deacon of knowledge.

I understand you point and clicked your information and slapped it on a web page. It takes mere minutes to do so. I understand you believe that state is a reliable source of information not taking into account the politics involved in how they treat history and information. I respect that you believe everything the state of Illinois presents on IDNR web pages but directly or indirectly you are mis-informed.

I could provide source materials, copy-righted and un-copyrighted material but you are contentious about being educated by someone you don't know, have no respect for by stating you "loath" me? What the heck is that about? Why would you loath a complete stranger? That doesn't even make sense.

You wrote: Unbelievable. in your reply. Why? Is it that your ego is so insensed that someone knew something more than you? Why did you take upon yourself to print a web page about something you know nothing about and then get upset when someone who has actual information replied?


 * This is why Wikipedia is worthless. You are the prime example of why people can not trust the information on the site even with your foot notes about books and web sites and references to rules about how to present information.  Your sources are garbage no matter what you presented.  You are not from the area, have no direct knowledge of anything about Valley City.  You should have never appointed yourself as the one who put up any information.  You had no business doing so. You merely regard yourself as the one who had to step up and get something on Wikipedia.

Who told you to do this? Why would you feel it was your 1. right to do so                2. your duty do put up this misinformation 3. your duty to attack me as a stranger who lives in the area with direct knowledge?

I am embarrassed for you even though I don't know you. You made a lot of mistakes. I don't have to prove to you through any source like a book that you made a fool of yourself. I can do so with books but I am not going to present them as evidence so you can then re-write your mistakes and take credit. Instead I will post my own pages with correct information, state my complete sources, and attach photo's illustrating the area I am writing about.

This is not too much for me. It is not unbelievable to me. It is not something difficult to comprehend. I just don't answer to you who are a stanger to me, is strikingly different from people in Griggsville or Valley City who would never assume they have the right to just put up anything as you did about our towns. You should feel shame, not loathing.


 * By the way, "UTC" refers to Coordinated Universal Time. It isn't a college.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Elkman. I'm not sure what the point of including UTC on web pages is...

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