User talk:Hartcomm

Hi Graig:

I am not speeking for the ANA and MediaA groups as there are no authorities but as a members. First of all, as much as I can empatize with fellow members in their heated attempts to reason with you, I want to apologise for any upset or misunderstanding this may have caused.

Secondly...it is not our intention to spam or the promote anything ...Wikipedia has created an oportunity to "edit" and we did that and it appears that you are taking it upon yourself, what appears on this end like juvenile behaviour and remove all our postings ...do you have a personal objection to our groups? If so please let us know so that we can respond.

Other members already have posted information in response to all your objections i.e.: in terms of "reliable sources" etc. We have updates of our pages with "Historical Documents -PDF" that includes a cc. of an article in "Adbusters" and the date of an announcement in the International Herald Tribune.

In reply to your request that we list meeting info. we wrote that many members do not use the web and that although meetings are frequent they are not regular as we use telecommunications in a real time bassis and have meetings whenever we need to. The Clock can also a form of media addiction. Having comlied with all of these when we re-enter our data you write that we are spamming.....did you review this material? What is your reply? If Wikidedia does not want people to edit the pages they should let people know in advance. Instead of presenting themesleves as open to public editing and then having censorship and threats to ban any one who attempts to publish.

I think that there is enough room in cyberspace for a few lines on incumbent 12 step meetings ...you list meetings that are non 12 step oriented ...what objection can you have to groups that are 12 step oriented but are to small to have the main stream media "reliable sources" report on them or that do not have "regular meeting lists".

12 Step programs are not a "Who's Who" of the orthodoxy...our groups are in the main based on the oral tradition and this does not mean that we are in your words a "hoax" or a "fraud".

I think that if you want to practice compassion and do the Buddha thing and like MFT12X12 suggested and "get off the centre of the universe" and see your actions objectively you will have to agree there is probably some real egoism here that is blocking the commonweal...but it is not my business to take your "moral invnetory" here. I am speaking as an ehticist here and in terms of ethical behaviour, I think it is important to keep an open mind and realize that not all 12 Step organizations will fit, or need to fit into your world view to be legitimate and that it is not your mandate to be the censor, in a page that is open to the public to edit ...it is like a lamp post that everyone uses to pin up posters ...is it your job to pull them off? If Wikipedia is a private property and you are the proprietor and you do not wish to have incumbent groups posted that is one thing...then this fact needs to be displayed so as not to mislead the public users.

On the other hand if the page is not open for the public to edit ...a notice of this fact should be placed on it i.e.: this is a private space and we monitor what appears here.

In my opinion if we are talking reasonably about communications protocol, then this is what would be appropriate.

There is 98% junk on the internet and I think that the information that we provide is worthy of a a few bytes of space, in a commons space like Wikipedia is offering here and there must be many other more notable items on the web, that need the efforts of a censor.

If you are sincere about "clean up" and "legitimacy" of our 12 step programs we invite you to become a member and find our for yourself if our "meetings" and our program is for real. If not then we beseach you to stop censoring us, smearing us with these negative lables and to have compassion and mutual respect in your affairs towards our organization and it's members.

Thank You for your openness

Hartcomm 15:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Hartcomm, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Help How to write a great article Manual of Style

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Please stop adding inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, additions of links to Wikipedia will not alter search engine rankings. If you continue spamming, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. -- Craigtalbert 02:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)