User talk:Harfarhs

Anthony Howard
Hi, I've reverted your edit on the above item re: his editorship of the Crossman Diaries. The Diaries are listed on Amazon and other bookselling sources as being edited by him, I talked about them with Howard not long after he had edited the things and several obituaries mention his editorship, sometimes with a quote from David Cameron to that effect.

Should you have meant something else by the word "erroneous" in your edit summary then feel free to undo my reversion and explain more fully Sitush (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, I have changed your revert to something closer to the facts, while recognising that you have a point. The explanation is on the Anthony Howard 'talk' page. Harfarhs (talk) 22:49, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

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 * Legendary house music  producer Eric Prydz has a track titled "Reeperbahn" under his moniker Pryda.

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 * ] (1990): the sequel to Arthur C. Clarke's earlier work Against the Fall of Night'' written by Gregory Benford. The sequel is very different in tone and theme from its

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Lies - accusations of vandalism
Don't ever do that again. And see Featured article candidates/The Boat Race 1993/archive1 if you'd like to see where consensus for the current "vandalised" version came from. Never post on my talk page again, and if I find you inappropriately editing against consensus, I will seek further action. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:39, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * There's no ban on editing even where a "consensus" has occurred. And my acusation was quite right - you didn't attempt to consult me, you just reverted wholesale when what you obviously think of as 'your' precious article got changed. Aw, diddums! And you're so insecure that you even reverted what I posted on your talk page. You really need help. Anyway, here it is:

"The alterations I made were not "americanisms" but on the contrary were standard English. Before I saw it, the article wasn't bad but had quite a few awkward, periphrastic phrases that were crying out to be replaced with plain simple language. Also, there were many double-spaced sentences (against Wikipedia policy). Thanks to your vandalism, I'll now have to spend the best part of an evening trying to sort it out. Please attempt to think very carefully before doing anything so stupid and thoughtless again. Harfarhs (talk) 18:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)"


 * Please think very, very carefully before lying again, please think very carefully before using personal attacks again, and please think very carefully before making up policies that simply don't exist. Your lies are transparent for all to see.  If you think you need to spend the best of an evening trying to sort it out, perhaps you should think of something else better to do with your time, your "help", accusations and lies are really not needed.   If the quality of your posts here and at my talkpage are anything to go by, you're doing more damage than good.  The Rambling Man (talk) 18:57, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not lying. I'm not attempting to hide Wikipedia communications - unlike you. You seem to have an obsession with making ludicrous accusations against others. I have a long-established history of making nothing but constructive changes, and I will continue making them on any article I please, thanks all the same. I shan't bother pointing out the policy to which I referred, because you're such a rude, ungrateful ignoramus. Still, never mind - in time others will make the changes I attempted to make, so you'd better guard 'your' article 'well'. Do share all this with anyone you care to - I have nothing to hide. Bye. Harfarhs (talk) 19:38, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Jolly good, hoping to never cross paths again. Good luck with your "policy" on double spaces!!!! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

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Peter Barry - Deputy Leader of Fine Gael section
I saw that this section requires knowledge of Fine Gael. I can help in that if you require information, it's no problem at all. Fantastically. Fantastically (talk) 08:34, 30 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Why is that, ? Is that because you are blocked COI user ? Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:03, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

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Spelling out numbers in words
According to Comparison of American and British English, it is a geographical distinction, where using "and" is British and omitting "and" is American. Given that the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute article is written in American English – well, I didn't go over it with a fine-tooth comb, but I see "color" – perhaps we should drop the "and". What do you think? 𝕃eegrc (talk) 16:53, 26 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you'll find that 99% of WP articles (and other text) in American English use "and" in numbers where there is an effort being made to write in good language, rather than in slang. On a racecourse, or on a trading floor, I'm sure you could find "and" omitted all the time - but this is an encyclopaedia. Maybe looking in The New York Times or The Washington Post will help to decide. Harfarhs (talk) 17:17, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I read Wikipedia and The New York Times all the time and I would have noticed if "and" had appeared in numbers (other than to separate dollars and cents, etc.) because such usage would sound wrong to me … so I am finding the statement that "99% of WP articles (and other text) in American English use 'and'" to be difficult to support. My background is mathematics where I have read a lot of (American English) textbooks; these employ formal writing rather than slang and omit the "and". Do you know of a way to actually quantify usage in Wikipedia or elsewhere? Ideally, the quantification would separately tally British vs. American usage. 𝕃eegrc (talk) 18:37, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

The Google NGRAM viewer supports your position that including "and" is more popular, for numbers such as 140 and 101. 𝕃eegrc (talk) 18:38, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Wolfram MathWorld includes:
 * While some authors prefer to include "and" between various parts of a number name, in this work, "and"s are omitted. For example, the number 101 is called "one hundred one" rather than "one hundred and one." According to most definitive sources (Schildberger 2001; The Chicago Manual of Style 2003, p. 381; Mish 2003, p. 852), either is acceptable. However, The Associated Press Stylebook gives implicit examples in which the "and" is omitted (Goldstein 1998, p. 145). So the fact of the matter is that different sources use different conventions, with some sources even being internally inconsistent. For example, Conway and Guy (1996) list the "(and)" as optional on p. 15, while writing out "one hundred and sixty-three" on p. 25.

That makes it sound like some will say that either way goes and some will say that "and" must be omitted but there aren't any who say that "and" is required. 𝕃eegrc (talk) 18:50, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It's required if one is not writing slang. 1961: "One Hundred And One.." http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9A01E2DC153DEE3ABC4952DFB466838A679EDE 2016: "One-hundred-and-thirty-five.." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/23/we-run-towards-the-screams-meet-the-aleppo-rescue-team-that-saved-5-year-old-omran/ Harfarhs (talk) 20:27, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Having "slang" as the explanation for Wolfram MathWorld and AP is too hard for me to swallow but fortunately your argument does not rest on that description. It appears that you care about the "and" more than I, so I will leave it your way. It has been a pleasure discussing this with you – happy editing! 𝕃eegrc (talk) 11:51, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

1rr and Troubles restriction notification
Due to template limitations I can't change the automatic use of the article/userspace at the start of it hence your name shows but this is regards to Battle of St Matthew's. Please revert your edit and discuss it on the talk page per the above restriction, otherwise you are edit-warring over an edit that has been flagged as contentious by the initial reverting of it. Mabuska (talk) 22:30, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I've only reverted once, so how am I in breach of WP:1RR? Harfarhs (talk) 23:00, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Exactly you have reverted once, but the point is to notify an editor who may not know that Troubles related articles are under such an ArbCom decision unlike ordinary articles, which are typically limited to 3RR. The notification is for your own benefit, not mine. Mabuska (talk) 21:01, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

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Citation white space and capitalization
Please do not alter white space and capitalization in citations as you did in the majority of the last dozen edits (such as this one at Chicano) without a valid reason. This may be a violation of WP:CITEVAR. I would have reverted, but you bundled them with other fixes such as italics and punctuation fixes, and I didn’t want to undo those as well. Just so you know, going forward. Thanks for your edits to improve the encyclopedia. Mathglot (talk) 07:06, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for coming over. Your appreciation is valued. However, I would like to respond thus:
 * a) I contend that it's nothing to do with WP:CITEVAR, which does not refer to the matters you raise above. In the matter of "consensus" mentioned there, if you wished to extend the CITEVAR policy to such matters, you might well consider that in a vast number of articles there is (as yet) no consensus on the capitalization and spacing of cites. In passing, though, I have noticed several articles where my spacing idea has been adopted by others - which I have done nothing to promote; I have quite enough to do without such vanity.
 * b) What my actions are to do with is making cites easily readable - "an improvement because it makes the citations easier to understand and edit" (WP:CITEVAR). The unjustifiable presence of capital letters and the unjustifiable absence of spaces, or use of many spaces, all reduce the readability of cites. This is, if you will forgive the phrase, not rocket science. Initial capital letters are used in order to distinguish a word from its uncapitalized form, and therefore a reader always slows up, even momentarily, when encountering one (in order to work out what the capitalization is being used to convey). This applies even in the case of initial capitals in e.g. "Cite web".
 * c) Given that my edits are designed to improve every aspect of an article where I find improvement possible, indifferent to what the aspect might be, it's scarely surprising if different type of change come to be "bundled" with others. However, perhaps that point was already obvious, in which case I apologise.


 * Again, thanks for your message. Harfarhs (talk) 21:52, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Point by point:
 * a) You’re right, it wasn’t CITEVAR but MOS:VAR, which says: "The Arbitration Committee has expressed the principle that 'When either of two styles are acceptable it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change.' "
 * b) "Unjustifiable" to you, maybe; though obviously not to the editor whose edit you altered, and to others. What you consider obvious and not rocket science, has no basis in Wikipedia policy or guidelines, it’s merely your own personal preference.
 * Please respect MOS:VAR and refrain from making such changes in the future. If you believe they improve the article, please discuss on the Talk page of the article first as MOS:VAR recommends, and attempt to gain consensus for it. If you believe that capitalized versions are better, or that versions with embedded spaces are better not only in a specific article but everywhere for the reasons you list above, please take that up on the Talk page of the guideline or policy and try to get consensus there. Failing that, edits of this type are pure personal preference, and that type of edit is against the guideline. Thanks,  Mathglot (talk) 05:23, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Again, I contend that the material you are using to support your argument does not refer to the matters under discussion here. I say that having just read the pages you wikilinked to in your reply above. Still, thanks for coming over. Harfarhs (talk) 06:24, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

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Julius Streicher
While I agree with most of your edits for concision (thanks for those), please express page numbers like 23 to 24 as 23–24 and not 23–4. While this latter was convention many decades back, historians (not amateurs, but academics) now generally write out the entire page number for clarity. Thanks --Obenritter (talk) 00:18, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I'm pleased that you appreciate my edits! I'm certain that I didn't make any alterations to the manner in which page numbers are cited - but I completely agree with what you say, the format you have changed them to is the right one. (I believe there is even something in the MOS saying so!) Best wishes, Harfarhs (talk) 00:42, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Edit conflict in Portsmouth
I'm almost done copyediting this very long article in preparation for an FA nomination. I was editing the Sport section when you edit-conflicted with me by editing the entire article. Although I was able to resolve the conflict, please edit by section; I'm stepping back from the article until it stabilizes (pinging, who requested the copyedit). Barring further edit conflicts, I hope to finish the copyedit in the next day or so. All the best,  Mini  apolis  13:58, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, many thanks for coming over. I was not notified of any edit conflict, but I'm sorry for inadvertently causing difficulty. I'll look at the article again in a few days! Best wishes, Harfarhs (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I got the edit-conflict notice when I tried to save my edits after you started editing the whole article. It's very long (62 kB, 10,000 words), so it helps to edit by section; that way, another editor can edit another section at the same time. H:EC explains it better than I can . Stay well and all the best,  Mini  apolis  01:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

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disregard this extended blather, have reverted... I am so exhausted I misread you, and the matter you addressed was correct. Homeschooling threatens to turn me into zombie, please excuse. Peace out PB57 (talk) 00:10, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

BBC Sport
BBC Sport is the work rather than the website, and thus should be used in the 'work' parameter, rather than 'publisher'. Per the documentation for cite news, As BBC Sport is the website and BBC is the organisation, BBC Sport should be considered the 'work'. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 15:58, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's incorrect here, because there is no 'work' in this example. BBC Sport is not a 'work' (read the article); if it were, the article title would be italicized. This is not a new thing; many articles have citations where the source is a publisher (BBC News) or news agency (Reuters) and there is no 'work' to put in the citation. Harfarhs (talk) 16:09, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree though it does depend on semantics a little. But this is the most trivial dispute I've had in a while so I'll leave it. I would appreciate it in future if you don't change BBC Sport from 'work' to 'publisher' when it is the existing format though per WP:CITEVAR. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 16:18, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Sidebars
Hi Harfarhs, I noticed your recent edit here shifted two Sidebars from the lead to the very bottom of the article. I'm not a fan of sidebars myself in most cases, and if you wish to delete them I would not oppose, but when used they are generally expected to be in the lead. I would say that generally a sidebar could be replaced by a navbox at the bottom, but in this case the article already has Philippine and Spanish Empire navboxes which cover the sidebar topics. CMD (talk) 01:41, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi CMD, thanks very much for coming over. I honestly didn't realise that they were sidebars and not more navboxes! Of course you are right about the display conventions, and I see that the conventional way would be better; if you give me ten minutes or so I'll put them back where they were! Harfarhs (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Not problem, although perhaps a script tweak needed if these edits are semi-automated. CMD (talk) 04:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

(The) Serie A
Hi, why did you remove "the" before "Serie A/B" at A.C. Monza? As far as I see it, it's the same as "Premier League", in the sense that we would not say "The club plays in Premier League". Lega Serie A itself also uses "the". Nehme1499 10:02, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Because that is, by far, the usual way in which speakers of English refer to the Italian leagues. See, as a random example I just picked, Sampdoria ("..has been contested in Serie A for most of its history", "For about thirty years the Genoese played constantly in Serie A"). Harfarhs (talk) 10:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it's 50/50. A few sources use "the", others don't. I'd rather keep it as it seems that the league itself uses it. Also, we should keep the collective "they" for teams, as is common practise in UK English. Nehme1499 10:26, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I have been keeping "they" for teams, because they are groups of people. Clubs, however, are corporate bodies and ought to be referred to in the singular; it is not usually a problem to distinguish the two in Wikipedia articles. As for the definite article with 'Serie', I understated my case - I have never heard, or read, anyone whose first language is English refer to, e.g., "the Serie A", only to "Serie A". It is nothing like 50/50; it is not a matter of controversy except in sources that have been translated from another language. Remember, too, we have MOS:COMMONALITY. Harfarhs (talk) 13:34, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you give me an example of when to use "they" and when not? I'm not entirely clear on this. Nehme1499 13:40, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

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"pointless link"
Hello Harfarhs. I was doing a little clean-up on Chuts and so noticed you'd removed the internal link to London, describing it as "pointless". Even though the article describes a community and culture only to be found there. Such links seem to be something you clean up with some zeal - and when they infest an article I've done so too - but please reconsider what is "pointless" in context before doing so. Best wishes, Plutonium27 (talk) 22:36, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for coming over. Have you read and considered MOS:OVERLINK in relation to the article in question? I suggest to you that different attitudes to the guideline exist. For example, Union Square (Manhattan) describes something unique to Manhattan, and (naturally) is a heavily patrolled article, but when in 2021 I removed the New York City links there per OVERLINK, my action attracted no attention. Excepting common terms from the OVERLINK guideline and wikilinking them, citing "context", seems to me difficult to justify, because (here considering Chuts) the more the subject of an article relates only to - for example - a given large city, the more obvious will be the meaning of the linked term. If asked I would say that the value of links lies in explanation to the reader, and that therefore they ought to be restricted as far as possible to items obscure and matters technical. Harfarhs (talk) 01:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have read and considered that MOS. And yes, you were wrong to remove the internal link on London from the Chuts article.Plutonium27 (talk) 01:31, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Unless, of course, I wasn't wrong to do so. As I say, thanks for coming over. Harfarhs (talk) 09:38, 24 March 2024 (UTC)